11th Circuit Ruling
Vern Humphrey
JL> DC> There is a writ of law that is rarely presented to a jury by most
JL> DC> judges, at any level.
JL> DC> It's called "jury nullification".
JL>I am familiar with it, and agree with the idea of it. Problem is, if the
JL>state appeals to (eventually) the SC, there is no jury. At that point,
JL>it is strictly judging the law, not the defendant.
Except there is no appeal from jury nullification -- in nullification,
the jury finds a defendant not guilty, and that's the end of the case.
-!-
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ 1:170/302.2)
*----- GratisNet - Tulsa, OK -----*
FRANK SCHEIDT
-=> Quoting God Dan to Frank Scheidt <=-
GD> Now, if you have the cajones, why not ask Michael Gothreau if
GD> he really means to kill you.
FS> Anyone would be *foolish* to agitate a potential killer in
FS> that way ...
GD> Which is why I try not to get you mad. And, I do mean 'mad' and
GD> not 'angry'.
Don't worry, Dan, you'd not succeed in *either* area ... heh
heh heh ... the prime emotion you arouse in me is pity --
just pity ... [sigh] ...
Joe Lafoon
While Gary Braswell gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL>So far, anyway. I hate to think about nuclear war, scares me to death.
GB> One night I was awoken by a huge roar and bright light streaming
GB> through the window. It was so powerful I thought maybe Norfolk had been
GB> hit with nukes and we were at war.
GB> I can't describe the feeling of sheer terror.
I would have been vaporized, I think you get the better end of the
bargain...
GB> It turned out to be a police chopper at treetop level looking for a
GB> perp.
You sure they weren't looking for you? <G>
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. Avoid "off-topic" warnings: Add the moderator to your twitlist!
Joe Lafoon
While Dan Ceppa gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> If it wasn't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers.
DC> That happened when lawyers learned that they could make a good
DC> living by obfuscating the facts and getting paid from both
DC> sides of the issue, win or lose.
Like I told Mimi a while back, the lawyers already DO own the whole
system, but the CPAs are covering it up for them. :-)
DC> ... If it wasn't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers. -- JLafoon
I can't claim the quote, I stole the tagline elsewhere. <G>
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. Borg starter kit. Some assimilation required.
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Vern Humphrey to Bob Ackley <=-
BA> VH> If you can't get exactly what you want in a candidate, you have to
BA> VH> choose the one closest to your values who can win.
BA>There *aren't* any who come close to my values, and the only apparent
BA>qualification they have for public office is a pulse.
BA>Some choice we get, a Democrook or a Republicrook; doesn't really matter
VH> whi
BA>one wins, either way we get a crook.
VH> It does matter -- by voting for the lesser of two evils, you
VH> eventually shape the politics of the country.
While Bush and Gore might be alike in some way
that Bob doesn't like, they are unalike in
other significant ways.
Ed
.. Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Bob Sakowski to All <=-
>BW> VH> True, except YOU don't get to choose the Justices. Which is why
>BW> VH> we don't want a wild-eyed liberal in office for the next eight
>BW> VH> years.
>BW>It's why I don't want a darling of the screwball radical right in
>BW>that office ... ever.
>Actually, you've GOT the darling of the screwball radical left in office
>right now. :-)
BS> If you check the history of the court, judges appointed to the SC
BS> quite frequently conduct themselves quite differently from the manner
BS> with which they acted in their previous position, at the confirmation
BS> hearings, or both. Something about becoming a member of that august
BS> body lends itself to them rethinking their ideology as regards the law.
Are you thinking of, among others, Warren and Blackmon? <g>
Ed
.. A day without sunshine is like....night!
Tim Richardson
VH>.PID: OLMS 2000 [RBGCD933]
VH>.MSGID: 1:170/302.0 0c4f66b7
VH>CD>VH->Actually, you've GOT the darling of the screwball radical left in off
VH>CD>VH->right now. :-)
VH>CD> In the rape case just decided by the Court re Federalization of
VH>CD> rape law, Souter said Congress could make the law underthe
VH>CD> commerce clause as rape was economic.
VH>If I hadn't read it here, I wouldn't believe it. :-)
Amazing ain't it? (Utterly amazing.)
* SLMR 2.1a * "And your children, too"......Michael R. Gothreau
Tim Richardson
-> -> On 01 Jun 00 17:16:00, Tim Richardson got back to God Dan
-> GD>Now, if you have the cajones, why not ask Michael Gothreau if
-> GD>he really means to kill you.
-> TR> It isn't what the person who makes the threat *says*
-> TR> was intended ex post facto, it is what the `target'
-> Intent still has to be shown.
-> TR> On a more serious note: *This* is the `Political' Echo
-> TR> and not `Holysmoke'. *You* are one of the `smokers' over
-> TR> there on that Echo. I do not wish to discuss here, anything
-> TR> we are discussing over there.
-> That's right Tim, run and hide. After all, it was you that
-> brought the topic up, not me. Now, do your best to scream
-> "Off Topic" to prevent discusion of your "report".
You are a coward and a worthless individual. Yet I do not
`twit' you because to do so would only give you a `token' victory. In
fact, I even `talk' to you here on this Echo.
Typing threats and challenges from the safety of a computer monitor
is not exactly the last word in courage. What I choose to type or not to
type is not under `your' control and never will be. By the way, if you
ever get to the San Diego area please let me know you are coming in
advance. I will be glad to make you welcome, here.
Now you have a real nice day.
Dan Ceppa
-> On 02 Jun 00 13:09:00, Jeff Binkley got back to Michael Gothreau
MG>I'll be taking the liberty of cross-posting this to HOLYSMOKE where
MG>everyone already knows exactly what you are. Hey, an eye for an
JB> And why don't you go back to HOLYSMOKE and stay there ? This
JB> continual bringing HOLYSMOKE arguments over here is ridiculous. I am
Jeff, did it ever occur to you that it was Tim Richardson that
posted about it in here in the first place?
I didn't post it here. Neither did Michael.
Now, try yelling at Tim, the real culprit.
.. "All 'true Christians' die stupid.": Styx
Vern Humphrey
TR>VH>.PID: OLMS 2000 [RBGCD933]
TR>VH>.MSGID: 1:170/302.0 0c4f66b7
TR>VH>CD>VH->Actually, you've GOT the darling of the screwball radical left in
TR>off
TR>VH>CD>VH->right now. :-)
TR>VH>CD> In the rape case just decided by the Court re Federalization o
TR>VH>CD> rape law, Souter said Congress could make the law underthe
TR>VH>CD> commerce clause as rape was economic.
TR>VH>If I hadn't read it here, I wouldn't believe it. :-)
TR> Amazing ain't it? (Utterly amazing.)
Did we follow a white rabbit down a hole or something? :-)
-!-
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ 561-364-9249 (1:3609/80)
Vern Humphrey
EC> BA>Some choice we get, a Democrook or a Republicrook; doesn't really matter
EC> VH> whi
EC> BA>one wins, either way we get a crook.
EC> VH> It does matter -- by voting for the lesser of two evils, you
EC> VH> eventually shape the politics of the country.
EC>While Bush and Gore might be alike in some way
EC>that Bob doesn't like, they are unalike in
EC>other significant ways.
You bet they are -- for one thing, Bush hasn't publicly said he will
appoint judges to bend the Constitution out of recognition.
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.98)
Michael Gothreau
On 06-04-00, TIM RICHARDSON said to GOD DAN:
-> -> On 01 Jun 00 17:16:00, Tim Richardson got back to God Dan
-> GD>Now, if you have the cajones, why not ask Michael Gothreau if
-> GD>he really means to kill you.
-> TR> It isn't what the person who makes the threat *says*
-> TR> was intended ex post facto, it is what the `target'
-> Intent still has to be shown.
-> TR> On a more serious note: *This* is the `Political' Echo
-> TR> and not `Holysmoke'. *You* are one of the `smokers' over
-> TR> there on that Echo. I do not wish to discuss here, anything
-> TR> we are discussing over there.
-> That's right Tim, run and hide. After all, it was you that
-> brought the topic up, not me. Now, do your best to scream
-> "Off Topic" to prevent discusion of your "report".
TR>You are a coward and a worthless individual. Yet I do not
TR>`twit' you because to do so would only give you a `token' victory. In
TR>fact, I even `talk' to you here on this Echo.
TR>Typing threats and challenges from the safety of a computer monitor
TR>is not exactly the last word in courage. What I choose to type or not to
TR>type is not under `your' control and never will be. By the way, if you
TR>ever get to the San Diego area please let me know you are coming in
TR>advance. I will be glad to make you welcome, here.
TR>Now you have a real nice day.
How odd.
You could not handle the very hard questions put to you in HOLYSMOKE so you
ran back over here to call people cowards.
You refuse to answer my questions of why you brought my words here for
discussion and you call people cowards.
It must be an interesting world that you live in. It isn't this world.
I've been observing your other conversations over here. No wonder you tried
HOLYSMOKE. No wonder you failed, miserably.
You don't really have the right to be calling other people cowards, Tim. Your
fears are too well known.
Everyone knows there are no militant homosexuals in San Diego ;)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael R. Gothreau
.."Fear is only another form of awareness..." - Charles Manson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael R. Gothreau, Pastor - Church of The Telecaster
..Ask every question. Question every answer.
-!-
*Durango b211 * zap
Joe Lafoon
While Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL>Russia and China have been buddy-buddy lately, I am not as optimistic.
VH> China and Russia are NEVER buddy-buddy. In the end, they are natural
VH> opponents.
They have reached a few agreements lately, it can only get better.
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. One cannot assemble a militia from an unarmed populace.
Joe Lafoon
While Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL>I am familiar with it, and agree with the idea of it. Problem is, if the
JL>state appeals to (eventually) the SC, there is no jury. At that point,
JL>it is strictly judging the law, not the defendant.
VH> Except there is no appeal from jury nullification -- in nullification,
VH> the jury finds a defendant not guilty, and that's the end of the case.
Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. Armadillo (n.) - Nature's failed attempt to traffic-proof the possum.
Tim Richardson
-> TR>VH>.PID: OLMS 2000 [RBGCD933]
-> TR>VH>.MSGID: 1:170/302.0 0c4f66b7
-> TR>VH>CD>VH->Actually, you've GOT the darling of the screwball radical left
in
-> TR>off
-> TR>VH>CD>VH->right now. :-)
-> TR>VH>CD> In the rape case just decided by the Court re
Federalization o
-> TR>VH>CD> rape law, Souter said Congress could make the law underthe
-> TR>VH>CD> commerce clause as rape was economic.
-> TR>VH>If I hadn't read it here, I wouldn't believe it. :-)
-> TR> Amazing ain't it? (Utterly amazing.)
-> Did we follow a white rabbit down a hole or something? :-)
I *thought* I heard someone shout "off with `er head!"
Gary Braswell
JL>While Gary Braswell gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> JL>So far, anyway. I hate to think about nuclear war, scares me to death.
JL> GB> One night I was awoken by a huge roar and bright light streaming
JL> GB> through the window. It was so powerful I thought maybe Norfolk had been
JL> GB> hit with nukes and we were at war.
JL> GB> I can't describe the feeling of sheer terror.
JL>I would have been vaporized, I think you get the better end of the
JL>bargain...
I don't think so. Remember the Tina Turner song for Mad Max Beyond
Thunder Dome? The living would envy the dead.
JL> GB> It turned out to be a police chopper at treetop level looking for a
JL> GB> perp.
JL>You sure they weren't looking for you? <G>
They found me, nekkid and looking up at them from my bedroom window.<g>
-!-
ž OLXWin 1.00b ž I feel much better since I gave up hope!
Vern Humphrey
JL>While Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> JL>I am familiar with it, and agree with the idea of it. Problem is, if the
JL> JL>state appeals to (eventually) the SC, there is no jury. At that point,
JL> JL>it is strictly judging the law, not the defendant.
JL> VH> Except there is no appeal from jury nullification -- in nullification,
JL> VH> the jury finds a defendant not guilty, and that's the end of the case.
JL>Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
No. An accquital is the end of the case. Period.
-!-
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ 561-364-9249 (1:3609/80)
Vern Humphrey
JL>While Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> JL>Russia and China have been buddy-buddy lately, I am not as optimistic.
JL> VH> China and Russia are NEVER buddy-buddy. In the end, they are natural
JL> VH> opponents.
JL>They have reached a few agreements lately, it can only get better.
Better for us -- remember when the Chinese were ceremoniously mooning
the Russians on the Amur River every morning -- and one morning, just
as the Chinese dropped trou, the Russians raised a huge picture of
Chairman Mao? :-)
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.98)
Vern Humphrey
TR>-> TR>VH>CD> In the rape case just decided by the Court re
TR>Federalization o
TR>-> TR>VH>CD> rape law, Souter said Congress could make the law undert
TR>-> TR>VH>CD> commerce clause as rape was economic.
TR>-> TR>VH>If I hadn't read it here, I wouldn't believe it. :-)
TR>-> TR> Amazing ain't it? (Utterly amazing.)
TR>-> Did we follow a white rabbit down a hole or something? :-)
TR> I *thought* I heard someone shout "off with `er head!"
"When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean." :-)
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.2)
Vern Humphrey
GB>JL> GB> It turned out to be a police chopper at treetop level looking for a
GB>JL> GB> perp.
GB>JL>You sure they weren't looking for you? <G>
GB>They found me, nekkid and looking up at them from my bedroom window.<g>
Which would explain that tragic helicopter crash that was in the news.
Jeff Binkley
MG>-> GD>Now, if you have the cajones, why not ask Michael Gothreau if
MG>-> GD>he really means to kill you.
MG>-> TR> It isn't what the person who makes the threat *says*
MG>-> TR> was intended ex post facto, it is what the `target'
MG>-> Intent still has to be shown.
MG>-> TR> On a more serious note: *This* is the `Political' Echo
MG>-> TR> and not `Holysmoke'. *You* are one of the `smokers' over
MG>-> TR> there on that Echo. I do not wish to discuss here, anything
MG>-> TR> we are discussing over there.
MG>-> That's right Tim, run and hide. After all, it was you that
MG>-> brought the topic up, not me. Now, do your best to scream
MG>-> "Off Topic" to prevent discusion of your "report".
MG>TR>You are a coward and a worthless individual. Yet I do not
MG>TR>`twit' you because to do so would only give you a `token' victory.
MG>TR>In fact, I even `talk' to you here on this Echo.
MG>TR>Typing threats and challenges from the safety of a computer
MG>TR>monitor is not exactly the last word in courage. What I choose to
MG>TR>type or not to type is not under `your' control and never will be.
MG>TR>By the way, if you ever get to the San Diego area please let me
MG>TR>know you are coming in advance. I will be glad to make you
MG>TR>welcome, here.
MG>TR>Now you have a real nice day.
MG>How odd.
MG>You could not handle the very hard questions put to you in HOLYSMOKE
MG>so you ran back over here to call people cowards.
MG>You refuse to answer my questions of why you brought my words here
MG>for discussion and you call people cowards.
MG>It must be an interesting world that you live in. It isn't this
MG>world.
MG>I've been observing your other conversations over here. No wonder
MG>you tried HOLYSMOKE. No wonder you failed, miserably.
MG>You don't really have the right to be calling other people cowards,
MG>Tim. Your fears are too well known.
MG>Everyone knows there are no militant homosexuals in San Diego ;)
Why do so many people feel it necessary to come over to this echo and
tell us about the trials and tribulations in Holysmoke ?
Jeff
CMPQwk 1.42-21 9999
Mimi Gallandt
whilst talking to VERN, JOE said:
JL> JL>Russia and China have been buddy-buddy lately, I am not as
JL>optimistic.
JL> VH> China and Russia are NEVER buddy-buddy. In the end, they are
JL> VH> natural opponents.
JL>They have reached a few agreements lately, it can only get better.
Actually, it can get extremely worse if their agreements fall apart.
L'Chaim
Mimi
Mimi...@aol.com
http://homepages.go.com/~shrubula/duel.html
http://clusterone.home.mindspring.com
ş CMPQwk 1.42 9998 ş.::: ::..: ::.::. :..:: This tag-line is in braille
Tim Richardson
GD>brought the topic up, not me. Now, do your best to scream
GD>"Off Topic" to prevent discusion of your "report".
(Yawwwwwwwnnnnn! sigh.)
* SLMR 2.1a * "A bullet between his eyes . . . ." God Dan
Tim Richardson
MG>TR>Now you have a real nice day.
MG>How odd.
MG>You could not handle the very hard questions put to you in HOLYSMOKE so you
MG>ran back over here to call people cowards.
ROTFLMMFAO!!!!! The "very hard questions" in HOLYSMOKE? Why you
raging idiot. The `hardest' question over there is `like, duh. .
how do yuh spell f*ck'!
MG>You refuse to answer my questions of why you brought my words here for
MG>discussion and you call people cowards.
I am not `obligated' to even post to you. You are coming from
right off the wall. (It makes you good and mad that I threw your
own words back in your teeth, didn't it? You know how I know it
makes you good and mad? Because you are chasing me all over Fido so
as not to lose face with `all' your friends on HOLOSMOKE. Both of
them.)
MG>You don't really have the right to be calling other people cowards, Tim. Yo
MG>fears are too well known.
"Too well known"? By whom? Are `you' a private investigator or
something, or do you have a mouse in your pocket?
MG>Everyone knows there are no militant homosexuals in San Diego ;)
I'm not too sure what that has to do with anything. But whatever.
Why not `slither' back into HOLYSMOKE from whence you came,
little man.
* SLMR 2.1a * "And shoot each one between the eyes". Michael Gothreau
Tim Richardson
MG>Michael R. Gothreau
MG>..."Fear is only another form of awareness..." - Charles Manson
I suppose that its only fitting that someone of your stripe
would use Charles Manson as your `shining light' of reason.
(Manson hasn't uttered a full sentence that made sense to
anyone since the day after he was born. And neither have you.)
Have a nice `food fight', but it will only be with yourself.
* SLMR 2.1a * "A bullet between his eyes . . . ." God Dan
Tim Richardson
VH>TR>-> TR>VH>If I hadn't read it here, I wouldn't believe it. :-)
VH>TR>-> TR> Amazing ain't it? (Utterly amazing.)
VH>TR>-> Did we follow a white rabbit down a hole or something? :-)
VH>TR> I *thought* I heard someone shout "off with `er head!"
VH>"When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean." :-)
(And then the whole Senate stumbled over the word "is"!)
* SLMR 2.1a * ". .teachers are always good targets". . . .God Dan
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting BRUCE WILSON to VERN HUMPHREY <=-
VH> Actually, you've GOT the darling of the screwball radical left
VH> in office right now. :-)
BW> It's an unfortunate fact of political life that the parties are most
BW> influenced by their respective extremists because it's those people
BW> who are most motivated to be politically active and to the "dirty
BW> work" of politics -- knocking on doors, staffing phone banks, going
BW> to meetings, stuffing envelopes -- those things which the moderates
BW> on either side aren't sufficiently motivated to do.
Only because you define extremist as being willing
to knock on doors, staff phone banks, going to meetings,
stuffing envelopes and so on.
Ed
.. An inflamed liberal conscience is a weapon of mass destruction. Abrams
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Joe Lafoon to Dan Ceppa <=-
JL> I see the cockroach as the keeper of the earth if it ever comes to
JL> nuke war. I don't even like thinking about it.
DC> It's by thinking about it that such a war can be hopefuly avoided.
JL> True.
DC> The same goes to other issues. the environment among them.
JL> I walk a fine line WRT the environment. Some would call me liberal,
JL> some conservative, and they would both be right.
I don't know one blessed liberal thing about protecting
the environment.
Ed
.. For want of a life, a liberal was conceived --
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Joe Lafoon to Vern Humphrey <=-
JL>I am familiar with it, and agree with the idea of it. Problem is, if the
JL>state appeals to (eventually) the SC, there is no jury. At that point,
JL>it is strictly judging the law, not the defendant.
VH> Except there is no appeal from jury nullification -- in nullification,
VH> the jury finds a defendant not guilty, and that's the end of the case.
JL> Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
Nope - double jeapardy and all that rot... <g>
Ed
.. Sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.
Michael Gothreau
On 06-05-00, TIM RICHARDSON said to MICHAEL GOTHREAU:
MG>TR>Now you have a real nice day.
MG>How odd.
MG>You could not handle the very hard questions put to you in HOLYSMOKE so
MG>you
MG>ran back over here to call people cowards.
TR>ROTFLMMFAO!!!!! The "very hard questions" in HOLYSMOKE? Why you
TR>raging idiot. The `hardest' question over there is `like, duh. .
TR>how do yuh spell f*ck'!
Gee, is this the kind of behaviour and language that is acceptable in this
echo?
MG>You refuse to answer my questions of why you brought my words here for
MG>discussion and you call people cowards.
TR>I am not `obligated' to even post to you. You are coming from
TR>right off the wall. (It makes you good and mad that I threw your
TR>own words back in your teeth, didn't it? You know how I know it
TR>makes you good and mad? Because you are chasing me all over Fido so
TR>as not to lose face with `all' your friends on HOLOSMOKE. Both of
TR>them.)
You can believe what you want. Why did you come back here to discuss me? I
wasn't in this echo until you did this.
All over Fido? One echo does not constitute all over Fido. You can continue
to lie all you want, Tim. Methinks thou dost protest too much.
MG>You don't really have the right to be calling other people cowards, Tim.
MG>Your
MG>fears are too well known.
TR>"Too well known"? By whom? Are `you' a private investigator or
TR>something, or do you have a mouse in your pocket?
You revealled your fears in HOLYSMOKE and now you seek to deny them.
MG>Everyone knows there are no militant homosexuals in San Diego ;)
TR>I'm not too sure what that has to do with anything. But whatever.
TR>Why not `slither' back into HOLYSMOKE from whence you came,
TR>little man.
Make me.
I'm not the one spitting and sputtering in the POLITICS echo. I'm not the one
stretching the rules here. Since you have not left HOLYSMOKE as you claimed,
I'll tear you another anus there.
But, I am here to stay (as long as the Moderator permits) so get used to it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael R. Gothreau
.."To do injustice is more disgraceful than to suffer it." -- Plato
-!-
*Durango b211 * zap
Michael Gothreau
On 06-05-00, TIM RICHARDSON said to MICHAEL GOTHREAU:
MG>Michael R. Gothreau
MG>..."Fear is only another form of awareness..." - Charles Manson
TR>I suppose that its only fitting that someone of your stripe
TR>would use Charles Manson as your `shining light' of reason.
TR>(Manson hasn't uttered a full sentence that made sense to
TR>anyone since the day after he was born. And neither have you.)
TR>Have a nice `food fight', but it will only be with yourself.
If all you can do in your attempt to flame me is pick on a tagline I used then
you are the one who is losing out.
Perhaps Manson's words touched you a little too close to the truth.
What are you afraid of, Tim? Why are you afriad of homosexuals?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael R. Gothreau
.."The conquest of fear lies in the moment of it's acceptance."
Michael Gothreau
On 06-05-00, JEFF BINKLEY said to MICHAEL GOTHREAU:
MG>Everyone knows there are no militant homosexuals in San Diego ;)
JB>Why do so many people feel it necessary to come over to this echo and
JB>tell us about the trials and tribulations in Holysmoke ?
Maybe it is because so many of you here came over there on a bombing run. You
take up your problem with Tim and Earl and I'll get on with discussing
politics, now that I am here.
Are you afraid of homosexuals too?
Michael Gothreau
On 06-04-00, DAN CEPPA said to JEFF BINKLEY:
-> On 02 Jun 00 13:09:00, Jeff Binkley got back to Michael Gothreau
MG>I'll be taking the liberty of cross-posting this to HOLYSMOKE where
MG>everyone already knows exactly what you are. Hey, an eye for an
JB> And why don't you go back to HOLYSMOKE and stay there ? This
JB> continual bringing HOLYSMOKE arguments over here is ridiculous. I am
DC>Jeff, did it ever occur to you that it was Tim Richardson that
DC>posted about it in here in the first place?
DC>I didn't post it here. Neither did Michael.
DC>Now, try yelling at Tim, the real culprit.
You want to know the funny part?
I did not come here to defend myself. I had no idea that Tim had begun
discussing my words here rather than have the courage to face me where I
posted those words.
I came here to find out if Frank was all he's cracked up to be ;)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael R. Gothreau
.."Action should culminate in Wisdom." -- Bhagavad Gita
Vern Humphrey
EC> JL> I walk a fine line WRT the environment. Some would call me liberal,
EC> JL> some conservative, and they would both be right.
EC>I don't know one blessed liberal thing about protecting
EC>the environment.
I didn't see a single liberal come out to advise me about leaving buffer
zones along the creek when I cleared my pasture, nor about leaving some
trees standing in the cleared area to improve the songbird habitat.
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.2)
TERRY VERNON
JL> While Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> JL>Russia and China have been buddy-buddy lately, I am not as optimistic.
JL> VH> China and Russia are NEVER buddy-buddy. In the end, they are natural
JL> VH> opponents.
JL> They have reached a few agreements lately, it can only get better.
I'm not betting on that.
I suspect those agreements are little better than those
Mr. Chamberlain obtained.
Terry V.
---
ţ MM 1.1 #0367 ţ Nimrods rule the waves!
God Dan
-> On 04 Jun 00 15:16:06, Tim Richardson got back to God Dan
-> TR> there on that Echo. I do not wish to discuss here, anything
-> TR> we are discussing over there.
-> That's right Tim, run and hide. After all, it was you that
-> brought the topic up, not me. Now, do your best to scream
-> "Off Topic" to prevent discusion of your "report".
TR>
TR> You are a coward and a worthless individual. Yet I do not
Try again, Tim.
You are the one that brought the topic to here.
But, you choose to ignore that little tidbit and offer nothing
but ad hominems for your defense. It does you well.
.. "For people with no forgiveness in heart, living worst torture" Myogi
Dan Ceppa
-> On 04 Jun 00 13:30:23, Joe Lafoon got back to Dan Ceppa
JL> If it wasn't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers.
DC> That happened when lawyers learned that they could make a good
DC> living by obfuscating the facts and getting paid from both
DC> sides of the issue, win or lose.
JL> Like I told Mimi a while back, the lawyers already DO own the whole
JL> system, but the CPAs are covering it up for them. :-)
If you look into it deeply, the most indespensable person in any
business, even the gvt, is the one that knows both where the
bodies are buried and how to hide those bodies. As power
equates directly with money, care to bet that the bookkeeper
has a really good retirement program?
DC> ... If it wasn't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers. -- JLafoon
JL> I can't claim the quote, I stole the tagline elsewhere. <G>
Tough luck, your name's now attached to it!
JL> ... Borg starter kit. Some assimilation required.
That one is heading off to my STAR.TXT file...
.. "Is there a Lawyer in the House? -=}BLAM!{=- Any more!?"
Stan Hardegree
TR>>-> TR> Amazing ain't it? (Utterly amazing.)
TR>>-> Did we follow a white rabbit down a hole or something? :-)
TR>> I *thought* I heard someone shout "off with `er head!"
VH> "When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to
VH> mean." :-) -!-
This morning, I watched Good Morning America and their interview with Al Gore.
The first question the newsbabe asked was, "Mr. Vice President, you promised in
the spring that your campaign would not use soft money to buy advertising
before the primary, but you are now doing that. Did you go back on your
promise?"
He attacked Republicans and then talked about child care.
While he talked, the newsbabe smiled, head bobbing up and down like a chihuahua
in the back window of a Peurto Rican's car.
---
Dan Ceppa
-> On 05 Jun 00 09:30:24, Joe Lafoon got back to Vern Humphrey
VH> Except there is no appeal from jury nullification -- in nullification,
VH> the jury finds a defendant not guilty, and that's the end of the case.
JL> Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
I don't thing they can.
Jury nullification is not a "not guilty" verdict. It is a
statement that says that the law that the trial was started on is
null and void. The process, which most judges skirt quite well, is
not very publicized. It is the local equivalent by the jury that
is similar to a SC decision declaring a law unconstitutional.
.. Never say attorneys are useless. They make WONDERFUL bait.
Mimi Gallandt
whilst talking to DAN, MICHAEL said:
MG>I came here to find out if Frank was all he's cracked up to be ;)
Which Frank?
Wonder how many will remark on the MG> s when you reply to this? :)!
L'Chaim
Mimi
ş CMPQwk 1.42 9998 şHaley Barbour was *not* boring he was actually quite
entertaining
Joe Lafoon
As Gary Braswell gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> GB> I can't describe the feeling of sheer terror.
JL>I would have been vaporized, I think you get the better end of the
JL>bargain...
GB> I don't think so. Remember the Tina Turner song for Mad Max Beyond
GB> Thunder Dome? The living would envy the dead.
In that case, you might be right.
JL> GB> It turned out to be a police chopper at treetop level looking for a
JL> GB> perp.
JL>You sure they weren't looking for you? <G>
GB> They found me, nekkid and looking up at them from my bedroom window.<g>
Those poor cops. <G>
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. Why isn't there mouse-flavored cat food?
Joe Lafoon
As Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL>They have reached a few agreements lately, it can only get better.
VH> Better for us -- remember when the Chinese were ceremoniously mooning
VH> the Russians on the Amur River every morning -- and one morning, just
VH> as the Chinese dropped trou, the Russians raised a huge picture of
VH> Chairman Mao? :-)
Ah, the Russian sense of humor. <G>
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. I have no solution, but I certainly do admire the problem.
Joe Lafoon
As Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> VH> Except there is no appeal from jury nullification -- in nullification,
JL> VH> the jury finds a defendant not guilty, and that's the end of the case.
JL>Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
VH> No. An accquital is the end of the case. Period.
At what level? In Emerson, the Feds agreed with the defendant, Emerson.
The prosecution is appealing to the SC. Or is that only because it is
Federal law that was broken?
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. Register shareware, not handguns.
Joe Lafoon
As Mimi Gallandt gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> VH> China and Russia are NEVER buddy-buddy. In the end, they are
JL> VH> natural opponents.
JL>They have reached a few agreements lately, it can only get better.
MG> Actually, it can get extremely worse if their agreements fall apart.
I don't think that will happen. They have a lot to gain by working
together, which is not good for us.
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. What has four legs and an arm? A happy pit bull.
Joe Lafoon
As Ed Connell gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
DC> The same goes to other issues. the environment among them.
JL> I walk a fine line WRT the environment. Some would call me liberal,
JL> some conservative, and they would both be right.
EC> I don't know one blessed liberal thing about protecting
EC> the environment.
To me, protecting the environment is a legitimate concern, and partially
a Federal one.
But I also believe in common sense. Running over rats with a plow should
not be against the law.
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. An effective way to deal with predators is to taste terrible.
Gary Braswell
VH>GB>JL> GB> It turned out to be a police chopper at treetop level looking for
a
VH>GB>JL> GB> perp.
VH>GB>JL>You sure they weren't looking for you? <G>
VH>GB>They found me, nekkid and looking up at them from my bedroom window.<g>
VH>Which would explain that tragic helicopter crash that was in the news.
Richmond did have a lot of those which caused them to stop using
helos.<g>
---
ž OLXWin 1.00b ž I feel much better since I gave up hope!
Gary Braswell
TR>MG>TR>Now you have a real nice day.
TR>MG>How odd.
TR>MG>You could not handle the very hard questions put to you in HOLYSMOKE so
you
TR>MG>ran back over here to call people cowards.
TR> ROTFLMMFAO!!!!! The "very hard questions" in HOLYSMOKE? Why you
TR> raging idiot. The `hardest' question over there is `like, duh. .
TR> how do yuh spell f*ck'!
Tim, please stop the insults.
Thanks!
Gary Braswell
MG>On 06-05-00, TIM RICHARDSON said to MICHAEL GOTHREAU:
MG>MG>TR>Now you have a real nice day.
MG>MG>How odd.
MG>MG>You could not handle the very hard questions put to you in HOLYSMOKE so
MG>MG>you
MG>MG>ran back over here to call people cowards.
MG>TR>ROTFLMMFAO!!!!! The "very hard questions" in HOLYSMOKE? Why you
MG>TR>raging idiot. The `hardest' question over there is `like, duh. .
MG>TR>how do yuh spell f*ck'!
MG>Gee, is this the kind of behaviour and language that is acceptable in this
MG>echo?
Nope, he has been called down on it.
MG>Make me.
MG>I'm not the one spitting and sputtering in the POLITICS echo. I'm not the
one
MG>stretching the rules here. Since you have not left HOLYSMOKE as you
claimed,
MG>I'll tear you another anus there.
MG>But, I am here to stay (as long as the Moderator permits) so get used to it.
As long as you follow the rules you are welcome.
-!-
Gary Braswell
Lets drop this thread on what happened in another echo. Thanks!
MG>On 06-05-00, TIM RICHARDSON said to MICHAEL GOTHREAU:
MG>MG>TR>Now you have a real nice day.
MG>MG>How odd.
MG>MG>You could not handle the very hard questions put to you in HOLYSMOKE so
MG>MG>you
MG>MG>ran back over here to call people cowards.
MG>TR>ROTFLMMFAO!!!!! The "very hard questions" in HOLYSMOKE? Why you
MG>TR>raging idiot. The `hardest' question over there is `like, duh. .
MG>TR>how do yuh spell f*ck'!
MG>Gee, is this the kind of behaviour and language that is acceptable in this
MG>echo?
MG>MG>You refuse to answer my questions of why you brought my words here for
MG>MG>discussion and you call people cowards.
MG>TR>I am not `obligated' to even post to you. You are coming from
MG>TR>right off the wall. (It makes you good and mad that I threw your
MG>TR>own words back in your teeth, didn't it? You know how I know it
MG>TR>makes you good and mad? Because you are chasing me all over Fido so
MG>TR>as not to lose face with `all' your friends on HOLOSMOKE. Both of
MG>TR>them.)
MG>You can believe what you want. Why did you come back here to discuss me? I
MG>wasn't in this echo until you did this.
MG>All over Fido? One echo does not constitute all over Fido. You can
continue
MG>to lie all you want, Tim. Methinks thou dost protest too much.
MG>MG>You don't really have the right to be calling other people cowards, Tim.
MG>MG>Your
MG>MG>fears are too well known.
MG>TR>"Too well known"? By whom? Are `you' a private investigator or
MG>TR>something, or do you have a mouse in your pocket?
MG>You revealled your fears in HOLYSMOKE and now you seek to deny them.
MG>MG>Everyone knows there are no militant homosexuals in San Diego ;)
MG>TR>I'm not too sure what that has to do with anything. But whatever.
MG>TR>Why not `slither' back into HOLYSMOKE from whence you came,
MG>TR>little man.
MG>Make me.
MG>I'm not the one spitting and sputtering in the POLITICS echo. I'm not the
one
MG>stretching the rules here. Since you have not left HOLYSMOKE as you
claimed,
MG>I'll tear you another anus there.
MG>But, I am here to stay (as long as the Moderator permits) so get used to it.
MG>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MG>Michael R. Gothreau
MG>..."To do injustice is more disgraceful than to suffer it." -- Plato
MG>-!-
MG>*Durango b211 * zap
MG>--- OLMS 2000+ [RBGCD933]
MG> * Origin: GratisNet: QWK/BW packets via email (1:170/302)
cc: TIM RICHARDSON
Gary Braswell
This message was originally addressed to MICHAEL GOTHREAU
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
----------------------------------------
Vern Humphrey
TR>VH>TR>-> TR>VH>If I hadn't read it here, I wouldn't believe it. :-)
TR>VH>TR>-> TR> Amazing ain't it? (Utterly amazing.)
TR>VH>TR>-> Did we follow a white rabbit down a hole or something? :-)
TR>VH>TR> I *thought* I heard someone shout "off with `er head!"
TR>VH>"When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean." :-)
TR> (And then the whole Senate stumbled over the word "is"!)
Right -- you see, "is" means "was," or maybe "will be," but it don't
mean "is." :-)
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.98)
Michael Gothreau
On 06-07-00, MIMI GALLANDT said to MICHAEL GOTHREAU:
MG>whilst talking to DAN, MICHAEL said:
MG>I came here to find out if Frank was all he's cracked up to be ;)
MG>Which Frank?
The one who allegedly thinks women want to be raped.
MG>Wonder how many will remark on the MG> s when you reply to this? :)!
All the bored ones.
Tim Richardson is having so much fun avoiding real issues by trying to make
issues out of the taglines I choose. Now, THAT is funny.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael R. Gothreau
..A crucifix? Oy Vay! Have you got the wrong vampire...
-!-
*Durango b211 * zap
Vern Humphrey
SH> VH> "When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to
SH> VH> mean." :-) -!-
SH>This morning, I watched Good Morning America and their interview with Al Gor
SH>The first question the newsbabe asked was, "Mr. Vice President, you promised
SH>in the spring that your campaign would not use soft money to buy advertising
SH>before the primary, but you are now doing that. Did you go back on your
SH>promise?"
SH>He attacked Republicans and then talked about child care.
He's an apt pupil of a skilled master. :-)
SH>While he talked, the newsbabe smiled, head bobbing up and down like a
SH>chihuahua in the back window of a Peurto Rican's car.
he's got them trained -- wonder if any of them are wearing knee pads?
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.2)
Vern Humphrey
JL>As Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> JL>They have reached a few agreements lately, it can only get better.
JL> VH> Better for us -- remember when the Chinese were ceremoniously mooning
JL> VH> the Russians on the Amur River every morning -- and one morning, just
JL> VH> as the Chinese dropped trou, the Russians raised a huge picture of
JL> VH> Chairman Mao? :-)
JL>Ah, the Russian sense of humor. <G>
You got to admit, when it comes to childish games, the Russians and
Chinese can teach us a thing or two. :-)
-!-
ţ OLX 2.1 TD ţ 1:170/302.98)
Vern Humphrey
JL> JL>Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
JL> VH> No. An accquital is the end of the case. Period.
JL>At what level? In Emerson, the Feds agreed with the defendant, Emerson.
JL>The prosecution is appealing to the SC. Or is that only because it is
JL>Federal law that was broken?
An acquital cannot be appealed. Period.
If there is an appeal, it can only be of a judge's ruling -- or of a
civil case.
If the defendant has been acquitted in a criminal case, there is no
further action in that case.
-!-
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ 561-364-9249 (1:3609/80)
Vern Humphrey
GB>VH>GB>They found me, nekkid and looking up at them from my bedroom window.<g
GB>VH>Which would explain that tragic helicopter crash that was in the news.
GB>Richmond did have a lot of those which caused them to stop using
GB>helos.<g>
Back around 1970 or thereabouts, Columbus, Georgia, The Fountain City,
got a helicopter, and signs were changed to "Welcome to Columbus
Georgia, patrolled by helicopter."
The helicopter crashed, and the signs changed to "Welcome to Columbus
Georgia, the Fountain City."
They fixed the helicopter, and the signs were changed to "Welcome to
Columbus Georgia, patrolled by helicopter."
Then the helicopter crashed again, and the signs changed to "Welcome to
Columbus Georgia, the Fountain City."
Eventually the helicopter was non-repariable, and when I left, they were
The Fountain City again. :-)
-!-
ž OLX 2.1 TD ž 1:170/302.2)
Dan Ceppa
-> On 06 Jun 00 00:30:11, Ed Connell got back to Joe Lafoon
DC> The same goes to other issues. the environment among them.
JL> I walk a fine line WRT the environment. Some would call me liberal,
JL> some conservative, and they would both be right.
EC> I don't know one blessed liberal thing about protecting
EC> the environment.
It's called "conservation".
And, no, it has nothing to do with the oft bandied about labels
of "conservative" or "liberal". But, it does have a lot to
do about survival.
.. "You can't just let nature run wild"... Gov Hickel, AK
God Dan
-> On 05 Jun 00 07:08:00, Tim Richardson got back to God Dan
GD>brought the topic up, not me. Now, do your best to scream
GD>"Off Topic" to prevent discusion of your "report".
TR> (Yawwwwwwwnnnnn! sigh.)
That you for acknowledging that.
Now, go back to sleep.
.. The truth is the truth, whether it hurts or not
Tim Richardson
JL>To me, protecting the environment is a legitimate concern, and partially
JL>a Federal one.
JL>But I also believe in common sense. Running over rats with a plow should
JL>not be against the law.
What about `Arroyo Toads'? (I am not kidding.) The state of
California recently confiscated 500,000 acres of `public lands'
to `preserve habitat for the Arroyo Toad, which it put on its
*endangered species* list. So there goes another half-a-million
acres of The People's lands to `the state'. ("Its for the Arroyo
Toad!")
* SLMR 2.1a * "And shoot each one between the eyes". Michael Gothreau
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Vern Humphrey to Ed Connell <=-
EC> JL> I walk a fine line WRT the environment. Some would call me liberal,
EC> JL> some conservative, and they would both be right.
EC>I don't know one blessed liberal thing about protecting
EC>the environment.
VH> I didn't see a single liberal come out to advise me about leaving
VH> buffer zones along the creek when I cleared my pasture, nor about
VH> leaving some trees standing in the cleared area to improve the songbird
VH> habitat. -!-
What characterizes the liberal's approach to
protection of the environment is their making
the cost fall on the citizen/landowner. I don't
think they ever found a violation of the fifth
amendment they didn't like. :-(
Ed
.. Black holes really suck.
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Joe Lafoon <=-
VH> Except there is no appeal from jury nullification -- in nullification,
VH> the jury finds a defendant not guilty, and that's the end of the case.
JL> Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
DC> I don't thing they can.
DC> Jury nullification is not a "not guilty" verdict. It is a
DC> statement that says that the law that the trial was started on is
DC> null and void. The process, which most judges skirt quite well, is
DC> not very publicized. It is the local equivalent by the jury that
DC> is similar to a SC decision declaring a law unconstitutional.
Nope.
Ed
.. Sadly, the unaware are unaware that they are unaware.
Joe Lafoon
As Dan Ceppa gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
DC> I don't thing they can.
Double jeapardy, as Ed pointed out. I didn't think it counted in
appeals, I just assumed either side could.
DC> Jury nullification is not a "not guilty" verdict. It is a
DC> statement that says that the law that the trial was started on is
DC> null and void. The process, which most judges skirt quite well, is
DC> not very publicized. It is the local equivalent by the jury that
DC> is similar to a SC decision declaring a law unconstitutional.
George posted the website of FIJA, they have been doing a decent job of
getting the word out.
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. Make welfare as hard to get as a pistol permit!
Joe Lafoon
As Dan Ceppa gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
DC> If you look into it deeply, the most indespensable person in any
DC> business, even the gvt, is the one that knows both where the
DC> bodies are buried and how to hide those bodies. As power
DC> equates directly with money, care to bet that the bookkeeper
DC> has a really good retirement program?
I would bet you are correct.
DC> ... If it wasn't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers. -- JLafoon
JL> I can't claim the quote, I stole the tagline elsewhere. <G>
DC> Tough luck, your name's now attached to it!
Well, as long as nobody sues me...
JL> ... Borg starter kit. Some assimilation required.
DC> That one is heading off to my STAR.TXT file...
I steal some good ones now and again.
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. Yoda am I, of Borg. Assimilated will you be.
Joe Lafoon
As TERRY VERNON gunned down JOE LAFOON, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> They have reached a few agreements lately, it can only get better.
TV> I'm not betting on that.
TV> I suspect those agreements are little better than those
TV> Mr. Chamberlain obtained.
Maybe, maybe not. If they DO get friendlier, that is bad for us.
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
Bob Sakowski
-=> Ed Connell wrote to Dan Ceppa <=-
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Joe Lafoon <=-
VH> Except there is no appeal from jury nullification -- in nullification,
VH> the jury finds a defendant not guilty, and that's the end of the case.
JL> Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
DC> I don't thing they can.
DC> Jury nullification is not a "not guilty" verdict. It is a
DC> statement that says that the law that the trial was started on is
DC> null and void. The process, which most judges skirt quite well, is
DC> not very publicized. It is the local equivalent by the jury that
DC> is similar to a SC decision declaring a law unconstitutional.
EC> Nope.
As I recall from many years ago, jury nullification is the jury's
right not to apply the law in the case they are considering. Neither
guilty or not guilty but simply a decision not to apply the law in
question to the case they are deciding.
Cheers.....
ed hackett
On 4/16/45, Dan Ceppa was overheard saying to Ed Connell:
EC> I don't know one blessed liberal thing about protecting the
EC> environment.
DC> It's called "conservation".
Preservation, more accurately.
Vern Humphrey
EC> VH> I didn't see a single liberal come out to advise me about leaving
EC> VH> buffer zones along the creek when I cleared my pasture, nor about
EC> VH> leaving some trees standing in the cleared area to improve the songbird
EC> VH> habitat. -!-
EC>What characterizes the liberal's approach to
EC>protection of the environment is their making
EC>the cost fall on the citizen/landowner. I don't
EC>think they ever found a violation of the fifth
EC>amendment they didn't like. :-(
You are absolutely right!!
(For those just tuning in, the relevant clause in the Fifth Amendment is
the last, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without
just compensation.")
Property owners are expected to bear the whole burden and cost of the
laws and regulations passed by liberals.
If it's GOOD that no trees be cut on YOUR land, let the government BUY
it, at a fair price. Let ALL contribute to what is for the good of all.
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.2)
Vern Humphrey
EC> JL> Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
EC> DC> I don't thing they can.
EC> DC> Jury nullification is not a "not guilty" verdict. It is a
EC> DC> statement that says that the law that the trial was started on is
EC> DC> null and void. The process, which most judges skirt quite well, is
EC> DC> not very publicized. It is the local equivalent by the jury that
EC> DC> is similar to a SC decision declaring a law unconstitutional.
EC>Nope.
Make sure Stan archives this one -- Dan has outdone himself. :-)
"Jury nullification is not a "not guilty" verdict." :-)
-!-
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ 561-364-9249 (1:3609/80)
Vern Humphrey
BS>As I recall from many years ago, jury nullification is the jury's
BS>right not to apply the law in the case they are considering. Neither
BS>guilty or not guilty but simply a decision not to apply the law in
BS>question to the case they are deciding.
The jury can make only three official communications -- "Guilty," "Not
Guilty," or "Unable to come to a verdict." There is no way for a jury
to say OFFICIALLY "We don't agree with this law, and have decided not to
apply it."
What they do is simply vote "Not guilty" when the law and evidence would
indicate a verdict of "Guilty."
Two fairly recent examples are the trials of John Z. Delorean and O. J.
Simpson.
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 561-364-9249 (1:3609/80)
Michael Gothreau
On 06-07-00, GARY BRASWELL said to MICHAEL GOTHREAU:
GB>Lets drop this thread on what happened in another echo. Thanks!
Actually, it happened in this echo. Tim posted my words here, out of context
and without my knowledge. I came here afterward for entirely different
reasons.
However, I still get YOUR message.
Thread dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael R. Gothreau
..I didn't "go ballistic" you FAGGOT-LOVING cock-bite. - Tim Richardson
-!-
*Durango b211 * zap
Gary Braswell
SH>TR>>-> TR> Amazing ain't it? (Utterly amazing.)
SH>TR>>-> Did we follow a white rabbit down a hole or something? :-)
SH>TR>> I *thought* I heard someone shout "off with `er head!"
SH> VH> "When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to
SH> VH> mean." :-) -!-
SH>This morning, I watched Good Morning America and their interview with Al
Gore.
SH>The first question the newsbabe asked was, "Mr. Vice President, you promised
SH>in the spring that your campaign would not use soft money to buy advertising
SH>before the primary, but you are now doing that. Did you go back on your
SH>promise?"
SH>He attacked Republicans and then talked about child care.
SH>While he talked, the newsbabe smiled, head bobbing up and down like a
SH>chihuahua in the back window of a Peurto Rican's car.
You expect hard-hitting interviews from Good Morning America?
Its hard to find them on prime-time news.
I saw Bill Gates interviewed yesterday and he was asked if the reason he
wanted to not go to the supreme court, but rather the normal appeals
court is so if GWB gets in, the case might be dropped.
Gates did not answer the question at all and the newsbabe did not press
it at all.
-!-
ş OLXWin 1.00b ş I feel much better since I gave up hope!
Gary Braswell
VH>GB>VH>GB>They found me, nekkid and looking up at them from my bedroom
VH>window.<g
VH>GB>VH>Which would explain that tragic helicopter crash that was in the news.
VH>GB>Richmond did have a lot of those which caused them to stop using
VH>GB>helos.<g>
VH>Back around 1970 or thereabouts, Columbus, Georgia, The Fountain City,
VH>got a helicopter, and signs were changed to "Welcome to Columbus
VH>Georgia, patrolled by helicopter."
VH>The helicopter crashed, and the signs changed to "Welcome to Columbus
VH>Georgia, the Fountain City."
VH>They fixed the helicopter, and the signs were changed to "Welcome to
VH>Columbus Georgia, patrolled by helicopter."
VH>Then the helicopter crashed again, and the signs changed to "Welcome to
VH>Columbus Georgia, the Fountain City."
VH>Eventually the helicopter was non-repariable, and when I left, they were
VH>The Fountain City again. :-)
Sounds like Richmond, though people died in one of the crashes.
-!-
ž OLXWin 1.00b ž I feel much better since I gave up hope!
Bob Sakowski
-=> Vern Humphrey wrote to Bob Sakowski <=-
BS>As I recall from many years ago, jury nullification is the jury's
BS>right not to apply the law in the case they are considering. Neither
BS>guilty or not guilty but simply a decision not to apply the law in
BS>question to the case they are deciding.
VH> The jury can make only three official communications --
VH> "Guilty," "Not Guilty," or "Unable to come to a verdict."
VH> There is no way for a jury to say OFFICIALLY "We don't
VH> agree with this law, and have decided not to apply it."
VH> What they do is simply vote "Not guilty" when the law and
VH> evidence would indicate a verdict of "Guilty."
I did not chose my words carefully it seems. I meant that when a
jury opts to not apply the law in the case they are considering
(jury nullification) they will vote not guilty. However when the
jury takes an oath to follow the instructions of the judge in
considering the evidence, those members who chose to ignore the
evidence and vote not guilty can be, and have been, removed from
the jury even *after* the deliberations have been made.
Cheers.....
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Ed Connell <=-
DC> The same goes to other issues. the environment among them.
JL> I walk a fine line WRT the environment. Some would call me liberal,
JL> some conservative, and they would both be right.
EC> I don't know one blessed liberal thing about protecting
EC> the environment.
DC> It's called "conservation".
DC> And, no, it has nothing to do with the oft bandied about labels
DC> of "conservative"
DC> or "liberal".
That's what I just said.
Ed
.. Some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant!
Bob Sakowski
-=> Ed Connell wrote to Bob Sakowski <=-
BS> If you check the history of the court, judges appointed to the SC
BS> quite frequently conduct themselves quite differently from the manner
BS> with which they acted in their previous position, at the confirmation
BS> hearings, or both. Something about becoming a member of that august
BS> body lends itself to them rethinking their ideology as regards the law.
EC> Are you thinking of, among others, Warren and Blackmon? <g>
Exactly, along with a few from the current court.
Cheers.....
Vern Humphrey
GB>VH>Then the helicopter crashed again, and the signs changed to "Welcome to
GB>VH>Columbus Georgia, the Fountain City."
GB>VH>Eventually the helicopter was non-repariable, and when I left, they were
GB>VH>The Fountain City again. :-)
GB>Sounds like Richmond, though people died in one of the crashes.
There were rumours one of the Columbus cops died in a crash, too -- but
how anyone could tell, I don't know. :-)
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.98)
Vern Humphrey
BS> VH> What they do is simply vote "Not guilty" when the law and
BS> VH> evidence would indicate a verdict of "Guilty."
BS>I did not chose my words carefully it seems. I meant that when a
BS>jury opts to not apply the law in the case they are considering
BS>(jury nullification) they will vote not guilty. However when the
BS>jury takes an oath to follow the instructions of the judge in
BS>considering the evidence, those members who chose to ignore the
BS>evidence and vote not guilty can be, and have been, removed from
BS>the jury even *after* the deliberations have been made.
But not after the verdict has been announced.
And once a jury member has been removed, he must be replaced with an
alterante -- if you remove enough jury members, you run out of
alternates (who must have sat through the entire case.)
And, of course, removing a juror after deliberations are complete is a
good way to ensure an appeal. :-)
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.2)
Dan Ceppa
-> On 07 Jun 00 11:44:17, Joe Lafoon got back to Ed Connell
-> Re: 11th Circuit Ruling
JL> To me, protecting the environment is a legitimate concern, and
JL> partially a Federal one.
JL> But I also believe in common sense. Running over rats with a plow
JL> should not be against the law.
It is when you do that in someone's laboratory!
Actually, rats have their nitch, too. Thing is, not only are
they very prolific, they are quite resilient and quite resourceful.
They can survive things that few other mammals can. That includes
their diet as well as their habit. I'm not sure, but I think
only maybe Antarctica doesn't have a year-round presence of them.
.. Let me know immediately, if you don't get this message.
Vern Humphrey
DC>-> On 07 Jun 00 11:44:17, Joe Lafoon got back to Ed Connell
DC>-> Re: 11th Circuit Ruling
DC> JL> To me, protecting the environment is a legitimate concern, and
DC> JL> partially a Federal one.
DC> JL> But I also believe in common sense. Running over rats with a plow
DC> JL> should not be against the law.
DC>It is when you do that in someone's laboratory!
This boy is a gold mine!! :-)
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.2)
Gary Braswell
MG>On 06-07-00, GARY BRASWELL said to MICHAEL GOTHREAU:
MG>GB>Lets drop this thread on what happened in another echo. Thanks!
MG>Actually, it happened in this echo. Tim posted my words here, out of
context
MG>and without my knowledge. I came here afterward for entirely different
MG>reasons.
MG>However, I still get YOUR message.
MG>Thread dropped.
Thanks!
-!-
þ OLXWin 1.00b þ I feel much better since I gave up hope!
Gary Braswell
VH>GB>VH>Then the helicopter crashed again, and the signs changed to "Welcome
to
VH>GB>VH>Columbus Georgia, the Fountain City."
VH>GB>VH>Eventually the helicopter was non-repariable, and when I left, they
were
VH>GB>VH>The Fountain City again. :-)
VH>GB>Sounds like Richmond, though people died in one of the crashes.
VH>There were rumours one of the Columbus cops died in a crash, too -- but
VH>how anyone could tell, I don't know. :-)
Ugh.
-!-
ž OLXWin 1.00b ž I feel much better since I gave up hope!
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Bob Sakowski to Ed Connell <=-
VH> Except there is no appeal from jury nullification -- in nullification,
VH> the jury finds a defendant not guilty, and that's the end of the case.
JL> Unless the prosecution appeals. Can't that happen?
DC> I don't thing they can.
DC> Jury nullification is not a "not guilty" verdict. It is a
DC> statement that says that the law that the trial was started on is
DC> null and void. The process, which most judges skirt quite well, is
DC> not very publicized. It is the local equivalent by the jury that
DC> is similar to a SC decision declaring a law unconstitutional.
EC> Nope.
BS> As I recall from many years ago, jury nullification is the jury's
BS> right not to apply the law in the case they are considering. Neither
BS> guilty or not guilty but simply a decision not to apply the law in
BS> question to the case they are deciding.
I think they simply refuse to find the defendant guilty.
For example, suppose there was a law stating that no
person of Polish descent could be in a certain town
on weekends. If I were on a jury and 10 witnesses
identified you as the person who had walked down the
aisle of the church naked on Sunday and an expert testified
that your palm print was found on the altar, I would never
admit being convinced that you were ever there - and there's
not a thing the judge or anyone else could do about it. Now
if I could convince the rest of the jury to join me, that
would be jury nullification. <g>
Ed
.. just cruising with those smoking oldies.
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Vern Humphrey to Ed Connell <=-
EC> VH> I didn't see a single liberal come out to advise me about leaving
EC> VH> buffer zones along the creek when I cleared my pasture, nor about
EC> VH> leaving some trees standing in the cleared area to improve the
VH> songbird
EC> VH> habitat. -!-
EC>What characterizes the liberal's approach to
EC>protection of the environment is their making
EC>the cost fall on the citizen/landowner. I don't
EC>think they ever found a violation of the fifth
EC>amendment they didn't like. :-(
VH> You are absolutely right!!
VH> (For those just tuning in, the relevant clause in the Fifth Amendment
VH> is the last, "nor shall private property be taken for public use,
VH> without just compensation.")
VH> Property owners are expected to bear the whole burden and cost of the
VH> laws and regulations passed by liberals.
VH> If it's GOOD that no trees be cut on YOUR land, let the government BUY
VH> it, at a fair price. Let ALL contribute to what is for the good of
VH> all. -!-
Exactly what I had in mind.
Ed
.. Some minds should be cultivated, others plowed under.
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Bob Sakowski to Vern Humphrey <=-
BS>As I recall from many years ago, jury nullification is the jury's
BS>right not to apply the law in the case they are considering. Neither
BS>guilty or not guilty but simply a decision not to apply the law in
BS>question to the case they are deciding.
VH> The jury can make only three official communications --
VH> "Guilty," "Not Guilty," or "Unable to come to a verdict."
VH> There is no way for a jury to say OFFICIALLY "We don't
VH> agree with this law, and have decided not to apply it."
VH> What they do is simply vote "Not guilty" when the law and
VH> evidence would indicate a verdict of "Guilty."
BS> I did not chose my words carefully it seems. I meant that when a
BS> jury opts to not apply the law in the case they are considering
BS> (jury nullification) they will vote not guilty. However when the
BS> jury takes an oath to follow the instructions of the judge in
BS> considering the evidence, those members who chose to ignore the
BS> evidence and vote not guilty can be, and have been, removed from
BS> the jury even *after* the deliberations have been made.
Not if they keep their mouths shut, I don't think.
Ed
.. Operator, give me the number for 911.
Vern Humphrey
EC> VH> (For those just tuning in, the relevant clause in the Fifth Amendment
EC> VH> is the last, "nor shall private property be taken for public use,
EC> VH> without just compensation.")
EC> VH> Property owners are expected to bear the whole burden and cost of the
EC> VH> laws and regulations passed by liberals.
EC> VH> If it's GOOD that no trees be cut on YOUR land, let the government BUY
EC> VH> it, at a fair price. Let ALL contribute to what is for the good of
EC> VH> all. -!-
EC>Exactly what I had in mind.
But that's so, so ... so UNliberal! :-)
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.98)
Vern Humphrey
EC> BS> As I recall from many years ago, jury nullification is the jury's
EC> BS> right not to apply the law in the case they are considering. Neither
EC> BS> guilty or not guilty but simply a decision not to apply the law in
EC> BS> question to the case they are deciding.
EC>I think they simply refuse to find the defendant guilty.
You're absolutely right.
EC>For example, suppose there was a law stating that no
EC>person of Polish descent could be in a certain town
EC>on weekends. If I were on a jury and 10 witnesses
EC>identified you as the person who had walked down the
EC>aisle of the church naked on Sunday and an expert testified
EC>that your palm print was found on the altar, I would never
EC>admit being convinced that you were ever there - and there's
EC>not a thing the judge or anyone else could do about it. Now
EC>if I could convince the rest of the jury to join me, that
EC>would be jury nullification. <g>
Excellent example -- you show your moral indignation against an unjust
law by refusing to convict.
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 561-364-9249 (1:3609/80)
Joe Lafoon
While Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL>At what level? In Emerson, the Feds agreed with the defendant, Emerson.
JL>The prosecution is appealing to the SC. Or is that only because it is
JL>Federal law that was broken?
VH> An acquital cannot be appealed. Period.
I don't know the whole history of Miller or Emerson. I will see how it
actually went. I thought in Miller he was found innocent at the state
level, and it went up from there. That is definitely what happened at
the Federal level, because there was no defense at the SC.
VH> If there is an appeal, it can only be of a judge's ruling -- or of a
VH> civil case.
VH> If the defendant has been acquitted in a criminal case, there is no
VH> further action in that case.
So, even if Emerson goes to the SC, and God forbid loses, he still can't
be punished for it, correct?
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
Dan Ceppa
-> On 07 Jun 00 21:30:25, Ed Connell got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Jury nullification is not a "not guilty" verdict. It is a
DC> statement that says that the law that the trial was started on is
DC> null and void. The process, which most judges skirt quite well, is
DC> not very publicized. It is the local equivalent by the jury that
DC> is similar to a SC decision declaring a law unconstitutional.
EC> Nope.
Are you sure about that? My understanding is the of it is
that such a verdict basically says that the law that the
person was brought to trial has no force as a legal instrument.
.. Hey, Rocky! Watch me pull a tagline out of my hat!
Dan Ceppa
-> On 08 Jun 00 01:30:14, Joe Lafoon got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> equates directly with money, care to bet that the bookkeeper
DC> has a really good retirement program?
JL> I would bet you are correct.
I've known too many bookkeepers in my time!
DC> ... If it wasn't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers. -- JLafoon
JL> I can't claim the quote, I stole the tagline elsewhere. <G>
DC> Tough luck, your name's now attached to it!
JL> Well, as long as nobody sues me...
Shsssssh! Chuckie may hear you!
JL> ... Borg starter kit. Some assimilation required.
DC> That one is heading off to my STAR.TXT file...
JL> I steal some good ones now and again.
I only purloin the best.
JL> ... Yoda am I, of Borg. Assimilated will you be.
I've got one that beats the snots out of that one, but I
don't think Gary want to see it here!
.. "Cry on someone else's shoulder, I'm off-duty." Troi
Vern Humphrey
JL> VH> An acquital cannot be appealed. Period.
JL>I don't know the whole history of Miller or Emerson. I will see how it
JL>actually went. I thought in Miller he was found innocent at the state
JL>level, and it went up from there. That is definitely what happened at
JL>the Federal level, because there was no defense at the SC.
JL> VH> If there is an appeal, it can only be of a judge's ruling -- or of a
JL> VH> civil case.
JL> VH> If the defendant has been acquitted in a criminal case, there is no
JL> VH> further action in that case.
JL>So, even if Emerson goes to the SC, and God forbid loses, he still can't
JL>be punished for it, correct?
What specifically is the matter under appeal?
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 561-364-9249 (1:3609/80)
Alan Hess
Whilst masticating on <Jun 07 00>, Tim Richardson (1:202/1324)
wrote to Joe Lafoon:
TR> What about `Arroyo Toads'? (I am not kidding.) The state of
TR> California recently confiscated 500,000 acres of `public lands'
TR> to `preserve habitat for the Arroyo Toad, which it put on its
TR> *endangered species* list. So there goes another half-a-million
TR> acres of The People's lands to `the state'. ("Its for the Arroyo
TR> Toad!")
If the species is endangered, it should be protected. You didn't say that
private property was taken to protect it. You also didn't say the public can
no longer access that land for hiking or whatever.
Heaven forbid the government preserve land, and the flora and fauna that lives
on it. Pave everything! *adh*
Alan Hess
Whilst masticating on <Jun 10 00>, Joe Lafoon (1:170/302)
wrote to Dan Ceppa:
JL> We have these giant rat-looking things at work called "nutria" I
JL> believe, although I don't know if that is how it is spelled. They
JL> are taking over the place.
They're ruining the ecology of Blackwater National Wildlife Refuge. Another
example of the damage caused by the introduction (intentional or accidental) of
non-native species to ecosystems where they don't belong. And, most of the
time, there's no way to kill off just the introduced species.
JL> One of my co-workers also saw a large black bear the other
JL> day...although, my theory is he drank lunch and saw a nutria jump
JL> in the ditch... <G>
A young black bear was killed by a car on the Baltimore-Washington Parkway the
other day. It wasn't a nutria. :-) *adh*
James Wriker
On 05-04-00, FRANK SCHEIDT said to JAMES WRIKER:
-=> Quoting James Wriker to Frank Scheidt <=-
BA> It occurs to me that some of the thugs were photographed. It
BA> would not be rocket science to find out who they are and where they
BA> are, publicize it, and let nature take its course.
FS>Despite what you've both said, that was Janet Reno's finest
FS>hour -- revovery of that terrified child from those Miami
FS>Cubans who were holding him against his father's will. The
JW> Finest hour? I doubt that. Tac teams are usually last resort.
FS>"Tac teams"???
Tactical Teams, SWAT units.
FS>extraction obviously was well-conceived and carried out
FS>flawlessly ... well, *almost* flawlessly -- if the claims
JW> It was successful and no one was killed. That is a successful op.
FS>are true about the house trashing, that requires some
FS>explanation. I suspect some Miami Cubans deliberately
FS>trashed the house so as to regain some of the sympathy
FS>they lost when keeping father and son apart.
JW> I doubt that. Tac teams go in and go in hard to overwhelm and contain.
JW> If doors are in the way, they go too.
FS>I hadn't heard or read that any of the doors were locked.
FS>After all, there *are* such things a door knobs. Who pays
FS>for the damage??
We used knobs and keys, but if they were locked, we went through them. As for
the damage, it depends on the situation.
FS>It will be a happy day in this nation when Castro is
FS>no-longer in power and that whole group of Miami Cubans can
I will agree with you on Castro, but how do you know all of the Miami Cubans
want to go to Cuba?
FS>be shipped back to their homes. I'd be willing to pay extra
FS>taxes just to hire a huge transport ship -- maybe the QE2 --
FS>to get them out of here as soon as possible at that time.
JW> Bigoted are we?
FS>I don't know if you are or not -- in any event I'll not
FS>condemn you for it. What kind of bigotry do you mean?
FS>.
You seem to want all Miami Cubans out of the country, why?
-!-
*Durango b300 #PE*
James Wriker
On 05-04-00, CHARLES DOLL said to JAMES WRIKER:
JW->CD>The Raid in Little Havana
JW->CD>By George F. Will
JW->CD>Tuesday, April 25, 2000; Page A23
JW->CD>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/2000-04/25/012l-042500-idx
CD>h JW->CD>Some will rush to judgment. They will say that Sen. Bob Graham,
JW->CD>the Florida Democrat, was lied to. Recently, he made a plea,
JW->CD>in the Oval Office, that if the government went to Elian's home
JW->CD>to seize him, it should not do so at night. "The president of
JW->CD>the United States," says Graham, "made that commitment to me that
JW->CD>there would be no taking of this child at night." But whether
JW->CD>the president lied depends on what the definition of "night" is.
CD>*******************
JW->Lack of knowledge by civilians is understandable as is the spectacle of a
JW->tactical operation. Most tactical operations are carried out at night or
CD>la
CD>Has nothing to do with it--- a promise was made and broken.
And if it had been carried out, I am willing to bet people would have been
hurt and maybe killed.
JW->Frankly, in that situation, I would have refused an operation during the
CD>da
JW->for fear of the boy getting hurt or killed.
CD>Your call
I beleive I did say "I" above.
JW->The operation was done professionally and with a fact not widely reported
CD>b
JW->sensationalistic media, nor people looking for political gain in all
CD>this.
JW->Every agent went in with safeties on.
CD>Glad to have your assurance.
Not just mine.
James Wriker
On 05-05-00, CENTURION said to JOE LAFOON:
CC>04 May 00 16:30, Joe Lafoon wrote to Centurion:
JL> While CENTURION gunned down JOE LAFOON, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL>> Where can the rest of us see these alleged photos?
CE>> I saw them three different times over the course of the evening on
CE>> Fox News Channel. If you don't get cable or satellite, you're SOL,
CE>> which is a shame because it is the only news network that exhibits
CE>> any objectivity in reporting the news.
JL> IE, if we are not watching news YOU approve of, we are wrong by
JL> default.
JL> I don't buy it, John.
CC>Bill O'Reilly had Mike Wallace on his show last night. He pointed out
CC>that the other major networks gave little or no coverage to several high
CC>profile stories, while Fox gave coverage to all of them. Wallace agreed,
CC>although he tried to defend his own network. The point is, you can't be
CC>sure you're getting ALL of the story from ABC, et. al., and you can't rely
CC>on the part you do get being accurate. Fox may not get it right all the
CC>time, but they at least TRY to present a fair and balanced version. The
CC>rest don't even try for appearances sake any more.
I saw O'Reilly's show the other night when he was pretty much doing the same
topic with a newpaper reporter. O'Reilly pointedly made sure everyone
understood there was a difference between his show and the Fox News Network.
He ran his show and it had nothing to do with Fox news editorial policy and
was not under their control.
Joe Lafoon
While Bob Ackley gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> I don't know the whole history of Miller or Emerson. I will see how it
JL> actually went. I thought in Miller he was found innocent at the state
JL> level, and it went up from there.
BA> The verdict was upheld at the appellate level. IIRC the government
BA> waited until he was safely dead before appealing the case to the
BA> Supreme Court.
Which verdict? Was he found innocent or guilty first?
In the account I read, Miller had a pro-bono lawyer from the gitgo. When
the SC appeal came forth, the attorney could not find Miller, and didn't
look too hard, either. It didn't mention whether Miller was dead or not,
but that was the assumption.
Joe Lafoon jla...@home.com ICQ# 448659
.. Preserve wildlife...pickle a squirrel.
Charles Doll
DC-> EC> Since you asked nicely, I'll give you my opinion in
DC-> EC> the same spirit. Your stance about the jury's view
DC-> EC> of the justice of the law is correct. The action is
DC-> EC> to just refuse to convict the defendant - and they'd
DC-> EC> better do it with no explanation. The verdict has no
DC-> EC> effect on any other case.
DC->Except, as Richard Helm pointed out, as perhaps a possible
DC->warning sign to the prosectution for the next times the
DC->law is used again.
That's silly. Which prosecution set of lawyers are you going to
warn. And what is the penalty if they disobey?
-!-
ş SLMR 2.1a ş He who rides a Tiger cannot dismount.
Vern Humphrey
JL>While Vern Humphrey gunned down Joe Lafoon, Joe charged his Tau Cannon...
JL> JL> VH> If the defendant has been acquitted in a criminal case, there is no
JL> JL> VH> further action in that case.
JL> JL>So, even if Emerson goes to the SC, and God forbid loses, he still can't
JL> JL>be punished for it, correct?
JL> VH> What specifically is the matter under appeal?
JL>He was under a restraining order. He was arrested for possessing
JL>firearms, prohibited by a recent Federal law. That law is the subject of
JL>the appeal. It has been ruled unconstitutional at the District level,
JL>IIRC. I assume he was found guilty first, and he appealed. Now the Feds
JL>are appealing, presumably to the Supreme Court.
If Emerson was CONVICTED in the original trial, he can be punished. If
the case has not gone before a jury, he can be tried if the law is
upheld. If he was ACQUITTED, there could be no appeal, because the case
would be moot.
-!-
ş OLX 2.1 TD ş 1:170/302.2)
Vern Humphrey
EC> VH> Absolutely correct -- although AFTER the trial, jurors can discuss
EC> VH> their verdict and their reasons for voting as they did. It is at that
EC> VH> time they can say they voted to acquit because they disagreed with
EC> VH> either the law or the government's conduct (as in the DeLorean case.)
EC>That's a good point. After the judge thanks the jury and
EC>dismisses them, they can open up.
And it then that they deliver the broadside. :-)
-!-
ţ OLX 2.1 TD ţ 1:170/302.98)
Ed Connell
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Ed Connell <=-
DC> Are you sure about that? My understanding is the of it is
DC> that such a verdict basically says that the law that the
DC> person was brought to trial has no force as a legal instrument.
EC> Since you asked nicely, I'll give you my opinion in
EC> the same spirit. Your stance about the jury's view
EC> of the justice of the law is correct. The action is
EC> to just refuse to convict the defendant - and they'd
EC> better do it with no explanation. The verdict has no
EC> effect on any other case.
DC> Except, as Richard Helm pointed out, as perhaps a possible
DC> warning sign to the prosectution for the next times the
DC> law is used again.
He's right. I has no force of law, but folks learn
not to stub their toes after a while.
Ed
.. Cogito ergo bi-valve: I think, therefore I clam...