Digital signage

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Nick Jones

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Nov 26, 2012, 9:56:42 AM11/26/12
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On Friday I was asked to put together a digital signage solution for our stores around the state. The boss' idea was to get a flat-screen TV in each location mounted to the wall showing a rotating display of pricing, current specials, important info, etc. and he asked me to put something together.
 
For the PCs, I was thinking of doing a very small form factor nettop running some flavor of Linux. I poked around the internet and found some sub-$200 barebones nettops with Atom CPUs that I think might be perfect for this. I've got to add RAM (I can get a 2GB stick for around $11) and a hard drive (although I'm thinking of just using an 8GB SD card for around $10).
 
My other requirement is to be able to do remote access of some type to each machine. We have nine stores in the valley and another eight scattered through Central Wisconsin that I don't really want to have to drive out to unless absolutely necessary. My vision is to have the machines set up to automatically power on after a power loss and then immediately launch a web browser in kiosk mode that points at our slideshow on the server back here in Menasha. That way, no matter what happens, all the employee in our store has to do is make sure the machine is powered on.
 
I've never put together a project like this before, so I'm looking for some suggestions:
 
1. Is there a caveat that I'm not thinking of with the hardware, or is there another better/cheaper hardware option that will give us the results we are looking for? Unfortunately, Raspberry Pi isn't really an option for us since he wants this done by the end of the year and they are many-months backordered.
2. Is there a specific flavor of Linux I should be considering? I was just going to use barebones Debian or OpenSuse but I'm open to suggestions for something better. I'm assuming these can be installed on an 8GB SD card without issue.
3. Can a graphical browser (like Chrome or Konqueror) somehow be run without a window manager installed/running? I'd like it to run in such a way that if the browser closes, all the employee sees is a command line so they aren't tempted to mess around with it. Would this cause an issue with remote access to the machine? (i.e. would I have to rely on SSH instead of VNC?)
 
Thanks for any insight and advice that you guys have!

Tim Bertram

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Nov 26, 2012, 3:10:38 PM11/26/12
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I was looking at doing something like this a couple years ago to display pictures at remote locations not on our network. At the time I was looking at barebones PCs but ended up with a little different solution.  In may case I ended up using HP Touchsmart all in one touch screen computers. For a distribution of content I used dropbox.  This has worked fairly well for what we needed in the end.

There are other boards that might be an options.  

Also options that might work are
or 
One has Ethernet and wifi, the other just has wifi, both appear to support Android and Linux

The APC board supports Android, 
I don't know of Android would be the answer, but it might not be the worst for a base OS.  





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Nick Jones

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Nov 26, 2012, 3:41:45 PM11/26/12
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Android could work, and I'm not opposed to using it. I just want something that can be administered remotely with ease and I don't have experience doing that with Android. I know I can install VNC server on a desktop flavor of Linux and use that remotely with ease.
 
I'm liking what I'm seeing on those links though. I suppose I should test the mockup that our web designer created on an Android tablet to see if it will do the trick. A quick Google search doesn't seem to indicate if it's possible to have the browser launch in full-screen mode at system boot with Android. Does anyone know if this is doable? Do I basically need a rooted Android system so that I can set that up manually?
 
Thanks!

Tim Bertram

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Nov 26, 2012, 6:49:05 PM11/26/12
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I think you can embed a web component within your app, so rather than use one of the browsers on the device, you could have your own custom app that might have the effect your looking for.  See this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc9-JrEy8vw

It might be more work, but I would find it interesting to replace the android launcher/home screen with your own launcher.  Thus hiding access to things you don't need and making your app stay front and center.

Remote admin still might be a challenge, I have been playing with Meraki Systems manager which has a couple cool options for managing Android devices, but sadly remote screen viewing isn't one of them.  I looked at VNC and for the most part it looks like you would need to rooted to make VNC work.  

You could also ask on the DHMN mailing list, you might get a few more ideas there.

Tim Bertram

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Nov 29, 2012, 10:37:37 AM11/29/12
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These android devices hit my radar today and might be worth looking at too

Nick Jones

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Mar 26, 2013, 10:19:40 AM3/26/13
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Well, I've been plugging away at this with little luck over the last few months and I'm back for a little more advice. Can someone recommend a Linux distro that can be installed to a USB flash drive via a USB flash drive? The Shuttle PC I'm using has no ODD or HDD. I've successfully installed Debian to a 4GB drive but apparently the Xorg flavor in the repos can't play nice with the video card in the machine, thus I'm stuck at 1280x1024 resolution which looks terrible on a 24 inch 720p TV. 

Chuck Rhode

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Mar 26, 2013, 11:18:45 AM3/26/13
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On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 07:19:40 -0700 (PDT)
Nick Jones <nickin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I've successfully installed Debian to a 4GB drive but apparently
> > the Xorg flavor in the repos can't play nice with the video card
> > in the machine, thus I'm stuck at 1280x1024 resolution which looks
> > terrible on a 24 inch 720p TV.

$64 thousand question: What kind of video card is it? There may be
proprietary Linux (oxymoron) drivers for it. I imagine it would take
some doing, but you might be able to shoe-horn them onto your flash
drive and tweak the installed default xorg.conf (if any) to load them
automagically.

I'm on Debian Squeeze. I'm looking for how I seem to recall this
being done on previous versions, and I'm getting nothing. Apparently
it's all new and different, now, so I'm not a lot of help. Sorry.

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Tim Bertram

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Mar 26, 2013, 11:48:03 AM3/26/13
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Just wondering what is your connection from the computer to the TV?

Does the new x on debian auto create the x config on the fly like the newer Ubuntu versions?

Nick Jones

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Mar 26, 2013, 12:32:05 PM3/26/13
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It's connected via HDMI. It appears to create the config on the fly since I can't find an Xorg.conf file anywhere. When I run:
 
# x -configure
 
I get an error message. All the details, including the video card info, are here: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102729
 
I'm working on figuring out how to get the kernel installed that has been suggested in that thread.


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Chuck Rhode

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Mar 26, 2013, 9:28:21 PM3/26/13
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On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:32:05 -0500
Nick Jones <nickin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> All the details, including the video card info, are here:
> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102729

> I'm working on figuring out how to get the kernel installed that has
> been suggested in that thread.

That sounds about right. As an alternative perhaps you can get ahold
of the *gma500* kernel module built for your version of Linux and
*modprobe* it into the kernel somewhen during the boot process so it's
ready for X to latch onto.

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Nick Jones

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Jun 19, 2013, 12:49:18 PM6/19/13
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Ok, I'm back to this project again today. I've got to deploy two more of these machines this month (or early next month if possible). The PCs I purchased didn't work out at all. Even though it was advertised as an Intel chipset, it was just a rebranded third-party video card that didn't have any Linux drivers. I ended up having to purchase a couple of Windows 7 licenses to get what I needed which brought the cost of the project way above what I wanted.
 
I'm starting from square one here. My requirements haven't really changed:
 

Must have

  • Fanless
  • Low-power
  • Main-stream Linux (or at least based on something mainstream that I can adjust to quickly)
  • Ability to run Google Chrome or Firefox at at least 720p resolution via HDMI
  • wifi (Ethernet is a plus but not totally necessary)
  • Ability to automatically boot up, login, and launch Chrome in kiosk mode - even after a power failure
Can anyone point me out a machine that can do this? I don't mind doing some building. Is a Raspberry Pi a good choice for this? If so, what do I need to buy to make this work? I'm open to any and all suggestions. Thanks!

Tim Bertram

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Jun 19, 2013, 4:19:59 PM6/19/13
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Well the Pi is highly supported and available.  

Terms of what you would need.  
Pi ~ $40 
Case ~$20 (personally I find this very optional)
SD Card ~$15 (2GB might work but bigger is better.)
Micro USB phone charger 1A ~ $10 (most smart phone chargers should work as long as it puts out more than .7A)
WiFi Adapter ~$15

Depending on what you have and what you need your looking at ~$100 buying everything new.

Optional if you need more than two USB than you would need a hub too.  If your TV has a USB port, you might be able to to power the pi off the TV also. Some places offer kits that contain all this stuff in one bundle.

There is a emulator for the Pi that you can test drive on a windows box. http://sourceforge.net/projects/rpiqemuwindows/ You could test software ideas before you buy but in my experience it doesn't run the best on my computer but it did work for testing.


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Nick Jones

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Jun 19, 2013, 4:25:17 PM6/19/13
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Tim, can you recommend a good vendor for the Pi?

Thanks!

Tim Bertram

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Jun 19, 2013, 4:57:07 PM6/19/13
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You can order direct from element14/newark 


Nick Jones

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Jun 26, 2013, 9:55:55 AM6/26/13
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Well Tim you probably noticed that I bought a few of these and they work great! They are exactly what I needed and they were super cheap.
 
The only thing I have left to figure out on these is how to get the VNC server set up the way I would like. Some of these are going to be deployed as far out as Wausau and Marshfield, and I don't really want to have to drive out there each time there's a minor issue. I've got one set up perfectly so that when it powers up, it starts LXDE and then launches Chromium with the slideshow in kiosk mode. When I connect via the VNC server however, it's showing me a different desktop than the default one. I'd like it to be able to show me the desktop that is actually displayed on the HDMI port. Does anyone know how I can set this up to work?


Joshua M. Cowles

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Jun 26, 2013, 10:14:07 AM6/26/13
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Nick,


Not sure what the situation is for getting it installed in Raspbian, but it's probably possible, if not downright easy (i.e. apt-get).



Nick Jones

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Jun 26, 2013, 10:55:54 AM6/26/13
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Josh, this was easy. apt-get install x11vnc, then in ssh I ran "x11vnc -display :0" and I was then able to connect to it with TightVNC on my Windows box.
 
Thanks!


Joshua M. Cowles

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Jun 26, 2013, 11:41:32 AM6/26/13
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Good to hear - I'll have to keep that in mind for myself.

Will you be doing a write-up of this project?  I'd like to read it.


Nick Jones

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Jun 26, 2013, 4:12:03 PM6/26/13
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I certainly can do a write up. Thanks for the input everyone!


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