Lord of The Rings II
L.R.C.
I went to see Lord of the Ring(s) (LoTR) yesterday. My girlfriend was
impressed enough to want to read the books. I was surprised to find that
the Japanese version is in nine parts. The four books in The Fellowship
of The Ring are published separately
Is the Japanese translation too long or is it a money making scam? The
hardback books are 2200 yen each, and even buying the 'bunko' books at
750 yen each makes a grand total of 6750 yen!
I have heard from an acquaintance in the publishing field that books
over a certain thickness don't sell well in Japan.
As for the film, it's one of the best interpretations of a book I've
ever seen. The SFX are well done without being intrusive and the cast
were well chosen. It's well worth the 1800 yen - I never thought I'd say
that about a film.
Although, not since Blair Witch Project has the ending caused so many
people in the cinema to say 'e? kore de owari?" - "Is that the end?"
If you have read the books you know iwhen it's going to end. Listening
to the chatter on the way out of the film it seems that many people in
Japan didn't .
Perhaps it's the nine books that put them off.
Mukade
Collin McCulley
"L.R.C." <muk...@ny.tokai.or.jp> wrote in message news:3C81AB83...@ny.tokai.or.jp...
> As for the film, it's one of the best interpretations of a book I've
> ever seen. The SFX are well done without being intrusive and the cast
> were well chosen. It's well worth the 1800 yen - I never thought I'd say
> that about a film.
I thought it was true to the spirit of the book(s)
in most respects, and of course, visually stunning,
but there were *many* changes and omissions -- not all
entirely unimportant ones, either. It's not very much
more true to the book than most other film-from-book films.
I won't spoil anything by doing a point by point,
but I could ramble on a few pages with it.
(I wouldn't doubt there's a few hundred web sites that
already do that).
That being said -- see it. Great film.
--Collin
Ryan Ginstrom
> hardback books are 2200 yen each, and even buying the 'bunko' books at
> 750 yen each makes a grand total of 6750 yen!
> I have heard from an acquaintance in the publishing field that books
> over a certain thickness don't sell well in Japan.
They're divided into lots of joukan and gekan and whatnot, but the copies I
saw had them in a three bound (hardcover) volumes. Anyway, she can find them
in the library if she doesn't want to fork out the cash.
I tried reading them several years ago, but found them too obtuse in
Japanese. But then, perhaps that was the fault of my Japanese at the time...
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Ken Nicolson
<ryangi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"L.R.C." <muk...@ny.tokai.or.jp> wrote in message
>news:3C81AB83...@ny.tokai.or.jp...
>> Is the Japanese translation too long or is it a money making scam? The
>> hardback books are 2200 yen each, and even buying the 'bunko' books at
>> 750 yen each makes a grand total of 6750 yen!
>> I have heard from an acquaintance in the publishing field that books
>> over a certain thickness don't sell well in Japan.
I've heard the original book was meant to be a nine-parter, not three.
>They're divided into lots of joukan and gekan and whatnot, but the copies I
>saw had them in a three bound (hardcover) volumes. Anyway, she can find them
>in the library if she doesn't want to fork out the cash.
>
>I tried reading them several years ago, but found them too obtuse in
>Japanese. But then, perhaps that was the fault of my Japanese at the time...
I read in Thursday's Yomiuri that the original translation was written
using old language/grammar for effect, but the film translation takes
a simpler line. Here's the story:
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/newse/20020228woa1.htm
Ken
E. Mills
know that the hobbits are not little people. Now how in the world can they
follow Tolkien and make Bilbo and Frodo look like humans?
Ed
Scott Reynolds
They did give them pointy ears.
--
_______________________________________________________________
Scott Reynolds s...@gol.com
Graham Bell
Ken Nicolson wrote:
>
>
> I've heard the original book was meant to be a nine-parter, not three.
>
>
Actually, I heard that Tolkien originally wanted it to be a single volume, not
split up at all, but gave in to publishers recommendations..
Don't know how true it is though..
Graham
E. Mills
"Scott Reynolds" <s...@gol.com> wrote in message
news:3C81E3B5...@gol.com...
> E. Mills wrote:
>
>
> > I'm glad to see that they are following Tolkien's story. But..... I also
> > know that the hobbits are not little people. Now how in the world can
they
> > follow Tolkien and make Bilbo and Frodo look like humans?
>
> They did give them pointy ears.
Vulcans have pointy ears. Hobbits are little people who tend towards a more
well-rounded appearance. Did Tolkien mention that hobbits have pointy ears?
Ed
Ken Nicolson
You heard right and I heard wrong! I should have checked Google before
posting!
http://greenbooks.theonering.net/turgon/noteontext.html
>Graham
Ken
Louise Bremner
> I read in Thursday's Yomiuri that the original translation was written
> using old language/grammar for effect, but the film translation takes
> a simpler line. Here's the story:
>
> http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/newse/20020228woa1.htm
Good grief. It's fascinating to read Toda-san's comments on her
translation, and how she wasn't permitted to do it her way....
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
Michael Cash
Bremner) cooed:
>Ken Nicolson <knic...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> I read in Thursday's Yomiuri that the original translation was written
>> using old language/grammar for effect, but the film translation takes
>> a simpler line. Here's the story:
>>
>> http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/newse/20020228woa1.htm
>
>Good grief. It's fascinating to read Toda-san's comments on her
>translation, and how she wasn't permitted to do it her way....
Curious, yet not surprising, that they hired Japan's leading movie
translator and then don't give her free rein to work in the way which
presumably earned her reputation in the industry.
Even more interesting is that a person with such a reputation and in
such high demand didn't cop an attitude and just tell them to kiss her
ass and go look for someone else if they didn't like the way she does
things.
--
Michael Cash
"He who wears orthopedic shoes always stands corrected."
Dr. Floyd Lawson
Mount Pilot College
Student Health Center
Michael Cash
cooed:
Hobbits are descendants of the Vulcans. Don't you read the Bible? It's
in there in the middle of all those begats somewhere.
Louise Bremner
> Curious, yet not surprising, that they hired Japan's leading movie
> translator and then don't give her free rein to work in the way which
> presumably earned her reputation in the industry.
Read the article. I started cringing at:
"I had never read the book and was not familiar with the material,"
admitted Toda, a freelancer who does 40 to 50 films a year. "Suddenly
the film arrived and I had to have it done in a week."
I gather this is standard practice, BTW. This could explain some of the
howlers I've seen in subtitles.
Graham Bell
"L.R.C." wrote:
> Although, not since Blair Witch Project has the ending caused so many
> people in the cinema to say 'e? kore de owari?" - "Is that the end?"
>
Funny thing, can't remember where it was, but a friend pointed out to me a
review in the mainstream media where the reviewer said something to the
effect of "The ending left a lot unfinished.."
Well, duh...have to wonder if the person actually understood what they were
reviewing..
Graham
L.R.C.
Louise Bremner wrote:
> Read the article. I started cringing at:
>
> "I had never read the book and was not familiar with the material,"
> admitted Toda, a freelancer who does 40 to 50 films a year. "Suddenly
> the film arrived and I had to have it done in a week."
>
> I gather this is standard practice, BTW. This could explain some of the
> howlers I've seen in subtitles.
>
Toda almost has a monopoly of movies in Japan.
According to my girlfriend's subtitling teacher, the film companies would
rather have someone they can depend upon, than risk the movie on a newbie.
Francis Ford Coppola always requested Toda Natsuko for his subtitling, but
Kubrick, who had the translations checked over in depth, refused her script.
Full Metal Jacket contained a lot of swearing, and Kubrick said that she
didn't represent it well.
Translating English swearing into Japanese is a difficult task.
Mukade
Rodney G. Webster
>
> Ken Nicolson <knic...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > I read in Thursday's Yomiuri that the original translation was written
> > using old language/grammar for effect, but the film translation takes
> > a simpler line. Here's the story:
> >
> > http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/newse/20020228woa1.htm
>
> Good grief. It's fascinating to read Toda-san's comments on her
> translation, and how she wasn't permitted to do it her way....
I read the article and it didn't seem like she wasn't permitted
to do it her way (at least not completely). In fact, the only
examples they give (of the translations for Gollum and Strider)
are ones where she got her way.
Either way, it certainly doesn't seem as bad as the stories I've
heard about the trouble she had when she was translating "Apocalypse
Now". From what I've heard the subtitles that Toda produced were
translated back into English so that Francis Ford Coppola could
check them.
Rodney.
Louise Bremner
> > Good grief. It's fascinating to read Toda-san's comments on her
> > translation, and how she wasn't permitted to do it her way....
>
> I read the article and it didn't seem like she wasn't permitted
> to do it her way (at least not completely). In fact, the only
> examples they give (of the translations for Gollum and Strider)
> are ones where she got her way.
True--I was extrapolating from other things I've heard.
> Either way, it certainly doesn't seem as bad as the stories I've
> heard about the trouble she had when she was translating "Apocalypse
> Now". From what I've heard the subtitles that Toda produced were
> translated back into English so that Francis Ford Coppola could
> check them.
Oh, yes. There are lots of stories....
Collin McCulley
"E. Mills" <burt_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:a5slv8$41v$1...@cobalt01.janis.or.jp...
> I'm glad to see that they are following Tolkien's story. But..... I also
> know that the hobbits are not little people. Now how in the world can they
> follow Tolkien and make Bilbo and Frodo look like humans?
>
Did you see Forest Gump, where they made one
of Gary Sinese's (sp?) legs disappear for half the
movie by filling back in all the background
that was behind it? Or Jurassic Park?
Heck, they don't even really need _human_
actors anymore. :-)
Short answer -- they are small in the movie.
Decently done -- there was only one time where
I felt the effect was a little off.
--Collin
Michael Cash
<cmcc...@earthlink.net> cooed:
>
>"E. Mills" <burt_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:a5slv8$41v$1...@cobalt01.janis.or.jp...
>> I'm glad to see that they are following Tolkien's story. But..... I also
>> know that the hobbits are not little people. Now how in the world can they
>> follow Tolkien and make Bilbo and Frodo look like humans?
>>
>
> Did you see Forest Gump, where they made one
>of Gary Sinese's (sp?) legs disappear for half the
>movie by filling back in all the background
>that was behind it? Or Jurassic Park?
>Heck, they don't even really need _human_
>actors anymore. :-)
I thought it was both legs...and thanks for telling me how they did
it. I've wondered for years about that.
> Short answer -- they are small in the movie.
>Decently done -- there was only one time where
>I felt the effect was a little off.
>
Remember "Under the Rainbow"?
Collin McCulley
"Michael Cash" <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote in message news:qug48uomnlfj27r32...@4ax.com...
> "Collin McCulley"
> >"E. Mills"
> >> I'm glad to see that they are following Tolkien's story. But..... I also
> >> know that the hobbits are not little people. Now how in the world can they
> >> follow Tolkien and make Bilbo and Frodo look like humans?
> >>
> >
> > Did you see Forest Gump, where they made one
> >of Gary Sinese's (sp?) legs disappear for half the
> >movie by filling back in all the background
> >that was behind it? Or Jurassic Park?
> >Heck, they don't even really need _human_
> >actors anymore. :-)
>
> I thought it was both legs...and thanks for telling me how they did
> it. I've wondered for years about that.
There was a "making of" (or maybe it was a
Learning Channel special?) that showed the process
in detail. But I think you are right -- it was
both legs.
> > Short answer -- they are small in the movie.
> >Decently done -- there was only one time where
> >I felt the effect was a little off.
> >
>
> Remember "Under the Rainbow"?
No. What was it?
--Collin
Ryan Ginstrom
> Even more interesting is that a person with such a reputation and in
> such high demand didn't cop an attitude and just tell them to kiss her
> ass and go look for someone else if they didn't like the way she does
> things.
Subtitling is a tough biz. I once heard her say that after paying her dues
for X years and reaching the fame she enjoys today, she still barely makes a
living...
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Louise Bremner
> Subtitling is a tough biz. I once heard her say that after paying her dues
> for X years and reaching the fame she enjoys today, she still barely makes
> a living...
That implies that subtitling has a very low piece rate, if she does 40
to 50 films a year.
(Note that the job is not just writing the subtitles--the subtitler does
not receive a script, so first has to transcribe the tape.)
E. Mills
"Collin McCulley" <cmcc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BNrg8.32919$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> There was a "making of" (or maybe it was a
> Learning Channel special?) that showed the process
> in detail. But I think you are right -- it was
> both legs.
That's one nice thing about DVDs. A lot of them come with a sub-channel that
has the director talking about how the movie was made. Castaway (the Tom
Hanks version of Robinson Crusoe) was really interesting. It seems that
about 80% of the movie was CG. They filmed on a real island, but everything
about the real island was wrong.
And thanks for explaining about Forrest Gump. I had always wondered about
how they made his legs disappear.
Ed
Ernest Schaal
One minor criticism of the film, the hobbits aren't always small. In
some scenes they make them look much smaller than the humans or the
elfs, but other times they don't bother (such as in the first scene
with the wizard and many of the fight scenes).
One other minor criticism is that actor who played the elf king spoke
exactly as he did when he was the super bad guy in Matrix.
Other than that, it was a pretty good picture, and seemed a lot
shorter than its three hours playing time.
Kevin R. Gowen, II
news:1f8hjuc.814ycts64neaN%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> I gather this is standard practice, BTW. This could explain some of the
> howlers I've seen in subtitles.
Ｍｙunderstanding is that it is SOP for the translator to get a copy of the
screen play as well. I have always thought that the howlers are the result
of the translator getting whooshed.
Tell us some of your howlers! One that immediately comes to mind for me is
in "The Boondock Saints" which is 処刑人 in Japanese. By the way, this movie
is awesome, which is to say it iｓ totally sweet. Anyway, at some point in
the movie, a guy tells a joke where the punchline is, "I think I'll have a
Coke", as in the soft drink. The subtitled translation was 「コカインくれ」.
- Kevin
Kevin R. Gowen, II
> know that the hobbits are not little people. Now how in the world can they
> follow Tolkien and make Bilbo and Frodo look like humans?
They looked small enough in the scenes where you saw them standing next to
humans. Gandalf in Bilbo's hobbit hole is a good example of this.
> Ed
- Kevin
Ryan Ginstrom
> Ryan Ginstrom <ryangi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Subtitling is a tough biz. I once heard her say that after paying her
dues
> > for X years and reaching the fame she enjoys today, she still barely
makes
> > a living...
>
> That implies that subtitling has a very low piece rate, if she does 40
> to 50 films a year.
Of course, she probably does very little of the actual subtitling herself --
probably works from a shitayaku most of the time. So many aspiring
subtitlers, you know. Probably has to pay them some sweat shop wages out of
her fee...
> (Note that the job is not just writing the subtitles--the subtitler does
> not receive a script, so first has to transcribe the tape.)
I was under the impression that they got the screen play at least some of
the time (which is why they can put up subtitles on often inaudible audio
bits).
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
E. Mills
"Kevin R. Gowen, II" <kgo...@mail.law.fsu.edu> wrote in message
news:a5uhij$a4tsc$1...@ID-105084.news.dfncis.de...
All I've seen of the movie is a trailer when I went to see Harry Potter so
perhaps my perspective is a bit narrow. But from what I saw, the hobbit
looked nothing like a hobbit. Now Danny DeVito would make a good hobbit.
Ed
Ryan Ginstrom
> Tell us some of your howlers!
Where to start? One that springs to mind is Contaminated Man, when the woman
goes "No wonder he went postal."
Subtitle? 彼が郵便局へ行った理由はわかったわ (I figured out why he went to
the post office)
BTW, no post office was ever featured in the movie...
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Kevin R. Gowen, II
news:a5uhr0$o0k$1...@news.medias.ne.jp...
>
> "Kevin R. Gowen, II" <kgo...@mail.law.fsu.edu> wrote in message
> news:a5uhdj$acqlg$1...@ID-105084.news.dfncis.de...
> > Tell us some of your howlers!
>
> Where to start? One that springs to mind is Contaminated Man, when the
woman
> goes "No wonder he went postal."
>
> Subtitle? 彼が郵便局へ行った理由はわかったわ (I figured out why he went to
> the post office)
BWAHAHA!!!
> BTW, no post office was ever featured in the movie...
P.S. You should really see The Boondock Saints.
> --
> Regards,
> Ryan Ginstrom
- Kevin
Dale Hicks
says...
http://tolkien.slimy.com/tfaq/Hobbits.html#Ears
The book says that they're far more like humans than dwarves or elves
(who can be mistaken for human). The only real differences are the
height and the furry feet.
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
Scott Reynolds
> Toda almost has a monopoly of movies in Japan.
>
> According to my girlfriend's subtitling teacher, the film companies would
> rather have someone they can depend upon, than risk the movie on a newbie.
This is understandable, I suppose.
> Francis Ford Coppola always requested Toda Natsuko for his subtitling, but
> Kubrick, who had the translations checked over in depth, refused her script.
> Full Metal Jacket contained a lot of swearing, and Kubrick said that she
> didn't represent it well.
>
> Translating English swearing into Japanese is a difficult task.
Perhaps, but how in heaven's name did Kubrick make a judgment on how
well Toda did the job?
--
_______________________________________________________________
Scott Reynolds s...@gol.com
Scott Reynolds
I have no idea. I read about 1/3 of the first LoTR book about 25 years
ago and then gave up. I have never been tempted to pick it up again.
Not my cup of tea.
E. Mills
> I have no idea. I read about 1/3 of the first LoTR book about 25 years
> ago and then gave up. I have never been tempted to pick it up again.
The first book of the trilogy is actually the first of four books. The stuff
is not my cup of tea, either, but I think I could sleep through the movie.
If I'm going to read sword and sorcery stuff, I'd rather break out one of my
Druss books.
Ed
Kevin R. Gowen, II
One of my old roommates was big on JRRT and fantasy stuff in general. A
really good AD&D gamemaster, but I digress. Anyway, re: LotR, he always
chided anyone who called it a trilogy; he said itwas a story in three parts.
I guess he thought that way because of how the book came to be published.
> Ed
- Kevin
Scott Reynolds
I want to see the movie. I'll probably take the whole family. It's just
that I have no desire to read Tolkien's original.
E. Mills
> I want to see the movie. I'll probably take the whole family. It's just
> that I have no desire to read Tolkien's original.
"In Dwimordene in Lorien
Seldom have walked the feet of Men,
Few mortal eyes have seen the light
That lies there ever, long and bright.
Galadriel! Galadriel!
Clear is the water of your well;..."
Have you read enough?
Ed
L.R.C.
Louise Bremner wrote:
> Ryan Ginstrom <ryangi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Subtitling is a tough biz. I once heard her say that after paying her dues
> > for X years and reaching the fame she enjoys today, she still barely makes
> > a living...
>
> That implies that subtitling has a very low piece rate, if she does 40
> to 50 films a year.
>
> (Note that the job is not just writing the subtitles--the subtitler does
> not receive a script, so first has to transcribe the tape.)
>
I'm doing mainly subtitle work at the moment.
Even if you have a script, you can't rely on it. They are usually pre
production- that's before the director and producer ruin the original dialogue.
From my experience, Japanese subtitles have stricter limits than English, making
it even more difficult to create a decent translation. The Japanese limits are
two lines of fourteen characters, not too many Kanji, and none of those naughty
characters that Monbusho doesn't recognise..
Movies and videos are usually paid on a flat rate basis, not on word count or
time.
From what I've heard it's about 20-30 man per movie. That's a pretty low rate
when you consider the amount of money that has gone into the production.
For me the most tedious task is adding time codes after the translation is
finished. Time coding a three hour movie would put me in mental institution.
Just for that I admire Toda Natsuko's work.
Mukade
L.R.C.
Ryan Ginstrom wrote:
> Of course, she probably does very little of the actual subtitling herself --
> probably works from a shitayaku most of the time. So many aspiring
> subtitlers, you know. Probably has to pay them some sweat shop wages out of
> her fee...
>
Apparently not.
In the business she is well known for not having a gang of doting followers.
Mukade
L.R.C.
Scott Reynolds wrote:
>
> > Francis Ford Coppola always requested Toda Natsuko for his subtitling, but
> > Kubrick, who had the translations checked over in depth, refused her script.
> > Full Metal Jacket contained a lot of swearing, and Kubrick said that she
> > didn't represent it well.
> >
> > Translating English swearing into Japanese is a difficult task.
>
> Perhaps, but how in heaven's name did Kubrick make a judgment on how
> well Toda did the job?
>
According to my girlfriend's teacher the 'Full Metal Jacket' incident is well
known in the industry.
Kubrick flew Toda to the Philippines to explain the script in depth.
He was a devil for checking the finest details.
I don't know how much of this is true, but mt girlfriend's teacher is an
acquaintance of Toda's
Mukade
Michael Cash
<kgo...@mail.law.fsu.edu> cooed:
I was watching "Anne of Green Gables" on television here once. At the
scene where a nosy neighbor lady expresses concern that Anne is
working herself too hard by saying "That girl is going to kill
herself"....well, let's just say the translator didn't know that
phrase could have an idiomatic meaning.
Collin McCulley
"E. Mills" <burt_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:a5vdht$kog$1...@cobalt01.janis.or.jp...
Quoting one of the songs out of context.
The book itself does not read like this.
--Collin
Louise Bremner
"Kevin R. Gowen, II" <kgo...@mail.law.fsu.edu> wrote:
> > I gather this is standard practice, BTW. This could explain some of the
> > howlers I've seen in subtitles.
>
> Ｍｙunderstanding is that it is SOP for the translator to get a copy of the
> screen play as well.
I was told it's rare, and even if a script is provided, it doesn't match
the actual film much.
> I have always thought that the howlers are the result
> of the translator getting whooshed.
Many of them strike me as being due to the translator's cloth ear for
colloquial English dialog.
> Tell us some of your howlers!
Trouble is, I'm usually reading the subtitles when I can't hear the
English dialog over the "background" music and sound effects, so I don't
often get specific examples....
Near the beginning of GI Jane, the eponymous heroine (played by Demi
Moore?) was being interviewed by a high-ranking female ossifer, who
asked "Do you have a man?" The reply sounded to me to be a startled
"Ma'am?!?" as in "I _beg_ your pardon? Did you really say what I thought
you said?"
But it got subtitled as 「男？」("Man?")
--
Michael Cash
cooed:
Let's just say that I'm currently having a much easier time reading
Natsume Soseki's "Botchan" with the original pre-war kanji and kana
usage than I had reading those 6 lines.
There was already "Jabberwocky", anything else is just gilding the
lily.
Michael Cash
<cmcc...@earthlink.net> cooed:
>
>"Michael Cash" <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote in message news:qug48uomnlfj27r32...@4ax.com...
>> "Collin McCulley"
>> >"E. Mills"
>
>> >> I'm glad to see that they are following Tolkien's story. But..... I also
>> >> know that the hobbits are not little people. Now how in the world can they
>> >> follow Tolkien and make Bilbo and Frodo look like humans?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Did you see Forest Gump, where they made one
>> >of Gary Sinese's (sp?) legs disappear for half the
>> >movie by filling back in all the background
>> >that was behind it? Or Jurassic Park?
>> >Heck, they don't even really need _human_
>> >actors anymore. :-)
>>
>> I thought it was both legs...and thanks for telling me how they did
>> it. I've wondered for years about that.
>
> There was a "making of" (or maybe it was a
>Learning Channel special?) that showed the process
>in detail. But I think you are right -- it was
>both legs.
Know what else I just found out? After seventeen years of thinking him
black, I discovered that Murray Head is white.
Remember Tracy Chapman? If it hadn't been for a poster in a shop
window in Hirosaki, I *still* would have no idea if Tracy were black
or white, or even male or female.
I truly am *not* the brightest knife on the tree.
>
>
>> > Short answer -- they are small in the movie.
>> >Decently done -- there was only one time where
>> >I felt the effect was a little off.
>> >
>>
>> Remember "Under the Rainbow"?
>
> No. What was it?
A delightful movie full of munchkins.
Cindy
> Near the beginning of GI Jane, the eponymous heroine (played by Demi
> Moore?) was being interviewed by a high-ranking female ossifer, who
> asked "Do you have a man?" The reply sounded to me to be a startled
> "Ma'am?!?" as in "I _beg_ your pardon? Did you really say what I thought
> you said?"
>
> But it got subtitled as 「男？」("Man?")
God, I must ask how her line "Suck my dick!" was translated into Japanese!
storys
"Kevin R. Gowen, II" <kgo...@mail.law.fsu.edu> wrote in message
news:a5uhdj$acqlg$1...@ID-105084.news.dfncis.de...
>
> Tell us some of your howlers! One that immediately comes to mind for me is
> in "The Boondock Saints" which is 処刑人 in Japanese. By the way,
this movie
> is awesome, which is to say it iｓ totally sweet. Anyway, at some
point in
> the movie, a guy tells a joke where the punchline is, "I think I'll have a
> Coke", as in the soft drink. The subtitled translation was
「コカインくれ」.
>
the subtitles. It can be truly funny. I watched a German opera one time with
my wife & her friend who speaks German. I never had so much fun in my life.
French can be good too.
..............Tom.....................
storys
>
> They looked small enough in the scenes where you saw them standing next to
> humans. Gandalf in Bilbo's hobbit hole is a good example of this.
>
one of the eldar races ( not elven but one preceding them even )
...........Tom............................
Louise Bremner
> > But it got subtitled as 「男？」("Man?")
>
> God, I must ask how her line "Suck my dick!" was translated into Japanese!
Rats--I gave up before then. You mean it got interesting?
E. Mills
"Collin McCulley" <cmcc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:w8Kg8.33401$ZC3.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Quoting one of the songs out of context.
> The book itself does not read like this.
That's true. Unfortunately, Tolkien had his hobbits singing enough songs
like this to make skipping my way through his prose seem unavoidable.
Cindy
> Cindy <cind...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > > But it got subtitled as 「男？」("Man?")
> >
> > God, I must ask how her line "Suck my dick!" was translated into Japanese!
>
> Rats--I gave up before then. You mean it got interesting?
Yeah, when you mentioned "GI Jane"! And I am hoping to get a Shrek video in
Japanese when I get to Japan. How about this deal ... I will bring an original
Shrek video from the US, you obtain one in Japanese version and we swap?
However, I admire and respect all translators. Translation is not a job for
everybody.
storys
"Cindy" <cind...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3C841A00...@att.net...
>
> However, I admire and respect all translators. Translation is not a job
for
> everybody.
>
Cindy you don't know the half of it. One of my ex exchange students is a
girl ( young woman actually ) from Finland. She is 90% of the way through to
a masters degree in linguistics. One of the things she had to study was
translation both simultaneous and written. I don't remember all that she
told me but it was horrendous the stuff she had to do with even a simple
little job. My hat is off to people who can do this sort of thing. Poor
Anniina can only make herself understood in 8 languages & is fluent in 4 of
them I believe. this kind of facility with languages leaves me in awe. My
hat is off to these people. I speak two after a fashion & I had to work like
mad to get the second.
..................Tom................
Cindy
> "Cindy" <cind...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:3C841A00...@att.net...
> >
> > However, I admire and respect all translators. Translation is not a job
> for
> > everybody.
> >
>
> Cindy you don't know the half of it.
I used to earn money by translating. I worked for only two companies for s
translation work. So I don't know the half of it.
Scott Reynolds
Kubrick was well known for being a perfectionist. But what I was getting
at is that unless he took a crash course in Japanese he would have had
no way of evaluating the quality of Toda's translations of the dialog
containing swearing. Having someone translate her subtitles into English
for him would have been completely pointless, it seems to me.
BTW, _Full Metal Jacket_ was filmed in England, not the Philippines.
Scott Reynolds
Why don't you use your imagination.
Collin McCulley
"E. Mills" <burt_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:a60s5e$1uj$1...@cobalt01.janis.or.jp...
The songs mostly give backstory. You could actually
skim them, or skip to where the prose
picks up again, and you wouldn't miss too much.
The prose itself is quite engaging, except that a
dictionary comes in handy for all the obscure
geographical terms like "fen".
--Collin
Scott Reynolds
Yes, definitely. <g>
Zac Craven
> > Kubrick flew Toda to the Philippines to explain the script in depth.
> BTW, _Full Metal Jacket_ was filmed in England, not the Philippines.
>
Yes thats right. you are thinking of Apocalypse Now, which was filmed
mainly in The Philippines.
By the way, anyone who loves this film has gotta watch Heart of Darkness -
the documentary on the filming of this movie, made by Coppolas wife. Its as
good as the movie itself, seeing Sheen have a heart attack, flip out
mid-scene, the whole Brando turning up as a fat bastard thing, the
helicopters flying off mid-shoot to go and fight in the war. great stuff.
Michael Cash
<sto...@DELETEexeculink.com> cooed:
>
>"Cindy" <cind...@att.net> wrote in message
>news:3C841A00...@att.net...
>>
>> However, I admire and respect all translators. Translation is not a job
>for
>> everybody.
>>
>
>Cindy you don't know the half of it. One of my ex exchange students is a
>girl ( young woman actually ) from Finland. She is 90% of the way through to
>a masters degree in linguistics. One of the things she had to study was
>translation both simultaneous and written. I don't remember all that she
>told me but it was horrendous the stuff she had to do with even a simple
>little job.
After I finished doing "Father Fucker", I thought about doing Uchida
Yasuo's "Bara no Satsujin". I got a couple or three pages into the
prologue and was having major difficulties with one particular point.
The prologue, you see, deals with the actions and thoughts of one
particular person. We are never told who the person is, nor even if
the person is a male or female. Having read the book, I knew which it
was. The author left it vague on purpose. Interestingly, in Japanese
it made no difference to the readability of the prologue whatsoever.
But try writing all that in English without the use of either "he" or
"she"....I don't think it's possible. And just on that one point
alone, the plot in an English translation would already be somewhat
compromised. A big no-no in a mystery novel.
Michael Cash
cooed:
>Cindy wrote:
>> Louise Bremner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Near the beginning of GI Jane, the eponymous heroine (played by Demi
>>>Moore?) was being interviewed by a high-ranking female ossifer, who
>>>asked "Do you have a man?" The reply sounded to me to be a startled
>>>"Ma'am?!?" as in "I _beg_ your pardon? Did you really say what I thought
>>>you said?"
>>>
>>>But it got subtitled as 「男？」("Man?")
>>
>> God, I must ask how her line "Suck my dick!" was translated into Japanese!
>
>Why don't you use your imagination.
She's a married Japanese woman, she can't imagine sucking a dick.
Cindy
> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:53:41 +0900, Scott Reynolds <s...@gol.com>
> cooed:
>
> >Cindy wrote:
> >> Louise Bremner wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Near the beginning of GI Jane, the eponymous heroine (played by Demi
> >>>Moore?) was being interviewed by a high-ranking female ossifer, who
> >>>asked "Do you have a man?" The reply sounded to me to be a startled
> >>>"Ma'am?!?" as in "I _beg_ your pardon? Did you really say what I thought
> >>>you said?"
> >>>
> >>>But it got subtitled as 「男？」("Man?")
> >>
> >> God, I must ask how her line "Suck my dick!" was translated into Japanese!
> >
> >Why don't you use your imagination.
>
> She's a married Japanese woman, she can't imagine sucking a dick.
Sucking a dick? I know it's called "blow job" or "oral sex". This is why this
translation confuses me. In the scene, Demi wasn't asking the guy to give her
oral sex. She sounded rather like: あんたのパンチやキックなんか「へ」じゃないわ
よ。（大した事ないわよ。）
Doesn't it make more sense? However, do you know any better and more harsh
expression for Japanese?
Cindy
> Cindy wrote:
> > Louise Bremner wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Near the beginning of GI Jane, the eponymous heroine (played by Demi
> >>Moore?) was being interviewed by a high-ranking female ossifer, who
> >>asked "Do you have a man?" The reply sounded to me to be a startled
> >>"Ma'am?!?" as in "I _beg_ your pardon? Did you really say what I thought
> >>you said?"
> >>
> >>But it got subtitled as 「男？」("Man?")
> >
> > God, I must ask how her line "Suck my dick!" was translated into Japanese!
>
> Why don't you use your imagination.
Sorry, my imagination is out of order. How is your imagination telling
you about this translation?
Eric Takabayashi
characterization, and I believed succeeded marvelously, Headhunter by pseudonym
"Michael Slade":
Given four and a half stars in 15 Amazon reader reviews.
Before I'd heard of more recent films, this was one of the most twisted stories
I'd ever read. Big shocker at the end. Even better than another four and a half
star thriller Gone, But Not Forgotten by Phillip Margolin:
or another four and a half star thriller Presumed Innocent by Scott Turow:
Collin McCulley
"Michael Cash" <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote in message news:06a98u8sgl9p76s21...@4ax.com...
It can't be rendered in first person?
--Collin
Michael Cash
<cmcc...@earthlink.net> cooed:
>
I hadn't thought of that....
Michael Cash
All I know is you just got mildly whoooshed again.
Louise Bremner
> How about this deal ... I will bring an original
> Shrek video from the US, you obtain one in Japanese version and we swap?
Shrek's a cartoon, isn't it? With Eddy Murphy? Not sure I'd be
interested in it, but thanks for the thought.
Louise Bremner
> One of the things she had to study was
> translation both simultaneous and written.
I think you mean "interpretation and translation". They're two totally
different skills, and yes, I'd admire anyone who can do both.
storys
"Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1f8m432.5cutdufcnkyqN%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> storys <sto...@DELETEexeculink.com> wrote:
>
> > One of the things she had to study was
> > translation both simultaneous and written.
>
> I think you mean "interpretation and translation". They're two totally
> different skills, and yes, I'd admire anyone who can do both.
>
Possibly but she used the term translation. Maybe I misheard or something.
This lady is phenomenal! We went to her place this past summer to attend her
wedding. She and her fiancé took us to meet her future in laws. Imagine a
room full of people all talking at once & she's translating for the three
( My wife, my son & me ) who don't speak Finnish. She overloaded exactly one
time & there were no funny grammar errors either. You would have laughed
though to see her attempting to teach me to speak Finnish. there are 17 ( I
think ) cases, no pronouns whatsoever and a very rich vocab. Me?? NO talent
whatsoever for languages!! I learned how to say Thank you and You're
welcome & that's about it. Part of it too was the fact that over 90% of the
people I ran into spoke excellent English including one woman who was so
drunk at 09:00 hrs that she couldn't even stand up properly. Couldn't stand
but her English was very good. Slurred a bit but understandable.
...............Tom.........................
Louise Bremner
> Possibly but she used the term translation.
That's OK--you did imply that English isn't her native language.
> Imagine a room full of people all talking at once & she's translating for
> the three ( My wife, my son & me ) who don't speak Finnish.
Her hand must've been exhausted from all that writing.
Ryan Ginstrom
"Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1f8m432.5cutdufcnkyqN%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> different skills, and yes, I'd admire anyone who can do both.
And I cringe when someone tells me they can.
I know I'm in for a long day when I hear:
"Your translation has been checked by one of the top interpreters in Japan."
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
storys
> > Imagine a room full of people all talking at once & she's translating
for
> > the three ( My wife, my son & me ) who don't speak Finnish.
>
> Her hand must've been exhausted from all that writing.
>
Sorry I blew that one. It was all oral so interpreting would be the correct
term here. Yes her native tongue is Finnish. She learned English & Swedish
as a requirement in Grade school & then added German & French 'cause she
thought they sounded neat. Then came the discovery that Norwegian & Danish
were easy given the Swedish & then she picked up Greek & something else in
University just 'cause she thought it might be fun. She is totally without
accent even in English Swedish and French. She has even studied in these
countries for a year or so at a time so her fluency is right up there. I
don't know how she keeps it all straight. I've only ever seen her have one
problem.She was describing her wedding dress which she bought in France
while she was there at University & the word for gloves deserted her so she
used the French word as she knows that Heather & I both speak French as well
as English. Not bad in my book!! I certainly could not do anywhere near as
well.
..............................Tom......................
storys
"Ryan Ginstrom" <ryangi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a63ocr$qnu$1...@news.medias.ne.jp...
>
> And I cringe when someone tells me they can.
>
Some can.
> I know I'm in for a long day when I hear:
> "Your translation has been checked by one of the top interpreters in
Japan."
>
Perhaps your translation is so obscure that it needs interpretation?. All I
know is that according to Anniina it takes several years of University to
become a certified translator.
................Tom..................
Ryan Ginstrom
"storys" <sto...@DELETEexeculink.com> wrote in message
news:u8atrnm...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Ryan Ginstrom" <ryangi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a63ocr$qnu$1...@news.medias.ne.jp...
> >
> > And I cringe when someone tells me they can.
>
> Some can.
Lots of things are possible. Whether they are often achieved is a different
matter entirely, of course.
> Perhaps your translation is so obscure that it needs interpretation?.
Perhaps.
> All I
> know is that according to Anniina it takes several years of University to
> become a certified translator.
Please tell me more. I'm always looking out for ways to improve my
translation. Does Anniina have any more tips for becoming a good translator?
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Brett
>
>I know I'm in for a long day when I hear:
>"Your translation has been checked by one of the top interpreters in Japan."
How often does your English get "corrected"? Do you see the final work?
I don't translate but several times I've had text "corrected". I wrote "the
Suzuka Grand Prix" and it was "corrected" to "*a* Grand Prix race at Suzuka
circuit". I make enough mistakes without other people fucking it up for me.
Talk about having a dog and barking as well.
Ryan Ginstrom
"Brett" <jet...@deja.com> wrote in message
news:a644q...@drn.newsguy.com...
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:38:26 +0900, "Ryan had nothing better to do than
write ...
> >
> >I know I'm in for a long day when I hear:
> >"Your translation has been checked by one of the top interpreters in
Japan."
>
>
> How often does your English get "corrected"?
I would imagine that a lot of my translations are edited to some degree.
It's the type of editing that is the problem. There are basically two types
of correction:
1. Valid corrections (places where I screwed up, they have a preferred term,
etc.)
2. Corrections that turn perfectly good English into gobbledygook.
There are many, many reasons for #2, but most can be traced to cluelessness
on the part of the customer.
> Do you see the final work?
Sometimes.
The problem with a lot of native Japanese-speaking interpreters is that they
are too confident in their English ability. They are so used to speaking
(what they assume is) flawless English that they think they can second guess
the native English speakers on matters of usage. And often, they have a
stake in "proving" their ability to their employer -- i.e. "Look at all the
errors I found, what would you have done without me?"
I have met *very* few native speakers of Japanese who can turn out
native-level written English, be they interpreters or not. As a point of
reference, based on my experience Shuji's written English is better than
that of 95% or more of the professional NSJ translators working into
English.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Cindy
> All I know is you just got mildly whoooshed again.
So?
You love it, don't you?
Cindy
> Cindy <cind...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > How about this deal ... I will bring an original
> > Shrek video from the US, you obtain one in Japanese version and we swap?
>
> Shrek's a cartoon, isn't it? With Eddy Murphy? Not sure I'd be
> interested in it, but thanks for the thought.
A 3D cartoon. It's PG-13, but there is a comment: Some contents are not
appropriate for small children.
Cindy
I don't really care if she is certified or licensed or how fluent she can be.
When she masters one language that doesn't require the alphabets, I may
consider she is genius.
Let me tell ya, Japanese is a nasty language compare to other European
languages. For example, you say "I go to school." in English, but we say "I
school (to) go.". Word order is completely reversed. Plus, you have to learn
kanji, hiragana and katakana. It's just a basic.
Scott Reynolds
> I don't really care if she is certified or licensed or how fluent she can be.
> When she masters one language that doesn't require the alphabets, I may
> consider she is genius.
You mean like one of those African languages that has no written form?
> Let me tell ya, Japanese is a nasty language compare to other European
> languages. For example, you say "I go to school." in English, but we say "I
> school (to) go.".
That's funny. My son usually says "Itte kimasu" when he leaves for
school in the morning, but maybe there really are some Japanese people
who say "I school go."
> Word order is completely reversed. Plus, you have to learn
> kanji, hiragana and katakana. It's just a basic.
Some scholars think that Finnish is related to Japanese (more closely
related than to Indo-European languages, that is). So this girl might be
able to pick up Japanese in a week or two. You never know.
Louise Bremner
> I would imagine that a lot of my translations are edited to some degree.
I'm fortunate that I rarely get to see most of the editing.
> It's the type of editing that is the problem. There are basically two types
> of correction:
>
> 1. Valid corrections (places where I screwed up, they have a preferred
> term, etc.)
I welcome such corrections. I wish I could get more feedback concerning
them.
> 2. Corrections that turn perfectly good English into gobbledygook.
<wince>
There's also:
3. Passages which are clearly my work, but which have been re-typed.
They can range from entire jobs ("just fax in the translation, and our
OL will re-type it") to short sentences (I think what happens is that
someone "corrects" my work, someone else countermands the correction,
and then the OL has to re-type in my translation because of course they
haven't kept the original file).
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> Short answer -- they are small in the movie.
> Decently done -- there was only one time where
> I felt the effect was a little off.
>
Rivendell at the council, right?
Tony
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> Tell us some of your howlers! One that immediately comes to mind for me is
> in "The Boondock Saints" which is 処刑人 in Japanese. By the way, this movie
> is awesome, which is to say it iｓ totally sweet. Anyway, at some point in
> the movie, a guy tells a joke where the punchline is, "I think I'll have a
> Coke", as in the soft drink. The subtitled translation was 「コカインくれ」.
Two favorites:
In "Forbidden Planet", there's a scene where Altaira is asking Robby to make
her a dress studded with diamonds, the biggest ones he can make. Robby says "I
have five and ten karat stones on hand" and the Japanese sub says "I have five
and ten karat rings." Well, what else would a diamond "on hand" be? Sigh.
In "2001" Dr. Floyd is talking to his daughter on the phone, and asks where the
babysitter is. The daughter says "she's gone to the bathroom." The sub says
"she's taking a bath."
Tony
Anthony J. Bryant
> "Scott Reynolds" <s...@gol.com> wrote in message
> news:3C83044E...@gol.com...
>
> > I want to see the movie. I'll probably take the whole family. It's just
> > that I have no desire to read Tolkien's original.
>
> "In Dwimordene in Lorien
> Seldom have walked the feet of Men,
> Few mortal eyes have seen the light
> That lies there ever, long and bright.
> Galadriel! Galadriel!
> Clear is the water of your well;..."
>
> Have you read enough?
>
> Ed
On the topic:
"At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and
proud he seemed again; and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice,
more clear that any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before:
Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden!
Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter!
Spear shall be shaken, shield splintered,
A sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!
With that, he seized a great horn from Guthlaf his banner-bearer, and he
blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the
horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of
Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the
mountains.
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!"
Great stuff.
Tony
Anthony J. Bryant
> But Gandalf isn't human! If you read the other books you will find he is of
> one of the eldar races ( not elven but one preceding them even )
Not quite. Gandalf and the wizards were Maiar -- basically, angels.
Tony
Michael Cash
Of course. Now I can tell my friends that I was talking about blow
jobs with another man's wife and she said "You love it, don't you?"
Collin McCulley
"Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbr...@indiana.edu> wrote in message news:3C83DD3F...@indiana.edu...
That's the one.
--Collin
David Fossett
> In "2001" Dr. Floyd is talking to his daughter on the phone, and asks
where the
> babysitter is. The daughter says "she's gone to the bathroom." The sub
says
> "she's taking a bath."
I see what you mean; she could have been taking a shower or just washing
her face, I suppose. ;-)
--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, JAPAN
storys
>
>
> Please tell me more. I'm always looking out for ways to improve my
> translation. Does Anniina have any more tips for becoming a good
translator?
>
Danged if I know. She is currently engaged in finishing up with her masters
in this area so I assume ( yes I know this is dangerous ) that her
professors are where she gets her ideas. I know that she doesn't like doing
written translation. I don't quite understand why but it seems she enjoys
language research more so maybe this is why?
...............Tom...............
storys
>
> I don't really care if she is certified or licensed or how fluent she can
be.
> When she masters one language that doesn't require the alphabets, I may
> consider she is genius.
>
This is done on a regualr basis Cindy. There are some here who do it! Her
base language has NO connection to English whatsoever. I.E. it is NOT an
Indo-european language with connections to latin etc. The only known related
languages are Hungarian and a few obscure tribal dialects in the north of
Russia.
> Let me tell ya, Japanese is a nasty language compare to other European
> languages. For example, you say "I go to school." in English, but we say
"I
> school (to) go.". Word order is completely reversed.
Sounds just like German. I even know a rather bad joke about the German
language. Seems there was a guy giving a speeh at the U.N. one day. the
simultanious translation was going along just fine & then all of a sudden it
stopped. When they rushed into the room where he worked ( the translator )
they found him on the floor in foetal position murmering over and over," All
the verbs are on the last page."
> Plus, you have to learn
> kanji, hiragana and katakana.
Only if you care to be literate. Even so many here have mastered it. I know
the Japanese like to think that theirs is the hardest language in the world
to master and that it is an impossibility. However, facts do not bear this
out. I know a few kanji. I only know those few of significance to me right
now. Should I move to Japan on a permanent basis you may wager the rent that
I would become literate. I would have to. I couldn't bear to have all that
reading material closed to me. There are classes in Japanese within a few
kilometers of where I live and a large Japanese library is up and running in
Toronto. Someone must be reading this stuff & taking these classes. I doubt
that there are enough Japanese to keep the library going and I really do
doubt that the Japanese Canadians are the only ones takeing Japanese
Language classes especially in Hamilton Ontario. There is an English teacher
here in Brantford who is taking Mandarin Chinese. No alphabet here! Rita is
lending a hand but the teacher is taking the classes on her own initiative
for her own reasons ( whatever they may be )
Tom.....................
Cindy
> Cindy wrote:
>
> > I don't really care if she is certified or licensed or how fluent she can be.
> > When she masters one language that doesn't require the alphabets, I may
> > consider she is genius.
>
> You mean like one of those African languages that has no written form?
Such as Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, for example. Any language that doesn't require the
ABC. Not in Roman characters either.
> > Let me tell ya, Japanese is a nasty language compare to other European
> > languages. For example, you say "I go to school." in English, but we say "I
> > school (to) go.".
One mistake: Please omit "other" before the European languages. Since Japanese
isn't related to European languages such as English, French, German and Spanish.
That was my mistake. I apologize, OK?
> That's funny. My son usually says "Itte kimasu" when he leaves for
> school in the morning, but maybe there really are some Japanese people
> who say "I school go."
"I school go" is my very special unforgettable phrase. Every time I use this
phrase, it reminds me of the special French girl I met in England.
Both she and I didn't know English any better. Of course we didn't know each
other's native language - French or Japanese. We had to rely on our limited
English conversation skills. She was a nice and smart girl.
She asked me how the Japanese language was like. She was already aware that the
Japanese language required some strange characters. I answered her accordingly.
Then she gave me some sympathetic look and told me that I would have a hard time
learning English. I was puzzled. She said "How do you say 'I go to school' in
Japanese? In French, in the same word order - I go to school." I said to her "In
Japanese, it goes "I school go". Then she went "See! English is very difficult
for you. It is easy for us to learn."
It was a brief conversation, however, she enlightened me with what sort of handicap
I was going to have against other ESLers.
Please understand what I am trying to say and reply to my comments accordingly,
Scott. arigatosan.
> > Word order is completely reversed. Plus, you have to learn
> > kanji, hiragana and katakana. It's just a basic.
>
> Some scholars think that Finnish is related to Japanese (more closely
> related than to Indo-European languages, that is). So this girl might be
> able to pick up Japanese in a week or two. You never know.
I have worked with a Finnish national flight attendant. She is based in DFW so we
run into each other occasionally in the terminal. She is a qualified Finnish,
Spanish, German, French, Portuguese speaker. Plus, English isn't her first
language. She told me that she had to self-study Spanish but didn't mention how
she acquired other languages. The other day, she told me she'd read the famous
Arthur Golden's Memories of Geisha IN Spanish and gave me some comments on the
book.
I am pretty sure this Finnish flight attendant can master Japanese in three days if
she becomes real serious. However, it's all up to her interest, enthusiasm and
passion to learn the language.
Cindy
> Ryan Ginstrom <ryangi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I would imagine that a lot of my translations are edited to some degree.
>
> I'm fortunate that I rarely get to see most of the editing.
>
> > It's the type of editing that is the problem. There are basically two types
> > of correction:
> >
> > 1. Valid corrections (places where I screwed up, they have a preferred
> > term, etc.)
>
> I welcome such corrections. I wish I could get more feedback concerning
> them.
>
> > 2. Corrections that turn perfectly good English into gobbledygook.
>
> <wince>
>
> There's also:
>
> 3. Passages which are clearly my work, but which have been re-typed.
> They can range from entire jobs ("just fax in the translation, and our
> OL will re-type it") to short sentences (I think what happens is that
> someone "corrects" my work, someone else countermands the correction,
> and then the OL has to re-type in my translation because of course they
> haven't kept the original file).
While you do your translation work, can you get to contact with the writer to ask
questions?
Cindy
> On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:49:24 GMT, Cindy <cind...@att.net> cooed:
>
> >Michael Cash wrote:
> >
> >> All I know is you just got mildly whoooshed again.
> >
> >So?
> >
> >You love it, don't you?
>
> Of course. Now I can tell my friends that I was talking about blow
> jobs with another man's wife and she said "You love it, don't you?"
Good thing is you love it; bad thing is you can't get it.
Cindy
> > Plus, you have to learn
> > kanji, hiragana and katakana.
>
> Only if you care to be literate. Even so many here have mastered it.
I think they made great efforts.
> I know
> the Japanese like to think that theirs is the hardest language
I didn't say "the hardest language". I said "nasty".
> in the world
> to master and that it is an impossibility. However, facts do not bear this
> out. I know a few kanji.
I think we are having this conversation because you don't really commit to learn
Japanese.
> I only know those few of significance to me right
> now. Should I move to Japan on a permanent basis you may wager the rent that
> I would become literate. I would have to. I couldn't bear to have all that
> reading material closed to me. There are classes in Japanese within a few
> kilometers of where I live and a large Japanese library is up and running in
> Toronto. Someone must be reading this stuff & taking these classes. I doubt
> that there are enough Japanese to keep the library going and I really do
> doubt that the Japanese Canadians are the only ones takeing Japanese
> Language classes especially in Hamilton Ontario. There is an English teacher
> here in Brantford who is taking Mandarin Chinese. No alphabet here! Rita is
> lending a hand but the teacher is taking the classes on her own initiative
> for her own reasons ( whatever they may be )
Well, I can not do anything for you until you find a very good reason to learn
Japanese.
Louise Bremner
> While you do your translation work, can you get to contact with the writer
> to ask questions?
Depends on the job. Some writers cannot be contacted, or can only be
contacted through a string of minions (especially when an agency is
involved). I prefer to work directly with the client.
Scott Reynolds
> Scott Reynolds wrote:
>
>
>>Cindy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't really care if she is certified or licensed or how fluent she can be.
>>>When she masters one language that doesn't require the alphabets, I may
>>>consider she is genius.
>>
>>You mean like one of those African languages that has no written form?
>
>
> Such as Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, for example. Any language that doesn't require the
> ABC. Not in Roman characters either.
Um, you do know that Arabic and Hebrew are written using alphabets, right?
And what about Greek or Russian? Neither of those is written using the
Roman alphabet.
>>>Let me tell ya, Japanese is a nasty language compare to other European
>>>languages. For example, you say "I go to school." in English, but we say "I
>>>school (to) go.".
>>
>
> One mistake: Please omit "other" before the European languages. Since Japanese
> isn't related to European languages such as English, French, German and Spanish.
> That was my mistake. I apologize, OK?
No problem. I was getting a little confused, but you straightened me out.
Thanks.
>>That's funny. My son usually says "Itte kimasu" when he leaves for
>>school in the morning, but maybe there really are some Japanese people
>>who say "I school go."
>
>
> "I school go" is my very special unforgettable phrase. Every time I use this
> phrase, it reminds me of the special French girl I met in England.
>
> Both she and I didn't know English any better. Of course we didn't know each
> other's native language - French or Japanese. We had to rely on our limited
> English conversation skills. She was a nice and smart girl.
>
> She asked me how the Japanese language was like. She was already aware that the
> Japanese language required some strange characters. I answered her accordingly.
> Then she gave me some sympathetic look and told me that I would have a hard time
> learning English. I was puzzled. She said "How do you say 'I go to school' in
> Japanese? In French, in the same word order - I go to school." I said to her "In
> Japanese, it goes "I school go". Then she went "See! English is very difficult
> for you. It is easy for us to learn."
>
> It was a brief conversation, however, she enlightened me with what sort of handicap
> I was going to have against other ESLers.
>
> Please understand what I am trying to say and reply to my comments accordingly,
> Scott. arigatosan.
Actually, I don't think the difference in the word order is a
particularly difficult aspect of learning English for Japanese speakers.
It seems to me that things like learning how definite and indefinite
articles work, or how the English tenses differ from the Japanese and
the proper uses for them, are more difficult.
But the word order difference can be tricky when translating very long
or complex sentences from E to J or vice versa. I will certainly admit that.
>>>Word order is completely reversed. Plus, you have to learn
>>>kanji, hiragana and katakana. It's just a basic.
>>
>>Some scholars think that Finnish is related to Japanese (more closely
>>related than to Indo-European languages, that is). So this girl might be
>>able to pick up Japanese in a week or two. You never know.
>
>
> I have worked with a Finnish national flight attendant. She is based in DFW so we
> run into each other occasionally in the terminal. She is a qualified Finnish,
> Spanish, German, French, Portuguese speaker. Plus, English isn't her first
> language. She told me that she had to self-study Spanish but didn't mention how
> she acquired other languages. The other day, she told me she'd read the famous
> Arthur Golden's Memories of Geisha IN Spanish and gave me some comments on the
> book.
What did she think of it?
> I am pretty sure this Finnish flight attendant can master Japanese in three days if
> she becomes real serious. However, it's all up to her interest, enthusiasm and
> passion to learn the language.
Three days? Wow!
Cindy
> Actually, I don't think the difference in the word order is a
> particularly difficult aspect of learning English for Japanese speakers.
I think Japanese speakers can master Korean as fast as French speakers
master English.
> It seems to me that things like learning how definite and indefinite
> articles work,
That's very hard, indeed. People want to correct my typos, but why
don't they correct my articles work?
> or how the English tenses differ from the Japanese and
> the proper uses for them, are more difficult.
Probably the Japanese tense is much more vague while the English tense
has a set rule.
> But the word order difference can be tricky when translating very long
> or complex sentences from E to J or vice versa. I will certainly admit that.
gokurouchan
> > I have worked with a Finnish national flight attendant. She is based in DFW so we
> > run into each other occasionally in the terminal. She is a qualified Finnish,
> > Spanish, German, French, Portuguese speaker. Plus, English isn't her first
> > language. She told me that she had to self-study Spanish but didn't mention how
> > she acquired other languages. The other day, she told me she'd read the famous
> > Arthur Golden's Memories of Geisha IN Spanish and gave me some comments on the
> > book.
>
> What did she think of it?
She seemed to like it. She was amazed at many small episodes and
didn't make any criticism.
Cindy
> Cindy <cind...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > While you do your translation work, can you get to contact with the writer
> > to ask questions?
>
> Depends on the job. Some writers cannot be contacted, or can only be
> contacted through a string of minions (especially when an agency is
> involved). I prefer to work directly with the client.
I am sure you do.
Do you refuse work when you take a look at it and decide it's not for
you?
Michael Cash
>Scott Reynolds wrote:
>
>> Actually, I don't think the difference in the word order is a
>> particularly difficult aspect of learning English for Japanese speakers.
>
>I think Japanese speakers can master Korean as fast as French speakers
>master English.
>
>
>> It seems to me that things like learning how definite and indefinite
>> articles work,
>
>That's very hard, indeed. People want to correct my typos, but why
>don't they correct my articles work?
>
Because correcting article mistakes is very きりがない. I don't mean
for you in particular, but for Japanese in general.
Michael Cash
>Michael Cash wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:49:24 GMT, Cindy <cind...@att.net> cooed:
>>
>> >Michael Cash wrote:
>> >
>> >> All I know is you just got mildly whoooshed again.
>> >
>> >So?
>> >
>> >You love it, don't you?
>>
>> Of course. Now I can tell my friends that I was talking about blow
>> jobs with another man's wife and she said "You love it, don't you?"
>
>Good thing is you love it; bad thing is you can't get it.
Oh, you've met my wife?