need for departmental exam in FCI

[saikat ghosh]

For various reasons, there was no recruitment in FCI for nearly two decades. Then, faced with the prospect of large scale retirement the management suddenly woke up and started recruitment in the last decade. As a result, we are now facing a situation where there is bunching of people of nearly similar age group at various levels. This naturally would lead to a situation where people would stagnate for years at their entry level posts or after getting one promotion. While the ACP scheme, once approved, is expected to provide some benefit to such persons, it would not satisfy the aspirations of those who believe that their qualities can be more effectively utilised. At the same time they would get further frustrated as external candidates are recruited under DR quota.

Keeping this mind, during the last General Meeting of the Association at Hqrs I had proposed the house to consider the need for recruitment through departmental exams in FCI. The house also agreed to the proposal. However, unfortunately we have so far not been able to crystallise our proposal to the management.

I am trying to get the details of the process and schemes of departmental exams followed by other organisations so that we can built up a strong case. However I admit that the progress in this regard has been quite slow far.

I am therefore requesting for help from all officers to find whatever material possible in respect of other PSUs and banks and forward the same so that we can speed up the process and make a clear and powerful demand to the management as quickly as possible.

Saikat Ghosh

[Pranjan Rajmedhi]

Dear Sir,

             I respect and appreciate your effort towards welfare of the employees of FCI. I always knew that we would have very late promotion because our batch was very big along with next batch of Managers, so its obvious that how would FCI have so many AGM post in next five years. This is one main reason where good managers would leave for some other prospective and high paying jobs leaving FCI in rather lack of good human resources.

            I would like to bring to your notice, that I have seen due to mass recruitment in Manager and AG-III levels, there's is also a vacuum in AG-II and AG-I level which is ever increasing due to fast retirement of experienced employees. Here I always fear what will happen in next 3-5 years when all these experienced fellow colleagues would retire and only newly recruited unexperienced young employees will left. No doubt we will manage the work, no offense to our generation, but still there are many parts of FCI where we need lots of experience to tackle the situation like, Mandi, SL & TL, facing CAG, managing related officials from bank, LIC, Unions, Association, CWC, Railways, etc., where we need lots of experience.

           Here I would dare to put forward some of my thoughts. In order to retained such experience for some more time, we can identify some of special talent from FCI and retain them for some more years after retirement so that they can train new and fresh employees in the same department. Because what we learned in IFS and what we face in reality in FCI, there is much difference depending in area to area and region to region. Experienced person would know exactly how to tackle such situations.

            And why not recruit some more employees in AG-I, II & III levels on contracts basis, which will not lead to mass retirement in future as well provide better performance from such employees on contract basis. We can also give an opportunity that amongst these contract basis employees a bunch will be recruited permanent which will perform better. This practice is also followed by other Govt. organisations too.

 
With Regards

Pranjan Rajmedhi

Manager - Accounts

FCI/DO/Dimapur

Saikat Ghosh

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[FCI,Shimla]

Dear Sir,

The very idea of conducting departmental exam is very commendable and appraisable itself.

It would be very motivational factor to be associated with FCI for precipitated employees.

I would certainly take endeavour to collect relevant references for your kind concern.

Pranjan has rightly raised the relevant facts.

 

Regards,

CA Ashutosh Rajhans

Manager(accounts)

Regional Office

Shimla,HP 

[durgesh kumar shukla]

Sirs,
I'm entirely in agreement with views of Mr. Ghosh reg urgent need of introducing depttal exams in fci to promote merit and good HR policies. I had expressed this view earlier too in emails and discussions with sr officers incl Hon'ble cmd.
I think we all must cooperate in providing good inputs for formulation of a viable policy in this regard which would go a long way in making OUR FCI A STILL BETTER ORG TO WORK WITH.
Regards
-durgesh shukla
agm (stg)
fci ro bpl





Subject: Fwd: need for departmental exam in FCI

Dear Sir,

  ࠦnbsp; ࠦnbsp; ࠦnbsp;I respect and appreciate your effort towards welfare of the employees of FCI. I always knew that we would have very late promotion because our batch was very big along with next batch of Managers, so its obvious that how would FCI have so many AGM post in next five years. This is one main reason where good managers would leave for some other prospective and high paying jobs leaving FCI in rather lack of good human resources.

  ࠦnbsp; ࠦnbsp; ࠉ would like to bring to your notice, that I have seen due to mass recruitment in Manager and AG-III levels, there's is also a vacuum in AG-II and AG-I level which is ever increasing due to fast retirement of experienced employees. Here I always fear what will happen in next 3-5 years when all these experienced fellow colleagues would retire and only newly recruited unexperienced young employees will left. No doubt we will manage the work, no offense to our generation, but still there are many parts of FCI where we need lots of experience to tackle the situation like, Mandi, SL & TL, facing CAG, managing related officials from bank, LIC, Unions, Association, CWC, Railways, etc., where we need lots of experience.

  ࠦnbsp; ࠦnbsp; ȥre I would dare to put forward some of my thoughts. In order to retained such experience for some more time, we can identify some of special talent from FCI and retain them for some more years after retirement so that they can train new and fresh employees in the same department. Because what we learned in IFS and what we face in reality in FCI, there is much difference depending in area to area and region to region. Experienced person would know exactly how to tackle such situations.

  ࠦnbsp; ࠦnbsp; ࠁnd why not recruit some more employees in AG-I, II & III levels on contracts basis, which will not lead to mass retirement in future as well provide better performance from such employees on contract basis. We can also give an opportunity that amongst these contract basis employees a bunch will be recruited permanent which will perform better. This practice is also followed by other Govt. organisations too.

 
With Regards

Pranjan Rajmedhi

Manager - Accounts

FCI/DO/Dimapur

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 9:18 PM, saikat ghosh <saikatg...@gmail.com> wrote:

For various reasons, there was no recruitment in FCI for nearly two decades. Then, faced with the prospect of large scale retirement the management suddenly woke up and started recruitment in the last decade. As a result, we are now facing a situation where there is bunching of people of nearly similar age group at various levels. This naturally would lead to a situation where people would stagnate for years at their entry level posts or after getting one promotion. While the ACP scheme, once approved, is expected to provide some benefit to such persons, it would not satisfy the aspirations of those who believe that their qualities can be more effectively utilised. At the same time they would get further frustrated as external candidates are recruited under DR quota.

Keeping this mind, during the last General Meeting of the Association at Hqrs I had proposed the house to consider the need for recruitment through departmental exams in FCI. The house also agreed to the proposal. However, unfortunately we have so far not been able to crystallise our proposal to the management.

I am trying to get the details of the process and schemes of departmental exams followed by other organisations so that we can built up a strong case. However I admit that the progress in this regard has been quite slow far.

I am therefore requesting for help from all officers to find whatever material possible in respect of other PSUs and banks and forward the same so that we can speed up the process and make a clear and powerful demand to the management as quickly as possible.

Saikat Ghosh

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[FCI- DO-NORTH LAKHIMPUR]

Sirs,

       It is appreciating that a initiative has been initiated to introduce departmental examination in FCI. As desired,  the public sector Banks conduct depatmental exams in 2(two) phases i.e. written & interview upto Scale IV level (Chief Manager) and thereafter  interviews are held for further promotion. In the written phase, for promotion to Scale I officer from clerical cadre 1(one) subjective paper for testing the English command, 2(two) objective paper of Banking related issues including some arithmetic problems & reasoning and for promotion to higher levels from Scale I officer, objective papers related to Banking industry & the respective banks general awareness. So far my knowledge, the above information may put forth some light on the patterns of the exams held in the PSBs however there may be some variation in the patterns among the Banks. I am not going to assert my view on the patterns or the process of the departmental exams likely to be for FCI with a view that intellectuals may come forward to suggest the ways and decision may be taken as deemed fit in course of time, if the management is really serious on the issue of organising the Departmental promotion  through departmental exams.

       My heartfelt thanks & support will always be there for the upliftment of the entire FCI family and the organisation as well.

 

Purba

FCI/DO/NLP

 

 Original Message -----
From: durgesh kumar shukla <durges...@rediffmail.com>
Date: Monday, November 28, 2011 12:27 pm
Subject: need for departmental exam in FCI
To: "fciofficers...@googlegroups.com" <fciofficers...@googlegroups.com>

[FCI Officers]

I do not subscribe to the idea of departmental exams in FCI. Even if it is implemented it is not going to increase the number of seats to be filled. For all promotional quota posts, instead of CR there would be exams merit and it would result in equal number of discontent as present in today's scenario. There are other issues also if FCI conducts such departmental exams which I feel improper to discuss at this forum.

What I feel there may be other alternatives as described below -

As per the DoPT guidelines, in any organisation there can be E 0 to E 9 grades for the Officers. At present in FCI only 6 slabs are being operated so there is scope for introduction of three new slabs which would be helpful in introducing new promotional avenues. This may not increase the total number of seats (somebody from Personnel Division to see),  it would increase three slabs resulting in reducing stagnation at several level.

At present there is direct recruitment quota upto the level of General Manager (except in Accounts). 25% seats are reserved for direct recruitment in all levels i.e. at AGM, DGM & GM level. If DR quota is abolished at these levels, the promotional avenues can be enhanced substantially. As this would also help CAt III employees, Association would get help from Unions also.

The Management would oppose removal of DR quota in GM (General) as through this channel only the All India Services people are sneaking in. The Association has to take a stand in the matter as any tom dick and harry are coming to FCI and indulging in all nefarious activities.

I hope the issue would be examined by the people having knowledge in this area before Association start pursuing the most suitable alternative.  

Krishna Chandra Misra

[Harsh Kapoor]

i agree with the views of Mishra sir, If DR quota is abolished at AGM,DGM & GM levels, the promotional avenues can be enhanced substantially. this would  help cat. III as well as cat. II employees.

[prince verma]

This is exactly one of the Mckenjy Recommendations says. 

Interestingly we changed the designation-nomenclature as advised by the Mckenjy but other recommendations....a few of them also applied ...?

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Harsh Kapoor <harshka...@gmail.com> wrote:

i agree with the views of Mishra sir, If DR quota is abolished at AGM,DGM & GM levels, the promotional avenues can be enhanced substantially. this would  help cat. III as well as cat. II employees.

[FCI MALDA]

It will be be very helpful for all especially for Cat 111 emp...............so please

----- Original Message -----
From: prince verma <prince...@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:52 pm
Subject: Re: need for departmental exam in FCI
To: fciofficers...@googlegroups.com

[Dinesh Tripathi]

We have not received any concrete response on the suggestion regarding departmental examination in FCI. All the officers are earnestly requested to do the research and analysis on the issue and submit their proposals.

 

For ready reference the following are suggested.

I.. INDIAN RAILWAY ESTABLISHMENT CODE
VOL. I (FIFTH EDITION - 1985, SECOND REPRINT EDITION - 2003)

 Chapter 2, General conditions of Service.
Recruitment, Training and Promotion to Group 'A' & Group 'B' Posts.

it provides for demartmental examination in various services. Presently the quata has been increased from 25% to 30.

 

II. . The Orissa department of Agriculture and Cooperation provides as follows:  II. RECRUITMENT TO THE SERVICE

5. Methods of recruitment –

1. Recruitment to the Service shall be made by the following methods namely :

a) direct recruitment in accordance with rules 6 to 11; and

b) promotion from the cadre of the Agriculture Overseers, Horticulture Overseersand Soil Conservation Assistants in accordance with rules 15 to 17.

c) Appointment of departmental candidates completing successfully B. Sc. (Ag.)course on being sponsored by the Government in accordance with rules 15 to17.

 

III. The Government has changed the mode of recruitment of Section Oficers?s (SO) Grade of Central Secretariat Service (CSS) from Direct recruitment to the Departmental recruitment.

Refer to the order .No.21/39/03-CS.I
Government of India
Ministry of Personnel, P.G. and Pensions
( Department of Personnel & Training )

 

Please help for the common cause.

DineshTripathi

AGM(Procurement)

 

 

 

Forhte convenience am attaching a government o

[Swarup Mukherjee]

Sir,

 

 

Last few days we have a very active discussion on 'NEED FOR DEPARTMENTAL EXAM' in FCI. However, I must say that the we are discussing on a dead cause since the damage has already been done in an irreparable manner after the induction of current batch of Cat-I officers blocking all the posts which could have been made available for the 'PROPOSED DEPARTMENTAL EXAM'. In fact the same could have been averted well within time if the Officers Association would have shown a little pragmatism in its approach in dealing such an important and far reaching issue.

          The matter was brought to the notice of the Officers Association as early as May 2009 (at least two and half years back) in this very forum (see appended email). However the issue was nipped in the bud and we were told that “The direct recruitment in FCI may actually be a blessing for many” and “it gave the opportunity of a fast track promotion to many” at that time. Co-incidentally the same logic has been put forth by the FCI Management in retaining DR quota.

 

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:17 PM, saikat ghosh <saikatg...@gmail.com> wrote:

The points raised by Swarup are definitely relevant. However, there are always two sides to any story.

1. Absence of singular entry level post: It has become a standard policy of all major PSU to fill up most of the direct recruitment in the officer cadre only in Management trainee level.  In FCI As per staff regulation, direct recruitment is made in the AGM and DGM post @33.33% of the total post. Keeping view of the meager amount of posts, in ED, GM or DGM level, there is heavy blockage in all along the managerial ladder due to the higher career span of direct recruits in these posts.

The direct recruitment in FCI may actually be a blessing for many. In the present Direct Recruitment process, 100% of DGM(G) & DGM(L) selected were from existing AGMs. Similarly, about 50% of the AGM(G) & AGM(A/cs) are from existing Managers. So effectively it gave the opportunity of a fast track promotion to many. The FCI employees are second to none. Given the right opportunity, they can compete with any external candidates and come out on top.

2. Absence of all scales recommended for A category PSUs i.e. E0 to E9: More scales means more promotional avenues. It is seen that most of the Leading PSUs are having 10 executive level scales from E0 to E9, some of  them was having even more by creating sub-scales, such as E2/A and so on. Compare this with FCI and you will get the root cause of Stagnation.

3. Absence of well defined lower, middle and higher management posts/scales: In PSUs, Generally the three tier of management is well defined and each tier is having at least 3 posts/scales. Ideally, scales should be distributed as
i. Lower Management:-E0 to E3
ii Middle Management:-E4 to E6
iii Higher Management:-E7 to E9

The FCI OA has demanded upgradation of the Manager post to E2 level, with similar adjustment at higer levels. In case that is accepted (presently with the Ministry) then there would be only two gaps at E6 (between DGM & GM) and E3 (between Mgr & AGM). There is already a non-standard scale intermediate post between Mgr & AGM which is operated for Medical Officers & Selection Grade Managers which can be fitted to the standard scale of E3. That would leave only a gap at E6 level which can be taken up with the management. The proposed updradation also fits into the above concept of Lower Management (Mgr & Medical Officer/Sl. Gr. Mgr), Middle Management (AGM & DGM plus may be another post at E6) and Higher Management (GM, CGM & ED).

4. Screwed and disproportionate ratio of posts within the managerial ladder: In FCI Category II post is having a ratio of approximately 10:1. against entire band of Category I. The top of the pyramid is too sharp to allow any time bound promotion.

5. Abolition of higher management post through VRS.

The FCI management has already sent a proposal of increasing the higher level posts for approval of the Ministry. However, the final decision, as usual rests with the Ministry.

6. Widespread deputation in higher management posts.

The deputation below ED level is only in General Cadre posts and always against Direct Recruit vacancies. That is because while Direct Recruitment in other Cadres take place at all levels, DR in higher posts of General Cadre are never proposed. Possibly because the persons proposing the DR also belong to the General Cadre and are of the belief that in case a DR vacancy is filled up by regular appointment, they would loose that many seniority permanently and if DR posts remain vacant they may get Ad-hoc promotion. What is overlooked in the process is that in case DR for GM(G) is undertaken, some of the existing FCI employees would have a chance for selection also. The persons coming on Deputation utilise this loophole and come in through "Recruitment on Deputation" basis. It is time that a demand is raised to at least regulate such "Recruitment" as per the standard transparent process followed by other organisations i.e. through advertisement, interview etc.

7. Culture of appointment in ad-hoc, deployment and temporary basis at higher posts keeping post without regular appointment/promotion for years.

FCI does not have any system of "temporary" appointment. Ad-hoc promotions are made against Vacant DR posts. Deployment are made against vacant DR posts or when PR posts remain vacant due to absence of requisite number of eligible candidates in the lower posts.

8. I think there should be a drastic change in the HR policy  in FCI. I appeal to FCIOA to persue for this change. The need of the hour is to introduce newer scales which is presently absent in FCI. There should also be a policy for awarding of scales in time bound manner, even if the post is not vacant. Thus, even if a person is not getting promotional post, he should be entitled to  the scale in a time bound manner.

The present situation has arisen due to the fact that for almost three decades, FCI did not follow any policy of regular recruitment in small batches. As a result, when recruitment at major scale were started some 10 years back people of almost similar age group got selected at different levels and naturally there is bound to be stagnation. A pragmatic approach perhaps would be to follow the system of banks who have a system of filling up direct recruitment vacancies at higher levels through departmental examinations. So deserving candidates get fast track promotion while the others also get promotion as per seniority and vacancy position.

Saikat Ghosh

[Harsh Kapoor]

Sir,

I think the association should first take up the previous pending matters like scale upgardation. As departmental exam will help the employees to appear for higher post in FCI only, where as scale upgradation will make FCI employees eligible for appearing for higher posts in other PSUs as well. As at present Manager of FCI (Pay sclae 16,400-40,500) cannot appear for the post of AGM in other PSU as the minimum requirement is the scale of 20,600 whereas Asst. Manager of other  schedule "A" PSU l can appear for the post of AGM in FCI. 

I request the association to please look in this matter seriously as its really beneficial for employees.

With Regards

Harsh Kapoor

[Saikat Ghosh]

The comment quoted was on the issue of complete stoppage of direct recruitment at higher levels. As is evident in the mail quoted 22 May 2009 the following point was also raised against point no. 8.

A pragmatic approach perhaps would be to follow the system of banks who have a system of filling up direct recruitment vacancies at higher levels through departmental examinations. So deserving candidates get fast track promotion while the others also get promotion as per seniority and vacancy position.

Then those were my personal views which did not find many takers. However, the same proposal was also made during the last General Body Meeting of 2011 which was agreed to by the house. We do not want the DR quota to be abolished, we want them to be filled up through departmental exams. With the ACP scheme, which is presently with the Govt of India, awarding of scales in time bound manner would become a reality. But that may not be enough for most of the aspirants. That is where a departmental exam based DR can be effective.

The above are my personal views only.

Saikat Ghosh

On 02/12/2011 4:32 PM, Swarup Mukherjee wrote:

Sir,

�

�

Last few days we have a very active discussion on 'NEED FOR DEPARTMENTAL EXAM' in FCI. However, I must say that the we are discussing on a dead cause since the damage has already been done in an irreparable manner after the induction of current batch of Cat-I officers blocking all the posts which could have been made available for the 'PROPOSED DEPARTMENTAL EXAM'. In fact the same could have been averted well within time if the Officers Association�would have�shown a little pragmatism in its approach in dealing such an important and far reaching issue.

��������� The matter was brought to the notice of the Officers Association as early as May 2009 (at least two and half years back) in this very forum (see appended email). However the issue was nipped in the bud and we were told that �The direct recruitment in FCI may actually be a blessing for many� and �it gave the opportunity of a fast track promotion to many� at that time. Co-incidentally the same logic has been put forth by the FCI Management in retaining DR quota.

�

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:17 PM, saikat ghosh <saikatg...@gmail.com> wrote:

The points raised by Swarup are definitely relevant. However, there are always two sides to any story.

1. Absence of singular entry level post: It has become a standard policy of all major PSU to fill up most of the direct recruitment in the officer cadre only in Management trainee level. �In FCI As per staff regulation, direct recruitment is made in the AGM and DGM post @33.33% of the total post. Keeping view of the meager amount of posts, in ED, GM or DGM level, there is heavy blockage in all along the managerial ladder due to the higher career span of direct recruits in these posts.

The direct recruitment in FCI may actually be a blessing for many. In the present Direct Recruitment process, 100% of DGM(G) & DGM(L) selected were from existing AGMs. Similarly, about 50% of the AGM(G) & AGM(A/cs) are from existing Managers. So effectively it gave the opportunity of a fast track promotion to many. The FCI employees are second to none. Given the right opportunity, they can compete with any external candidates and come out on top.

2. Absence of all scales recommended for A category PSUs i.e. E0 to E9: More scales means more promotional avenues. It is seen that most of the Leading PSUs are having 10 executive level scales from E0 to E9, some of �them was having even more by creating sub-scales, such as E2/A and so on. Compare this with FCI and you will get the root cause of Stagnation.

3. Absence of well defined lower, middle and higher management posts/scales: In PSUs, Generally the three tier of management is well defined and each tier is having at least 3 posts/scales. Ideally, scales should be distributed as
i. Lower Management:-E0 to E3
ii Middle Management:-E4 to E6
iii Higher Management:-E7 to E9

The FCI OA has demanded upgradation of the Manager post to E2 level, with similar adjustment at higer levels. In case that is accepted (presently with the Ministry) then there would be only two gaps at E6 (between DGM & GM) and E3 (between Mgr & AGM). There is already a non-standard scale intermediate post between Mgr & AGM which is operated for Medical Officers & Selection Grade Managers which can be fitted to the standard scale of E3. That would leave only a gap at E6 level which can be taken up with the management. The proposed updradation also fits into the above concept of Lower Management (Mgr & Medical Officer/Sl. Gr. Mgr), Middle Management (AGM & DGM plus may be another post at E6) and Higher Management (GM, CGM & ED).

4. Screwed and disproportionate ratio of posts within the managerial ladder: In FCI Category II post is having a ratio of approximately 10:1. against entire band of Category I. The top of the pyramid is too sharp to allow any time bound promotion.

5. Abolition of higher management post through VRS.

The FCI management has already sent a proposal of increasing the higher level posts for approval of the Ministry. However, the final decision, as usual rests with the Ministry.

6. Widespread deputation in higher management posts.

The deputation below ED level is only in General Cadre posts and always against Direct Recruit vacancies. That is because while Direct Recruitment in other Cadres take place at all levels, DR in higher posts of General Cadre are never proposed. Possibly because the persons proposing the DR also belong to the General Cadre and are of the belief that in case a DR vacancy is filled up by regular appointment, they would loose that many seniority permanently and if DR posts remain vacant they may get Ad-hoc promotion. What is overlooked in the process is that in case DR for GM(G) is undertaken, some of the existing FCI employees would have a chance for selection also. The persons coming on Deputation utilise this loophole and come in through "Recruitment on Deputation" basis. It is time that a demand is raised to at least regulate such "Recruitment" as per the standard transparent process followed by other organisations i.e. through advertisement, interview etc.

7. Culture of appointment in ad-hoc, deployment and temporary basis at higher posts keeping post without regular appointment/promotion for years.

FCI does not have any system of "temporary" appointment. Ad-hoc promotions are made against Vacant DR posts. Deployment are made against vacant DR posts or when PR posts remain vacant due to absence of requisite number of eligible candidates in the lower posts.

8. I think there should be a drastic change in the HR policy �in FCI. I appeal to FCIOA to persue for this change. The need of the hour is to introduce newer scales which is presently absent in FCI. There should also be a policy for awarding of scales in time bound manner, even if the post is not vacant. Thus, even if a person is not getting promotional post, he should be entitled to �the scale in a time bound manner.

The present situation has arisen due to the fact that for almost three decades, FCI did not follow any policy of regular recruitment in small batches. As a result, when recruitment at major scale were started some 10 years back people of almost similar age group got selected at different levels and naturally there is bound to be stagnation. A pragmatic approach perhaps would be to follow the system of banks who have a system of filling up direct recruitment vacancies at higher levels through departmental examinations. So deserving candidates get fast track promotion while the others also get promotion as per seniority and vacancy position.

Saikat Ghosh

[Saikat Ghosh]

We are awaiting the GoI decision on fixation of scales of Sel. Grade
Managers w.e.f. 1.1.2007 as that would be greatly helpful to our cause.
The proposal has been already agreed to by the Ministry and sent to DPE.

Saikat Ghosh

[Jarnail Tuli]

i understand that a reply has been submitted to ministry of food by DPE on Friday last . The details of the same should be available on Monday i.e.5th Dec

---

From: Saikat Ghosh <saikatg...@gmail.com>
To: fciofficers...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 2 December 2011 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: need for departmental exam in FCI