Suggestion: 4-game (Go, Shogi, Chinese Chess and International Chess) Combined Tournament
David Goh
news:f880dacf.03071...@posting.google.com...
> The "Shogi club 24" server is free outside Japan:
> http://www.shogidojo.com/eng/engindex.htm
>
> Shogi is also on the Yahoo server. Sorry, I don't have a URL for that.
The URL for Yahoo games is:
http://games.yahoo.com/
They ONLY have Go and International Chess (under "Board Games"), but they
don't have Chinese Chess and Japanese Chess (Shogi).
How do you send suggestions to them to include these 2 games there ?
Or are there any Yahoo people here reading this ?
If they have all these 4 games (Go, Shogi, Chinese Chess and International
Chess),
then next time you can even hold "4-game" combined tournaments whereby each
player has to play all 4 games with each opponent. That would be interesting !
Because these 4 are the most complicated and popular board games whereby
computer programs are still behind the strongest human players (except for
International Chess). Other intellectual games are either already "solved"
(like
Connect4 and Gomoku) or already dominated by computer programs
(like Othello/Reversi). I'm not quite sure of Renju (the tournament version of
Gomoku) but it's possible to solve this like Gomoku too. It's played like
Gomoku, the official board size used is 15x15 but it adds 3 restrictions to the
way the 1st player (Black) can win. The 1st play is always at the centre.
Maybe Microsoft's internet gaming zone has all 4 ?
I haven't been to Microsoft's and Yahoo's game sites for a long time.
Nowadays I only play Go on IGS when I'm free.
David
David J Bush
> "David J Bush" <tw...@cstone.net> wrote in message
> news:f880dacf.03071...@posting.google.com...
> > The "Shogi club 24" server is free outside Japan:
> > http://www.shogidojo.com/eng/engindex.htm
> >
> > Shogi is also on the Yahoo server. Sorry, I don't have a URL for that.
>
> The URL for Yahoo games is:
> http://games.yahoo.com/
>
> They ONLY have Go and International Chess (under "Board Games"), but they
> don't have Chinese Chess and Japanese Chess (Shogi).
Actually, Yahoo USA does have a shogi page, which you need to be registered
to access:
http://games.yahoo.com/games/login2?page=shg
For some strange reason, they provide no link to shogi from the main page.
As a result, hardly anyone goes there.
> How do you send suggestions to them to include these 2 games there ?
> Or are there any Yahoo people here reading this ?
Yahoo has a link for "comments" at the bottom of most of their pages.
> If they have all these 4 games (Go, Shogi, Chinese Chess and International
> Chess),
> then next time you can even hold "4-game" combined tournaments whereby each
> player has to play all 4 games with each opponent. That would be interesting !
Interesting to whom? Throw some money at it, that would make it interesting
to many.
> Because these 4 are the most complicated and popular board games whereby
> computer programs are still behind the strongest human players (except for
> International Chess). Other intellectual games are either already "solved"
> (like
> Connect4 and Gomoku) or already dominated by computer programs
> (like Othello/Reversi). I'm not quite sure of Renju ...
Other games are solved or dominated? How many abstract games do you know
about? Are unpopular games not worth consideration? Why not? So many
great abstracts out there: Amazons, Batalo, Dvonn, Focus, Gipf, Hex,
Lines of Action, Octi, Philosopher's Football, Ploy, Torres, Trax, Twixt,
Universe, and of course the immortal classic "Devil Bunny Hates the
Earth" http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid=1817
Regarding Renju, István Virág, who has written computer programs to
solve "Free Renju" (Renju without the opening protocol, but with
the usual prohibitions on certain moves by Black during the game),
told me he expects Renju will be solved in a few more years.
David
David Goh
I'm talking about holding human vs. human competitions. So if the game is
"unpopular", then there'll be very few potential participants, right ?
David
james
> about? Are unpopular games not worth consideration? Why not? So many
> great abstracts out there: Amazons, Batalo, Dvonn, Focus, Gipf, Hex,
> Lines of Action, Octi, Philosopher's Football, Ploy, Torres, Trax, Twixt,
> Universe, and of course the immortal classic "Devil Bunny Hates the
> Earth" http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid=1817
>
I think there is a clear advantage of a game if the game has a large human
player base and human knowledge of game playing related to it. Games such
as Octi do not worth programming because they are about the same as other
existing games played by the human, and not enough human intelligence
associated with it. AI means mimicing human intelligence.
It is extremely easy to build a computer game that computer always beats
human. So such efforts are not interesting (any more).
james
Sawaki, Takayuki
＃フィラデルフィアで羽生さんに会い、えらく感激したみたい。
David Goh wrote:
> If they have all these 4 games (Go, Shogi, Chinese Chess and International
> Chess),
> then next time you can even hold "4-game" combined tournaments whereby each
> player has to play all 4 games with each opponent. That would be interesting !
>
> Because these 4 are the most complicated and popular board games whereby
> computer programs are still behind the strongest human players (except for
> International Chess). Other intellectual games are either already "solved"
> (like
> Connect4 and Gomoku) or already dominated by computer programs
> (like Othello/Reversi). I'm not quite sure of Renju (the tournament version of
> Gomoku) but it's possible to solve this like Gomoku too. It's played like
> Gomoku, the official board size used is 15x15 but it adds 3 restrictions to the
> way the 1st player (Black) can win. The 1st play is always at the centre.
コンピュータでやるかどうかはどうでもいいんですが、過去にこういったボードゲームの
トライアスロン的競技大会って、開かれたことがあるんでしょうか？例えば、将棋、囲碁、
チェスのそれぞれの勝敗に対して得点を付けて優勝者を争うみたいな感じです。
＃名付けるなら、ボードゲームNo.1を決めるための大会で"B-1"かな？
～～ ◯ ～～～～～～～ ‥ ・ ～～～～～～～～～～～～～
＼＼ ・ ： 佐脇貴幸
＼☆ ／＼／＼ ．： ・ fi-s...@yahoo.co.jp
／ ／ ＼ ‥・
※※ ／ ＼ ※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※
￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣
David Goh
news:3F122405...@yahoo.co.jp...
> ＃フィラデルフィアで羽生さんに会い、えらく感激したみたい。
>
> コンピュータでやるかどうかはどうでもいいんですが、過去にこういったボードゲー
ムの
> トライアスロン的競技大会って、開かれたことがあるんでしょうか？例えば、将棋、囲
碁、
> チェスのそれぞれの勝敗に対して得点を付けて優勝者を争うみたいな感じです。
>
> ＃名付けるなら、ボードゲームNo.1を決めるための大会で"B-1"かな？
Sorry, I don't understand Japanese. What's the meaning of the above statements
in English ? (I only understand English and Chinese by the way).
I couldn't find a newsgroup for "shogi" except this "fj.rec.games.shogi" so I
posted
here, besides posting to rec.games.chess.misc, rec.games.chinese-chess, and
rec.games.go
Actually I was suggesting that maybe Yahoo or some other game portals
offer ALL these 4 games (Go, Shogi, Chinese Chess and International Chess).
Now the Yahoo game site ( http://games.yahoo.com/ ) only has Go and
International Chess (under "Board Games"), but they don't have Chinese Chess
and Japanese Chess (Shogi).
Someone pointed out to me that actually Yahoo has a Shogi page below:
http://games.yahoo.com/games/login2?page=shg
But I think it was only done halfway, that's why it doesn't appear at the main
page.
David
David Goh
email program's settings. Please read the earlier posting by Sawaki, Takayuki
to
see the correct version. Thanks.
David
David Goh
because of my ISP's settings. I think these are Japanese forums, so my ISP
omits them.
I'm just curious what Sawaki, Takayuki was saying. I only understand
English and Chinese (Mandarin) by the way.
David
Takahashi
I think that probably the content which Sawaki Takayuki described is content
as following
I am too unpleasant to accept in strange English
I am good, but a competition size of triathlon of such a board game meets
how at the past whether you do it with a computer, and may there be an
opened thing?
For example, it is the feeling that it takes out score for shogi, a game of
go, each victory or defeat of chess, and seem to compete for a champion.
Sawaki, Takayuki
> Sorry, I don't understand Japanese. What's the meaning of the above statements
> in English ? (I only understand English and Chinese by the way).
I said in Japanese:
I'm sorry I am not interesting in online games. By the way, have
combined contests of board games, for example, of shogi+go+chess just
like triathlon contests ever been held anywhere, not on WWW?
kei.shindou
ゲームの
> トライアスロン的競技大会って、開かれたことがあるんでしょうか？例えば、将
Sawaki Takayuki
(2003/07/14 12:31), Sawaki, Takayuki wrote:
> David Goh wrote:
>> If they have all these 4 games (Go, Shogi, Chinese Chess and International
>> Chess),
>> then next time you can even hold "4-game" combined tournaments whereby each
>> player has to play all 4 games with each opponent. That would be interesting !
> トライアスロン的競技大会って、開かれたことがあるんでしょうか？例えば、将棋、囲碁、
> チェスのそれぞれの勝敗に対して得点を付けて優勝者を争うみたいな感じです。
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20120917-00000302-sph-soci
には、羽生２冠とチェス王者による、将棋+チェスの並行勝負が行われた、という記事が
ありました。「頭脳スポーツバイアスロン」といった趣ですが、やっぱり面白い試みです
ねえ。今後も、是非いろいろなボードゲームの異種格闘技戦みたいなものが見てみたいな。
--
～～ ◯ ～～～～～～～ ‥ ・ ～～～～～～～～～～～～～
＼＼ ・ ： 佐脇貴幸
＼☆ ／＼／＼ ．： ・ tx_s...@yahoo.co.jp
／ ／ ＼ ‥・
※※ ／ ＼ ※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※
￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣
Sawaki Takayuki
>今後も、是非いろいろなボードゲームの異種格闘技戦みたいなものが見てみたいな。
まさに異種格闘技戦といった趣の動画が、ニコニコ動画に出てました。
http://videotopics.yahoo.co.jp/videolist/official/hobby_cooking_life/pf7f2ef08ae83168a9391df589fc89da8
見ててなんだか頭がくらくらする感じ。おもしろいと言えばおもしろいのです
が、定石ができていくんだかどうだか？
--
～～ ◯ ～～～～ § ～～～～～～～～～～～～～～～～～～～
＼＼ ・ ・ 佐脇貴幸
＼☆ ／＼／＼ tx_s...@yahoo.co.jp
／ ／ ＼ ・ ・
※※ ／ ＼ ※※※※※※※※※※※※※
￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣