UI - usability, utility - you tell us!

[Rob Campbell]

Hi Firebuggists,

We're having some discussion about what works and what could be
improved upon in the Firebug UI. Here's an opportunity to vent your
frustration or pet-peeves about what you don't like about the UI. What
do you think should be changed or improved-upon the most? If you have
suggestions on how to improve it, even better.

Thanks!
Rob "pyroentomologist" Campbell

[Rako]

As far as I am concerned, the most important change would be the
Firebug Window itself.
1.) There should be a 3-way option: Always in the same window/Always
in a separate window/Start minimized
2.) when the Firebug window is separate from the actual FireFox
window, it schould be tabbed like Firefox, so that it would appear
just once in the task-bar.
Currently if I am testing some aspect in more then one page (say page-
interconnection) and vave FB in separate windows, there are as many FB-
windows open as tabs being tested. But the problem is: which window
belongs to which tab!!!
This would be solved by the tabbed-FB.

Further features
3.) Function-Trace (see separate discussion)
4.) variable-trace: You could set Trace-Watch for variables so that at
a given break-point you yould see if, when and how it was change.
it could be something like this:
Variable: JS-Function Line# new value
User_Name Update_Cookie 432 Joe Smith
Date_Time Get_Curr_Time 43 20080103121212
Date_Time Get_Curr_Time2 43 20080103152535

This would speed up testing, as you would see when did the variable
get the unexpected value and set the break-point there, instead of
having to step through the functions.


For complex pages:
5.) The list of Libraries should be shown for selection in a separate
window:
Currently sometimes not all libraries are shown in the menu. In a
separate window with its scrollbar you do not have this problem.

6.) Ability to collapse the functions: A kind of Treeview
Only the fully expanded functions could be stepped through. Thus for
these clicking on the Next-Step would go to the function-header, next-
step then would go to the next statement in the calling function.
This would allow the expanding/collapsing if functions at will, and
would make it easier to look through a JS-Library.
It should be possible to collapse all functions with a single click or
to expand all of them.

7.) Ability to assign the function-key to functions line Next-
statement, step-over, step-out, etc.
It would be nice to have some ready-made alternatives like Visual-
Studio, etc

Possibly later I find some more suggestions, but I think these are
enough to start with.

[splintor]

I have several wishes, but is there a reason to use this thread
instead of the issue tracker:
http://code.google.com/p/fbug/issues/list?q=label:ui

splintor

On Oct 2, 3:41 pm, Rob Campbell <robmcampb...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jay Merrifield]

I'd like to see a javascript tab next to the DOM tab that would take
all the user-defined javascript functions and list them there. Would
make locating and managing them much easier.

Jay

[Jay Merrifield]

I'd also like to see an option that would improve the formatting of
compressed javascript files. I'm mainly having issues with javascript
files that have had all carriage returns and indentation removed,
makes adding break points extremely hard.

Jay

[Rako]

If they are your files, then change the editor/uploader not to
compress the javasript files.
If they belong to someone else, whom you cannot ask to give you an
uncompressed version, than you should not play with these.
If there is an error, then report it to the site's webmaster. If you
just want to copy their code without their permission than there is
one word for it.

On Oct 5, 8:39 pm, "Jay Merrifield" <frac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd also like to see an option that would improve the formatting of
> compressed javascript files. I'm mainly having issues with javascript
> files that have had all carriage returns and indentation removed,
> makes adding break points extremely hard.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Jay Merrifield <frac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'd like to see a javascript tab next to the DOM tab that would take
> > all the user-defined javascript functions and list them there. Would
> > make locating and managing them much easier.
>
> > Jay
>

> > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 6:03 AM, splintor <splin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I have several wishes, but is there a reason to use this thread
> >> instead of the issue tracker:
> >>http://code.google.com/p/fbug/issues/list?q=label:ui
>
> >> splintor
>
> >> On Oct 2, 3:41 pm, Rob Campbell <robmcampb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hi Firebuggists,
>
> >>> We're having some discussion about what works and what could be
> >>> improved upon in the Firebug UI. Here's an opportunity to vent your
> >>> frustration or pet-peeves about what you don't like about the UI. What
> >>> do you think should be changed or improved-upon the most? If you have
> >>> suggestions on how to improve it, even better.
>
> >>> Thanks!

> >>> Rob "pyroentomologist" Campbell- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jay Merrifield]

Ya, but if you've already pushed compressed javascript to a production
service, and you want to quickly diagnose a problem, it would be a
nice feature to have instead of wasting some cycles trying to recreate
the problem on a development box with uncompressed javascript.

Jay

[Rako]

You should always keep a copy of the uncompressed file. Then if you
have a problem, just publish, test and change the uncompressed one,
then republish it in the compressed form.
Why should others suffer by having extra coding in FireBug, just
because you are short-sighted?
The developers would also waste their precious time for a fully
superfluous feature. That could also introduce extra errors.
You should not have to waste "extra cycles" if you just replace the
compressed file with the uncompressed one.

> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Rob Campbell]

The issue tracker is for bugs and enhancements, a perfectly valid
place to request features, obviously.

I was more interested in some actual discussion on what people didn't
like about the UI as it stands now. The issue tracker isn't really
conducive to that level of discussion, imo, as it will get triaged and
individual requests might get broken up into several issues.

I'm asking for blue-sky, day-dream quality, what-if suggestions
here. :)

[Rob Campbell]

Hi Rako,

I'll reply in-line as you made a few comments I'd like to address
individually.

On Oct 3, 8:28 am, Rako <mscam...@rakovszky.info> wrote:
> As far as I am concerned, the most important change would be the
> Firebug Window itself.
> 1.) There should be a 3-way option: Always in the same window/Always
> in a separate window/Start minimized

yeah, a preference might be useful here. We should file an issue for
that.

> 2.) when the Firebug window is separate from the actual FireFox
> window, it schould be tabbed like Firefox, so that it would appear
> just once in the task-bar.

a tabbed window? That's an interesting idea. Of course, you can hover
over the window in your task bar and read the tool tip that pops up,
but that requires a lot more hovering and waiting than is useful.

> Currently if I am testing some aspect in more then one page (say page-
> interconnection) and vave FB in separate windows, there are as many FB-
> windows open as tabs being tested. But the problem is: which window
> belongs to which tab!!!
> This would be solved by the tabbed-FB.
>
> Further features
> 3.) Function-Trace (see separate discussion)
> 4.) variable-trace: You could set Trace-Watch for variables so that at
> a given break-point you yould see if, when and how it was change.
> it could be something like this:
> Variable: JS-Function  Line#  new value
> User_Name  Update_Cookie 432   Joe Smith
> Date_Time  Get_Curr_Time  43   20080103121212
> Date_Time  Get_Curr_Time2  43   20080103152535
>
> This would speed up testing, as you would see when did the variable
> get the unexpected value and set the break-point there, instead of
> having to step through the functions.

also an interesting suggestion. I bet we'd have to make some
modifications to the JSD layer in Spidermonkey though.

> For complex pages:
> 5.) The list of Libraries should be shown for selection in a separate
> window:
> Currently sometimes not all libraries are shown in the menu. In a
> separate window with its scrollbar you do not have this problem.

or, if you've got firebug open in a separate window, maybe a sidebar
panel listing all of the files similar to various text editors'
Project view.

> 6.) Ability to collapse the functions: A kind of Treeview

Folding in the script editor. This would be nice too. I use that a
fair bit in my usual text editor of choice TextMate.

> Only the fully expanded functions could be stepped through. Thus for
> these clicking on the Next-Step would go to the function-header, next-
> step then would go to the next statement in the calling function.
> This would allow the expanding/collapsing if functions at will, and
> would make it easier to look through a JS-Library.
> It should be possible to collapse all functions with a single click or
> to expand all of them.
>
> 7.) Ability to assign the function-key to functions line Next-
> statement, step-over, step-out, etc.
> It would be nice to have some ready-made alternatives like Visual-
> Studio, etc

Yeah, I think there's a bug on file for this (or at least a separate
discussion, re: keycommand?). Many of the current default assignments
conflict with other applications. Having a keyboard preferences editor
would be very useful.

> Possibly later I find some more suggestions, but I think these are
> enough to start with.

Great suggestions! Thanks.

[Rob Campbell]

This is not a bad idea, though if you're using one of the popular JS
libraries on your website, many of them have minified versions and
development versions which are easier to use. Not that you always have
the option on sites not under your direct control...

Some extra JS pretty-printing would come in handy. +1

On Oct 5, 3:39 pm, "Jay Merrifield" <frac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd also like to see an option that would improve the formatting of
> compressed javascript files. I'm mainly having issues with javascript
> files that have had all carriage returns and indentation removed,
> makes adding break points extremely hard.
>
> Jay
>

> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Jay Merrifield <frac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'd like to see a javascript tab next to the DOM tab that would take
> > all the user-defined javascript functions and list them there. Would
> > make locating and managing them much easier.
>
> > Jay
>