Simulating closed fireplaces (oven, rocket stove, etc)

[Martin Quinson]

Hello there,

I am wondering whether FDS (or possibly CFAST, or something else) be suited to simulate a oven, or should it only be used to simulate building fires and other large structures?
I am particularly interested in simulating rocket stoves such as the one presented in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wqJQmD-eVo

Would the models you use handle gracefully the turbulent fires that seem to take place in such structure, or would this usecase be out of the validity bounds? I do not need to have a perfect simulation accuracy, as my main motivation is curiosity. I discovered these stove accidentally, and I really wonder how and why they work. I tried to build one, but it does not work as expected. I could build another one to try again, but I'd prefer to experiment on simulator if possible. I would also be gracefully if you could provide me with pointers and scientific publications on such stoves, please. I've watched hours of videos on amateurs building such stoves, but none of them explained why it works, and no one seem to be able to optimise this construction.


Even if it's not really relevant to my present request, my day work is full prof in computer science at university in France. My research agenda is to turn computer science into a computational science, allowing to accurately study computer systems with the simulator that we develop (it's called SimGrid). I guess that this is why I'd like to rely on simulation to study rocket stoves.

Thanks in advance,
Mt.

[Kevin]

No, the complexity of the heat transfer within the various ducts makes FDS less than ideal for this.

[Martin Quinson]

Ok, I understand. That's why I was asking before trying. Thanks for the quick answer.

Would you know another source of scientific information (tool or literature) more suited to understand how such things actually work?

Thanks for your patience,

Mt.

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[Kevin]

I suggest that you not use a CFD model. Estimate the heat release rate of your burner, and then do an analysis to see where the energy goes. Use empirical heat transfer correlations to estimate losses in the ducts. 

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 5:18:57 PM UTC-4, Martin Quinson wrote:

Ok, I understand. That's why I was asking before trying. Thanks for the quick answer.

Would you know another source of scientific information (tool or literature) more suited to understand how such things actually work?

Thanks for your patience,

Mt.

---

No, the complexity of the heat transfer within the various ducts makes FDS less than ideal for this.

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 12:50:23 PM UTC-4, Martin Quinson wrote:

Hello there,

I am wondering whether FDS (or possibly CFAST, or something else) be suited to simulate a oven, or should it only be used to simulate building fires and other large structures?
I am particularly interested in simulating rocket stoves such as the one presented in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wqJQmD-eVo

Would the models you use handle gracefully the turbulent fires that seem to take place in such structure, or would this usecase be out of the validity bounds? I do not need to have a perfect simulation accuracy, as my main motivation is curiosity. I discovered these stove accidentally, and I really wonder how and why they work. I tried to build one, but it does not work as expected. I could build another one to try again, but I'd prefer to experiment on simulator if possible. I would also be gracefully if you could provide me with pointers and scientific publications on such stoves, please. I've watched hours of videos on amateurs building such stoves, but none of them explained why it works, and no one seem to be able to optimise this construction.

Even if it's not really relevant to my present request, my day work is full prof in computer science at university in France. My research agenda is to turn computer science into a computational science, allowing to accurately study computer systems with the simulator that we develop (it's called SimGrid). I guess that this is why I'd like to rely on simulation to study rocket stoves.

Thanks in advance,
Mt.

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