Stepping down

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stephanenico...@gmail.com

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Jun 23, 2021, 12:38:43 PMJun 23
to FishCooking

Hi everybody :-)

This small message to inform you that I am stepping down as a maintainer for the Stockfish project.

Indeed, I feel I am no longer in synch with the community concerning the urge to have clean and minimal code for Stockfish, as I have proposed a 100+ lines simplification which was not committed and received only negative feedback.

Since I strongly feel that the project should provide minimal C++ code, but nobody seems to care about that goal anymore, I feel I am too old and stupid to help anymore.

Sincerely yours, and thanks for all the fun during these nice years.
Stéphane Nicolet

Rob Ovenden

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Jun 23, 2021, 4:44:22 PMJun 23
to FishCooking
Whaaat?? Didn't you just do a fortress detection patch? Is this the real Stephane?

Rob

Pasquale Pigazzini

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Jun 23, 2021, 5:17:02 PMJun 23
to FishCooking
Thank you Stéphane for all your hard work: team building, wiki documentation, maintainer duty, great patches and memorable moments :)
I wish you way more than luck,
Pasquale

Bryan

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Jun 23, 2021, 9:20:25 PMJun 23
to FishCooking
Stéphane, I hope you will reconsider. What you have given to this project over the years is enormous, and your creativity, insight, intelligence, and leadership have been invaluable, both of the game and of the code. Not everyone knows this, especially newer contributors. I know it is difficult, because this is a community of many voices with different opinions. (And in some ways that is a strength.) Disagreement and objection is part of this process, but it makes us stronger, especially if we don't let it get to us. I am always grateful for your many contributions and suggestions. I hope you can take some lovely trips in your sailboat this sumer, and enjoy the ocean waves, wind, and sun!

Ted Wong

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Jun 24, 2021, 1:23:51 AMJun 24
to FishCooking
Stéphane,

I've been following your and everybody else's works over the years. Thanks for all your works. However, you may want to reconsider your resignation. Stockfish as a community project is of course not immune to conflicts. Your scenario was just not too much big deal. More communication will resolve the situitation.

Yery Spark

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Jun 24, 2021, 1:17:56 PMJun 24
to FishCooking
Hi Stéphane,

I fully agree with all your arguments in https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/pull/3545    , and understand 100% that you are frustrated that others do not seem to understand the long-term benefits of reducing complexity in the code.

Hope the other maintainers do not forget one of the fundamental reasons for the SF success: having easy to read, easy to tune, and easy to maintain code. Without this continuous effort to keep the SF code clean, it would have slowly grown into a monster whose code nobody understands anymore, and needless to say, would have slowly lost its community! I sincerely hope we are not going down this path!

Regards,
Yery

Bojun Guo

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Jun 24, 2021, 3:14:22 PMJun 24
to FishCooking
The fundamental reason for SF success is it is strong and works out of box for everyone. Nobody really cares about how complicated the code is as long as they are not garbage.
There you have this NN black box that nobody understands how it produced better evals, then to argue that 100 lines of vectorized code which nobody should touch are complications of maintenance. There are plenty of such code everywhere, removing 100 lines here alone does not make it any less complicated, let alone other obvious complications it can cause.
There are also plenty of occurrences historically that optimizations are made in favor of strength at the cost of making someone else's life harder, RefreshTriggers for one, canSaturate for another.

Clear principles are to be made and followed to the text, I can like it or not like it, but now with this double standard at all levels I don't see there is any future down this path, therefore I will no longer contribute to the testing framework.

protonspring

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Jun 24, 2021, 7:40:19 PMJun 24
to FishCooking
Darn. . that stinks.  I really agree and support your urge for minimal and clean code.  That's really too bad, that you feel like you have to fight for it (trust me. . I have been there).
I hope you reconsider, but if not, best wishes in your future endeavors.

Bojun Guo

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Jun 25, 2021, 12:13:02 AMJun 25
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Joachim Müller (JojoM)

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Jun 25, 2021, 6:24:58 AMJun 25
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Don't be so ludicrous as to inflate this thing into something bigger than it actually is.

Come back, immediately!
Both of you!

JojoM

SapphireBrand

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Jun 25, 2021, 10:24:44 AMJun 25
to FishCooking
Stephane, I sincerely hope that your next post to the community will say that you have reconsidered and would like to continue as maintainer.

The community wanted you to be maintainer because you have the experience and judgment to make tough decisions. And when decisions are tough, then some people will object.

Note that very few people voiced objections, and objections were restricted in scope to one specific ticket, or to the interpretation of community standards. I have read the thread from top to bottom, and no one was asking for you to change roles.

Best and Warmest Regards,
Brian

Stefano Cardanobile

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Jun 26, 2021, 2:05:20 PMJun 26
to FishCooking
No please no stephane, that PR should be merged now.

On Wednesday, June 23, 2021 at 6:38:43 PM UTC+2 stephanenico...@gmail.com wrote:

Graci Henn

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Jun 29, 2021, 12:02:50 PMJun 29
to FishCooking
Well it looks like it got rejected. It seems like we won't be seeing noob in fishtest anytime soon. Regardless, thanks for your contribution! Without you the stockfish project would be years behind to what it is today, not possible to have this kind of elo gain without massive compute power. Not to discredit stephane, as you also need the know how to develop the engine. Both are important and it seems both of you won't be coming back. I guess only way for you to get good revenge on stockfish is to support an engine and dethrone stockfish with an undisputed elo advantage that is >50-100 elo. Don't know if that is possible at this level, but I guess you're on your way as openbench has now more cores than fish test. So good luck on your future endeavors!
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