FDS WALL TEMP DEVC - "boundary cell to assign" located on OBST/Mesh Cell
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Jesse
May 9, 2011, 2:51:07 PM5/9/11
to FDS and Smokeview Discussions
I have been having some issues with the FDS 'WALL TEMPERATURE' device
command and was hoping to seek assistance.
My objective is to apply the device on an obstruction (i.e. column)
having specified thermal properties, to obtain a surface temperature.
I've been receiving the following error message when attempting to run
the simulation:
"ERROR: Reposition DEVC No. X. FDS cannot determine which boundary
cell to assign."
I've made sure the device is positioned on a surface obstruction,
located on a mesh cell, and have applied all 6 IOR directions (i.e. x
= 1, -1, y = 2, -2, and z = 3, -3).
Would anyone know what could be the issue? The code is below...
Many thanks,
Jesse
&MESH IJK=30.0,27.0,10.0, XB=-0,30.0, 0.0,17.0, 0.0,5.0 /
&MESH IJK=12.0,12.0,10.0, XB=9,12.0, 9.0,12.0, 0.0,5.0 /
&MESH IJK=8.0,8.0,10.0, XB=10.5,11.5, 9.5,10.5, 0.0,5.0 /
&TIME T_END=2700./
&MISC TMPA=21., CO_PRODUCTION= .TRUE., RESTART=.FALSE. / INDOOR
TEMPERATURE
******************************************************************************
BUILDING MATERIALS
******************************************************************************
&MATL ID = 'GYPSUM'
CONDUCTIVITY = 0.17
SPECIFIC_HEAT = 1.09
DENSITY = 800. /
&SURF ID = 'WALL'
COLOR = 'FOREST GREEN'
MATL_ID = 'GYPSUM'
THICKNESS = 0.0159 /
&MATL ID = 'CONCRETE'
CONDUCTIVITY = 1.4
SPECIFIC_HEAT = 0.88
DENSITY = 2300. /
&SURF ID = 'FLOOR'
COLOR = 'GRAY'
MATL_ID = 'CONCRETE'
THICKNESS = 0.010 /
&MATL ID = 'STEEL'
FYI = 'SFPE 4th EDITION'
CONDUCTIVITY = 45
SPECIFIC_HEAT = 0.5
DENSITY = 7850. /
&SURF ID = 'COLUMN'
COLOR = 'BLUE'
MATL_ID = 'STEEL'
THICKNESS = 0.0127 /
*********************************************************************************
FIRE DATA
*********************************************************************************
&SURF ID='BURNER', HRRPUA=6000, TAU_Q=-735, COLOR='RED' / med t-
SQUARED FIRE WITH TGROWTh
&OBST XB= 10.0,11.0, 10.0,11.0, 0.5,0.5, SURF_IDS= 'BURNER', 'INERT',
'INERT' /
&REAC ID = 'POLYETHYLENE'
SOOT_YIELD = 0.06
C = 2.
H = 4. /
**********************************************************************************
BUILDING DETAILS
**********************************************************************************
&VENT MB='ZMIN', SURF_ID='FLOOR' / CONCRETE FLOOR
&VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='FLOOR' / CONCRETE FLOOR ASSEMBLY ABOVE
&OBST XB= 0.0,30.0, 0.0,0.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL', OUTLINE=.TRUE. /
wall
&OBST XB= 0.0,0.0, 0.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL', OUTLINE=.TRUE. /
wall
&OBST XB= 30.0,30.0, 0.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / wall
&OBST XB= 0.0,30.0, 27.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / wall
&OBST XB= 11.0,11.0, 10.0,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
&OBST XB= 11.0,11.25, 10.0,10.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
&OBST XB= 11.25,11.25, 10.0,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
&OBST XB= 11.0,11.25, 10.25,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
***********************************************************************************
WALL TEMP DEVICES
***********************************************************************************
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 1.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW1' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 2.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW2' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 2.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW3' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 3.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW4' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 3.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW5' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 4.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW6' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 4.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW7' /
************************************************************************************
&TAIL /
command and was hoping to seek assistance.
My objective is to apply the device on an obstruction (i.e. column)
having specified thermal properties, to obtain a surface temperature.
I've been receiving the following error message when attempting to run
the simulation:
"ERROR: Reposition DEVC No. X. FDS cannot determine which boundary
cell to assign."
I've made sure the device is positioned on a surface obstruction,
located on a mesh cell, and have applied all 6 IOR directions (i.e. x
= 1, -1, y = 2, -2, and z = 3, -3).
Would anyone know what could be the issue? The code is below...
Many thanks,
Jesse
&MESH IJK=30.0,27.0,10.0, XB=-0,30.0, 0.0,17.0, 0.0,5.0 /
&MESH IJK=12.0,12.0,10.0, XB=9,12.0, 9.0,12.0, 0.0,5.0 /
&MESH IJK=8.0,8.0,10.0, XB=10.5,11.5, 9.5,10.5, 0.0,5.0 /
&TIME T_END=2700./
&MISC TMPA=21., CO_PRODUCTION= .TRUE., RESTART=.FALSE. / INDOOR
TEMPERATURE
******************************************************************************
BUILDING MATERIALS
******************************************************************************
&MATL ID = 'GYPSUM'
CONDUCTIVITY = 0.17
SPECIFIC_HEAT = 1.09
DENSITY = 800. /
&SURF ID = 'WALL'
COLOR = 'FOREST GREEN'
MATL_ID = 'GYPSUM'
THICKNESS = 0.0159 /
&MATL ID = 'CONCRETE'
CONDUCTIVITY = 1.4
SPECIFIC_HEAT = 0.88
DENSITY = 2300. /
&SURF ID = 'FLOOR'
COLOR = 'GRAY'
MATL_ID = 'CONCRETE'
THICKNESS = 0.010 /
&MATL ID = 'STEEL'
FYI = 'SFPE 4th EDITION'
CONDUCTIVITY = 45
SPECIFIC_HEAT = 0.5
DENSITY = 7850. /
&SURF ID = 'COLUMN'
COLOR = 'BLUE'
MATL_ID = 'STEEL'
THICKNESS = 0.0127 /
*********************************************************************************
FIRE DATA
*********************************************************************************
&SURF ID='BURNER', HRRPUA=6000, TAU_Q=-735, COLOR='RED' / med t-
SQUARED FIRE WITH TGROWTh
&OBST XB= 10.0,11.0, 10.0,11.0, 0.5,0.5, SURF_IDS= 'BURNER', 'INERT',
'INERT' /
&REAC ID = 'POLYETHYLENE'
SOOT_YIELD = 0.06
C = 2.
H = 4. /
**********************************************************************************
BUILDING DETAILS
**********************************************************************************
&VENT MB='ZMIN', SURF_ID='FLOOR' / CONCRETE FLOOR
&VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='FLOOR' / CONCRETE FLOOR ASSEMBLY ABOVE
&OBST XB= 0.0,30.0, 0.0,0.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL', OUTLINE=.TRUE. /
wall
&OBST XB= 0.0,0.0, 0.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL', OUTLINE=.TRUE. /
wall
&OBST XB= 30.0,30.0, 0.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / wall
&OBST XB= 0.0,30.0, 27.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / wall
&OBST XB= 11.0,11.0, 10.0,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
&OBST XB= 11.0,11.25, 10.0,10.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
&OBST XB= 11.25,11.25, 10.0,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
&OBST XB= 11.0,11.25, 10.25,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
***********************************************************************************
WALL TEMP DEVICES
***********************************************************************************
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 1.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW1' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 2.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW2' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 2.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW3' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 3.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW4' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 3.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW5' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 4.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW6' /
&DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 4.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
ID='TW7' /
************************************************************************************
&TAIL /
Kevin
May 9, 2011, 3:44:41 PM5/9/11
to FDS and Smokeview Discussions
In Smokeview, hit the "q" button to see if your geometry shifts.
Chances are that you using a very coarse mesh.
On May 9, 2:51 pm, Jesse <ouelletteje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have been having some issues with the FDS 'WALL TEMPERATURE' device
> command and was hoping to seek assistance.
>
> My objective is to apply the device on an obstruction (i.e. column)
> having specified thermal properties, to obtain a surface temperature.
> I've been receiving the following error message when attempting to run
> the simulation:
>
> "ERROR: Reposition DEVC No. X. FDS cannot determine which boundary
> cell to assign."
>
> I've made sure the device is positioned on a surface obstruction,
> located on a mesh cell, and have applied all 6 IOR directions (i.e. x
> = 1, -1, y = 2, -2, and z = 3, -3).
>
> Would anyone know what could be the issue? The code is below...
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jesse
>
> &MESH IJK=30.0,27.0,10.0, XB=-0,30.0, 0.0,17.0, 0.0,5.0 /
> &MESH IJK=12.0,12.0,10.0, XB=9,12.0, 9.0,12.0, 0.0,5.0 /
> &MESH IJK=8.0,8.0,10.0, XB=10.5,11.5, 9.5,10.5, 0.0,5.0 /
>
> &TIME T_END=2700./
> &MISC TMPA=21., CO_PRODUCTION= .TRUE., RESTART=.FALSE. / INDOOR
> TEMPERATURE
>
> ******************************************************************************
> BUILDING MATERIALS
> ******************************************************************************
> *********************************************************************************
> FIRE DATA
> *********************************************************************************
> BUILDING DETAILS
> **********************************************************************************
> WALL TEMP DEVICES
> ***********************************************************************************
> &TAIL /
Chances are that you using a very coarse mesh.
On May 9, 2:51 pm, Jesse <ouelletteje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have been having some issues with the FDS 'WALL TEMPERATURE' device
> command and was hoping to seek assistance.
>
> My objective is to apply the device on an obstruction (i.e. column)
> having specified thermal properties, to obtain a surface temperature.
> I've been receiving the following error message when attempting to run
> the simulation:
>
> "ERROR: Reposition DEVC No. X. FDS cannot determine which boundary
> cell to assign."
>
> I've made sure the device is positioned on a surface obstruction,
> located on a mesh cell, and have applied all 6 IOR directions (i.e. x
> = 1, -1, y = 2, -2, and z = 3, -3).
>
> Would anyone know what could be the issue? The code is below...
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jesse
>
> &MESH IJK=30.0,27.0,10.0, XB=-0,30.0, 0.0,17.0, 0.0,5.0 /
> &MESH IJK=12.0,12.0,10.0, XB=9,12.0, 9.0,12.0, 0.0,5.0 /
> &MESH IJK=8.0,8.0,10.0, XB=10.5,11.5, 9.5,10.5, 0.0,5.0 /
>
> &TIME T_END=2700./
> &MISC TMPA=21., CO_PRODUCTION= .TRUE., RESTART=.FALSE. / INDOOR
> TEMPERATURE
>
> BUILDING MATERIALS
> ******************************************************************************
> FIRE DATA
> *********************************************************************************
> &SURF ID='BURNER', HRRPUA=6000, TAU_Q=-735, COLOR='RED' / med t-
> SQUARED FIRE WITH TGROWTh
> &OBST XB= 10.0,11.0, 10.0,11.0, 0.5,0.5, SURF_IDS= 'BURNER', 'INERT',
> 'INERT' /
> &REAC ID = 'POLYETHYLENE'
> SOOT_YIELD = 0.06
> C = 2.
> H = 4. /
>
> **********************************************************************************
> SQUARED FIRE WITH TGROWTh
> &OBST XB= 10.0,11.0, 10.0,11.0, 0.5,0.5, SURF_IDS= 'BURNER', 'INERT',
> 'INERT' /
> &REAC ID = 'POLYETHYLENE'
> SOOT_YIELD = 0.06
> C = 2.
> H = 4. /
>
> BUILDING DETAILS
> **********************************************************************************
> &VENT MB='ZMIN', SURF_ID='FLOOR' / CONCRETE FLOOR
> &VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='FLOOR' / CONCRETE FLOOR ASSEMBLY ABOVE
>
> &OBST XB= 0.0,30.0, 0.0,0.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL', OUTLINE=.TRUE. /
> wall
> &OBST XB= 0.0,0.0, 0.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL', OUTLINE=.TRUE. /
> wall
> &OBST XB= 30.0,30.0, 0.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / wall
> &OBST XB= 0.0,30.0, 27.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / wall
>
> &OBST XB= 11.0,11.0, 10.0,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
> &OBST XB= 11.0,11.25, 10.0,10.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
> &OBST XB= 11.25,11.25, 10.0,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
> &OBST XB= 11.0,11.25, 10.25,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
>
> ***********************************************************************************
> &VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='FLOOR' / CONCRETE FLOOR ASSEMBLY ABOVE
>
> &OBST XB= 0.0,30.0, 0.0,0.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL', OUTLINE=.TRUE. /
> wall
> &OBST XB= 0.0,0.0, 0.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL', OUTLINE=.TRUE. /
> wall
> &OBST XB= 30.0,30.0, 0.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / wall
> &OBST XB= 0.0,30.0, 27.0,27.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='WALL',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / wall
>
> &OBST XB= 11.0,11.0, 10.0,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
> &OBST XB= 11.0,11.25, 10.0,10.0, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
> &OBST XB= 11.25,11.25, 10.0,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
> &OBST XB= 11.0,11.25, 10.25,10.25, 0.0,5.0, SURF_ID='COLUMN',
> OUTLINE=.TRUE. / HSS column
>
> WALL TEMP DEVICES
> ***********************************************************************************
>
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 1.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW1' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 2.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW2' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 2.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW3' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 3.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW4' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 3.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW5' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 4.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW6' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 4.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW7' /
>
> ************************************************************************************
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 1.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW1' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 2.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW2' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 2.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW3' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 3.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW4' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 3.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW5' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 4.0, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW6' /
> &DEVC XYZ= 11.0, 10.125, 4.5, QUANTITY='WALL TEMPERATURE', IOR=-1,
> ID='TW7' /
>
> &TAIL /
Jesse
May 10, 2011, 7:36:02 AM5/10/11
to FDS and Smokeview Discussions
Hi Kevin,
Geometry did not shift using the "q" button in Smokeview. The
prescribed mesh increment over the obstruction with the wall temp devc
is 0.125, would this be too coarse for FDS to not determine which
boundary cell to assign? I've made sure the devices are positioned on
a mesh nodes...
Thanks,
Jesse
Geometry did not shift using the "q" button in Smokeview. The
prescribed mesh increment over the obstruction with the wall temp devc
is 0.125, would this be too coarse for FDS to not determine which
boundary cell to assign? I've made sure the devices are positioned on
a mesh nodes...
Thanks,
Jesse
Kevin
May 10, 2011, 7:43:55 AM5/10/11
to FDS and Smokeview Discussions
Simplify the input file and submit it to the Issue Tracker. Do not cut
and paste input files here because that often causes errors when I try
to run it.
> > > &TAIL /- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
and paste input files here because that often causes errors when I try
to run it.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jesse
May 10, 2011, 8:02:01 AM5/10/11
to FDS and Smokeview Discussions
Apologies for my ignorance, but how to I submit to Issue Tracker?
Kevin
May 10, 2011, 8:12:46 AM5/10/11
to FDS and Smokeview Discussions
Peter
May 11, 2011, 5:25:56 AM5/11/11
to FDS and Smokeview Discussions
Before you put it in the issue tracker you may wish to look a bit more
at some of the issues in your input file, tidy it up so it is simpler
and take out some of the anomalies:
In your first &MESH line you currently have "&MESH IJK=30.0,27.0,10.0,
XB=-0,30.0, 0.0,17.0, 0.0,5.0 /"
I suspect you want "&MESH IJK=30.0,17.0,10.0, XB=-0,30.0, 0.0,17.0,
0.0,5.0 /"
Having J=27 distorts the Y direction and then the meshes don't align.
The manual clearly states that meshes have to align in FDS5.
Next you have embedded meshes, whilst the manual doesn't specifically
exclude that it does raise problems, you may wish to look at whether
you can avoid embedded / overlaping meshes.
Tinkering with the file the simulation works with meshes 2 & 3 only,
therefore the issue comes with mesh 1. Kevin would need to comment
but it is likely that mesh 1 cannot resolve and therefore create the
column obstruction as it is too small for the mesh resolution,
therefore mesh 1 does not include the column and so cannot find a
surface to place the device upon. Read the manual section 6.3.4 about
mesh alignment and you will realise that what you are trying to do is
inefficient at best and probably causing the problem.
at some of the issues in your input file, tidy it up so it is simpler
and take out some of the anomalies:
In your first &MESH line you currently have "&MESH IJK=30.0,27.0,10.0,
XB=-0,30.0, 0.0,17.0, 0.0,5.0 /"
I suspect you want "&MESH IJK=30.0,17.0,10.0, XB=-0,30.0, 0.0,17.0,
0.0,5.0 /"
Having J=27 distorts the Y direction and then the meshes don't align.
The manual clearly states that meshes have to align in FDS5.
Next you have embedded meshes, whilst the manual doesn't specifically
exclude that it does raise problems, you may wish to look at whether
you can avoid embedded / overlaping meshes.
Tinkering with the file the simulation works with meshes 2 & 3 only,
therefore the issue comes with mesh 1. Kevin would need to comment
but it is likely that mesh 1 cannot resolve and therefore create the
column obstruction as it is too small for the mesh resolution,
therefore mesh 1 does not include the column and so cannot find a
surface to place the device upon. Read the manual section 6.3.4 about
mesh alignment and you will realise that what you are trying to do is
inefficient at best and probably causing the problem.
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