Fire isn't reacting with environment (Pallets and Cartoon)

[Lucas]

Hi!

I'm doing my final work to be graduated as Mechanical Engineering.

My work is about a Warehouse Drive In Rack with pallets and cartoon boxes .

I'm tryng to simulate an experiment, where them start the fire with a lighter.

So I want start the fire for 5 seconds and stop that. So, the fire will spread.

But when I run, the fire doesn't spread.

Sometimes I had an error "Warning, SURF Pallet has BURN_AWAY set but zero combustible density.

If I put the HRRUPA =500 for 30s, when I look to Excel results, the maximum is the 500 HRRUPA seted. It means that the fire isn't reacting with the materials. If it was reacting, so the HRRUPA should pass the 500 HRRUPA, right?

Here is my code:

&HEAD CHID='Geometria1', TITLE='Teste_Geometria' /

&TIME T_END=60 /tempo de simulacao

&MISC TMPA=31/ temperatura ambiente

&MESH IJK=38,18,60, XB=0.0,3.8,0.0,1.8,0.0,6.0 /Mesh de 10 cm

/Propriedades dos Materiais

/Estrutura de Ferro

&MATL ID='STEEL', CONDUCTIVITY=25, SPECIFIC_HEAT=0.45, DENSITY=7600 /

&SURF ID = 'Estrutura', DEFAULT = .FALSE., COLOR='BLUE', &MATL ID='STEEL' / Estrutura azul

&SURF ID = 'Estrutura2', DEFAULT = .FALSE., COLOR='ORANGE', &MATL ID='STEEL' / Estrutura laranja

/Pallets

&MATL ID='PLASTIC', CONDUCTIVITY=0.04, SPECIFIC_HEAT=0.103, DENSITY=300 /

&SURF ID = 'Pallet', DEFAULT = .FALSE.,RGB = 190,190,190, &MATL ID='PLASTIC', BURN_AWAY=.TRUE. / Pallet Cinza

/Papelao

&MATL ID='CARTOON', CONDUCTIVITY=0.064, SPECIFIC_HEAT=0.103, DENSITY=1600, HEAT_OF_COMBUSTION=15000./

&SURF ID = 'Papelao', DEFAULT = .FALSE.,RGB = 190,190,0, &MATL ID='CARTOON', BURN_AWAY=.TRUE.  / Caixas Papelao

/Criando o Drive In

/&OBST XB=0.3,2.95,0.35,1.45,0,4.85, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / bloco solido Drive in

&OBST XB=0.3,0.4,0.35,0.45,0,4.85, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / viga1

&OBST XB=2.85,2.95,0.35,0.45,0,4.85, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / viga2

&OBST XB=0.3,0.4,1.35,1.45,0,4.85, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / viga3

&OBST XB=2.85,2.95,1.35,1.45,0,4.85, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / viga4

&OBST XB=0.3,0.4,0.45,1.35,0.1,0.2, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasA

&OBST XB=0.3,0.4,0.45,1.35,1.1625,1.2625, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasA

&OBST XB=0.3,0.4,0.45,1.35,2.325,2.425, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasA

&OBST XB=0.3,0.4,0.45,1.35,3.4875,3.5875, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasA

&OBST XB=0.3,0.4,0.45,1.35,4.65,4.75, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasA

&OBST XB=2.85,2.95,0.45,1.35,0.1,0.2, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasB

&OBST XB=2.85,2.95,0.45,1.35,1.1625,1.2625, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasB

&OBST XB=2.85,2.95,0.45,1.35,2.325,2.425, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasB

&OBST XB=2.85,2.95,0.45,1.35,3.4875,3.5875, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasB

&OBST XB=2.85,2.95,0.45,1.35,4.65,4.75, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura' / barrasB

&OBST XB=0.4,2.85,0.35,0.45,1.85,1.95, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=0.4,2.85,1.35,1.45,1.85,1.95, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=0.5,0.6,0.45,1.35,1.85,1.95, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=2.65,2.75,0.45,1.35,1.85,1.95, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=1.175,1.275,0.45,1.35,1.85,1.95, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=1.975,2.075,0.45,1.35,1.85,1.95, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=0.4,2.85,0.35,0.45,3.43,3.53, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=0.4,2.85,1.35,1.45,3.43,3.53, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=0.5,0.6,0.45,1.35,3.43,3.53, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=2.65,2.75,0.45,1.35,3.43,3.53, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=1.175,1.275,0.45,1.35,3.43,3.53, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

&OBST XB=1.975,2.075,0.45,1.35,3.43,3.53, SURF_ID = 'Estrutura2' / baseLaranja

/Criando os Pallets

&OBST XB=0.4625,1.5625,0.35,1.45,0,0.15, SURF_ID = 'Pallet' / Pallet1

&OBST XB=1.725,2.825,0.35,1.45,0,0.15, SURF_ID = 'Pallet' / Pallet2

&OBST XB=0.4625,1.5625,0.35,1.45,2,2.15, SURF_ID = 'Pallet' / Pallet3

&OBST XB=1.725,2.825,0.35,1.45,2,2.15, SURF_ID = 'Pallet' / Pallet4

&OBST XB=0.4625,1.5625,0.35,1.45,3.53,3.68, SURF_ID = 'Pallet' / Pallet5

&OBST XB=1.725,2.825,0.35,1.45,3.53,3.68, SURF_ID = 'Pallet' / Pallet6

/Criando as Caixas

/Pallet1

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.35,0.9,0.15,0.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.9,1.45,0.15,0.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.35,0.9,0.65,1.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.9,1.45,0.65,1.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.35,0.9,1.15,1.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.9,1.45,1.15,1.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.35,0.9,0.15,0.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.9,1.45,0.15,0.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.35,0.9,0.65,1.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.9,1.45,0.65,1.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.35,0.9,1.15,1.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.9,1.45,1.15,1.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

/Pallet2

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.35,0.9,0.15,0.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.9,1.45,0.15,0.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.35,0.9,0.65,1.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.9,1.45,0.65,1.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.35,0.9,1.15,1.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.9,1.45,1.15,1.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.6875,0.35,0.9,0.15,0.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.6875,0.9,1.45,0.15,0.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.6875,0.35,0.9,0.65,1.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.6875,0.9,1.45,0.65,1.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.6875,0.35,0.9,1.15,1.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.6875,0.9,1.45,1.15,1.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

/Pallet3

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.35,0.9,2.15,2.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.9,1.45,2.15,2.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.35,0.9,2.65,3.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=0.6,1.1,0.9,1.45,2.65,3.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.35,0.9,2.15,2.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.9,1.45,2.15,2.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.35,0.9,2.65,3.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.9,1.45,2.65,3.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

/Pallet4

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.35,0.9,2.15,2.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.9,1.45,2.15,2.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.35,0.9,2.65,3.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.9,1.45,2.65,3.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.6875,0.35,0.9,2.15,2.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.6875,0.9,1.45,2.15,2.65, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.5875,0.35,0.9,2.65,2.95, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=2.1875,2.6875,0.9,1.45,2.65,3.15, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

/Pallet5

&OBST XB=0.4,0.9,0.35,0.9,3.68,4.18, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=0.4,0.9,0.9,1.45,3.68,4.18, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=0.4,0.9,0.35,0.9,4.18,4.68, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=0.4,0.9,0.9,1.45,4.18,4.68, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.35,0.9,3.68,4.18, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.9,1.45,3.68,4.18, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.35,0.9,4.18,4.68, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.1,1.6,0.9,1.45,4.18,4.68, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.45,1.95,0.7,1.2,4.68,5.18, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

/Pallet6

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.35,0.9,3.68,4.18, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.9,1.45,3.68,4.18, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.35,0.9,4.18,4.68, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=1.6875,2.1875,0.9,1.45,4.18,4.68, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=2.3875,2.925,0.35,0.9,3.68,4.18, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=2.3875,2.925,0.9,1.45,3.68,4.18, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao1

&OBST XB=2.3875,2.925,0.35,0.9,4.18,4.68, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&OBST XB=2.3875,2.925,0.9,1.45,4.18,4.68, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' / Papelao2

&REAC FUEL = 'Papelao', SOOT_YIELD = 0.015, FORMULA='C6H12O6'/ fórmula química da Celulose

&SURF ID='Superf_quente', HRRPUA=500, COLOR='RED' /

&DEVC ID='det1', XYZ=0,0,0, QUANTITY='TIME', SETPOINT=5., INITIAL_STATE=.TRUE. /

&VENT XB=1.3,1.4,0.35,0.35,0.85,0.95, SURF_ID='Superf_quente',DEVC_ID='det1' / Superf_quente

&SLCF PBX=1.3, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i

&SLCF PBX=1.4, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i

&SLCF PBY=1.4, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i

&SLCF PBY=1.3, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i

&SLCF PBY=0.9, QUANTITY='PRESSURE' / monitora pressão em y=j

&SLCF PBX=2.9, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás

&SLCF PBY=0.9, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás

&SLCF PBZ=3, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás

&DEVC ID='TC1', XYZ=0.05,1,5.6, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/

&DEVC ID='TC2', XYZ=3.05,1,5.6, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/

&DEVC ID='TC3', XYZ=2.675,0.6,3.525, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/

&TAIL / End of file.

[Salah Benkorichi]

You haven't defined the pyrolysis parameters on your materials to burn. There are different ways to achieve what you're looking for;

- define a heat release rate ramp of the material going to be burning, and then assign it to your material, once a certain temperature is reached on the surface, you could assume it starts burning and it will follow such experiments results; (this is probably the easiest).

- define the Arrhenius parameters for each of your material, and then define how you're material is going to be burning (i.e. virgin material ---> material 2 + gas ---> char, or could just via , virgin material ---> gas ) , or just define the reference temperature, which ever available form data.

Also, note that the small torch is very small to sustain your fire especially if you choose option 2 and you need a higher one to sustain the burning.

Lastly, your domain is sealed and you would need some opening to sustain your fire once the objects starts burning.

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[Lucas]

Hi, Salah!

Thanks for answer.

Do you say like that?

I don't find in the FDS Guide how to open my domain.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/fds-smv/CABK0Y1mjrFRTKMW2OwoGOoV8BqKX_6LCmEisoMr0J2cMnHjBVg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Salah Benkorichi]

Yes, that's one of the simplest ways.

&VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='OPEN'  << this will get the top ceiling open; and you have to change between MAX, and MIN, and change form X,Y,Z depending on which side you want it to be opened. 

There are many examples that come with the bundle you've installed. Search on the user guide and you should see more.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/fds-smv/CAKb7bs9VFYRiry2UOdNijsMnx3w5A%3D0sdSMXr2ooyzRiowk31Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Lucas]

Thanks again!

I did a lot of changes (almost 30) and I'm not solving the problem of reaction.

Sorry if I'm boring you, but I realy tried here and I didn't get it yet.

Can you take a look again in my code bellow, pelase?

&HEAD CHID='Validacao', TITLE='Teste_Geometria' /

&TIME T_END=60 /tempo de simulacao

&MISC TMPA=31/ temperatura ambiente

&MESH IJK=38,18,60, XB=0.0,3.8,0.0,1.8,0.0,6.0 /Mesh de 10 cm

&VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='OPEN'/

/Propriedades dos Materiais

/Estrutura de Ferro

&MATL ID='STEEL', CONDUCTIVITY=25, SPECIFIC_HEAT=0.45, DENSITY=7600 /

&SURF ID = 'Estrutura', DEFAULT = .FALSE., COLOR='BLUE', &MATL ID='STEEL' / Estrutura azul

&SURF ID = 'Estrutura2', DEFAULT = .FALSE., COLOR='ORANGE', &MATL ID='STEEL' / Estrutura laranja

/Pallets

&MATL ID='PLASTIC', CONDUCTIVITY=0.04, SPECIFIC_HEAT=0.103, DENSITY=300, HEAT_OF_COMBUSTION=5000./

&SURF ID = 'Pallet', DEFAULT = .FALSE.,RGB = 190,190,190, &MATL ID='PLASTIC', BURN_AWAY=.TRUE. / Pallet Cinza

/Papelao

&MATL ID='CARTOON', CONDUCTIVITY=0.064, SPECIFIC_HEAT=0.103, DENSITY=1600/

&SURF ID = 'Papelao', DEFAULT = .FALSE.,RGB = 190,190,0, &MATL ID='CARTOON', HRRPUA=1000., IGNITION_TEMPERATURE=150., RAMP_Q = 'fire_ramp', BURN_AWAY=.TRUE.  / Caixas Papelao

&RAMP ID='fire_ramp', T= 0.0, F=0.0 /

&RAMP ID='fire_ramp', T= 5.0, F=1.0 /

&RAMP ID='fire_ramp', T= 60.0, F=1.0 /

&REAC FUEL = 'Papelao', SOOT_YIELD = 0.015,FORMULA='C6H12O6', HEAT_OF_COMBUSTION = 15000./ fórmula química da Celulose 

&SLCF PBX=1.3, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i

&SLCF PBX=1.4, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i

&SLCF PBY=1.4, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i

&SLCF PBY=1.3, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i

&SLCF PBY=0.9, QUANTITY='PRESSURE' / monitora pressão em y=j

&SLCF PBX=2.9, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás

&SLCF PBY=0.9, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás

&SLCF PBZ=3, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás

&DEVC ID='TC1', XYZ=0.05,1,5.6, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/

&DEVC ID='TC2', XYZ=3.05,1,5.6, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/

&DEVC ID='TC3', XYZ=2.675,0.6,3.525, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/

&TAIL / End of file.

[dr_jfloyd]

Modeling fire growth rates rather than specifying a fixed fire size is an advanced use of FDS. I suggest you stop trying to do a complex input file representing the final calculation and start small with simple input files that test each part of your simulation.  Do a virtual cone test for each of your burning materials (see the User's Guide) and see if they heat up and respond appropriately to specific heat fluxes. Then look to do simple larger scale problems of a single OBST that you heat up and see if that works as expected. Only once you have all your materials working, then go to the full scale problem.

You have a high molecular weight fuel for which you have not defined a specific heat. See the User's Guide discussion on Enthalpy in 14.1.3.

Your heat of combustion seems low for the plastic pallet. These are typically HDPE and PP which have much higher heats of combustion than 5000 kJ/kg.

Your specific heats seem low. Wood and typical plastics used in pallets both have specific heats that are an order of magnitude larger than 0.1 kJ/kg/K.

You have defined the pallet SURF as burn away but have not specified a pyrolysis model.

150 C seems low for the ignition of cardboard, event piloted ignition.

[Lucas]

Thanks, Dr. J.Floyd!

I was confused about the pyrolysis, but now I found.

FYI: I'm trying to reproduce this experiment: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360132311000229

After, I will add Sprinklers and test others pallets positions to avoid the fire.

I'm doing now a simple experiment as you suggested, but I have a problem.

I'm having this erro: ERROR: SURF_ID Papelao does not exist (MPI Process: 0, CHID: Validacao)

Do you have some tips? Thanks so much for your help!

My code:

&HEAD CHID='Validacao', TITLE='Teste_Geometria' /

&TIME T_END=60 /tempo de simulacao

&MISC TMPA=31/ temperatura ambiente

&MESH IJK=38,18,60, XB=0.0,3.8,0.0,1.8,0.0,6.0 /Mesh de 10 cm

&VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='OPEN'/

/Propriedades dos Materiais

/Cartoon

&REAC FUEL = 'C6H12O6'

C=12.0,

H=26.0,

O=6.0,

SOOT_YIELD = 0.015,

HEAT_OF_COMBUSTION = 15000./ Celulose

&MATL ID ='CARTOON'

EMISSIVITY = 0.7,

NU_SPEC=1,

SPEC_ID='C6H12O6',

CONDUCTIVITY = 0.064,

SPECIFIC_HEAT = 0.103,

DENSITY = 1600.,

N_REACTIONS = 1/

&SURF ID = 'Papelao'

COLOR = "BLUE",

&MATL ID='CARTOON',

IGNITION_TEMPERATURE=150./

/Cartoon boxes

/On Pallet1

&OBST XB=0.5,2.5,0.5,1.5,0.15,1, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&SURF ID='Hot_Point', TMP_FRONT=260, COLOR='RED' /used to set fire

&VENT XB=1.3,1.4,0.5,0.5,0.85,0.95, SURF_ID='Hot_Point' /

&TAIL / End of file.

[dr_jfloyd]

"&MATL ID" is not a valid keyword for &SURF. 

&SURF ID = 'Papelao'

COLOR = "BLUE",

  &MATL ID='CARTOON',

  IGNITION_TEMPERATURE=150./

[rodrigo.alm...@gmail.com]

Hi Lucas.

=> ERROR: SURF_ID Papelao does not exist -> this means that you have to create (and give some characteristics) to this surf named "papaleao".

If adequate to you, send and email and I can help you in Portuguese. 

my email: rodrigo.alm...@gmail.com 

[Lucas Boaz]

Hi!

I withdrew the "&" from MATL_ID, but I still have the error: SURF_ID Papelao does not exist.

I tried add other parameters too, but it doesn't work.

My code now:

&HEAD CHID='Validacao', TITLE='Teste_Geometria' /
&TIME T_END=60 /tempo de simulacao
&MISC TMPA=31/ temperatura ambiente
&MESH IJK=38,18,60, XB=0.0,3.8,0.0,1.8,0.0,6.0 /Mesh de 10 cm

&VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='OPEN'/

/Propriedades dos Materiais

/Cartoon

&REAC FUEL = 'C6H12O6'
C=12.0,
H=26.0,
O=6.0,
SOOT_YIELD = 0.015,
HEAT_OF_COMBUSTION = 15000./ Celulose

&MATL ID ='CARTOON'
EMISSIVITY = 0.7,
NU_SPEC=1,
SPEC_ID='C6H12O6',
CONDUCTIVITY = 0.064,
SPECIFIC_HEAT = 0.103,
DENSITY = 1600.,
N_REACTIONS = 1/

&SURF ID = 'Papelao'

DEFAULT = .TRUE.
COLOR = "BLUE",
MATL_ID ='CARTOON',
BACKING ='EXPOSED',
THICKNESS = 0.2,

IGNITION_TEMPERATURE=150./

/Cartoon boxes
/On Pallet1
&OBST XB=0.5,2.5,0.5,1.5,0.15,1, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&SURF ID='Hot_Point', TMP_FRONT=260, COLOR='RED' /used to set fire
&VENT XB=1.3,1.4,0.5,0.5,0.85,0.95, SURF_ID='Hot_Point' /

&TAIL / End of file.

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[Kevin McGrattan]

This is what I see when I run the case

 Starting FDS ...

 MPI Process      0 started on burn036

 Reading FDS input file ...


ERROR: Problem with MATL CARTOON, REAC 1. Set REFERENCE_TEMPERATURE or E, A (CHID: Validacao)

ERROR: FDS was improperly set-up - FDS stopped (CHID: Validacao)

[Lucas Boaz]

Thanks, Grattan, Floyd, Salah and Rodrigo.

I ran the simulation!

It is working. You are the best!!!!!

But I have some questions again kkkkk

1) The cartoon box started the reaction, but I didn't put the ignition temperature and the Hot Point to simulate the lighter (in the code below, it is with ' / ').

2) Another question is: Why does the simulation just show the smoke? I'd like to see the fire too.

My new code:

&HEAD CHID='Teste', TITLE='Teste_Geometria' /

&TIME T_END=60 /tempo de simulacao
&MISC TMPA=31/ temperatura ambiente
&MESH IJK=38,18,60, XB=0.0,3.8,0.0,1.8,0.0,6.0 /Mesh de 10 cm

&VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='OPEN'/

/Propriedades dos Materiais

/Cartoon

&REAC FUEL = 'C6H12O6'
C=12.0,
H=26.0,
O=6.0,

SOOT_YIELD = 0.015/ Celulose

&MATL ID ='CARTOON'
EMISSIVITY = 0.7,
NU_SPEC=1,
SPEC_ID='C6H12O6',
CONDUCTIVITY = 0.064,
SPECIFIC_HEAT = 0.103,
DENSITY = 1600.,

N_REACTIONS = 1,
HEAT_OF_COMBUSTION = 13000.,
REFERENCE_TEMPERATURE=100./

&SURF ID = 'Papelao'
DEFAULT = .FALSE.

COLOR = "BLUE",
MATL_ID ='CARTOON',

THICKNESS = 0.2,
BURN_AWAY=.TRUE./

/Cartoon boxes
/On Pallet1
&OBST XB=0.5,2.5,0.5,1.5,0.15,1, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

/&SURF ID='Hot_Point', TMP_FRONT=260, COLOR='RED' /used to set fire
/&VENT XB=1.3,1.4,0.5,0.5,0.85,0.95, SURF_ID='Hot_Point' /

&SLCF PBX=1.3, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i
&SLCF PBX=1.4, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i
&SLCF PBY=1.4, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i
&SLCF PBY=1.3, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i
&SLCF PBY=0.9, QUANTITY='PRESSURE' / monitora pressão em y=j
&SLCF PBX=2.9, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás
&SLCF PBY=0.9, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás
&SLCF PBZ=3, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás

&DEVC ID='TC1', XYZ=0.05,1,5.6, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/
&DEVC ID='TC2', XYZ=3.05,1,5.6, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/
&DEVC ID='TC3', XYZ=2.675,0.6,3.525, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/

&TAIL / End of file.

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[Lucas Boaz]

Anybody know?

[Salah Benkorichi]

This is what I see when I run your case. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/fds-smv/CAKb7bs8uf%3D1EDRze9jaVk_4hcXa4K21QZ6pfK-uVZzPTwqwRhQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Lucas Boaz]

Thanks, Salah!

I check and that is working.

But, why is the box taking fire if I didn't set ignition temperature and a hot point to start the reaction.

It is reacting alone!

I want the fire starts at a specific point.

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[Salah Benkorichi]

Because your reference temperature for the pyrolysis is too low, you have to use anl realistic value.

To get it to ignite you need to have a heating source nearby as your original case that will heat up the surface until it ignites. 

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[Lucas Boaz]

Thanks!!!

Now, it is getting fire! But the burning rate is too fast. In the article that I'm trying to replicate, they set a Max Burning Rate of 0,06 kg/s.

Do you know how I set this?

Other question: Reference Temperature is the Ignition Temperature?

My code know is that:

&HEAD CHID='Teste', TITLE='Teste_Geometria' /
&TIME T_END=60 /tempo de simulacao
&MISC TMPA=31/ temperatura ambiente
&MESH IJK=38,18,60, XB=0.0,3.8,0.0,1.8,0.0,6.0 /Mesh de 10 cm

&VENT MB='ZMAX', SURF_ID='OPEN'/

&VENT MB='XMAX', SURF_ID='OPEN'/
&VENT MB='YMAX', SURF_ID='OPEN'/
&VENT MB='XMIN', SURF_ID='OPEN'/
&VENT MB='YMIN', SURF_ID='OPEN'/

/Propriedades dos Materiais

/Cartoon

&REAC FUEL = 'C6H12O6'
C=12.0,
H=26.0,
O=6.0,
SOOT_YIELD = 0.015/ Celulose

&MATL ID ='CARTOON'
EMISSIVITY = 0.7,
NU_SPEC=1,
SPEC_ID='C6H12O6',
CONDUCTIVITY = 0.064,
SPECIFIC_HEAT = 0.103,
DENSITY = 1600.,
N_REACTIONS = 1,
HEAT_OF_COMBUSTION = 13000.,

REFERENCE_TEMPERATURE=200./

&SURF ID = 'Papelao'
DEFAULT = .FALSE.
COLOR = "BLUE",
MATL_ID ='CARTOON',

THICKNESS = 0.05,
BURN_AWAY=.FALSE./

/Cartoon boxes
/On Pallet1
&OBST XB=0.5,2.5,0.5,1.5,0.15,1, SURF_ID = 'Papelao' /

&SURF ID='BURNER', HRRPUA=2000., COLOR='RED'/
&VENT XB=1.3,1.4,0.5,0.5,0.85,0.95, SURF_ID='BURNER'/

&SLCF PBX=1.3, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i
&SLCF PBX=1.4, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i
&SLCF PBY=1.4, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i
&SLCF PBY=1.3, QUANTITY='TEMPERATURE' / monitora temperatura em x=i
&SLCF PBY=0.9, QUANTITY='PRESSURE' / monitora pressão em y=j
&SLCF PBX=2.9, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás
&SLCF PBY=0.9, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás
&SLCF PBZ=3, QUANTITY='VELOCITY' / monitora velocidade do gás

&DEVC ID='TC1', XYZ=0.05,1,5.6, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/
&DEVC ID='TC2', XYZ=3.05,1,5.6, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/
&DEVC ID='TC3', XYZ=2.675,0.6,3.525, QUANTITY='THERMOCOUPLE'/

&TAIL / End of file.

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