FirePick Delta Documentation!

[Neil Jansen]

Still a work in progress, but:

http://delta.firepick.org/documentation

Sort of a brain dump at the moment, and none of it is 100% completed yet.  I got the four exploded views below done last night, and will be working on more exploded views for the rest of the day... These exploded views *should* be enough for the truly adventurous to start building the mechanical bits of their kits.  Wiring and other stuff will take a bit longer to get documented, but this should still be a welcome first step.

PDF's and such won't (and shouldn't) be attached to this email.  Bookmark the link, and visit it often.  http://delta.firepick.org/documentation will be the new go-to-spot for figuring out how to build and use your machine.

What should be discussed here in this email thread, is what you guys want / need for documentation, priority-wise.  I'm going off what I think is going to be the best bang for the buck for the beta test community. That list is roughly:

• Production-ready STL files posted to github, sorted by color, with brims / supports added (done) (link)
• Instructions to 3D print parts, for the barebones guys (infill %, etc).. This info is in the google mailing list somewhere, but I'll eventually get this formalized on the documentation page.  It's all pretty common sense stuff, though.
• Exploded views, annotated BOMs, and illustrated color diagrams of every assembly in the beta kit (link)
• In-depth, Dozuki / iFixit style instructions with illustrations and photos (not started, lower priority) (link)
• Wiring diagrams (partially completed) (link)
• Wiring instructions (not started)
• Software setup guide (in progress) (link)
• List of errata for beta kit round 1 (in progress)
• Bug submission guidelines (in progress) (link)
• Github repo links (in progress) (link)

As I've mentioned before, now that barebones and full kits are starting to show up, my #1 priority is going to be focused on documentation.  Please bookmark the link above, and comment if you have any input / comments / criticisms.

T

​

--

Neil Jansen, Co-Founder

Tin Whiskers Technology, LLC

http://tinwhiskers.io

[Joshua Pritt]

Holy cow those exploded views are great!
Since I'm a software guy I really need the step by step instructions with pictures from various angles.  Something a monkey could follow.  :)
Hopefully everyone with beta kits can help by taking pictures of their progress at every step! 

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[Karl]

Neil, 

That's one professional job!

Great work. :D

[Neil Jansen]

Some more exploded drawings that I managed to finish today:

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[Peter Betz]

I am floored by the professional quality of these, and it inspires me to get better at using CAD.

Did you learn on your own or is it part of your profession?

Peter.

[Neil Jansen]

On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 11:25 PM, Peter Betz <betzt...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am floored by the professional quality of these, and it inspires me to get better at using CAD.

Did you learn on your own or is it part of your profession?

 

I'm a college dropout, and I don't use it at work.  I took AutoCAD back in high school, but that was on Windows NT, and most of the time in that class was using mechanical pencil and that big drafting ruler thing.

I was thinking they were pretty ugly until I found the button that displayed them in shaded color, rather than just 2d lines.  Then I was all like,  ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[Peter Betz]

Haha, awesome.

Well, you continue to inspire me to be better and learn more, and there aren't many people who evoke that in me!

Peter.

[Peter Shabino]

Well half my kit made a detour to Iowa for some reason so just working off box #1. 

My kit inventory issues: (so far will complete once box #2 arrives)

Only received 3 out of 4 of 3D0021 (they were in a bag with the rest of the EMC mounting hardware so don't think it will be in box #2)  

"bed plate hardware set" was missing "1x 30" wire, 18 AWG, red" (other wires were there)

"End effector & arms hardware set" wires were 30" long vs 18"  (no big deal either a kitting issue or the label needs to be updated to avoid confusion.) 

Suspected BOM issues:

Looks like kits are short 2 frame nuts for power entry block (Hopping some of these are in the next box as I do see the power entry block on the BOM as well.)

Don't worry too much about above until I get box #2 and can verify all the parts are there or not.

Other issues:

5mm screws are too small to thread into the ends of the frame for the feet the just slide right in. A 6mm bolt works well if you tap the end of the frame had some on hand so did that on mine. A button head or cap head bolts will work. Don't have any on hand to try but you may be able to get away with self tapping bolts and or just regular sheet metal screws of the correct size. (no tapping required) 

Box #1 arrived in good shape (power supply and frame extrusions) No issues with packing or damage.  Will let you know how #2 arrives when it gets here. 

I have about 4 hours of assembly video so far I need to edit. Will try and get it posted before this weekend.  

Thanks,
Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

[Neil Jansen]

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 12:17 AM, Peter Shabino <wi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Well half my kit made a detour to Iowa for some reason so just working off box #1. 

Sorry to hear, I'm sure it'll make it there sometime this week.  We have your tracking number so we'll keep an eye on it and if anything bad happens, we'll get it all worked out.. let us know if / when you get it.

 

My kit inventory issues: (so far will complete once box #2 arrives)

Only received 3 out of 4 of 3D0021 (they were in a bag with the rest of the EMC mounting hardware so don't think it will be in box #2)  

"bed plate hardware set" was missing "1x 30" wire, 18 AWG, red" (other wires were there)

"End effector & arms hardware set" wires were 30" long vs 18"  (no big deal either a kitting issue or the label needs to be updated to avoid confusion.) 

I wasn't the one that did the kitting, but I'll pass the info on to the person(s) that did.  The 3D0021 definitely sounds like a goof on our part, as for the wire, any old wire laying around would do, but we can send you more if / when we need to send anything your way due to mishaps or otherwise.

 

Suspected BOM issues:

Looks like kits are short 2 frame nuts for power entry block (Hopping some of these are in the next box as I do see the power entry block on the BOM as well.)

Frame nuts?  Power entry block?  Not sure which part you're referring to here. 

 

Other issues:

5mm screws are too small to thread into the ends of the frame for the feet the just slide right in. A 6mm bolt works well if you tap the end of the frame had some on hand so did that on mine. A button head or cap head bolts will work. Don't have any on hand to try but you may be able to get away with self tapping bolts and or just regular sheet metal screws of the correct size. (no tapping required) 

 

This is a verified issue, one that I'm quite upset about.  I documented it on the errata page this afternoon, and posted it to the address below.  The full story of what happened and possible steps to mitigate it can be found there.

http://delta.firepick.org/beta-kit-hardware-round-1/

 

 

I have about 4 hours of assembly video so far I need to edit. Will try and get it posted before this weekend.  

Very cool, this would be a huge help.

[Peter Shabino]

Just a comment on the feet. A M6 bolt (button head or cap screw) fits well in the existing foot. No signs of distortions or buckling in the foot. Long term a cheaper and easier solution since no need to buy or install the heli-coil. Will also give some English sheet metal screws a try tonight. If we luck out and one is the proper diameter to bite that would be the fastest and cheapest solution as it removes the need to tap the holes all together. 

Later, 

Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 00:35:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [FirePick] Full kit field report
From: ne...@tinwhiskers.io
To: fire...@googlegroups.com

[Neil Jansen]

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 7:41 AM, Peter Shabino <wi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Just a comment on the feet. A M6 bolt (button head or cap screw) fits well in the existing foot. No signs of distortions or buckling in the foot. Long term a cheaper and easier solution since no need to buy or install the heli-coil. Will also give some English sheet metal screws a try tonight. If we luck out and one is the proper diameter to bite that would be the fastest and cheapest solution as it removes the need to tap the holes all together. 

We used 2-part epoxy on the two demo machines we built, which was pretty quick and easy... still seems to be holding up just fine.

As I said before, I'm really bummed about this, I was planning on tapping the holes for an M5 thread, which you can do with Misumi and some other extrusion types.  This particular supplier of aluminum extrusion, however, didn't specify the hole diameter at the time we purchases, so I had no idea until we were kitting the parts to be shipped.

Good to know about the M6 fastener though.  I'll amend the errata page with that info.  Did you tap the hole for M6?  Or did you just screw it in / self-tap?

[Peter Shabino]

For the M6 I did have to tap the frame in order to get the screws to even start. 

For a non tap option a #12 (english) pan head sheet metal screw seems to be the winner. 

The screw head / shaft fit though the existing foot with no issues and is easy to start in the frame. 

Screwing it in is a little stiff but doable with a good #2 philips screwdriver. (Not sure how fun it would be with a worn out or undersized screwdriver) I just happened to have 3/4" #12 on hand and I think a 1/2" #12 screw would be more ideal.

Did not get a shot of it but the thread cut by the screw inside the channel were not very deep but the screw was very secure even at that depth. 

Box #2 arrived at my local post office at 2am today so hopefully it will be on my porch when I get home. Will give a updated report on packing and shipping then. 

Later,
Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 08:20:53 -0400

Subject: Re: [FirePick] Full kit field report
From: ne...@tinwhiskers.io
To: fire...@googlegroups.com

[Joshua Pritt]

I'm also super impressed with the exploded parts diagrams.  I'm considering printing them out, framing them, and just hanging them on the wall.

I'm excited to see what kind of step by step pictures and videos everyone will be posting.  Hopefully I can help out taking pictures of the build when we get ours at the makerspace.

--

[The Guru]

Video would be awesome. Frankly I don't know where to start at the moment. But I will dig in tomorrow with the frame and work from there.

-Tom

[greg....@kutu.com.au]

Hi Neil,
   these are fantastic.  My full kit arrived as I was leaving for work this morning so I can't wait to get started.

I printed all of these out and I picked up a minor issue.  The Wade Extruder AT0002 was exported as a png, instead of a pdf so you can't read the text because it's too blurry.

cheers,
Greg

[Neil Jansen]

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 8:41 PM, <greg....@kutu.com.au> wrote:

Hi Neil,
   these are fantastic.  My full kit arrived as I was leaving for work this morning so I can't wait to get started.

I printed all of these out and I picked up a minor issue.  The Wade Extruder AT0002 was exported as a png, instead of a pdf so you can't read the text because it's too blurry.

Good catch, I'll get that fixed now.

Cheers, 

[Peter Shabino]

For the life of me I cannot find this part in my kit nor on the assembly diagram for the extruder (part #6) 

3DAT004

1

Guidler

Black. For extruder

Can anyone help point out what this part is supposed to look like? 

Back to sorting and counting kit contents. (Box 2 showed up) 

Thanks,

Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 23:36:57 -0400
Subject: Re: [FirePick] Re: FirePick Delta Documentation!
From: ne...@tinwhiskers.io
To: fire...@googlegroups.com

[Neil Jansen]

Take a look on the documentation page on the left-hand side, you should see a page that shows images of all the parts:

http://delta.firepick.org/stl-references/

Right now I'm having trouble getting SquareSpace to label the images, but you can click on the github link (https://github.com/firepick-delta/firepick-delta/tree/dev/Documentation/STL%20images) and see the images, which are named.

The one you're looking for is:

https://github.com/firepick-delta/firepick-delta/blob/dev/Documentation/STL%20images/3DAT004%20-%20Guidler.png

Cheers,

-- 

Neil Jansen, Co-Founder

Tin Whiskers Technology, LLC

http://tinwhiskers.io

[Peter Shabino]

Ok turns out I have that part but am missing the latch (thought the guidler was the latch) 

Documentation suggestion add a link to the images on the main bom for the 3d printed parts. Would have answered my question :) 

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 22:58:59 -0400
Subject: Re: [FirePick] Help what is a Guidler
From: ne...@tinwhiskers.io
To: fire...@googlegroups.com

[Peter Shabino]

Happy to say the bears made it just fine and were quickly consumed. 

Box 2 also came in good shape and no damage to any of the items packed in it. 

3d printed parts all looked good with the exception of the 3DAT0010a. You must have been having issues printing those. Part is usable but you can tell it shifted during print (last few layers are off) and the inside of the print is very rough and stringy. (one side looks semi melted and there are little balls of melted plastic.) Again usable as is just was not on par quality wise as all the other parts. 

Here is my combined list of missing parts:

Only received 3 out of 4 of 3D0021 (they were in a bag with the rest of the EMC mounting hardware so don't think it will be in box #2)  

Missing 3DAT0027 (extruder latch)

"bed plate hardware set" was missing "1x 30" wire, 18 AWG, red" (other wires were there)

short 4 FNUT-M5-HNKK5 (I may have lost them as I did count the bad before starting and though they were all there.)

These are also on the bom but were not in the kit nor listed on any bag (maybe I am missing a bag?)

5mm x Heat shrink tubing - 1" unshrunk (SMT tool tab)

2x Ferrule, resistor to 24 AWG wire (3D printing modular tool tab)

2x Heat shrink, PTFE (Teflon) (3D printing modular tool tab)

2x Heat shrink, for thermistor leads (3D printing modular tool tab)

2x 35mm Heat shrink tubing, 3/8" dia (3D printing modular tool tab)

** 500mm Techflex sleeving (optional) (3D printing modular tool tab)** optional so guessing it was not in the kit intentionally  

2x 15mm Heat shrink tubing, 1/8" dia unshrunk (End effector and arms tab)

Documentation issues:

"End effector & arms hardware set" wires were 30" long vs 18"  (no big deal either a kitting issue or the label needs to be updated to avoid confusion.) 

Wires for the 3D printer modular tool were in the bag but not listed on the label. (no big deal again just different than all the other bags) 

Of the short parts the only ones I really need replaced are:

1x 3D0021

1x 3DAT0027

the PTFE heat shrink (if this is different than the normal stuff you get at harbor freight or similar)

The rest of the wire, heat shrink, nuts and bolts I can pick up locally.

Also if anyone is interested I just ordered 25' of orange Techflex sleeving so will have way more than I will ever need.

Got the first batch of videos running though handbrake now so should be able to start editing tomorrow. Unfortunately I am leaving town this weekend so may not get the edits done and posted until sometime next week.

Thanks,

Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

From: wi...@hotmail.com
To: fire...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [FirePick] Full kit field report
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 23:17:59 -0500

[Peter Shabino]

Ok went back over the T-nut (FNUT-M5-HNKK5) numbers now and the kits are short 4 (all of them not just mine) 

Frame needs 44 (12 for top plate, 2 per corner bracket * 16 = 32) but the "Frame hardware" bag only has 40 (missing 4) 

Heated bed needs 8 and 8 where included in the "Bed plate hardware" bag

Upward camera needs 2 and 2 were in the "Upward Looking Camera Hardware Set" bag

3D extruder needs 1 and 1 was in the "3D Printing Modular Tool Hardware" bag

Air pump mounting bracket needs 2 and 2 were included in the "SMT Modular Tool Hardware Set" bag

My guess is 4 were missed in the model so the automatic bom was also short them.  

Also missing from the "packing list" and kit is 3D0053 ATX frame. 

It is listed under the "ATX power supply" tab. Guessing they are sitting there and Just did not get packed in my kit. (possibly others?)

Thanks,

Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

From: wi...@hotmail.com
To: fire...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [FirePick] Full kit field report box #2
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 00:16:11 -0500

[greg....@kutu.com.au]

Hi Peter,
   My kit arrived in a single box (I assume it's something to do with being international).

I have been through the package, but haven't done a full inventory yet.  You seem to be checking everything before you start.  I'm doing it a section at a time.

So far I have only built the frame.

I can confirm that I am also short 4 extruder nuts, and the 3D printed 3D0053 ATX frame.

I'm not sure about the 3DAT0027 extruder latch. I notice it's on the parts list for the Wade extruder, but I can't find it in the drawing anywhere, so I can't tell you either way if I have it or not.  It may be no longer in the design.  You'll have to ask Neil about that one.

So far I don't have any showstoppers.  I will tap some nut fittings it I can't find nuts that will fit, and I will use the 3D printer at work to print out a 3D0053.

cheers,
Greg

[Peter Shabino]

Yea did a full inventory before staring so I could get replacements for missing parts sourced before I needed them :). 

On this print

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U7icB6QM8FMl9HZ1RhS3ZUTVE/view?usp=sharing

The flat piece that the springs press on is the latch (no stl image of this one in the repo). 

It then presses on the Guidler (almost looks like one piece in that view. Here is the stl image of the Guidler:

https://github.com/firepick-delta/firepick-delta/blob/dev/Documentation/STL%20images/3DAT004%20-%20Guidler.png

Thanks,

Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 07:14:10 -0700
From: greg....@kutu.com.au
To: fire...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [FirePick] Full kit field report.. Awake now and can do math all kits short parts.

[Bruce Bock]

The stl is in the Production Files - Black, 3DAT0027, Extruder latch on Github

Life at the speed of Moore.

[Assaf Inbal]

I can also confirm that I'm missing the extruder latch along with the ATX frame, 4 extrusion nuts and a few other small things.

BTW - if anyone is interested, I'm photographing my build process (https://plus.google.com/photos/103713917042685124356/albums/6153966946821929473?authkey=CPia55m5prrd8wE). It might help someone out there until the documentation is ready. Note that these images ared filtered or edited so some might be out of focus on some document mistakes I've done along the way (like install one of the stepper mounts up-side-down).

I've started with the frame and arms. Next in line was the extruder but then I found I'm missing the latch. The images are currently being uploaded, so it will take a while until they're all there.

[Joshua Pritt]

Yes!  More build pictures!  I don't have a kit yet so I'm putting it together vicariously through everyone else!

Great work everyone.

[Assaf Inbal]

One other thing that was missing for me with the extruder kit, was a set screw for the small gear that should be attached to the motor. There is one large set screw that, as far as I can tell, is used to hold one of the bearings in place (though it doesn't exactly fit the 3d printed latch). I also don't think it was listed in the BOM.
Does any one else have it?

[Peter Shabino]

Don't remember seeing that in my kit either will double check that tonight. My guess is there is also a nut to go along with that setscrew / bolt  that is missing as well. (can see the pocket in the gear for one on the prints) 

Later,

Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 13:52:15 -0700
> From: shmu...@gmail.com

> To: fire...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [FirePick] Full kit field report.. Awake now and can do math all kits short parts.
>

> One other thing that was missing for me with the extruder kit, was a set screw for the small gear that should be attached to the motor. There is one large set screw that, as far as I can tell, is used to hold one of the bearings in place (though it doesn't exactly fit the 3d printed latch). I also don't think it was listed in the BOM.
> Does any one else have it?
>

[Neil Jansen]

Nice pictures!  Looks like you're in the lead right now as well.  Great to see one of the first mostly-assembled FPD's out in the wild.  

One thing I notice, on the guidler, your M8x20mm set screw can be pushed in further until you hear a bit of a click.  it's a press-fit, I usually need to use needle-nose pliars to get them in.  Other than that, your build looks great.

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Assaf Inbal <shmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Neil Jansen]

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Assaf Inbal <shmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

One other thing that was missing for me with the extruder kit, was a set screw for the small gear that should be attached to the motor. There is one large set screw that, as far as I can tell, is used to hold one of the bearings in place (though it doesn't exactly fit the 3d printed latch). I also don't think it was listed in the BOM.
Does any one else have it?

There's no set screw on the small gear, just an M3x10mm screw and an M3 nut (It looks like I forgot to explode these out on the expanded view.   Will have to check the 3d model and the packing list to verify if they're there or not.

[Peter Shabino]

See attached photo. The end effector body is too short and if I line up the screw holes on the fan and endoscope holder there is a large gap (1/4") between the two body parts. Also the "holes" for the ball studs are exposed though the bottom of the print. 

Was this part split in three at some point and I am missing one third?

Either way it looks like I need to add another item to my short / bad parts list

Thanks,

Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:19:18 -0400

Subject: Re: [FirePick] Full kit field report.. Awake now and can do math all kits short parts.

From: ne...@tinwhiskers.io
To: fire...@googlegroups.com

[Neil Jansen]

Can you send me another picture of the black hub piece from a different angle?  I'm trying to figure out what the heck happened there.  Again, I was not the one that did the packing, and there's no way I'd have let that go out the door if it was that obvious.  

Another picture or two would go a long way to figuring out what happened.

[Peter Shabino]

More photos

Almost looks like the print was started half way though. 

Also on the bottom you can see the weird melt issue. Think it is structurally sound just looks funky. 

What is the plan for magnet retention in the upper half? Just glue them in? Current part the holes are much larger than the magnets they fall right out.  

Thanks,
Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:50:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [FirePick] Full kit field report.. Bad print / missing part on end effector
From: ne...@tinwhiskers.io
To: fire...@googlegroups.com

[Neil Jansen]

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 9:03 PM, Peter Shabino <wi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Almost looks like the print was started half way though. 

Also on the bottom you can see the weird melt issue. Think it is structurally sound just looks funky. 

What is the plan for magnet retention in the upper half? Just glue them in? Current part the holes are much larger than the magnets they fall right out.  

The ONLY way that that particular thing could have happened is if it was sliced wrong before it was printed.  That is, the Z of the part was too low on the plate before converting to g-code (Simplify and other similar programs will just ignore anything below Z=0 and won't alert the user.  I believe that Z=0 for that part is the midpoint of the M3 hole.  

The bottom is too shiny to have been caused by something after print time.  

Here's the sliced file that I intended to be used for all of the production pieces:

You can see that in the one that I set up, the file had no chance of messing up like that.   I can even go as far as to post the g-code that was used to print the production parts, there's literally no way that could have ever happened if they were printed from the plate that I created.  

I can't say whether or not someone else at the office sliced it improperly or not.  I went through every single g-code file that I've personally sliced for production and I don't see anything like that.  So either it was someone else at the office, or I'm going crazy.

So as of right now Peter, I don't know what to say, other than I'm sorry and that I need to figure out how this happened.  I also need to figure out if this happened to anyone else.  This really sucks.

Will let you know what I find out.

[Peter Shabino]

Shit happens more just letting you know and hopped to catch you before you sent out any of the other missing 3d parts :)

Was the extruder "latch" supposed to be in the kits? Looks like all of us are missing them as well. I am unique on the module holder missing. 

Thanks,
Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 21:27:00 -0400

Subject: Re: [FirePick] Full kit field report.. Bad print / missing part on end effector
From: ne...@tinwhiskers.io
To: fire...@googlegroups.com

[The Guru]

I can confirm I'm missing the ATX frame, 4 extrusion nuts, and some other things as well.  Not sure about the extruder latch - haven't gotten that far yet, and a couple big bags were missing so I'm waiting on those.

Also documenting progress...

http://cyberrailguru.com/pix/index.php?/category/30

As it stands now I borrowed some extrusion nuts from the heated bed to get the frame fully assembled.

-Tom

[Peter Betz]

My kit arrived!

I laughed when I saw the gummy bears, I thought the package was going to be so much bigger based on the pictures other people posted! I thought they were a funny touch.

For the most part everything looks really great and I am looking forward to starting assembly on it, however I too have a few things to report:

- No carbon rods were found in the box. (I have not actually inventoried the kit yet, I wouldn't have felt the need if it weren't for all of the other issues people are reporting)

- My glass was broken. I nearly got stabbed in the foot when a giant broken piece fell out from between the heated bed and the metal bed as I pulled it out of the box. (I am not implying any blame, if mine was     the only one broken it must have been subject to an 'event' during shipping to cause this).

- I am wondering how some of these printed parts were consciously put in my kit...... (Delta stepper mounts, end effector light diffuser etc.). I have a 3D printer so it isn't a matter of unrealistic expectations.

- I am not seeing any cut-tape feeders (strip holders) or similar in there anywhere or on the BOM?

 

Peter.

[Peter Shabino]

My shipment came in 2 boxes over 2 days. Did you get both?

Later,

Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 21:20:48 -0700
From: betzt...@gmail.com
To: fire...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [FirePick] Re: FirePick Delta Documentation!

[Peter Betz]

I think the international shipments were in one box, if that question was for me.

I am wondering if the fugly parts of my delta stepper mounts are some sort of horizontal printing support ? I didn't think so as I saw it on the stl reference images, but I think I just saw someone else's mounts that appeared to be missing that flat part ?

Peter.

[Peter Shabino]

They are semi ugly on mine as well but don't think it will cause any issues. Will know more in a few days when I assemble it.

Later,
Peter

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 21:45:35 -0700
> From: betzt...@gmail.com
> To: fire...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: [FirePick] Re: FirePick Delta Documentation!

>
> I think the international shipments were in one box, if that question was for me.
>
> I am wondering if the fugly parts of my delta stepper mounts are some sort of horizontal printing support ? I didn't think so as I saw it on the stl reference images, but I think I just saw someone else's mounts that appeared to be missing that flat part ?
>
> Peter.
>

[greg....@kutu.com.au]

One thing I also found was that all 4 of the printed rubber feet were in the box, but only 3 of them are rubber/silicone, and the 4th one was PLA.  It's easy to see why that got missed, because they look the same, except that 3 were soft, and one was hard.

I went down to the hardware at lunchtime and bought a set of stick-on rubber feet, and also a tapping set with a M6 tap and some M6 screws.  I will post some pics after I tap out the extrusions, because everyone will need to this bit.
I have been assembling my delta on the coffee table with my 3 year old son and 2 year old daughter helping, so the rubber feet are essential.

It's important that we post every little fault we find, even if it's no big deal.  Part of the purpose of the beta program is to sort out all the logistics issues.  There are a lot of parts in this project, and to get it perfect first go is impossible.  Hopefully the next round of beta kits will have even less issues (there aren't that many considering how complex the project is).  The point is that at the moment the group can handle the 99% ok, 1% error, but once these kits start working, and especially doing PnP, then the pressure will mount up to make sure the kits work out of the box.  I don't envy Neil and Felix on this one.

BTW. Neil, I am having so much fun with this kit since it arrived.  Trying to work out how it all goes together is much better than getting something that's ready to go.

Greg

[Peter Shabino]

Agreed lots o fun. Kinda bummed I have to go to a family gathering this weekend rather stay here and assemble what I can. 

My projects:
http://www.wire2wire.org/

---

Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 22:16:17 -0700
From: greg....@kutu.com.au
To: fire...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [FirePick] Re: FirePick Delta Documentation!

[Neil Jansen]

- No carbon rods were found in the box. (I have not actually inventoried the kit yet, I wouldn't have felt the need if it weren't for all of the other issues people are reporting)

Let me know as soon as you inventory the kit whether they're there or not. 

 

- My glass was broken. I nearly got stabbed in the foot when a giant broken piece fell out from between the heated bed and the metal bed as I pulled it out of the box. (I am not implying any blame, if mine was     the only one broken it must have been subject to an 'event' during shipping to cause this).

We put two giant red "Fragile - Glass" stickers on each box, and packed them very carefully (well at least those were my instructions).  That's the first one we've heard of that was damaged in shipping.  This was one of the reasons we decided to ship domestic kits in two boxes (less weight / momentum to do damage).  My guess is that someone ignored the big red stickers.  DHL is admittedly not as good as FedEx or UPS in my experience at getting packages to their destination in one piece. 

I think the international shipments were in one box, if that question was for me.

Yes, international shipments were one box, and domestic (United States) were two separate boxes.  

 

I am wondering if the fugly parts of my delta stepper mounts are some sort of horizontal printing support ?

Yes, it can and should be removed.  Bridging isn't super great on some of the machines, the E3D hotends that I payed tons of money for aren't working out nearly as great as the hype.  Serves me right for buying what was supposed to be "the best" hotend available, and for buying 7 of them at that.  

 

I didn't think so as I saw it on the stl reference images, but I think I just saw someone else's mounts that appeared to be missing that flat part ?

Most of the pieces had the printed support material cut off, but not all of them were.  This is the sort of stuff I wanted to get documented, but we're back in crisis mode with all these kit shortages that happened when I was out of town.  Most of the reference images show supports in place.

Everyone that's legitimately missing stuff will be getting a box of the missing parts shipped as soon as I can get a full list from everyone of what's needed.  Since most (but not all) of these aren't show-stoppers, there's still plenty of stuff in the kit to get started with while those replacement parts are being shipped.

[Neil Jansen]

On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 1:16 AM, <greg....@kutu.com.au> wrote:

It's important that we post every little fault we find, even if it's no big deal.  Part of the purpose of the beta program is to sort out all the logistics issues.  There are a lot of parts in this project, and to get it perfect first go is impossible.  Hopefully the next round of beta kits will have even less issues (there aren't that many considering how complex the project is).  The point is that at the moment the group can handle the 99% ok, 1% error, but once these kits start working, and especially doing PnP, then the pressure will mount up to make sure the kits work out of the box. 

Agreed.  I hope everyone understands that I am going to do everything in my power to make sure that this kind of crap doesn't keep happening on future orders.  Some of these mistakes are downright stupid, others were mis-communication, and others were genuine oversights that I probably didn't stand any chance of catching until someone else inventoried a kitted box.  Being that we were already running late, that meant that quality control didn't happen as it should have.  Everything will eventually get solved, but doing so without high turnover or adding on unnecessary process is going to take work.  Right now we're just a couple of guys in a crappy tiny office trying to keep our limited shelf space organized and our process and paperwork to a minimum.  Adding help last-minute without much training to do critical things like packing and kiting is going to be error-prone.  As is crimping cables by hand, as is soldering through-hole parts by hand, counting nuts and washers, it's all error prone.  The usual solution is to make more and to sell more, let a factory in some foreign country handle it, find fulfillment, etc. But we can't do that yet, not with the quantities we're working with.

I don't envy Neil and Felix on this one.

You shouldn't.  I'm having my third nervous breakdown in 2 days, and I'm running a 102 degree fever, and all my vacation and sick time is used up.  All this mess is cutting into my documentation time, so I'm sure I'm going to get a bunch of emails about how that's lacking as well.   That's going to push the software development tasks that I had planned out to the right, which will provoke even more disappointment, I'm sure.  

[Assaf Inbal]

I too am enjoying myself too much with building this machine, the lack of documentation only makes it more interesting :)

There's no set screw on the small gear, just an M3x10mm screw and an M3 nut (It looks like I forgot to explode these out on the expanded view.   Will have to check the 3d model and the packing list to verify if they're there or not.

I don't see the screw in the "3D printing Modular Tool Hardware" bag, not on its sticker nor in the BOM, so it might have been left out.

One thing I notice, on the guidler, your M8x20mm set screw can be pushed in further until you hear a bit of a click.

Added some force and managed to get it in, thanks.

I'm afraid I also have a problem with the hobbed bolt. I can't get the 3DAT0028 nor the bearings over the hobbed section. The 3DAT0028 I can maybe scrape down a bit to make it fit but the bearing is a problem. Did anyone try to build the extruder yet and can comment?

[Assaf Inbal]

I'm afraid I also have a problem with the hobbed bolt. I can't get the 3DAT0028 nor the bearings over the hobbed section. The 3DAT0028 I can maybe scrape down a bit to make it fit but the bearing is a problem. Did anyone try to build the extruder yet and can comment?

OK, so after scraping the spacer I managed to slide all the way through the bolt and after applying a lot of pressure, the bearing made it as well. However, I now see that the hobbed section of the bolt is aligned with hole for the fillament should go through. See below image. How much of an issue is this? I think I need to either clean up the place holder for the bearing or scrape the spacer to make it shorter.

 

[Charles Steinkuehler]

On 5/29/2015 5:33 AM, Assaf Inbal wrote:
>
> OK, so after scraping the spacer I managed to slide all the way through the
> bolt and after applying a lot of pressure, the bearing made it as well.
> However, I now see that the hobbed section of the bolt is aligned with hole
> for the fillament should go through. See below image. How much of an issue
> is this? I think I need to either clean up the place holder for the bearing
> or scrape the spacer to make it shorter.

You definitely want the hobbing lined up with the hole. I've built
several Greg's Wade Remixed Extruders (one's printing my plasting
parts right now), and it's common for the plastic base of the bearing
on the gear side to be a bit "stringy" and lift up. The bearing
should seat firmly against the plastic of the extruder body, and in
your photo I can tell it isn't. Some possible solutions:

* If the "stringy" plastic is the problem, you may be able to just
fully assemble your extruder. When you tighten the bolt, it may be
pulled into position.

* I typically cut out the worst of the "strings" with a hobby knife
prior to assembly.

* File down the 3D printer spacer a bit, or do what most folks
building Greg's Wade do and stack some washers to get the proper spacing.

Good luck!

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net

[Charles Steinkuehler]

Remember to try and relax every once in a while!

Honestly, I think you've done a great job on everything so far. The
documentation is already _way_ better than most open-source projects
I've worked with. My first 3D printer (MendelMax 1.5, still going and
printing my FirePick parts as I type) came with nothing more than a 3D
PDF file by way of instructions. :)

And as for the software, hopefully everyone understands it is still
very actively under development. This is the first open source
rotational delta I'm aware of *AND* it's a pick-and-place machine and
not (primarily) a 3D printer. When the Rostock came out, the software
was a crazy mess, and all it changed was kinematics. You're not only
working with a new mechanism, but a totally new software stack for
pick-and-place as well.

So far as I can tell, things are going very well, with lots of
progress being made. I look forward to getting my machine assembled
enough I can start helping with the software. I'm sure many of the
other beta users will also begin contributing to software and
documentation now that the kits are out there.

The best part of an open source project is when other people help to
solve your problems! :)

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net

[Joshua Pritt]

I'm also very impressed by how well these BETA kits are so good.  Normally the beta phase is where you find tons of mistakes and oversights.  Seems pretty dang great to me!

It's also great how well everyone is reporting the issues so it can all go into the documentation and packing instructions for the next kits - which is one of the main purposes of a beta test.  Great job everyone!

I agree the documentation, instructions, etc. is way better than other projects like the way we had to follow a youtube video to put together the Reprap Wilson TS "stretch" we have at the Melbourne Makerspace.

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net

[Peter Betz]

I agree with the other posters above me. I hope my email didn't sound like I was complaining (except for the print quality of a couple pieces, I was, haha. but now we have figured that out!). Things are going great, and just like you said this phase is for us to help you work out the bugs.

My inventory list did not have a check box by the rods, so I'm pretty sure they aren't there. I will look again when I get home tonight.

Was there supposed to be cut tape feeders or anything in these kits as previously indicated ?

I am also very pleased with the exploded veiws. It is a clever way to get enough information out there to start building kits without having to do full blown written instructions. I hope people aren't complaining about that.

Take care and look after your health. If you need to take a few days off from all of this, just tell us, we get it and it might be something you need.

However, Anything more than a few days and we will need to see a doctors note ;)

Peter.

[Donald Papp]

I want to take a moment to say that I have been where you are. More
than once because some things I learned too late. Please take a break.

I don't mean go out for supper and maybe a movie, I mean check out for a
while, at least a week. If you are still stuck needing to go to your
day job, then do what you have to but shut the door on the rest.

I know it does not feel like you can and you are already behind and
you've probably considered it already and decided you can't right now.
But try to make it happen. It never feels like you CAN take a break
when you most need one because your sense of urgency and importance
tends to get distorted. Many of us are still doing kit inventory, some
of us have started assembly and only gone so far. We will survive just
fine and I am sure that the startup end of things (another place I have
been as well) can be on cruise control as well.

Different strokes for different folks and I entirely understand that you
might work or relax differently than I. My advice might not be
appropriate for any number of possible reasons. But on the chance that
you're at all similar to me and have even SOME of the same levers, check
out for a while. It will help. You have become a casualty and
casualties need to go in for repair. You'll be able to relax and
recharge if you just give yourself permission to let go for a bit and
trust that things will work out fine (they absolutely will.)

Donald

[Neil Jansen]

I took a few days of vacation in SF after the Maker Faire, that's inevitably what led to all these kitting mistakes.  

Lesson learned, never go on vacation! (Kidding, kidding!)

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[Gaurav Singh]

Hello,

How much transparent/translucent (in %) must be 3DAT0010a bottom end effector must be?

[Michael Anton]

Gaurav,

You might want to start your own thread for asking these questions, rather than resurrecting some really old ones that don't have much to do with your questions.

Mike

[Karl]

Gaurav,

The effector can be any color or material you like.

The only transparent parts we have are for the LED light diffusers.

Although I am a NeoPixel ring advocate, I have been experiencing glare issues

even with a translucent 3DP diffuser for the NeoPixel. This glare makes it difficult

to recognize things on a shiny PCB. Because of this, I'm experimenting with ambient lighting

using these https://github.com/firepick/FireGear/wiki/LEDSTRIP

I haven't yet mounted those on my FPD, but I think they should work better than the

NeoPixel for PCB lighting. Although mounted on the effector, the NeoPixel ring is therefore

more of a fancy status light, which I'm keeping because I'm sentimental about moving

blinky lights. 

In summary, the effector is any plastic you like.  The only consideration might be to choose a 

plastic whose color will provide high contrast with whatever part you will present to the

upward looking camera.

And yes, it will be more helpful to collect all your posts under something like "Gaurav's FPD adventure" 

so that we may all refer to the relevant context. :D

[Joshua Pritt]

Wouldn't a very flat, deep, pure, white color be best for contrast against parts for the up looking camera?

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[Karl]

For some reason, I've seen that the disks behind the pnp nozzles tend to be fluorescent yellow. THere's probably a reason for that. Dunno :D

[Siegecraft]

Generally machines that have the fluorescent backings are utilizing blacklight, with uplooking cameras, to present a silouette image.  

Helped a lot with older cameras that had less effective auto balance and brightness.

-Hans

[Karl]

Ahh. Thanks, Hans!

I've noticed that the PiCam autobalance and focus seem to take up to 0.5 seconds, which

tempt me to try avoiding all that and perhaps revisit the old ways. :D

[Siegecraft]

The older machines at work have a dedicated vision processing system, separate from the machine system.  A lot of parallel processing in order to gain speed in the 1990's era system.

They also only look for a silhouette, instead of a complete image.  Hence the blacklight and flourescent backings on the nozzles. 

Our Fuji CP machines have dual upward looking cameras,  one for narrow angle view on smaller components, and another for wide angle view on larger components.  In addition to a downward looking fiducial camera.

The Fuji IP machines have a single upward camera per head,  wide angle, and vision processing is much slower due to the generally larger component size and lead count.

All manually adjustable lenses,  set and locked at specific focal lengths and focus.   Brightness and Contrast are software adjustable, but again are set at fixed levels.

Since these are our older machines, slated for replacement,  they're still running CCTV style cameras with analog outputs.  

The trick is to run the parts over the camera so the bottom of the component is at a known height,  then your focus and focal length will be the same from part to part,  and you don't have to re-focus every time.

Then have tight control over any ambient light,  which can really screw things up.  

[Karl]

Hans, That's encouraging and matches our current findings. 

Jacob posted this link to Slack: http://www.ni.com/white-paper/6901/en/

Our current vision is loosely designed around Raspberry Pi Noir camera with

ambient LED lighting. FPD initially used a NeoPixel 16LED ring, but I'm leaning towards

dark field  or ambient lighting with fixed focus and aperture. This seems to be

simple yet workable. The NeoPixel works fine with non-reflective surfaces (e.g., paper),

but PCB specular reflection is unavoidable without polarizing filters, which are just another

complication. Although I'd like to see us use something like the Nvidia Jetson CUDA friendly

boards for fast vision processing and deep neural network upside, i think the RPi3 and 

descendants will be quite fine. Initial FPD vision work with RPi2 was totally fine for vision processing

and now we have RPi3 and the new ASUS Pi clone. 

[Siegecraft]

Yeah, PCB reflectivity is always an issue.   Especially if you really mix types of boards and finishes.   Going from a matte green board, to a glossy red,  to a glossy blue, to an un-masked board.  Just a normal day around here.

On the development side I can't help much but the systems we have are very reliable once they're tuned in.   When bulbs need to be replaced it can be a pain to get it all back to stable function.

IIRC all of our fiducial cameras use some kind of a ring light.

One big benefit I can see in the commercial machines I work on, as opposed to most hobby level machines, is the full enclosures.   

It allows you to have a consistent lighting environment that doesn't suffer from issues of external light messing up the settings.  

Doesn't have to be totally blacked out, but having the cameras always inside some kind of controlled shadow can work wonders.

Most of the camera and camera lighting locations are buried pretty deep in the operating area of the machines.  

-Hans

[Karl]

Yes, the enclosures and all the other awesome engineering ramp up the costs significantly.

Over the past few weeks I have taken a step back from the solder paste work as I realized

that machine calibration is actually a highly critical and frequent requirement for hobby level machines.

Commercial machines can be machined for long term precision with minor adjustment.

However, if hobby machines rely on 3DP parts that differ from machine to machine then we

really need calibration to be robust, reliable and easy to use.

This particularly came home to me as I was thinking through Cartesian calibration, which I 

naively expected to be much easier than FPD calibration. It is definitely easier, but not trivial.

I've also become a rabid fan of auto-calibration--my Lulzbot mini does a great job of simplifying

my life. I got tired of writing kinematic equations and doing linear algebra, so I am currently

experimenting with using a neural network for kinematic calculation and calibration. I don't have

anything to show except the smile on my face as I get Javascript to do all my linear algebra and

gradient descents. It is sheer joy to simply call derivative() and have a Javascript function come out!

:D

And thanks to Reef for giving me the idea. Math is so much better when puters crunch the equations.

[Joshua Pritt]

I also like the way the deltamaker 3d printer self calibrates using a solenoid pin to touch the table in various places.

Can we do the same?

I also like the idea of letting computers do all the math. That's why I took the CS concentration in college with the least math.  I only had to go up to business calculus.

[Siegecraft]

Doesn't necessarily need to be a full enclosure,   just something to shadow the vision lighting and camera enough to prevent ambient light leakage.  

As an example, the CharmHigh machines from China, which always bring the component to a fixed camera location for vision processing.   Wouldn't be too hard to add a small smoked plexi box around just that area if it's always running a known head path.

Anyway, I just typed up a huge block-o-text on pick and place calibration technique and kinda think it deserves its own thread, as it can become too much of a tangent.

Going to open a fresh one on that topic momentarily.

-Hans