Fwd: Faithful Provocations with Mary E. Hunt

[Mary Hunt]

Kwok’s Substack is well worth reading. This one is about our new series of conversations, “Faithful Provocations.” We are trying to respond as we all do to the enormous needs of the day. 

Best wishes and feel free to join our thinking together. Mary E. Hunt

Begin forwarded message:

From: Kwok 'n' Roll <kwokp...@substack.com>

Subject: Faithful Provocations with Mary E. Hunt

Date: April 24, 2026 at 6:31:23 PM EDT

To: mh...@hers.com

Reply-To: Kwok 'n' Roll <reply+38c0vt&2mns5&&97d577c53bda8bd2dbca3ebbbf6ddb5c...@mg1.substack.com>

	Forwarded this email? Subscribe here for more Faithful Provocations with Mary E. Hunt How we started a weekly conversation podcast KWOK 'N' ROLL APR 24   READ IN APP   Two weeks ago, I interviewed Mary E. Hunt, co-director of Women’s Alliance for Theology, Ethics, and Ritual, to comment on how Trump and Vance have taken on the pope. We had such a great conversation that, in the middle of it, I suggested we do this weekly. I didn’t know that Mary was as enthusiastic as I was. I asked her to think about this over the weekend because I know she has a full-time job at WATER, which runs many programs and projects. Last Monday, we discussed over Zoom and decided to try out for four weeks, followed by a live session. We recorded the first provocation Thursday afternoon and this morning I already uploaded the episode to my Kwok ‘n’ Roll YouTube channel and podcast platforms. As a Catholic feminist theologian and active in the women-church movement, Mary is an astute observer of the Vatican and the Catholic Church in the U.S. and worldwide. She is a regular contributor to the website, Religious Dispatches. Mary and I knew and worked together for many years, and I have long admired her humor, insights, and candidness. I am learning to speak not only to academics but also to a broader audience. The platform I subscribed to to help my YouTube channel grow has been a godsend. My AI assistant, whom we call Annie, has advised us at every step, from the series’ title to post-production. We had considered several titles for the series, such as “Compelling Conversations.” Annie scored it and found it too general (66/100), and suggested, “Faithful Provocations” (75/100). Neither of us would have thought about that! Annie suggested that our winning formula is news attachment + theological commentary. My recording platform generated the basic thumbnail for the series, and Annie edited it, using the yellow color of my Kwok ‘n’ Roll logo for the middle stripe. Annie wants the faces facing the audience and does not like the dove in the middle, so we decided on the bottom one. Over the last two weeks, I seized the moment and interviewed Peter C. Phan, Kyle Lambelet, and Mary to comment on just war theory, Trump’s rebuff of Pope Leo, and Vance’s asking the Pope to be careful about theology. These videos performed very well, and Phan’s interview has garnered 2,889 views because it caught the news cycle. I have watched very successful channels with two people commenting on news and political affairs. The channel, “I’ve Had It,” featured two southern women, Jennifer Welch and Angie “Pumps” Sullivan, who chastised and cursed leaders from the left and right. When I was angry at the Trump administration, watching their shows could be cathartic. Award-winning broadcaster Christiane Amanpour joins forces with her ex-husband, former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Jamie Rubin, to host “The Ex Files.” They are both seasoned, intelligent, and knowledgeable. I watch them often because Amanpour was born in Iran and has a unique perspective on the Iran war. I also watch “The Rest Is Politics US” hosted by Anthony Scaramucci (The Mooch), former White House Director of Communications, and Katty Kay, US special correspondent for BBC. Kay interviews politicians in Washington D.C. and reports what she finds. The Mooch offers a perspective as a GOP insider. Mary and I plan Faithful Provocations on the fly. Annie suggested we focus on just war theory for the first episode because it is still in the news. Annie does not think abstractly. Whenever I ask her a question, she spends 7-20 seconds searching for data before answering. Her answers are truly evidence-based: how many people search for just war theory, Pope Leo, and Trump this week? But both Mary and I are tired of watching another video on just war theory, and we want to talk about women and peace instead. If it were me, I would generate a title such as “Women and Peace,” “Women and the Peace Movement,” or “Two Theologians on Peace.” Annie can’t bear any of this genteel, academic speech. It was she who proposed “Peace Is Feminist.” Most importantly, Annie helps us to think about the Beat Map. I have talked to my students about the narrative arc in writing an academic paper. The Beat Map is the same idea. You need to structure your story to pull the audience in. YouTube will count as a view if a viewer watches for more than 30 seconds. I didn’t know that the drop-off rate after the first 30 seconds is so steep. Therefore, the hook in the beginning is so important. This is a sample of the beat map Annie suggested. Though we changed the topic to just war theory, we both learned a great deal about thinking differently to attract more viewers. 🎬 BEAT MAP — 18 Minutes BEAT 1: The Provocation (0:00–1:30) 90 seconds — Hook the viewer in the first 15 seconds Open with the news peg or provocative claim. One of you states the tension directly. BEAT 2: Grounding the Question (1:30–4:00) 2.5 minutes — Why does this matter theologically? One theologian frames the historical or doctrinal context. The other adds a layer: feminist, postcolonial, or pastoral angle. End this beat with a sharpened question that drives the next segment: BEAT 3: The Theological Deep Dive (4:00–11:00) 7 minutes — The intellectual heart of the episode Trade arguments back and forth — this is dialogue, not a lecture. Aim for 3 distinct sub-points, not more: The doctrinal frame (what does the tradition say?) The postcolonial/feminist interruption (what does the tradition miss?) The contemporary application (what does this mean NOW?) BEAT 4: The Personal/Pastoral Turn (11:00–15:00) 4 minutes — From analysis to human stakes Shift from “what does the tradition say” to “what do we do with this.” Invite vulnerability: “What does this cost you personally as a person of faith?” This is where your collective “us/we” language lands emotionally. Mary Hunt’s Catholic institutional perspective and your postcolonial frame should productively diverge here — don’t smooth over the difference. BEAT 5: The Naming Moment (15:00–17:00) 2 minutes — The phrase that crystallizes everything One of you introduces the agreed-upon term or concept. The other responds to it, extends it, or pushes back — not just affirms. BEAT 6: The Open Exit (17:00–18:00) 1 minute — Leave the door open for people to continue to think about it. Do NOT summarize. Do NOT wrap up neatly. After recording, I had less than a day to finish post-production, and Annie told me to add a title card, use layered text to mark different sections of the conversation for viewers (she said academics like this), and insert an image every 2-3 minutes to retain viewers. Two talking heads can be boring for 18 minutes. I followed this and worked till the wee hours of this morning, since this is only the second video I have added so many visuals.  This week’s check-in with Annie constantly convinced me that AI is very smart and can do much of our work for us, though we can override it. No wonder people are concerned that AI will take away many jobs. This is for another conversation. Meanwhile, here is the final product. I hope you will enjoy it. Let us know what you think, and watch out for the second provocation next Friday.   SHARE     LIKE COMMENT RESTACK   © 2026 Kwok Pui Lan Unsubscribe