Linux x86 build for FB 6

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

Hi!

I'm updating Linux docker build to use GCC 13.2.

This looks simple for x64, arm32 and arm64.

But it already showed some problems to do for x86, as i386/ubuntu docker
image stuck in 18.04.

It may be possible to use different strategy (as the arm ones with qemu
together with the x64 image), but I want to be sure: we will going to
continue supporting Linux (FWIW here) x86?


Adriano

[Alex Peshkoff]

It's time to stop with it. 20 years ago we never thought about providing
16-bit 80286 builds (for SCO Xenix for example), and today 32-bit linux
is relatively even more ancient relict.

[Mark Rotteveel]

As a data point (from
https://api.github.com/repos/FirebirdSQL/firebird/releases), the
Firebird-5.0.0.1306-0-linux-x86.tar.gz artifact was download 444 times
from GitHub, which is about the same as the 440 times of
Firebird-5.0.0.1306-0-linux-arm64.tar.gz, but a lot less than the 2720
of Firebird-5.0.0.1306-0-linux-x64.tar.gz.

Personally, I don't see a problem of it going away, but people do still
use it.

Maybe instead we should consider switching from Ubuntu to Debian, which
does still offer linux/386 Docker images (see
https://hub.docker.com/_/debian/tags)

Mark
--
Mark Rotteveel

[Alex Peshkoff]

On 4/17/24 12:46, 'Mark Rotteveel' via firebird-devel wrote:
> On 17/04/2024 03:07, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
>> I'm updating Linux docker build to use GCC 13.2.
>>
>> This looks simple for x64, arm32 and arm64.
>>
>> But it already showed some problems to do for x86, as i386/ubuntu docker
>> image stuck in 18.04.
>>
>> It may be possible to use different strategy (as the arm ones with qemu
>> together with the x64 image), but I want to be sure: we will going to
>> continue supporting Linux (FWIW here) x86?
>
> As a data point (from
> https://api.github.com/repos/FirebirdSQL/firebird/releases), the
> Firebird-5.0.0.1306-0-linux-x86.tar.gz artifact was download 444 times
> from GitHub, which is about the same as the 440 times of
> Firebird-5.0.0.1306-0-linux-arm64.tar.gz, but a lot less than the 2720
> of Firebird-5.0.0.1306-0-linux-x64.tar.gz.
>

Suppose >99% of that 444 installations are done on x64 linux, probably
some people later replace it with correct one later (for SS 4Gb limit is
very restrictive for big DBs).
Next, x86_64/x64/amd64 is currently often referenced as just x86.
Starting with linux kernel - resulting binary bzImage is built in
/usr/src/linux/arch/x86/boot, /usr/src/linux/arch/x86_64/boot contains
only symlink to it. That's more or like we do not call 32-bit binaries
x686, just x86, though it certainly can not run on plain 8086. I.e. many
users are sure they download correctly chosen binary but get not what
they really need.

[Mark Rotteveel]

On 17/04/2024 12:24, Alex Peshkoff wrote:
> Suppose >99% of that 444 installations are done on x64 linux, probably
> some people later replace it with correct one later (for SS 4Gb limit is
> very restrictive for big DBs).
> Next, x86_64/x64/amd64 is currently often referenced as just x86.
> Starting with linux kernel - resulting binary bzImage is built in
> /usr/src/linux/arch/x86/boot, /usr/src/linux/arch/x86_64/boot contains
> only symlink to it. That's more or like we do not call 32-bit binaries
> x686, just x86, though it certainly can not run on plain 8086. I.e. many
> users are sure they download correctly chosen binary but get not what
> they really need.

That is also possible, especially as the download pages on
firebirdsql.org still list x86 before x64...

Mark
--
Mark Rotteveel

[Jiří Činčura]

> today 32-bit linux
> is relatively even more ancient relict.

Seconded.

We could, maybe, start talking about Windows 32-bit builds. Especially as UDFs are sunsetting, I don't see much value in doing those as well.

--
Mgr. Jiří Činčura
https://www.tabsoverspaces.com/

[Vlad Khorsun]

18.04.2024 11:24, Jiří Činčura:

>> today 32-bit linux
>> is relatively even more ancient relict.
>
> Seconded.
>
> We could, maybe, start talking about Windows 32-bit builds. Especially as UDFs are sunsetting, I don't see much value in doing those as well.
>

There is still a lot of Win32 (32-bit) applications.

Regards,
Vlad

[liviuslivius]

32bit client is a must but 32bit server is rather ancient thing with one exception, but only on Windows as there is embeded server.

Regards,

Karol Bieniaszewski

-------- Oryginalna wiadomość --------

Od: Vlad Khorsun <fbv...@gmail.com>

Data: 18.04.2024 11:12 (GMT+01:00)

Do: firebir...@googlegroups.com

Temat: Re: [firebird-devel] Linux x86 build for FB 6

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[Vlad Khorsun]

18.04.2024 12:54, 'liviuslivius' via firebird-devel:

> 32bit client is a must but 32bit server is rather ancient thing with one exception, but only on Windows as there is embeded server.

We do 32-bit build or not, it does not matter if one will use just client or full server

Regards,
Vlad

[marius adrian popa]

Related to debian and x86 

"Debian users will still be able to install a 32-bit userland, run 32-bit Debian inside various types of container, and build applications for x86-32… but you can expect that the x86 version of Debian 13 "Trixie", which is planned for 2025, will only support 64-bit hardware."

https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/19/debian_to_drop_x86_32/

Also 32bit versions of games are still needed for steam on ubuntu even if the host os is x64

https://popey.com/blog/2023/08/i386-in-ubuntu-wont-die/

https://www.theregister.com/2019/06/24/steam_wine_ubuntu_32_bit/

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[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

On 17/04/2024 06:46, 'Mark Rotteveel' via firebird-devel wrote:
>
> Personally, I don't see a problem of it going away, but people do still
> use it.
>
> Maybe instead we should consider switching from Ubuntu to Debian, which
> does still offer linux/386 Docker images (see
> https://hub.docker.com/_/debian/tags)
>

That was a good idea, thanks! It seems to fix the problem I was having.

My opinion on the subj is that if it's not making things harder, I think
it can still live.

Because it's not a matter of 32 bit compatible code, as it seems we
still be supporting android x86 and windows x86, if linux x86 still
works with fresh compiler, I'd like to have it still active.


Adriano

[Dimitry Sibiryakov]

Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote 18.04.2024 13:54:
> Because it's not a matter of 32 bit compatible code, as it seems we
> still be supporting android x86 and windows x86, if linux x86 still
> works with fresh compiler, I'd like to have it still active.

May be you just need to use multiarch compiler and -32 switch during build?

--
WBR, SD.

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

We build fresh gcc and very old libc.

That is what makes things not so simple.


Adriano

[Alex Peshkoff]

On 4/18/24 15:00, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
> We build fresh gcc and very old libc.

BTW, suppose we should increase that versions (and binutils certainly
too) for FB6 to something newer. At least that was always done before.

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

Em 18/04/24 14:19, Alex Peshkoff escreveu:

Updating to 2.40.

Except for ARM64, that for some reason is stuck in 2.29.1 in crosstool-ng.


Adriano

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

Em 18/04/24 18:15, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes escreveu:

>
> Em 18/04/24 14:19, Alex Peshkoff escreveu:
>> On 4/18/24 15:00, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
>>> We build fresh gcc and very old libc.
>>
>> BTW, suppose we should increase that versions (and binutils certainly
>> too) for FB6 to something newer. At least that was always done before.
>>
>>
> Updating to 2.40.
>

I mean binutils.

I'm not changing libc version. What version you think we should use?


Adriano

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

On 18/04/2024 18:15, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
>
> Except for ARM64, that for some reason binutils is stuck in 2.29.1 in crosstool-ng.
>

That is limited by glibc version (2.19).

When set glibc to 2.26, then binutils can be set to 2.40 in arm64.


Adriano

[James Starkey]

For the record, JRD was bootstraped on a borrowed DEC Pro-350, a 16 bit PDP-11.  But as soon as I was able to wrangle an Apollo DN300, a 68K based workstation, 16 bit development ceased.

Jim Starkey

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[Alex Peshkoff]

On 4/19/24 03:53, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
> On 18/04/2024 18:15, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
>> Except for ARM64, that for some reason binutils is stuck in 2.29.1 in crosstool-ng.
>>
> That is limited by glibc version (2.19).
>
> When set glibc to 2.26,

Supported by Debian 10 / Centos 8.5. I doubt fb6 should be run on
something older.

BTW, both actually contain 2.28 - may be we should use it?

[Adriano dos Santos Fernandes]

Agreed and done.


Adriano