Re: Peckinpah - The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970)

[Kasper Lauritzen]

I have no idea if this mailing list is still open... nor if anyone
wants to hear me picking up a more than 10 year old discussion. But
I've begun watching Sam Peckinpah's filmography chronologically these
last few days, and reading all of your reviews and comments has been
both enjoyable and insightful!

What brought me to reply, was actually Jake's original comment. I've
just watched "The Ballad of Cable Hogue" for the first time, and I was
really taken with it.

Along with "Ride The Country High", this has been my favorite
Peckinpah so far. I thought "Deadly Companions" was mediocre, and
"Major Dundee" was confusing. "The Wild Bunch" has some AMAZING
scenes, especially after the robbery, but as a whole I thought it
missed something. Again, I can only praise "The Wild Bunch" for it's
action, but as an epic (as I perceive it) it lacks some depth.

All that aside, how can I be taken with this silly western comedy?

Well, I guess for the same reason I was taken with "Ride the High
Country". As soon as the love story started in that one, I was
absorbed with it, and I think "Cable Hogue" displays the same
humanism. Both films hint at a very fixed plot goal (bringing home the
gold in "Ride", and taking revenge in "Cable"), yet both of them
negotiates and finally declines what they set out to do.

In "Ride", the young man is even told by the old cowboys not to pay
attention to the woman and follow his duty, but in the end (** mild
spoilers **) the climax is centered on her return to the farm, and
nobody even cares about bringing back the goal.

The symbol of the "old cowboy dying" at the end of both of them is
pretty obvious here, but what is coming? Modern industrial society?
The postmodern western? Or the new wave of Hollywood?

While "Ride" and "Major Dundee" are still in the classic style and
tradition of the western, and "The Wild Bunch" is, at least, western
post-Leone, I think "Cable Hogue" is the first film of Peckinpah's
that to me seems modern - it's experimenting with transitions, split
screens, fast and slow motion, and multiple exposures. It even has a
scene with the camera repeatedly drifting towards Hildy's tits, and
the money blinking to Cable as he's considering to buy some time with
her. It recalls the lustiest moments of Billy Wilder, full of warmth
and humor.

I was actually sorry to read that a couple of you were turned off by
these "tricks". To me, it was more an expression of personal style and
humanism in Peckinpah's work than cheap tricks. But it IS hard to
understand that this is the same man who did "Straw Dogs"!!

Regarding the ending (SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY), I was first annoyed when it
dragged out and EVERYBODY suddenly came back to see Cable, only to
have him run over by a car. But I thought the "jump cut" (for lack of
better word) where the reverend's speech cuts from the scene in the
bed to Hildy and everybody in funeral clothes made it work for me.
Everything seemed over the top unbelievable, and suddenly it all feels
like a dream with the epitaph reading: "He found this water where it
wasn't."

Well, I hope I'll see more Peckinpah this weekend, and maybe I get
back with more age old spam to you all.

Really miss these discussions, and I hope you're all doing good out there!

Kasper

2010-09-06 5:44 GMT+02.00, Thorkell A. Ottarsson <thor...@gmail.com>:
> Thanks. I see we are on the same page here Nick.
>
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 3:11 AM, Nick Faust <talkm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Thorkell, you asked me about BALLAD OF CABLE HOGUE a week ago and I
>> missed
>> it.
>> I think it's a film that Sam wanted to make and felt strongly about. He
>> experiments with a story telling method that melds his hot and dusty old
>> west with the broad and didactic style of a fable. Within this
>> juxtaposition we get the Peckinpah point of view. I think it was good
>> that
>> he got to work that style out for himself, but the broadness does not
>> work
>> for me. Peckinpah tries his hand at comedy and the supple, light touch
>> needed to accomplish what I think is meant to be whimsical comes off
>> lumpy
>> and even at times condescending.
>> That said, there are wonderful moments that come to life. Even though we
>> may
>> see the joke that misses by a mile, we inevitably sense a kind of truth
>> beneath the stylistic facade. Just the sight of Stella Stevens next to
>> Jason
>> Robards is stylization enough. Even though they look incredibly
>> mismatched,
>> it becomes clear that they aren't. David Warner turns that stupid role
>> into
>> something unexpected. Warner and Peckinpah evidently worked well together
>> -
>> some of the actor's best word happens in Sam's movies. And how can we
>> discuss CABLE HOGUE without mentioning Strother Martin? I mean, just
>> mentioning the name, Strother Martin, is usually enough, but here we get
>> to
>> say, Strother Martin and the rattle snakes! Now, if you were acting in a
>> movie shooting in the desert and the director said, for this scene you
>> get
>> into that pit over there and we're going to pelt you with live rattle
>> snakes, what would you do? Well, we see what Strother Martin did and it
>> just blows my mind! I wonder how many times they shot that scene?
>> Nick
>>> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:53:41 +0200
>>> Subject: Re: Peckinpah - The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970)
>>> From: thor...@gmail.com
>>> To: film...@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> "I think it had something to do with horses that were used in battle
>>> during World War I"
>>>
>>> Sounds like the film Spielberg is making now:
>>>
>>> War Horse (2011)
>>> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568911/
>>>
>>> It is based on a book published in 1982.
>>>
>>> But what did you think of The Ballad of Cable Hogue Nick?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Nick Faust <talkm...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Budd Boetticher wrote the original script that TWO MULES FOR SISTER
>>> > SARA
>>> > was based on. Originally, it was to star Clint and Elizabeth Taylor,
>>> > who
>>> > Clint got chummy with during the making of WHERE EAGLES DARE (or as
>>> > Clint
>>> > calls it, "where stunt doubles dare.") Siegel was always slated to
>>> > direct.
>>> > Somewhere along the way Taylor ditched and Shirley Maclaine took
>>> > over.
>>> > Am
>>> > fairly certain the script, which Boetticher thought had been watered
>>> > down,
>>> > reflected changes made for Taylor. By the time it went in front of the
>>> > camera, the story's initial impulse had been so distorted no one was
>>> > really
>>> > happy with the result. Not terrible. But certainly not the best of any
>>> > of
>>> > their work.
>>> > It's been a while since I actually saw it, but Boetticher was
>>> > particularly
>>> > pissed off by some sort of change that happened toward the end. In an
>>> > interview just before he died, he said Siegel apologized for the mess
>>> > he
>>> > made of the original script.
>>> > Boetticher was an interesting man. After dropping out of movie
>>> > making,
>>> > he
>>> > spent something like thirty or forty years raising horses on his
>>> > California
>>> > ranch. He lived well into his eighties and continued to doctor scripts
>>> > for
>>> > other directors and write his own. The year he died, he went to
>>> > Germany
>>> > to
>>> > find funding for a movie he wanted to make. Can't remember what it was
>>> > about, exactly, but I think it had something to do with horses that
>>> > were
>>> > used in battle during World War I. My source for this information is
>>> > Roger
>>> > McBain of the Evansville Press and Mick Steler, the owner of Showplace
>>> > Cinemas in Evansville. Boetticher was from there. Family ties brought
>>> > him
>>> > back now and then.
>>> > His main body of work is a series of westerns he wrote and directed
>>> > throughout the fifties with Randolph Scott. Considered by many to be
>>> > stripped down classic films, there seem to be an equal number who
>>> > hate
>>> > them. Boetticher's style was spare, with an intense focus on action
>>> > that
>>> > implied psychology. His good guys are often not completely heroic, and
>>> > his
>>> > villains are never depicted as completely bad. Sergeo Leone always
>>> > counted
>>> > Boetticher as his number one influence. Sure enough, when you watch
>>> > the
>>> > Randolph movies, entire sequences found their way into Leone's work.
>>> > Interesting because Boetticher really was Sergeo's antithesis.
>>> > Nick
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________
>>> > Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:31:56 -0500
>>> > Subject: Re: Peckinpah - The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970)
>>> > From: wisej...@gmail.com
>>> > To: film...@googlegroups.com
>>> >
>>> > I've seen part of Two Mules on TV before. I remember being pretty
>>> > indifferent to it, but not bad. Maybe I'll give it a chance sometime.
>>> > Have
>>> > you seen The Ballad of Cable Hogue?
>>> >
>>> > -Jake
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Bobby Beksinski
>>> > <BBeks...@hotmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hey Jake, you say The Ballad of Cable Hogue is the only good western
>>> > comedy you ever saw? Im just curious, have you ever saw "Two Mules For
>>> > Sister Sara" directed by Don Siegel and starring Clint Eastwood and
>>> > Shirley MacClaine I think? lol, anyway I dont know if alot of people
>>> > actually like that movie, it has a so so rating on IMDB, but being aM
>>> > greatest westerns. So I would definantly classify 2 Mules as a western
>>> > comedy, just wondering if you saw that one and if you liked/disliked
>>> > it?
>>> >
>>> > On Aug 27, 12:37 am, Jake Fredel <wisejake...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> Well I thought over my initial rating of the film and I may have over
>>> >> praised. Thought about the film overall and looked back at some
>>> >> parts,
>>> >> including the ending, and it's definitely flawed in some parts. I
>>> >> still
>>> >> think it's great, and maybe a *near-*masterpiece, but I was a little
>>> >> hasty
>>> >> on my original assessment. I change my rating to a 9/10 (this was
>>> >> also
>>> >> reflected on my blog). Also just rewatched Straw Dogs and I'm reeling
>>> >> from
>>> >> it. More on that...
>>> >>
>>> >> -Jake
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Bobby Beksinski
>>> >> <BBeksin...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > Well I just watched the ballad of cable hogue and I have to agree
>>> >> > with
>>> >> > Thorkell on this one. It was a very fun and entertaining film, and
>>> >> > some of the dialogue was hilarious. But I agree the scenes that
>>> >> > were
>>> >> > sped up gave it that screwball comedy feeling to it which pushed
>>> >> > the
>>> >> > movie into too many different directions. And I also disliked the
>>> >> > ending, SPOILERS.. not when the two men come back and Hogue exacts
>>> >> > his
>>> >> > revenge, which i felt very intriguing, but after HIldy comes back
>>> >> > in
>>> >> > the car, Everything after that seems like a ending pulled out of
>>> >> > Sam's
>>> >> > ass, like he thought of it on a whim. i gave it a 7/10 as well
>>> >>
>>> >> > On Aug 26, 11:14 am, "Thorkell A. Ottarsson" <thork...@gmail.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> > > Well I just saw The Ballad of Cable Hogue again. It is a fine
>>> >> > > film
>>> >> > > but
>>> >> > > I don't think it is the masterpice you (and some others) consider
>>> >> > > it
>>> >> > > to be Jake. I do like the preacher and some of the dialog is
>>> >> > > really
>>> >> > > funny ("Did it ever occur to you, Cable, how wise and bountiful
>>> >> > > God
>>> >> > > was to put breasts on a woman? Just the right number in just the
>>> >> > > right
>>> >> > > place. Did you ever notice that, Cable?").
>>> >>
>>> >> > > I have trouble with the fast scenes, the music and how the story
>>> >> > > kind
>>> >> > > of falls apart in the end. And yes Jason Robards was great in the
>>> >> > > film. Really great! 7/10.
>>> >>
>>> >> > > Thorkell
>>> >>
>>> >> > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Thorkell A. Ottarsson
>>> >>
>>> >> > > <thork...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > > > I still have two films to watch again, and this is one of them.
>>> >> > > > I
>>> >> > > > will
>>> >> > > > revisit it and comment :)
>>> >>
>>> >> > > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 6:28 AM, Jake Fredel
>>> >> > > > <wisejake...@gmail.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> > > >> I feel this movie is a masterpiece, and I'm surprised no one
>>> >> > > >> commented
>>> >> > on it
>>> >> > > >> this month (especially Thorkell, who appeared to watch every
>>> >> > > >> other
>>> >> > movie but
>>> >> > > >> this one). Sam Peckinpah himself felt that this was his best
>>> >> > > >> film,
>>> >> > > >> and
>>> >> > I
>>> >> > > >> don't think he was that far off (although I think its second
>>> >> > > >> to
>>> >> > > >> Straw
>>> >> > Dogs,
>>> >> > > >> and I haven't watched The Wild Bunch yet). It's pretty much
>>> >> > > >> the
>>> >> > > >> only
>>> >> > good
>>> >> > > >> western-comedy I've ever seen: funny, moving, and sublime,
>>> >> > > >> featuring
>>> >> > great
>>> >> > > >> cinematography and Jason Robards giving probably his best
>>> >> > > >> performance
>>> >> > as
>>> >> > > >> Cable Hogue. Watching him act in this movie makes me wish I
>>> >> > > >> could
>>> >> > > >> see
>>> >> > Noon
>>> >> > > >> Wine. Joshua, the reverend of 'the church of his own
>>> >> > > >> revelation'
>>> >> > > >> is
>>> >> > > >> hilarious, especially the scenes which show his brand of
>>> >> > > >> "consoling"
>>> >> > women.
>>> >> > > >> The main plot device that should motivate the film is Hogue
>>> >> > > >> wanting
>>> >> > > >> to
>>> >> > get
>>> >> > > >> revenge on his former partners, who left him to die without
>>> >> > > >> water
>>> >> > > >> in
>>> >> > the
>>> >> > > >> desert. But what becomes the driving force of the film is the
>>> >> > > >> tender
>>> >> > romance
>>> >> > > >> between Hogue and Hildy, the prostitute who becomes the love
>>> >> > > >> of
>>> >> > > >> his
>>> >> > life. I
>>> >> > > >> think the people who call Sam a misogynist sadist or whatever
>>> >> > > >> should
>>> >> > check
>>> >> > > >> out the way this relationship is portrayed in the film,
>>> >> > > >> because
>>> >> > > >> it
>>> >> > pretty
>>> >> > > >> firmly disproves that theory. Anyway, I think this movie
>>> >> > > >> contains a
>>> >> > great
>>> >> > > >> cast, incredible script, and paints Sam's definitive picture
>>> >> > > >> of
>>> >> > > >> the
>>> >> > fading
>>> >> > > >> Old West. 10/10
>>> >> > > >> And at least it's not based on a song! Despite what the title
>>> >> > > >> might
>>> >> > > >> suggest...
>>> >> > > >> -Jake
>>> >>
>>> >> > > > --
>>> >> > > > Með kærri kveðju,
>>> >> > > > Þorkell Ágúst Óttarsson
>>> >>
>>> >> > > > _____________________________________________
>>> >> > > > Sokkaveien 1
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>>> >> > > Þorkell Ágúst Óttarsson
>>> >>
>>> >> > > _____________________________________________
>>> >> > > Sokkaveien 1
>>> >> > > Drammen 3018
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>>> Með kærri kveðju,
>>> Þorkell Ágúst Óttarsson
>>>
>>> _____________________________________________
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>>> Norway
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Með kærri kveðju,
> Þorkell Ágúst Óttarsson
>
> _____________________________________________
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> Norway
> Tel: 00-47-32835774 & 00-47-45859097
>