new firebug is extremely awful

i...@pitertour.ru

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Feb 8, 2017, 7:29:37 AM2/8/17

to Firebug

sad...

Sebastian Zartner

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Feb 8, 2017, 1:33:36 PM2/8/17

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There is no new Firebug, Firebug is discontinued. You got automatically switched to the Firefox DevTools (with a Firebug theme to make the transition a little easier). Please see the related Mozilla Hacks blog post for more info and read the migration guide.
If you're missing something, please have a look whether it is already listed as blocker of bug 991806. If not, please file a new bug and mark it as blocker of that one.

Sebastian

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 1:29:37 PM UTC+1, i...@pitertour.ru wrote:

sad...

John Von Vincent

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Feb 9, 2017, 12:56:04 AM2/9/17

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I agree, the element picker doesn't even work. And no option to go back!

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 7:29:37 AM UTC-5, i...@pitertour.ru wrote:

sad...

Sebastian Zartner

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Feb 9, 2017, 4:54:45 PM2/9/17

to Firebug

The element picker does work, though due to a bug it first selects the <body> element before selecting the actually inspected element. See bug 1324254.
If it really doesn't work for you at all, please file a new bug and post the link to it here as reference.

On Stack Overflow I've mentioned options how to get Firebug back (temporarily).

Sebastian

Jörg Steinhauer

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Feb 13, 2017, 8:23:10 AM2/13/17

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yes, the new "firebug" sucks! in comparison to old one it'S a crap, what a shame. think about to switch to chrome.
FF and firebug was my tool #1 for webdev for years! but now... guys, I hope you fix that stuff...

Am Mittwoch, 8. Februar 2017 13:29:37 UTC+1 schrieb i...@pitertour.ru:

sad...

Sebastian Zartner

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Feb 13, 2017, 9:31:02 AM2/13/17

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Please note that this thread is not reaching the DevTools team.

I am trying to forward specific requests about missing features and UX improvements, but if you want to reach the DevTools team directly, please do that via their official communication channels. And I suggest, when you do so, try to be as specific as possible. It's hard to act on general complaints.

Sebastian

John Alexander

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Feb 13, 2017, 9:42:49 AM2/13/17

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Sebastian, you have the patience of Job. After all those great years of development and such a labour of love, to be able to respond to such a nasty remark like that with patience and clarity is impressive. Thanks for all your efforts !

John

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George

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Feb 18, 2017, 11:45:28 AM2/18/17

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Firebug was amazing but became so bad

that i cant use it anymore.

I hope that the firebug team

switch to the old interface sonn

Erik Krause

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Feb 18, 2017, 3:20:45 PM2/18/17

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Am 17.02.2017 um 17:48 schrieb George:
> Firebug was amazing but became so bad
> that i cant use it anymore.

What specifically don't you like?

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Sebastian Zartner

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Feb 18, 2017, 8:56:10 PM2/18/17

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As I wrote earlier, Firebug is officially discontinued. You got switched to the Firefox DevTools. Please read the comments above.

Sebastian

M Gol

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Mar 29, 2017, 6:56:23 AM3/29/17

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... i don't get it, up until a few days ago firebug was awesome, now automatically it's crap because it's discontinued? Can I still use the old (good) one, even though it's discontinued, if i promise to not call support? I never have in the last x years i've been using it, but this new one is worse than chrome's dev tools :s sorry

Lawrence San

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Mar 29, 2017, 12:14:19 PM3/29/17

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On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 6:56 AM, M Gol <mikg...@gmail.com> wrote:

... i don't get it, up until a few days ago firebug was awesome, now automatically it's crap because it's discontinued? Can I still use the old (good) one, even though it's discontinued, if i promise to not call support? I never have in the last x years i've been using it, but this new one is worse than chrome's dev tools :s sorry

Nobody here is saying that Firebug is "crap"... just that it doesn't work anymore with the newer versions of Firefox. Also I'm not aware that there was ever a way to "call support" -- what support? This is just a user forum, by the way, not an official Mozilla forum.

The only way to get Firebug to work again is to roll back Firefox to an earlier version and stay there (don't update FF anymore). Which I'm probably going to do anyway within the next few months... because the people who control FF are going to kill off far more than Firebug. They're planning to kill almost the entire FF extensions architecture (XUL). That will break my entire development environment, which relies on numerous extensions plus custom scripts I wrote to tie them together. Mozilla is planning to replace the current extensions environment with Chrome's inferior system. From my point of view, this means that Firefox is going to commit suicide later this year.

Of course, running an old browser isn't safe for general browsing purposes (no security updates) which raises a whole other set of hassles -- using different browsers for different purposes.

Sebastian Zartner

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Mar 29, 2017, 6:20:53 PM3/29/17

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On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 6:14:19 PM UTC+2, San wrote:

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 6:56 AM, M Gol <mikg...@gmail.com> wrote:
... i don't get it, up until a few days ago firebug was awesome, now automatically it's crap because it's discontinued? Can I still use the old (good) one, even though it's discontinued, if i promise to not call support? I never have in the last x years i've been using it, but this new one is worse than chrome's dev tools :s sorry

Nobody here is saying that Firebug is "crap"... just that it doesn't work anymore with the newer versions of Firefox.

Just to clarify this again. There is no "new Firebug". What you are seeing are the Firefox DevTools using a Firebug theme. Anything that you had in Firebug and you're now missing in the DevTools and that is not yet filed, should be suggested in the related thread.

Also I'm not aware that there was ever a way to "call support" -- what support? This is just a user forum, by the way, not an official Mozilla forum.

It is the official Firebug forum, though, where Firebug users were meant to get help. But it's correct that this is not a Mozilla forum.

The only way to get Firebug to work again is to roll back Firefox to an earlier version and stay there (don't update FF anymore).

There are actually more alternatives to the Firefox DevTools. If you want to get back Firebug (temporarily, until multi-process Firefox becomes mandatory), I've described how you can do this on Stack Overflow.

Which I'm probably going to do anyway within the next few months... because the people who control FF are going to kill off far more than Firebug. They're planning to kill almost the entire FF extensions architecture (XUL). That will break my entire development environment, which relies on numerous extensions plus custom scripts I wrote to tie them together. Mozilla is planning to replace the current extensions environment with Chrome's inferior system.

From my point of view, this means that Firefox is going to commit suicide later this year.

To give some background, Mozilla plans that Firefox 57 (shipping in November 2017) will only support WebExtensions and drop support for legacy extensions, which means that most current Firefox extensions won't work anymore at that point. Firefox will provide advanced APIs (actually does already) over the ones of Chrome (and other browsers), though extensions will still need to be ported to the new architecture in order to continue work.

Sebastian

Lawrence San

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Mar 30, 2017, 2:06:05 AM3/30/17

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One of the linked pages says that Firefox 47 was the last version fully compatible with Firebug. It links to a sourceforge page with "portable" Firefox 47 -- but all the downloadables appear to be .exe files, so useless to me on my Mac.

GetFirebug.com also seems to mention FF 47 as the cutoff -- it lists Firebug 2.0.17 as working with "Firefox 33-47".

In my archives, I have Mac Firefox installers for 45.3.0 ESR, and for FF 48.0.2, but not for FF 47.x. Will FF 48.0.2 fully work with some version of Firebug? If not, do you happen to know where I can download a safe copy of Mac FF 47? Thanks much.

By the way, regarding "...extensions will still need to be ported to the new architecture in order to continue work"... just about all the extension developers that matter to me say they're giving up, and aren't going to rewrite their code. Many say it wouldn't even be possible with the new architecture, but even if it were possible, they're jumping ship.

Sebastian Zartner

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Mar 30, 2017, 5:03:25 AM3/30/17

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On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 8:06:05 AM UTC+2, San wrote:

One of the linked pages says that Firefox 47 was the last version fully compatible with Firebug. It links to a sourceforge page with "portable" Firefox 47 -- but all the downloadables appear to be .exe files, so useless to me on my Mac.

Then you missed my link (saying "Install an old version of Firefox") to Mozilla's official download server:
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/

There you can find all Firefox versions ever released for all OSes.

GetFirebug.com also seems to mention FF 47 as the cutoff -- it lists Firebug 2.0.17 as working with "Firefox 33-47".

In my archives, I have Mac Firefox installers for 45.3.0 ESR, and for FF 48.0.2, but not for FF 47.x. Will FF 48.0.2 fully work with some version of Firebug? If not, do you happen to know where I can download a safe copy of Mac FF 47? Thanks much.

A quick test indicated that Firefox 50.0 was the version that broke the Script panel, so Firefox 49.x should still work fine.

By the way, regarding "...extensions will still need to be ported to the new architecture in order to continue work"... just about all the extension developers that matter to me say they're giving up, and aren't going to rewrite their code. Many say it wouldn't even be possible with the new architecture, but even if it were possible, they're jumping ship.

It is definitely a huge burden to extension developers, because in most cases they have to rework huge parts of their extensions. By the way, I'm also one of those developers, and I am also sad about that decision. But that discussion is out of the scope of this forum.

Sebastian

fred.h...@gmail.com

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Apr 3, 2017, 9:58:09 AM4/3/17

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It is definitely a huge burden to extension developers, because in most cases they have to rework huge parts of their extensions. By the way, I'm also one of those developers, and I am also sad about that decision. But that discussion is out of the scope of this forum.

Sebastian

That discussion should have been held together with the people that built Mozilla (the developers/designers).

Mozilla made the effort to write a 'migration guide' (how 1998) for a program that should be intuitive, but they neglected to address the very silly and totally avoidable closing/docking button issue of the FF devtools that makes me scared of the beast.

What has changed at Mozilla? Because this is very new to me: From UX inspiration to UX laughing stock within a few weeks. Just because of a few stupid and avoidable mistakes. And my guess is that it has nothing to do with UX'ers or developers but with 'the people in the boardroom'. I don't believe that the developers at Mozilla are pleased with the sloppyness.

Fred

Sebastian Zartner

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Apr 3, 2017, 5:28:21 PM4/3/17

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On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 3:58:09 PM UTC+2, fred.h...@gmail.com wrote:

It is definitely a huge burden to extension developers, because in most cases they have to rework huge parts of their extensions. By the way, I'm also one of those developers, and I am also sad about that decision. But that discussion is out of the scope of this forum.

Sebastian

That discussion should have been held together with the people that built Mozilla (the developers/designers).

Mozilla made the effort to write a 'migration guide' (how 1998)

For your information: The migration guide was mainly written by me, a volunteer contributor to Mozilla (currently mostly working on MDN) and previously to Firebug. I'd also have liked a smoother transition between both tools, though it's better than nothing.

for a program that should be intuitive, but they neglected to address the very silly and totally avoidable closing/docking button issue of the FF devtools that makes me scared of the beast.

As I wrote in the other thread you opened that's fixed in Firefox 55. But yeah, it is a silly issue that should have been recognized and fixed earlier.

Having said that, if you recognize such UX issues, you should file bug reports to let the DevTools team know about them. Or, if you feel up to it, you can even help them to fix the bugs.

Sebastian

Naked Love

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Apr 14, 2017, 6:08:45 AM4/14/17

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Dear Sebastian, I appreciate that you are trying to respond to all the queries and you are being politically correct but whatever it is, its not firebug its dev tools or whatever, what matters is that it really sucks. Firebug was the only reason I used to install Mozilla every time. It used to make you more powerful while doing some development work. All the firebug lovers will agree to that. I just joined a new company and tried to install firebug in my new development machine and what I saw made me go "WHAT THE FUCK!!!!". Please if possible put it back on. Whatever this new shit is, it just sucks. I loved the old firebug it was a simple yet effective tool.

Naked Love

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Apr 14, 2017, 6:08:45 AM4/14/17

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You want me to be specific, I cant be more specific than this "remove this new shit and put the old firebug back on", or let me know where I can get the old version.

Sebastian Zartner

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Apr 15, 2017, 6:20:17 AM4/15/17

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On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 12:08:45 PM UTC+2, Naked Love wrote:

Dear Sebastian, I appreciate that you are trying to respond to all the queries and you are being politically correct but whatever it is, its not firebug its dev tools or whatever, what matters is that it really sucks. Firebug was the only reason I used to install Mozilla every time. It used to make you more powerful while doing some development work. All the firebug lovers will agree to that.

It's great to hear that you love Firebug. So do I. And that's why I advocated for continuing Firebug as a separate extension in the discussions to integrate it into the Firefox DevTools and actually left the team when the decision was made.

Now I'm telling Firebug users to at least give the Firefox DevTools a try. While their UI is still not as good as Firebug's and I am also still missing several features, those tools are way better than their reputation and it's sad for me to see so many people move to Chrome just because Firebug doesn't work anymore. Every tool has it's advantages and disadvantages, be it the Firefox DevTools, Firebug, the Chrome DevTools or any other browser developer tools.

Please if possible put it back on. Whatever this new thing is, it just sucks. I loved the old firebug it was a simple yet effective tool.

With the changes in Firefox regarding multiple processes (aka e10s) and Mozilla's decision to only support WebExtensions starting from Firefox 57, there is just no way that Firebug comes back.

Background:
E10s means separate processes for the browser UI and the website contents, i.e. better performance and stability for the browser, meaning when a page hangs, it doesn't freeze the Firefox UI anymore. Though it also means that extensions are required to use new message-based APIs to access the page's contents. Firebug's code accesses the page's contents directly in many different places, though, which would have required to rewrite the a huge amount of code.
WebExtensions are an established way to write extensions that work cross-browser, i.e. this enables extension developers to write extensions that work in all browsers. While this is good for people that want to write new extensions, existing ones need to be adapted to the new APIs in order to continue to work. Also, WebExtensions have limited access to the browser internals, which makes them safer for users but at the same time doesn't provide the flexibility of existing extensions. Because Firebug is based on extension code (Add-on SDK), which will be deprecated once Firefox 57 is released, this would have meant to basically recreate it from skretch with less functionality.
And the Firebug Working Group - mainly consisting of one full-time programmer and three volunteer contributors spending their free time working on it - simply didn't have the resources to do all that.

Having said all that, you can disable multi-process Firefox to get Firebug to work again temporarily until this feature can't be disabled anymore or Firefox 57 is released (depending on which one comes first).
I've also outlined the alternatives you currently have regarding the Firefox DevTools.

Sebastian

PS: Please refrain from hateful speech! Complaining about the DevTools doesn't bring back Firebug and the DevTools team doesn't follow this thread, anyway, so it's wasted time.

Erik Krause

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Apr 16, 2017, 10:21:14 AM4/16/17

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Am 14.04.2017 um 12:05 schrieb Naked Love:
> You want me to be specific, I cant be more specific than this "remove this
> new shit and put the old firebug back on", or let me know where I can get
> the old version.

Come on, you work in the fastest changing industry in the world. There
is little room for nostalgia and none for being backward. Firebug was
nice and it was the mother of all devtools in all browsers. But it was
far from perfect. No source maps, no remote debugging and that's only
the mayor of a lot of things the devtools do and firebug didn't. Flex
grids are the future and sass development is a snap with devtools. So
move on instead of lamenting about the past. Most of the gaps between
firebug and devtools are already filed as bugs, many of them are fixed.
Lets work together making the devtools great again!

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Erik Krause

Darren G

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Apr 16, 2017, 10:37:31 AM4/16/17

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Been watching this thread. Very unfortunate despite the reasons.

The moral is that whatever API, compatibility, resourcing or other technical justifications its important to understand your users.

People who just browse sure. Don't need firebug but without developers building for Firefox it will die. This dichotomy should never be disrupted for any reason. It destroys the lifeblood of a product community.

At end of day people don't care about extension API this or that. Without firebug no one will write extensions or build compatible websites for Firefox. And that will be the end of it.

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Erik Krause

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Apr 16, 2017, 11:28:00 AM4/16/17

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Am 16.04.2017 um 16:37 schrieb Darren G:
> At end of day people don't care about extension API this or that. Without
> firebug no one will write extensions or build compatible websites for
> Firefox. And that will be the end of it.

When it comes to choose a browser the question should be: "Whom do I
want to give my data?"

Websites should be standards compliant though, _not_ written for a
specific browser...

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Erik Krause

Darren G

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Apr 16, 2017, 11:34:33 AM4/16/17

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Agree. But it's a problem created by the browsers. Not the websites. And it's the world we live in.

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