Japanese "racism" wasRe: Is a family holiday possible in Japan ?
Palladin
In article <40c18570.01082...@posting.google.com>, Jo Boxer says...
>> finge...@hotmail.com (Long John Smith) wrote in message news:
>> <800c906d.01082...@posting.google.com>...
>> Don't bother with Japan. You are wasting your money. Japanese people
>> are very racist towards non-Japanese.
>Not really. I've been here for nine months and have experienced NO
>racism. In fact, I've received more kindness in my first month than I
>got in 12 years in London! I eat exclusively in Japanese restaurants.
>No problem. I use Japanese web cafes. No problem. I've asked for
>directions from the Tokyo Metro. Police. No problem. Transportation
>staff. No problem.
>There are 1.6 million foreigners registered in Japan, approx 1 percent
>of the population. Seems to be increasing year on year.
Jo,
Don't feed the trolls. Finger is some pin-head frosh w/ an axe to grind.
Likely ethnic Korean, or possibly Chinese (SG,TW). Why is it that
although the Occupation of the Phillipines, Indonesia and Taiwan
was just as brutal, but they don't produce the same lunatic Japan-
bashers almost 60 years later.....?
Like Japan very much, like London very much. All societies
have some racism. Living in Japan was the first time I was a
visible minority. Racism=preconceptions, esp. negative ones.
I found that 40% of Japanese thought me superior, 40% looked
down on me because I am a gaijin. 20% were able to view me
as a person. Guess who I enjoyed most, dated and went drinking
with? Did I always mind being a novelty? Like when women
who were complete strangers felt complete license to hit on me?
NOT in the least. :-)
The word gaijin does carry baggage. It is not racist, though it
does carry the notion of preconceptions, no doubt. And it _can_
be racist in context, but it is not ipso facto racist.
Whole 'nuther kettle of fish if you are Asian or black.
Will post later about your comments on Japanese women putting
on a front- not being genuine. I disagee. The key is
situation.
May even pull rank on you... :-) No pissing contest, just many
years in Japan, several years studying things Japanese in an
academic setting.
Palladin
Michael Cash
muttered:
>
>May even pull rank on you... :-) No pissing contest, just many
>years in Japan, several years studying things Japanese in an
>academic setting.
>
"Japan/Japanese As A Contest"....one of the most threadbare and
tiresome contexts for interaction in all of gaijindom. Give it a rest,
would ya?
And also refrain from crossposting soc.culture.japan into
fj.fife.in-japan, please.
--
Michael Cash
"Trucking in America is a largely overrated profession primary
staffed by largely underrated people."
Prof. Briscoe Darling
Mount Pilot College
marc
-Marc
"Palladin" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:XGYh7.15049$2u.1...@www.newsranger.com...
> NGs trimmed and changed.
Palladin
rearranged electrons and sputtered;
>"Japan/Japanese As A Contest"....one of the most threadbare and
>tiresome contexts for interaction in all of gaijindom. Give it a rest,
>would ya?
>And also refrain from crossposting soc.culture.japan into
>fj.fife.in-japan, please.
Well, first of all it was cross-posted to fj._l_ife.in-japan and
soc._couples_.intercultural, and SCJ.
I'll refrain from cross-posting to any newsgroup if it is OT,
not because you decide I shouldn't.
"Give it a rest"? No, not just becauseit doesn't interest
you or if you whine. I'll give it a rest when there is no
one responding to it. Get a grip.
Sheesh. And hello to you, too.
By the way, your pit-bull imitation is lame. I'll bet you're
really a Maltese (gratuitous ad hominen).
Palladin
Michael Cash
muttered:
>In article <mkrgot0kr6hq88rlu...@4ax.com>, Michael Cash
>rearranged electrons and sputtered;
>>"Japan/Japanese As A Contest"....one of the most threadbare and
>>tiresome contexts for interaction in all of gaijindom. Give it a rest,
>>would ya?
>>And also refrain from crossposting soc.culture.japan into
>>fj.fife.in-japan, please.
>>Michael Cash
>
>Well, first of all it was cross-posted to fj._l_ife.in-japan and
>soc._couples_.intercultural, and SCJ.
I noticed that. You likely noticed that I only trimmed scj from my
reply. How you failed to infer that it isn't the crossposting that
caused concern but rather the inclusion of scj and fjlij is beyond me.
Especially considering that I rather clearly and specifically
mentioned it. I don't know the soc.couples.intercultural folks. I *do*
know what a puddle of dog pus scj is, though.
>
>I'll refrain from cross-posting to any newsgroup if it is OT,
>not because you decide I shouldn't.
And after I went to all the trouble of saying "please", too. Damn. If
I had known you were going to take it as an order I would have just
phrased it as one to begin with instead of making it a polite request.
>
>"Give it a rest"? No, not just becauseit doesn't interest
>you or if you whine. I'll give it a rest when there is no
>one responding to it. Get a grip.
Go ahead and pull rank and impress us all with your Japan credentials.
I'm sure we can't wait. Tell us how many months/years you lived here.
Tell us what you studied and where. Tell us all about all the millions
of kanji you know. Tell us about studying some esoteric religion on a
distant mountaintop where no white man had previously set foot and the
resultant enlightenment. Tell us all about how your Japan experience
is so much more relevant and valid than someone else's. Give us the
benefit of your wisdom. There are those of us struggling along without
the benefit of a master's feet at which to kneel and absorb
second-hand wisdom. Lay it on us, Guru.
>
>Sheesh. And hello to you, too.
>
>By the way, your pit-bull imitation is lame. I'll bet you're
>really a Maltese (gratuitous ad hominen).
>
>Palladin
>
That was my toy poodle imitation. I wasn't aware that names like
"Michael" and "Cash" were common on Malta, but I am always interested
in learning about some portion of my heritage which doesn't involve a
gallows. Of what derivation is the name "Palladin", by the way?
Brett Robson
Palladin wrote:
>
> May even pull rank on you... :-) No pissing contest, just many
> years in Japan, several years studying things Japanese in an
> academic setting.
That will impress everyone in fjlj.
I, and I know many others here, have a strong desire to study tea
ceremony, calligraphy, busines card equitte and martail arts but most of
us are too busy leading lives and trying survive that we can't studying
Japanese culture.
--
Brett Robson
Aichi Prefecture, Japan
real address: brettr at newsguy dot com
"If man is 5, and the devil is 6, that makes me 7.
This heartbeat is going to heaven."
Palladin
>That will impress everyone in fjlj.
>I, and I know many others here, have a strong desire to study tea
>ceremony, calligraphy, busines card equitte and martail arts but most of
>us are too busy leading lives and trying survive that we can't studying
>Japanese culture.
>Aichi Prefecture, Japan
Go boy, fetch. Blah, blah, blah. Never mentioned J traditions or
fine arts. Merely baited Jo Boxer in a friendly fashion. What is it
with you and Cashclown? Were you both picked on as small
children and never overcame the trauma? That often results in
contentious, disagreeable, self-important, argumentative misfits.
Over-represented in Japan's foreigners. Self-selection.
Jo Boxer has been in Japan a short time, and my take on J and my
experience in J are quite different from his. Never claimed to have
any definitive information. Sheesh.
The term gaijin does not, necessarily represent racism in Japan,
but it can.
He thinks J women on the make are dishonest, putting up a false
front. I disagree. Ethics, honestsy and behaviour.... Well, well.
If you view/judge through the standards of your own culture, it
doesn't lead to understanding. A fish doesn't notice the water,
and such.
Yes, I can handle a "busines card" exchange.
Yes, I know something of the "equitte".
No, I have never taken "martail arts".
I have no idea what "that we can't studying" means.
I take it that in "trying to survive", you're an 3ngluish teacher
of tipping and syntax, sou jai nai ka?
Kisses,
Palladin
makoto ni arigatou gozaimasuUUUUUU
Michael Cash
muttered:
>
>Go boy, fetch. Blah, blah, blah. Never mentioned J traditions or
>fine arts. Merely baited Jo Boxer in a friendly fashion. What is it
>with you and Cashclown? Were you both picked on as small
>children and never overcame the trauma? That often results in
>contentious, disagreeable, self-important, argumentative misfits.
>Over-represented in Japan's foreigners. Self-selection.
Yeah....the type with the "pull rank on you" sort of mentality. In
your last three sentences above you described perfectly the sort of
person I envisioned when I encountered the "pull rank" line in your
earlier post.
>
>Jo Boxer has been in Japan a short time, and my take on J and my
>experience in J are quite different from his. Never claimed to have
>any definitive information. Sheesh.
No, just the ability to pull rank on him.
>
>The term gaijin does not, necessarily represent racism in Japan,
>but it can.
Quite right. Japanese racism exists quite independent of the need for
any pejorative vocabulary.
>
>He thinks J women on the make are dishonest, putting up a false
>front. I disagree. Ethics, honestsy and behaviour.... Well, well.
>If you view/judge through the standards of your own culture, it
>doesn't lead to understanding. A fish doesn't notice the water,
>and such.
It would seem to me that by definition any woman "on the make" is
putting up a false front of some type and to some degree, regardless
of the culture.
>
>I take it that in "trying to survive", you're an 3ngluish teacher
>of tipping and syntax, sou jai nai ka?
>
There *are* other means of trying to survive, can't imagine what they
might be, though.
Kevin Gowen
> Best comments on the "gaijin" thread I've seen in a long time.
You must not have read many.
Kevin Gowen
Palladin wrote:
I do not like you.
Brett Robson
Palladin wrote:
>
> In article <3B88A0A1...@smap.com>, Brett Robson says...
> >That will impress everyone in fjlj.
> >I, and I know many others here, have a strong desire to study tea
> >ceremony, calligraphy, busines card equitte and martail arts but most of
> >us are too busy leading lives and trying survive that we can't studying
> >Japanese culture.
> >Brett Robson
> >Aichi Prefecture, Japan
>
> Go boy, fetch. Blah, blah, blah.
Are you some pervert or something? I only play "ii wanwan, warui wanwan"
with girls. That's human girls not girl dogs.
[ No I don't know where Ed is, did he run of with a cute poodle? ]
> Never mentioned J traditions or
> fine arts. Merely baited Jo Boxer in a friendly fashion. What is it
> with you and Cashclown?
It's that "get some time up" line, bit like a red flag.
> Were you both picked on as small
> children and never overcame the trauma?
Michael was never small, and no has ever been dumb enough to pick on
him.
> That often results in
> contentious, disagreeable, self-important, argumentative misfits.
> Over-represented in Japan's foreigners. Self-selection.
Too busy working and having fun
> I have no idea what "that we can't studying" means.
It's called a typo.
> I take it that in "trying to survive", you're an 3ngluish teacher
> of tipping and syntax, sou jai nai ka?
Nice try but fail.
Oh I'm so sorry I can't understand 'sou jai nai'. There aren't any
soujais?
--
Brett Robson
Aichi Prefecture, Japan
real address: brettr at newsguy dot com
mi...@redspark.org
> I found that 40% of Japanese thought me superior, 40% looked
> down on me because I am a gaijin. 20% were able to view me
> as a person. Guess who I enjoyed most, dated and went drinking
> with?
Whoever paid?
:-)
Mike
Palladin
Like that! A) unrelated B) errr, unrelated :-) C) you betcha
Palladin
Palladin
>I do not like you.
one brilliant, pithy comment? Whadda dweeb. Learn to trim, son.
As if I, or anyone else gives a rat's orifice what you don't like?
NOT!
Why do education levels continue to be so low in FL.....
Hmmmm, Reconstruction never took?
So you "dated" hostesses without paying and, you're proud
of it? *blink* Never had to resort to "hostesses" meself.
Talk about dying of thirst while drowning.
Hell, in the neighborhood izakayas and tachinomiyas,
the proprietresses usta bring out and parade the family's
onee-san for the foreign devil, five and ten years my junior,
and not too shabby to boot. What on earth were they
thinking?!?! Can't say I minded much..., but jeez.
Palladin
Jason Cormier
> In article <3B898566...@hotmail.com>, Kevin Gowen says...
> >I do not like you.
> You include 40 lines of the previous post to come up with this
> one brilliant, pithy comment? Whadda dweeb.
More like "Whadda a simple way of gettng your goat.".
> Learn to trim, son.
> As if I, or anyone else gives a rat's orifice what you don't like?
> NOT!
The irony.
Jason Cormier
Mike, did I miss a new play toy on the group during my absense? Ah
well...maybe he'll stick around long enough to get some votes.
Michael Cash
muttered:
This guy's gonna be so much more fun than Flea Market John was. (What
ever happened to him, I wonder?)
M.Yoshida
I don't like you, either.
Masayuki
m.yoshida
Hahaha...great! You're cool as you were!
Masayuki
storys
"m.yoshida" <m.yo...@NOSPAMsheffield.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3B94E411...@NOSPAMsheffield.ac.uk...
> > > down on me because I am a gaijin. 20% were able to view me
> > > as a person. Guess who I enjoyed most, dated and went drinking
> > > with?
> >
> > Whoever paid?
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Mike
>
> Hahaha...great! You're cool as you were!
>
I'm not so sure that there is that much difference. At present I have a
young lady living with my wife & I. She is from Taiwan. We were out
yesterday and in this particular store. While we were there we ran into
another couple who also had an exchange student, also female but Japanese.
What happened? Well the two young ladies got together & started chatting
away a mile an hour ( in English ). Why is this significant? Every exchange
student I've ever had or seen, male or female has reacted exactly the same
way to similar situations. This along with other things ( including my
Japanese Martial Arts experiences involving Japanese nationals ) has brought
me to the conclusion that yes some Japanese are racist, just like some
Americans & some Canadians. Some on the other hand are not. You have to take
people as individuals. Keep in mind that if you act the idiot & try to
impress them with the correctness of YOUR culture and the inherent wrongness
of theirs then naturally you will have a rough time. This isn't racism but
it is human nature. Cultures vary. If you are living in a different one then
YOU are the one who has to adapt in some way or leave.
Rant mode off.
.........Tom.............