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Rancul Ratha
It's also heavily hinted that the Worldwound was tied to Aroden's death, which is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, mysteries of the Pathfinder setting. It's not surprising that the Worldwound may not follow the usual rules for interplanar incursions.
It was only hinted at. In Wrath of the Righteous, it was explained that there was no connection to Aroden's death except in timing. Whether Deskari was waiting for Aroden to be occupied before making his move or he was taking advantage of the chaos I forget, but /shrug. AUC.register('auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay'); AjaxBusy.register('masked', 'busy', 'auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay', null, null) The Raven Black Mar 11, 2023, 08:58 am 1 person marked this as a favorite. Temperans wrote: Archpaladin Zousha wrote: PossibleCabbage wrote: Archpaladin Zousha wrote: Do you want divine arms-races? Because that's how you get divine arms-races. I'm pretty sure Asmodeus takes perverse pleasure in owning Cheliax while actually giving them very little in return. So whatever help the infernal empire gets, is going to be with drips and drabs.Remember, Asmodeus believes his win is inevitable, as Hell is the only successful society. So he's not actually interested in helping Cheliax defeat their political enemies except in order to set the hook deeper in Cheliax. You're correct. My statement was more in response to the notion that a Good god like Iomedae or Sarenrae would do the same thing Asmodeus has done with Cheliax and open portals to Heaven or Nirvana in good-aligned nations. Presumably if such a thing occur ed, Asmodeus would use that as justification to escalate in Cheliax, which then creates the arms-race. That's why other gods don't DO what he did.Besides, if the success against the Worldwound has proved anything, mortals can get big world-shaping goals done just fine without that kind of direct divine aid, and I think that's something the Good-aligned gods want to emphasize.
"The mortals are gonna be okay. They've got this! We'll help if they ask, but they're doing great all by themselves!" Having demigods and mythic people is pretty much "direct divine aid".Its just the scale is lower than the big gods. Just a note that an atheist could become Mythic, just like anyone else.Mythic = direct divine aid does not compute.
My understanding is that the opportunity for Deskari to create the Worldwound, the Eye of Abendego and Aroden's death are all related in the sense that they were all made possible by the much bigger deal of the Death Of Prophesy.Aroden's death was the biggest consequence of that in Avistan and it's focused on in the lore because that's where most Pathfinder PCs operate. But as far as the world and the multiverse is concerned his death was a footnote to a much bigger disaster/paradigm shift.
I'm pretty sure Asmodeus takes perverse pleasure in owning Cheliax while actually giving them very little in return. So whatever help the infernal empire gets, is going to be with drips and drabs.Remember, Asmodeus believes his win is inevitable, as Hell is the only successful society. So he's not actually interested in helping Cheliax defeat their political enemies except in order to set the hook deeper in Cheliax. You're correct. My statement was more in response to the notion that a Good god like Iomedae or Sarenrae would do the same thing Asmodeus has done with Cheliax and open portals to Heaven or Nirvana in good-aligned nations. Presumably if such a thing occur ed, Asmodeus would use that as justification to escalate in Cheliax, which then creates the arms-race. That's why other gods don't DO what he did.Besides, if the success against the Worldwound has proved anything, mortals can get big world-shaping goals done just fine without that kind of direct divine aid, and I think that's something the Good-aligned gods want to emphasize.
I now wish PF2 had Mythic just so I could create such a PC. I was talking about the fact any mythic character is by definition a demi-god or well on their way to become one; Thus "divine". AUC.register('auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay'); AjaxBusy.register('masked', 'busy', 'auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay', null, null) Morhek Mar 11, 2023, 11:08 pm 1 person marked this as a favorite. Then we really need to distinguish between demigods and true divinities, and accept that there is a very distinct difference. Otherwise the mere presence of Aasimars and Tieflings would already be a violation of whatever stalemate exists in the world. Demigods and heroes imbued with divine power may have a touch of godhood to them, but (mechanically) are still bound by many mortal limits, and the whole theme of Iblydos is that there are monstrous equivalents to balance them out. Their actions upset the balance of mortal power,, and can cause empires to rise and fall, but are nothing planet-affecting which would require the gods or Asmodeus to step in and shut it down. But the moment Iomedae, Cayden and Norgorber became gods they vanished from this plane, or at least from Golarion, and it's suspicious that Aroden died just on the cusp of returning.
Interesting new theory (at least for me, pretty sure now that I think of it that others had it before) that Aroden was killed just so that full divine power (and the associated divine conflicts) would not come to Golarion and risk breaking Rovagug free.That could be enough motivation to ensure prophecy was destroyed by engineering both the disappearance of the Seal and the death of Aroden. The latter being the litmus test that prophecy was completely gone and the best safety measure that unleashed divine power would not linger on Golarion. Thus ensuring the continued existence of Rovagug's prison.
The other events that arrived at the same time could be further failsafes to ensure this, consequences of the other events or mere coincidences. Your pick. I read a while ago, and you could probably find it with a google search, someone theorised that Aroden actually killed HIMSELF because he asked Pharasma what would happen if his prophesied return happened, and her answer was that while he would lead humanity into a golden age, it would make the release of the Rough Beast inevitable and begin the end of the universe. Maybe he decides to invade Hell itself, and as he dies Asmodeus unleashes the Rough Beast out of spite. Aroden was so horrified that he broke not just his own prophecy, but ALL prophecy, by killing himself. Pharasma, despite enforcing the cosmic cycle, actually fears her own death and the uncertainty that there might not be a survivor of this universe to found the next one, and knew exactly what would happen when she told him, and in fact planned to break prophecy precisely so she could prolong the lifespan of the universe as long as she could, and used what was left of Aroden, either the ambient divine power he left behind or the soul that travelled the River of Souls, to make a unique servitor in his image in appreciation for his sacrifice.Of course, based on everything we know about Aroden such a sacrifice seems decidedly...out of character for him. So his "sacrifice" may not have been entirely voluntary. Pharasma isn't a kind goddess, and while she isn't Evil she also isn't Good.
I'm realizing this thread never got a solid post-Firebrands update, and with recent conversations so focused on Remasters and distant continents, I figured venerable old Avistan could use some attention.
Abrogail Thrune II has signed the Emancipation Edict, an act riddled with infernal legalese that freed every Chelish slave... only to bind them to military conscription and predatory loans. The 'liberation' has been a PR coup for the Chelish authorities, leaving rebel groups trying to inform the public of the truth and trying to support these new impoverished masses. Part of me wonders if this could be the earliest seed of some organized labor plotline.
Isger is doing the classic imperial frontier thing of roiling with barely-hidden unrest everywhere the Chelish military isn't actively imposing order. There's a note that the Goblins own their military defeat a generation ago and largely wish to be left alone now - and also that the region is apparently 'infested' with 'necromancer cults.' A play for independence is likely happening here relatively soon.
The text is not optimistic about change in Nidal any time soon, saying that little can be done other than assassinations and the rescue of individuals. Desnan dissidents work with the Firebrands and the Bellflower Network here, but things are pretty grim... just like ZK likes it.
Poor, poor Ravounel seems to be riddled with holes. Nidal has successfully filled it with spies. Cheliax does nothing to stop Shackles pirates from raiding them. Vyre is explicitly described as a place where "Ravounel's enemies can count on shelter," which is bleak. The kindest news for them here is that some Chelish judges are more loyal to the law than to House Thrune, and so are arbitrating in the favor of Firebrands and/or Ravounel in certain cases.
Cheliax is the imperial core, Isger is the exploited fringe, Nidal is a less-expansionist evil with much tighter control within its borders, and Ravounel has a compromised freedom that might not last... I've come to really enjoy the thematic palette the Old Cheliax region makes.
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