WWDD?
CL
Rather an odd legal strategy. I doubt it will work, but stranger things
have happened. The one thing about Chris Savoie that I respect is his
refusing to meet or speak with Debit and specifically asked him to stay
away from the case.
--
CL
band beyond description
John W.
> (What Would Debit Do?)
>
> Rather an odd legal strategy. I doubt it will work, but stranger things
> have happened. The one thing about Chris Savoie that I respect is his
> refusing to meet or speak with Debit and specifically asked him to stay
> away from the case.
>
>
While I don't think the man deserves to be separated from his kids by
force (there's been nothing to suggest he abused them or did anything
illegal), I still think he's pretty much a dick. It would be very nice
if he acknowledged this and admitted that he treated his wife
unfairly. That would probably not help his chances to see his kids
again, but it wouldn't hurt, either.
I find this approach interesting, though, because there are a lot of
dads who aren't total dicks whose wives have absconded to Japan with
the kids, and it would be nice if there was some recourse. It won't
work, because that's a god-awful sum of money, and if being declared a
fugitive from US justice didn't get her returned I doubt the money
trick will, either.
John W.
CL
Ah, yes. I have heard this blog described as "where Usenet went after
it got its zits under control and could buy liquor with its own legal
ID." The amount of absolute crap blogged and tweeted makes me yearn
mightily for the days of hand set lead type and hand sewn binding.
--
CL
CL
I was actually once asked by some US government people, who acted as
though they genuinely wanted to hear my reply, what I thought of this.
I think I upset more than a few State Department types by suggesting
that the US judge in each case first adjudicated by a local court should
also find any Japanese judge, police officer, and the Justice Minister
in contempt of court, charge them with aiding and abetting kidnapping,
and ask a Federal court to do the same. This would be followed by
Interpol Yellow and Red Notices (travel bans to all Interpol member
countries, interception, detention, and arrest). Continue to apply
until Japan gets the message. The Staties were particularly concerned
lest we also take that attitude with Sharia judges and the political
officers of some of our more important "allies" in the Middle East (ones
who shoot back).
Basically, this is a problem of foreign courts and US courts not
respecting each other. Parents are secondary. The problem is that the
Japanese spouse is agreeing to a legal venue, not getting the outcome
s/he wants, and is running off to Japan to try again. In the US this is
called "shopping for venue" and is illegal, yet we do it every time we
allow a foreign court to overturn a US judge's decision.
--
CL
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
> > have happened. ?The one thing about Chris Savoie that I respect is his
> > refusing to meet or speak with Debit and specifically asked him to stay
> > away from the case.
> >
> > http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110510/NEWS03/305100033/Dad-whose...
> >
> While I don't think the man deserves to be separated from his kids by
> force (there's been nothing to suggest he abused them or did anything
> illegal), I still think he's pretty much a dick. It would be very nice
> if he acknowledged this and admitted that he treated his wife
> unfairly. That would probably not help his chances to see his kids
> again, but it wouldn't hurt, either.
> I find this approach interesting, though, because there are a lot of
> dads who aren't total dicks whose wives have absconded to Japan with
> the kids, and it would be nice if there was some recourse. It won't
> work, because that's a god-awful sum of money, and if being declared a
> fugitive from US justice didn't get her returned I doubt the money
> trick will, either.
I know a couple who split; wife went back to Japan with the kids. He
gets them in the summer. Seems like these people could work out something
like that...
Mike
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
I miss the days where you had to have either a job or an education to get
on the net... oh, well, then I wouldn't have Amazon...
Mike
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
> Basically, this is a problem of foreign courts and US courts not
> respecting each other. Parents are secondary. The problem is that the
> Japanese spouse is agreeing to a legal venue, not getting the outcome
> s/he wants, and is running off to Japan to try again. In the US this is
> called "shopping for venue" and is illegal, yet we do it every time we
> allow a foreign court to overturn a US judge's decision.
Well, there's that whole "US Constitution only works in the US" thing....
Mike
CL
How many of bin Laden's supporters believe that? It is a matter of
degree only.
--
CL
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
Or Debito's?
> It is a matter of degree only.
Naw; it's a matter of what offers you the best deal.
Mike
CL
> John W.<worth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 13, 9:40?am, CL<flot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> (What Would Debit Do?)
>
> gets them in the summer. Seems like these people could work out something
> like that...
OMG! A divorced couple acting like grownups. But, IMNSHO, it still
victimizes the kids and makes for a bleak next generation's future. The
downside of that strategy is that it is not as good for the kids as
having them educated in US schools. Like it or not, over 70% of all
business (on a cash flow basis including all major currencies) done
throughout the world is conducted in English, and US legal standards are
the norm for contracts and business contract law. Spanish and Chinese
are #2 and #3 with Japanese back at #9. All of the business done
everywhere else in the world does not equal half of what is done in
English. The opportunities for Japan-educated kids is nowhere near that
of kids educated elsewhere. For me, exposing kids to the Monkey Show
(Mon-ka-sho) is the worst part of the whole run-back-to-Japan thing and
makes victims out of the future of the country and family.
--
CL
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
> On 05/14/2011 06:39 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
> > John W.<worth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On May 13, 9:40?am, CL<flot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> (What Would Debit Do?)
> >
> > I know a couple who split; wife went back to Japan with the kids. He
> > gets them in the summer. Seems like these people could work out something
> > like that...
> OMG! A divorced couple acting like grownups. But, IMNSHO, it still
Well, he wasn't acting like one leading up to the divorce...
> victimizes the kids and makes for a bleak next generation's future. The
> downside of that strategy is that it is not as good for the kids as
> having them educated in US schools. Like it or not, over 70% of all
> business (on a cash flow basis including all major currencies) done
> throughout the world is conducted in English, and US legal standards are
> the norm for contracts and business contract law. Spanish and Chinese
> are #2 and #3 with Japanese back at #9. All of the business done
> everywhere else in the world does not equal half of what is done in
> English. The opportunities for Japan-educated kids is nowhere near that
> of kids educated elsewhere. For me, exposing kids to the Monkey Show
> (Mon-ka-sho) is the worst part of the whole run-back-to-Japan thing and
> makes victims out of the future of the country and family.
Well, they speak passable English. But if they'd stayed in the US, they'd
have to learn Spanish, if they wanted to work at, say, the DMV :-)
Mike
CL
> CL<flo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 05/14/2011 06:39 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
>>> John W.<worth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On May 13, 9:40?am, CL<flot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> (What Would Debit Do?)
>
> have to learn Spanish, if they wanted to work at, say, the DMV :-)
I was speaking of living and working in the US, not a third world
backwater like California. This would be a good place for me to stop
before I get on one of my One-Country, One-Language-and-it-is-English rants.
--
CL
JimBreen
Not to mention that the Australian Constitution only works in
Australia,
etc. etc.
On the whole courts in different countries do respect each other.
One of the problems with custody cases is that Japan has
refused to sign up to the the main treaty covering custody, which
makes it almost impossible to have consistent handling of such
cases when one spouse is Japanese.
On the matter of courts respecting each other, there's a
guy currently being tried for murder in Alabama. The alleged
murder (of his wife) took place in Australia. He was charged
with murder here, but the prosecution decided the case wasn't
strong enough and withdrew that charge, instead getting a
conviction for the lesser crime of manslaughter. When he was
deported back to the US after serving time, he was charged
(again) with murder and it's now going to trial. The judge has
ruled that what happened in an Australia court is not
relevant. It'll be interesting to see how they go getting
witnesses.
I find it interesting that the state of Alabama can say that its
murder laws apply to something that happened in Australia,
but then Australia has enacted laws against sex tourism
involving minors which apply to Australia citizens anywhere,
so who knows.
Jim
CL
Alabama has problems remembering that it lost it's war for independence
in 1865 and it is supposed to be part of a larger grouping that takes
precedence. But I can see where a publicity-hungry prosecutor (gasp! we
have them, too) can argue for a re-conviction on a couple of different
grounds:
1. That the wife was a resident of Alabama before her murder, therefore
the state has jurisdiction based upon residence.
2. That her death is a deprivation of civil rights under some state
statute.
3. That her death was premeditated in Alabama and only carried out in a
third location as a convenience.
Remember that most US states have no Statute of Limitations on murder
but probably do have one on manslaughter.
As I said, though, cases like this are mainly for the benefit of the
prosecutor's re-election bid and really have little to do with the victim.
--
CL
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
> On 05/14/2011 07:16 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
> > CL<flo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On 05/14/2011 06:39 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
> >>> John W.<worth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On May 13, 9:40?am, CL<flot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>> (What Would Debit Do?)
> >
> > Well, they speak passable English. But if they'd stayed in the US, they'd
> > have to learn Spanish, if they wanted to work at, say, the DMV :-)
> I was speaking of living and working in the US, not a third world
> backwater like California.
California's great, once you get out of LA and the Central Valley.
Expensive. East Coast (east of NYC) is nice, too.
> This would be a good place for me to stop
> before I get on one of my One-Country, One-Language-and-it-is-English rants.
Doesn't bother me a bit; ensures a constant supply of manual labor.
Mike
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
> On May 14, 7:44?am, mtfes...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
> > CL <flot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Basically, this is a problem of foreign courts and US courts not
> > > Japanese spouse is agreeing to a legal venue, not getting the outcome
> > > called "shopping for venue" and is illegal, yet we do it every time we
> > > allow a foreign court to overturn a US judge's decision.
> >
> > Well, there's that whole "US Constitution only works in the US" thing....
> Not to mention that the Australian Constitution only works in
> Australia,
> etc. etc.
> On the whole courts in different countries do respect each other.
> One of the problems with custody cases is that Japan has
> refused to sign up to the the main treaty covering custody, which
> makes it almost impossible to have consistent handling of such
> cases when one spouse is Japanese.
I have a friend who has the same problem with his Brazilian ex-.
Fortunately, nobody cares if you want to immigrate TO Brazil, so
that's where he is.
> On the matter of courts respecting each other, there's a
> guy currently being tried for murder in Alabama. The alleged
> murder (of his wife) took place in Australia. He was charged
> with murder here, but the prosecution decided the case wasn't
> strong enough and withdrew that charge, instead getting a
> conviction for the lesser crime of manslaughter. When he was
> deported back to the US after serving time, he was charged
> (again) with murder and it's now going to trial. The judge has
> ruled that what happened in an Australia court is not
> relevant. It'll be interesting to see how they go getting
> witnesses.
Was that the drowning case?
> I find it interesting that the state of Alabama can say that its
> murder laws apply to something that happened in Australia,
> but then Australia has enacted laws against sex tourism
> involving minors which apply to Australia citizens anywhere,
> so who knows.
Well, his wife would have been Alabaman, so...
Mike
> Jim
CL
> CL<flo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 05/14/2011 07:16 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
>>> CL<flo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 05/14/2011 06:39 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
>>>>> John W.<worth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On May 13, 9:40?am, CL<flot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> (What Would Debit Do?)
>>>
>>> Well, they speak passable English. But if they'd stayed in the US, they'd
>>> have to learn Spanish, if they wanted to work at, say, the DMV :-)
>
>> I was speaking of living and working in the US, not a third world
>> backwater like California.
>
> California's great, once you get out of LA and the Central Valley.
> Expensive. East Coast (east of NYC) is nice, too.
Ummm ... I used to live in L.A. It is a great place to leave.
>> This would be a good place for me to stop
>> before I get on one of my One-Country, One-Language-and-it-is-English rants.
>
> Doesn't bother me a bit; ensures a constant supply of manual labor.
Didn't you mean "Manuel Labor"?
--
CL
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
> On 05/14/2011 12:10 PM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
> > CL<flo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On 05/14/2011 07:16 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
> >>> CL<flo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 05/14/2011 06:39 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
> >>>>> John W.<worth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On May 13, 9:40?am, CL<flot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> (What Would Debit Do?)
> >> I was speaking of living and working in the US, not a third world
> >> backwater like California.
> > California's great, once you get out of LA and the Central Valley.
> > Expensive. East Coast (east of NYC) is nice, too.
> Ummm ... I used to live in L.A. It is a great place to leave.
I had a great place in Santa Monica through grad school; 2 BR, 2Ba, kitchen
dining room patio (with a view of ocean, if you leaned out)... $350/month.
Kept me in that stupid area a LOT longer than I should have been.
> >> This would be a good place for me to stop
> >> before I get on one of my One-Country, One-Language-and-it-is-English rants.
> >
> > Doesn't bother me a bit; ensures a constant supply of manual labor.
> Didn't you mean "Manuel Labor"?
Naw; believe me, there are a LOT more than Spanish speakers in the non-English
category here.
Mike
CL
> CL<flo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 05/14/2011 12:10 PM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
>>> CL<flo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 05/14/2011 07:16 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
>>>>> CL<flo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 05/14/2011 06:39 AM, mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
>>>>>>> John W.<worth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On May 13, 9:40?am, CL<flot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> (What Would Debit Do?)
>
>>>> I was speaking of living and working in the US, not a third world
>>>> backwater like California.
>
>>> California's great, once you get out of LA and the Central Valley.
>>> Expensive. East Coast (east of NYC) is nice, too.
>
>> Ummm ... I used to live in L.A. It is a great place to leave.
>
> I had a great place in Santa Monica through grad school; 2 BR, 2Ba, kitchen
> dining room patio (with a view of ocean, if you leaned out)... $350/month.
> Kept me in that stupid area a LOT longer than I should have been.
I was paying about that for a 3-bedroom condo in Azusa. Came with a
deck, two-car garage for my motorcycles and on-street parking for my
car. It was easy to get to work in Monterrey Park as I was just off the
60 and my office had it's own exit on the same highway. I left for a
job in Hiroshima but the California job had a better pension. Due to
budget issues, I don't think my fellow workers who remained there are
able to collect the good pension any more. So, I made the right decision.
>>>> This would be a good place for me to stop
>>>> before I get on one of my One-Country, One-Language-and-it-is-English rants.
>>>
>>> Doesn't bother me a bit; ensures a constant supply of manual labor.
>
>> Didn't you mean "Manuel Labor"?
>
> Naw; believe me, there are a LOT more than Spanish speakers in the non-English
> category here.
Too many US states are having this problem. I am a big fan of much
stricter immigration and improve railway, ship docks, and airports for
deportation.
--
CL
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
Yeah, but I'd deport 2 people who don't want to work for every 2 we get
who somehow find jobs, no matter how sh*tty.
Mike