Composition Workshop Notes.
Aldous
Please take a moment to browse over the following document. Basically,
it is meant as a sort of beginner’s guide for singers who are
interested in Sacred Harp tunewriting, but have little or no
experience, and/or have otherwise had little or no training in music
theory. (Some of you may recognize it as the handout I prepared for my
Camp Fasola composition lessons in 2009 and 2010. However, I have made
a few minor amendments to it since this past summer, and hope to
further improve it before I teach workshops in Ireland in a couple of
weeks.)
I’m particularly interested to hear if there is anything that folks on
this list find unclear or in error, or if there are any important
omissions that I should perhaps rectify (keeping in mind that this
guide is designed to offer general guidance and tips on basic part-
writing; while mostly leaving more advanced issues of harmony for a
later time). Of course, any other feedback would also be welcome and
greatly appreciated.
The document is available here:
http://fasola-songwriters.googlegroups.com/web/SACRED%20HARP%20TUNEWRITING%20WORKSHOP%20(31%20October,%202010).pdf?gsc=9oBzqAsAAAAdVddwch4Pfd-1FeC8HLwA
Thanks so much for your time!
Aldous.
Robert Vaughn
http://fasola-songwriters.googlegroups.com/web/SACRED+HARP+TUNEWRITING+WORKSHOP+(31+October%2C+2010).pdf?gda=UVqyBXAAAABCjzcVpNAwWRmOe3N-1ZEtMT83PpE2WkcAeWGJnBegHIq-6jVgNxUwOPNALL779fvO4DrWLYa5YLleKThJIxK8chEY2xkRBB0HMrhcgi-b4gfqL7p1yrlEWrfUH3g8BUhtxVPdW1gYotyj7-X7wDON
If either of these do not work for you, log on to Fasola Songwriters <http://groups.google.com/group/fasola-songwriters>, go to "Files" and choose "SACRED HARP TUNEWRITING WORKSHOP (31 October, 2010).pdf"
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
--- On Sun, 10/31/10, Aldous <tynda...@aol.com> wrote:
Robert Vaughn
Aldo, this is an excellent resource. Thanks for making it available to us here. I am going to copy a few parts from the text and then comment underneath it. Most are just comments elicited by reading your paper. There is one specific suggestion at the end.
If your song … doesn’t “sound like Sacred Harp,” singers very likely won’t sing it … it is important for the composer to ask him or herself: “Do I want Sacred Harp singers to sing my music, and enjoy it?” If the answer is yes, then you might consider the old Sacred Harp admonition to “seek the old paths and walk therein”—especially when you are first starting out. Good advice – especially for the beginner – if not taken too far. As a composer, do not stifle your creativity just to satisfy others. Write what you feel, and trust the broader Sacred Harp community to make the proper judgment. As Billings said, “I don't think myself confined to any rules of composition, laid down by any that went before me, neither should I think (were I to pretend to lay down rules) that any one who came after me were in any ways obligated to adhere to them, any further than they should think proper; so in fact I think it best for every composer to be his own carver.” But remember you are not Billings, especially if you’re just starting out. If you take this approach, grow a thick skin. You may not only get some polite responses, but many non-responses and some very critical ones as well. Ultimately, it will be the singers who decide whether your tunes “are Sacred Harp”, or whether they will be sung.
Remember: Just because a song is written in shape notes, does not mean that it is a “shape note” song. I’m not sure how much I agree with this. Yes, surely any score could be converted from round to shape notes, but that happening seems rather unreal and superfluous in the grand scheme of things. The fact that you have “shape note” in quotes probably means that you explain what you mean by “shape note” during the presentation. But any songs written with shape notes (of any sort) and intended to be read and sung by those notes are "shape note songs", regardless of their style. Shape notes are a sight-reading tool, not a style.
Use The Sacred Harp as your guide. Which “Sacred Harp”? I know that you write within the Denson tradition and your references are to the 1991 edition. But there are two Sacred Harps in use that are still “living traditions” that randomly add new music. There is some variation in what might be acceptable in one or the other (although I think it is also possible to exaggerate this).
Sing your music! Definitely! If you don’t enjoy singing the parts individually, your fellow singers won’t either.
Above all, beware of relying too much on instruments and computers! My personal preference is that all scores be first written by hand rather than writing on notational software. I only plug them in afterward (with a few exceptions when I was working on an arrangement). I have attempted to write songs off and on for about thirty years, and didn’t have any notational software until the thirtieth year. So I guess I am old school. BUT I have found the play back feature on Melody Assistant to be helpful in building my confidence. What might sound good played back on Myriad’s Karaoke (I think that's what they call it) may not translate into a good Sacred Harp song, but it may tell me that it doesn’t (or does) sound like a cat trying to climb up a chalkboard.
Finally, always remember that writing involves a lot of trial and error. Because of the quantity (definitely not quality) of songs I write and the fact that I don’t expect to be a Sacred Harp Mozart, I don’t spend too much time editing. I move on to the next experience. Plus, I am not all that good of an editor of my own writing, whether music or prose or poetry. But when I come up with a piece I think might actually be pretty good, I try to spend some time going over it more. Some of this for me is just a practical matter of the use of my time.
* interesting melodic contour (not too static in either the high or low registers) This probably sounds silly, but I have been known to turn the page sideways/flatways and just look at the contour of the printed notes on the page. Doesn’t really do much of anything, but I find it interesting.
The range of the alto is usually about a major sixth Study Sacred Harp alto parts! A good alto can be most difficult part to write for a non-alto singer (especially men) I agree. I have struggled with writing altos. In recent times I have begun to sing alto lines in the privacy of my home and once in awhile sing along with the altos at our monthly singings. I think this is helpful. One thing I decided: even though I don’t sing alto, if I write a line I don’t enjoy singing, it is a good possibility they won’t either.
As to the range, I think that is an area one should exercise care in following the examples from the Sacred Harp as a guide. Several months back I was singing alto parts of songs in the 1991 Denson Edition that I haven't heard much. I noticed several songs in which the total range of the alto consisted of the first three notes of the scale, fa-sol-la/1-2-3. I began to notice that phenomenon in both the 1991 and the 2006 Cooper Edition. There are actually quite a few songs like that, or that consist of almost only those with a sol/5th and/or and mi thrown in once or twice. At least some of that (but not all) goes back to many alto lines being added after the fact in an attempt to not overly change the sound and makeup of the tune. There is no reason to suppose that altos cannot range an octave just like tenors, basses, and trebles.
Sacred Harp Chord Charts Is there any way these charts could be tweaked so that it is readily obvious which fa’s, la’s and sol’s are represented. I realize it is already obvious to those familiar with these chord names. But since this is for beginners, I think that would be helpful. |
David Wright
This is excellent! Thank you for sharing it.
I like your examples -- both the points you chose to illustrate with
examples (e.g., the melodic "words", or the bass crossing above the
tenor), and the examples you used.
I thought of one possible thing to add, which might be a more advanced
topic than this handout is intended for, but might be worth mentioning
as a caveat to the chord charts: You do not have to write a complete
three-note chord on every note of the tune. My own writing took (I
think) a big step forward when I finally really internalized this.
Some of my earlier tunes had awkward places where (usually) the treble
or alto jumped some weird interval because the note was "needed" to
complete the next chord harmonically. It is not only that a more open
sound is characteristic of the Sacred Harp -- using both complete and
incomplete chords (triads and dyads), as well as different voicings of
the chords (which note of the chord is doubled/tripled and how), is a
major source of variety and color and often also makes it easier to
write individual parts that are melodically attractive/singable/
idiomatic.
--David Wright (Seattle)
Allison Blake (Schofield) Steel
have a very few, very small comments.
I think you know this already, but I agree entirely with your
encouraging new composers to start, rather religiously, from the
Sacred Harp as a model and get the knack of that before moving on to a
lot of "experimentation." I think, after many many years of writing I
still haven't quite gotten the "knack" but I"m getting better. I
think this is the most prominent pitfall for Sacred Harp style
composers. But enough of this soap box for now. I could go on all
day.
Roberts exploration of this phrase: "Remember: Just because a song is
phrase to "Sacred Harp" or "Sacred Harp Style" I think it's more
precise.
I think the "Keep the rhythm in mind" section is a little advanced.
There's definitely a lot in this document that's very advanced so it's
just a matter of degrees. But I think this one is a bit advanced for
me. Saying to do things, like barring, correctly, I'm not sure is
useful. Maybe making it more basic. Something like: Figure out what
mode of time your tune is in by singing your melody and beating time
with your hand to figure out what fits best. Or, look at songs in the
meter of your poetry and see what modes of time they are in, then
emulate the rhythmic phrases that make that song, and other's like it,
work. Or pick a mode of time, that seems to fit your words, and pay
special attention to how the accent operates. Put your long notes and
short notes in the right places to emphasize the accent. I like the
"Speak the rhythm of your tune" part.
Just a suggestion. I'm not sure if any of that is helpful I've
mostly gotten myself muddled.
Treble:
Page 65 is my favorite tenor treble mirror/crossing example.
Alto:
"Write the alto last" I'm not actually going to quibble with you at
all. To my mind the real reason, and why I always have to write my
alto parts last, is because if you don't you end up with problems.
Because that's they way they've mostly all been written, to do
differently will lead, generally, to a non-idiomatic result. I write
the altos last because that's the way it's been done and it's an easy
way to make sure you don't back yourself into a harmonic blind alley.
Altos like the alto part, otherwise they wouldn't sing it. Generally
speaking about alto parts: I think that alto parts are the least
melodic of the 4 voice parts. Broadly speaking. Some of the not-very-
melodic ones are some of the (in my opinion) worst ones, but not all.
There's nothing wrong with a drone, or even a 3 note alto part, just a
bad one. I think it's also often the most dissonant voice part. Some
people might consider this a mistake, but I would argue it is part of
what makes the alto part attractive to sing. Everyone has songs they
don't love their part on, the altos may have a little more than their
fair share, but if they didn't like the part they wouldn't sing it.
So, I write it last because that's how it comes out most alto-y.
I'm not sure if any of this is at all useful. I found your document
EXTREMELY useful to read and think about. And is definitely the kind
of thinking that this forum, and our "tunesmith" conversations and
workshops are focused on producing. Again, kudos! and thanks. -
Allison
Robert Vaughn
> I think you know this already, but I agree entirely with
> your
> encouraging new composers to start, rather religiously,
> from the
> Sacred Harp as a model and get the knack of that before
> moving on to a
> lot of "experimentation." I think, after many many
> years of writing I
> still haven't quite gotten the "knack" but I'm getting
> better. I
> think this is the most prominent pitfall for Sacred Harp
> style
> composers. But enough of this soap box for now.
> I could go on all
> day.
>
After thinking about it more, I'd say my pontificating about not stifling creativity was not particularly useful in this context. The document is particularly for new composers trying to learn and get their feet on solid ground.
> Altos like the alto part, otherwise they wouldn't sing it.
Allison, this is a great point that is so simple many of us likely miss it!
> I think it's also often the most dissonant
> voice part. Some
> people might consider this a mistake, but I would argue it
> is part of
> what makes the alto part attractive to sing.
Interesting about the dissonance. I was looking at a couple of songs in the Cooper Book last week that have (what seem to me, on paper at least) some pretty serious dissonances in the alto parts. I'll have to go back and look at these with this thought in mind.
> So, I write it last because that's how it comes out most
> alto-y.
>
How do you (any of you) approach writing the alto part of a fuge? Do you just keep an eye out for where you want it to go and fill it in later? Write three parts and give the alto the same entrances and exits as another part? What is your method for fuges? Seems it will be a little different than standard tunes without that kind of interaction.
Sincerely,
Robert Vaughn
Mt. Enterprise, TX
P. Dan Brittain
>
> I think the "Keep the rhythm in mind" section is a little advanced.
> There's definitely a lot in this document that's very advanced so it's
> just a matter of degrees. But I think this one is a bit advanced for
> me. Saying to do things, like barring, correctly, I'm not sure is
> useful. Maybe making it more basic. Something like: Figure out what
> mode of time your tune is in by singing your melody and beating time
> with your hand to figure out what fits best. Or, look at songs in the
> meter of your poetry and see what modes of time they are in, then
> emulate the rhythmic phrases that make that song, and other's like it,
> work. Or pick a mode of time, that seems to fit your words, and pay
> special attention to how the accent operates. Put your long notes and
> short notes in the right places to emphasize the accent. I like the
> "Speak the rhythm of your tune" part.
On the subject of barring - I have read several times (can't remember
the sources at the moment) that many of our tunes are mis-barred and
need to be rewritten.
This would also seem to apply to new compositions.
I would disagree for the following reasons:
One has to remember that in Sacred Harp music, the time signature
influences the tempo. Even though only the Cooper (not sure about the
White, I have several copies but not at hand) retains the specific
seconds per bar for each time signature - those were in the red book
tradition too.
If you want a faster tempo, you choose one of the modes of time that
goes along with it. The text rhythm may be in 3 but the tune rhythm is
in some sort of 2.
That gives an effect in the rhythm of a "bump" where it doesn't seem
to belong; but, it is very much a part of our tradition. If you re-bar
the tune, it removes that bump and the tune doesn't sound like Sacred
Harp.
P. Dan Brittain
Harrison, Arkansas
Wade Kotter
It might be a good idea for your or someone else to give a few examples of SH
tunes that are mis-barred according to modern standards in order to see what you
mean about how re-barring them would change them for the worse.
Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT
Robert Vaughn
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/ssb/display.cfm?TitleID=610&Format=jpg&PageNum=334
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
P. Dan Brittain
> Dan et al.
>
> It might be a good idea for your or someone else to give a few examples of SH
> tunes that are mis-barred according to modern standards in order to see what you
> mean about how re-barring them would change them for the worse.
>
32T Corinth; 38B Windham; 39T Detroit; 39B Sharpsburg; 47T Primrose;
48T Devotion; 48B Kedron; 55 Siistr's Farewell; 60 Days of Worship; 66
Home; 68T Salem; 69T Minister's Farewell; 77T Child of Grace; 81T
Beach Spring; 89 Church's Desolation; 94Never Part; 102 Fulfillment;
111B To Die no More; 131T Messiah; 163 Morning;
Probably more
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: P. Dan Brittain <pdan.b...@gmail.com>
>> To: fasola-so...@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 8:44:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [fasola-songwriters: 271] Re: Composition Workshop Notes.
>>
>> If you want a faster tempo, you choose one of the modes of time that
>> goes along with it. The text rhythm may be in 3 but the tune rhythm is
>> in some sort of 2.
163 would seem to be a partial exception - the way it's usually slowly
sung it should probably be 2/2.
>>
>> That gives an effect in the rhythm of a "bump" where it doesn't seem
>> to belong; but, it is very much a part of our tradition. If you re-bar
>> the tune, it removes that bump and the tune doesn't sound like Sacred
>> Harp.
>>
Re-barring those tunes changes the character.
--
Wade Kotter
Everyone who commented said that they liked if very much at the slower tempo.
Wade
P. Dan Brittain
> Thanks, Dan. FYI, I led NOVAKOSKY in 2/2 at our monthly singling last night.
> Everyone who commented said that they liked if very much at the slower tempo.
>
This is another one which could be done in 3; but again, the accents
would shift.
Robert Vaughn
> Mostly plain tunes -
>
> 32T Corinth; 38B Windham; 39T Detroit; 39B Sharpsburg; 47T
> Primrose;
> 48T Devotion; 48B Kedron; 55 Siistr's Farewell; 60 Days of
> Worship; 66
> Home; 68T Salem; 69T Minister's Farewell; 77T Child of
> Grace; 81T
> Beach Spring; 89 Church's Desolation; 94Never Part; 102
> Fulfillment;
> 111B To Die no More; 131T Messiah; 163 Morning;
>
> Probably more
>
I looked over the first few of these and am thinking they must be saying these should be in triple time rather than common or duple time. Is that correct? I think Windham is in triple time in our church book, and I know To Die No More is.
P. Dan Brittain
>
>> Mostly plain tunes -
>>
>> 32T Corinth; 38B Windham; 39T Detroit; 39B Sharpsburg; 47T
>> Primrose;
>> 48T Devotion; 48B Kedron; 55 Siistr's Farewell; 60 Days of
>> Worship; 66
>> Home; 68T Salem; 69T Minister's Farewell; 77T Child of
>> Grace; 81T
>> Beach Spring; 89 Church's Desolation; 94Never Part; 102
>> Fulfillment;
>> 111B To Die no More; 131T Messiah; 163 Morning;
>>
>> Probably more
>>
> I looked over the first few of these and am thinking they must be saying these should be in triple time rather than common or duple time. Is that correct? I think Windham is in triple time in our church book, and I know To Die No More is.
>
But with our sense of accent when singing they are traditionally in 2
in our book.
Wade Kotter
My understanding of the "mis-barring" issue, which I believe is confirmed by the
examples Dan provided, is that songs which are considered "mis-barred" by modern
analysts are ones in which stressed syllables in the poetry do not match up with
accented beats in the music. Given what I learned about accent in the SH
tradition from Tom Malone and others at Camp Fasola, I believe the modern "rule"
that stressed syllables in the text must correspond with accented beats in the
music was not among the "rules" followed by most 19th century
composers/arrangers in the SH tradition. To me, the traditional barring, even
though it might break the "rules", almost always makes musical sense when
viewed/sung/heard in context. So this, I would argue, is a tradition we
shouldn't tinker with. Do we really want to abandon the sense of accent we
treasure in these good old tunes by re-barring them? After all, these songs
regularly "violate" modern rules of harmony and voice leading, and I don't think
anyone would suggest that we change them to conform. Should barring be treated
any different? And if a modern composer wishes to "mis-bar" her/his tune in
conformity with the tradition, more power to them I say.
Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT
----- Original Message ----
> From: P. Dan Brittain <pdan.b...@gmail.com>
> To: fasola-so...@googlegroups.com
Robert Vaughn
It certainly wouldn't hurt for a modern Sacred Harp composer to seek some advice if he or she is concerned about time/barring issues of a song. But we shouldn't cow to some man-made rule that doesn't have to apply.
Interestingly, there are some examples of rebarring in the Sacred Harp. Here a few I can think of offhand.
410 The Dying Californian. The Denson book changes to 3/2 from the original presentation in 4/4. Not sure why (or when, probably goes back to James book?).
447 Boylston. The Cooper book goes in the other direction, changing the original 3/2 to 4/4, possibly making it more similar to the examples Dan gave in the earlier e-mail.
454 The Blessed Lamb. The Cooper book changes from 3/4 to 2/4 in the opening section. Not sure why, but in my experience classes seem to have more difficultly getting started singing it in 3/4 than 2/4. But this is just anecdotal and may have little to do with why it was changed.
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
--- On Thu, 11/4/10, Wade Kotter <wadek...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Wade Kotter
----- Original Message ----
> From: Robert Vaughn <rl_v...@yahoo.com>
> To: fasola-so...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:01:36 AM
> Subject: [fasola-songwriters: 284] Re: Mis-barring [was: Composition Workshop
>Notes]
>
> I think the "mis-barring" is a matter of opinion. Someone can always come up
>with a rule after the fact to make it look like someone else has done something
>wrong. There is a lot of > science in music, but ultimately it is art, and art
>comes down to taste. Whether one likes beautiful photographs or abstract
>paintings, Bach or B. F. White (or both) is a matter of
> personal taste.
I couldn't agree more.
>
> It certainly wouldn't hurt for a modern Sacred Harp composer to seek some
>advice if he or she is concerned about time/barring issues of a song. But we
>shouldn't cow to some
> man-made rule that doesn't have to apply.
Makes perfect sense to me.
>
> Interestingly, there are some examples of rebarring in the Sacred Harp. Here a
>few I can think of offhand.
>
> 410 The Dying Californian. The Denson book changes to 3/2 from the original
>presentation in 4/4. Not sure why (or when, probably goes back to James book?).
Hadn't noticed this before. And one singing I went to (can't remember where),
the leader asked the class to sing 410 in 4/4 instead or 3/2, and now I know
why. However, the leader abandoned the idea after the class struggled mightily
through the first verse even though it included some very experienced
traditional singers.
>
> 447 Boylston. The Cooper book goes in the other direction, changing the
>original 3/2 to 4/4, possibly making it more similar to the examples Dan gave
>in the earlier e-mail.
>
Yes, I think this change makes this Lowell Mason tune conform better with the
traditional sense of accent. Maybe this is why it's not one of my favorite tunes
when sung in 3/2. :-)
KarenWillard
handful of other songs, at one time it was printed in the Cooper book
in what I call "piano format". That is, there were only two staves and
the top staff had the melody and the alto while the bottom staff took
the other two parts.
This song entered the Cooper book in 1902 in 4 staves, but for the
1907 edition it appeared in the piano format. For the 1909 edition it
was put back into 4 staves. An example (of several that have been
cited here and on the Discussions list) of the singers rising up and
asserting their authority to determine what and how the songs are sung
or even presented.
The text used here is the 2nd verse of the hymn beginning with "Death
shall not destroy my comfort..." found, among other places, in Zion's
Songster of 1827 (found after much searching). All you composers are
putting on your completed songs where you get your texts and who wrote
'em, right?
Karen
Annie Grieshop
nuts is 59. Delete that initial half rest, and the song becomes a joy
to lead. Guess I'm just not tough enough.
Regarding the Missouri Harmony: I had an interesting correspondence with
Hal Kunkle about Ten Thousand Charms and why he set it in duple, rather
than triple. I still don't know why, exactly, but he said he considered
both and settled on duple (even though he agrees it leads more easily in
triple).
And while thinking of the Missouri Harmony and the problems it has... I
wonder how many cases of mis-barring are actually due to printers and
the rest of the folks who come between the manuscript and the press,
rather than the composer, et al. Since dried ink creates tradition, it
can be tough to change things once singers have become accustomed to
them, even if they're not optimum. Obviously, there are times when they
do get changed, as in the Cooper books "piano format". Hope abounds!
Annie
> =======
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Wade Kotter
before, my current favorite tool for finding text origins/attributions is:
In case you didn't know, hymnary.org now includes the full indexing from the
Dictionary of North American Hymnology and also the biographical information
from Julian's Dictionary of Hymnology. Tune information is also being added.
Another source I use more and more is Google Books. Often if I search for the
first line of a text in quotes, I can find instances of texts in 17th and 18th
century collections not available at hymnary.org. I can also find commentary
about the texts from sources like Julian's Dictionary of Hymnology, which is now
available on Google Books.
So, yes, if you don't do it already, please put the source of your text and the
name of the poet on your completed songs. And if you're not sure, post a query
on this list or the discussions list and chances are someone will be able to
find it for you or point you in the right direction.
Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT
Wade Kotter
Google Books.
Wade
----- Original Message ----
> From: Wade Kotter <wadek...@yahoo.com>
> To: fasola-so...@googlegroups.com
Wade Kotter
Personally, I like 59 as it is written, but I understand your concern. It is
definitely difficult to lead, especially if the class neglects to follow the
leader. It would be interesting to know how this appears in the 1825 first
printing in Moore's Columbian Harmony. I think Dick Hulan has photocopies of the
Columbian Harmony that he made from microfilm back in the early 1970s.
As to the prevalence of printer's errors in, we will of course never know for
sure. But there are so many examples of so-called mis-barring in the SH and
other tune books back into the 18th century, including Billings and other New
England composers, that I suspect most of these examples were printed according
to the composers/arrangers specifications. But I've been wrong before!
Wade
----- Original Message ----
> From: Annie Grieshop <an...@allthingspiano.com>
> To: fasola-so...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: KarenWillard <goo...@weelyrd.net>
> Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 11:36:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [fasola-songwriters: 287] Re: Mis-barring [was: Composition
>Workshop Notes]
>
Robert Vaughn
But I have tried to be a little more careful recently. Sometimes I don't know the writer, and have just put "unknown" or "anonymous". In that case, though, it probably is really important to put where you found the text.
One fairly recent text by an unspecified author I listed thusly:
Thoughts on Psalm 86
From Pratt's Collection
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
--- On Thu, 11/4/10, Wade Kotter <wadek...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Wade Kotter <wadek...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [fasola-songwriters: 288] Including Text Attributions on New Compositions
Robert Vaughn
--- On Thu, 11/4/10, Wade Kotter <wadek...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 410 The Dying Californian. The Denson book
> changes to 3/2 from the original
> >presentation in 4/4. Not sure why (or when,
> probably goes back to James book?).
>
> Hadn't noticed this before. And one singing I went to
> (can't remember where),
> the leader asked the class to sing 410 in 4/4 instead or
> 3/2, and now I know
> why. However, the leader abandoned the idea after the class
> struggled mightily
> through the first verse even though it included some very
> experienced
> traditional singers.
>
I did something similar with "To Die No More", asking the class to try it in 3/4. I just wanted to hear it that way since I had heard it that way in church. Pretty much the same results, except that I should have abandoned the idea.
Robert Vaughn
I notice that J. L. White retooled it in his book and that it begins on the downbeat.
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
--- On Thu, 11/4/10, Wade Kotter <wadek...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Wade Kotter <wadek...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [fasola-songwriters: 290] Re: Mis-barring [was: Composition Workshop Notes]
> To: fasola-so...@googlegroups.com
Annie Grieshop
cross-ways while leading it one time... and have never felt relaxed
about it since. That's when I stopped and really looked at how it is
barred. And wondered why it is so.
It's very interesting to read the text with strong emphasis on the
downbeat, as-written and as it might be re-barred -- it does make a
difference in what's being said.
(But I'd still prefer it started differently. Maybe it's just a
reflection of all the years I've spent playing piano for barndances,
where it's my job to keep that solid downbeat!)
Annie
Thomas Malone
Here's a different view, for your consideration.
*There are no songs in the Sacred Harp that are mis-barred.*
Because . . .
1) A measure-bar divides the time in a song.
2) A broad bar or phrase bar shows the end of a musical phrase or
sentence of poetry (as in 128)
3) A broad bar can answer for a measure bar, but does not always do so
(as in 128)
-- In modern hymnals we like to see the musical phrase begin and end
neatly fenced in by the bar-lines,
-- Sacred Harp pre-dates that practice
-- The TRIPLE feeling of 3/2 within Common time has just as much to do
with the *poetry* as it does with music. Because. . .
Long Meter in Common Time is hard to do. Period.
Judy Hauff taught me this...
You just can't make the words and bars line up... Every other phrase
is "off" . . .
Look at page 48 in the Denson book. . . Either of these can be felt
in three big beats, but it's the poetry.
The air in the Tenor is a Long Meter tune . . . Why? ... because of
the words. Think about it.
Any LM text sung in 4/4 eventually starts sounding like Esther! --
and thus feels like it is "in three"
8.7.8.7. presents a similar problem to 8.8.8.8. (as in 335)
Page 38b shows one way around this -- extend the time between phrases
with a tied note.
But, when Lowell Mason re-harmonized Windham, he put it in Triple time
you know. . .
So clearly he thought it was mis-barred.
(Hmmmmm....see where I'm going here?)
What feels like mis-barring is just the fact that the Musical Accent
and Poetic Accent are
coming into alignment "every other" phrase. A singers we can keep the
time moving steadily and
enjoy the way the accent shifts back and forth, even seeing artistry
in the way that the accented syllables
move from the accented beat, to the upward stroke, and then shift back
onto the down. . .
We all enjoy that right? That's why this topic is fun to talk about!
But in our rudiments TIME and ACCENT are separate but equal heads,
therefore each one matters: one for speed and rhythms, and the other for poetry.
So the phenomena we feel is real, but we gain nothing by seeing it as an error.
It is a cool part of our music, and its been there from the beginning . . .
The notion of mis-barring is not any part of the singing-school tradition,
and likely comes entirely from academics studying old tunebooks mid-Century
And there's nobody more unbearable that these LONG-WINDED professors
that just go on, and on, . . . uh . . . well . . .
Oh, wait a minute -- that's -- me.
( . . . . . . . . grins . . . . . . . .)
WELL, Anyway that's why I believe there is *no such thing as
mis-barring in the Sacred Harp.*
At least from a rudiments-based perspective.
Rather than seeing it as an error... just admit that we all love it!
That's why the topic is perennial.
Not that I have any strong views on this, or anything . . .
Disjointedly yours,
Tom Malone (who feels he may have said too much)
--
Dr. Thomas B. Malone
Assistant Professor of Music
Molloy College
Rockville Centre, NY 11571
Charles Woods
| Well-said; not too many words, just enough to end this discussion. |
|
Robert Vaughn
Well said, I agree. But if you think anyone can use just enough words to end a fasola discussion, you don't know us very well!
 Blessings, |
Robert Vaughn Mount Enterprise, TX http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/ Ask for the old paths, where is the good way. http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/ For ask now of the days that are past... http://oldredland.blogspot.com/ Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. |
--- On Fri, 11/5/10, Charles Woods <stillret...@yahoo.com> wrote: |
Robert Vaughn
--- On Fri, 11/5/10, Thomas Malone <shap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Long Meter in Common Time is hard to do. Period.
> Judy Hauff taught me this...
> You just can't make the words and bars line up... Every
> other phrase
> is "off" . . .
>
Perhaps this is where blissful ignorance pays dividends. Out of curiosity I took a look (via Excel sort) and found about 60% of my long meter tunes are in common time (and a couple more mixed). Lowell Mason might change most all of them to triple time, but I'll just enjoy his songs I like, pay attention to him if I wish, and ignore him when his theories run counter to ours.
Thomas Malone
: )
I'm not looking to end the discussion . . . or any . . .
My idea was just see what happens when we keep looking the at the same phenomena, but lay aside the term "mis-barred"
So there's no reason to stop talking about the phenomena, or any.
Terms are useful, until they aren't. Right?
"Cross accent" of poetry and music could be just as useful of a term for the same thing.
Until that term gets 'tired" and we lay it aside too....
So let's keep the discussion going!
- - - -
Now, what about the big opening rest in Holy Manna, that Annie mentioned?
That is a topic all it's own!
We haven't started in on that yet.
I thought it sounded really odd the first time I heard it . . . I wanted to keep on singing the verse!
Now, I am the most vigilant observer of that rest I know.
But deep down, I still just want to keep on singing. . .
Is anyone with me?
If so let's start a thread on that!
All the best,
Tom M
Wade Kotter
and without the beginning rest, I believe one reason that I like singing it with
the rest at the beginning is that it puts the last word of the first two lines
(in the case of the first verse, God and word) on a downbeat instead of an
upbeat; it also stresses these words by using a whole note instead of a half
note. Make sense to anyone else?
Also, in looking back at my old books and reprints, I noticed that the 1835
"Southern Harmony" and all 19th century editions of "The Sacred Harp" have the
repeat dots in the first measureafter the opening rest instead of before, which
doesn't make sense. Seems like an obvious printers error to me, but I would
still like to see Moore's original version.
Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT
Annie Grieshop
have wondered whether that's why it's barred as it is. Can't think of
any other reasonable explanation for the way it's printed. ;->
As long as you treat the note in the 5th bar as a half-note, then the
19th century repeat sign placement makes good sense and keeps the tune
flowing with "no lost time". And the half-rest at the beginning of each
verse simply serves as a pick-up note.
In fact, now that you remind me, it's that whole-note/half-rest sequence
that throws everything off for me, as my first inclination is always to
go right back in. And many other singers obviously want to do it, as well.
Thanks, Wade! It always helps to have the stumbling block pointed out
again and again -- someday I'll remember it's there before I trip over it.
Annie
Robert Vaughn
The thing that made me think "mis-barred" with this tune is the fact that the beginning sequence of 5 measures, which begin on an upbeat, is repeated at the end of the song, beginning on a downbeat. But Tom's point is well-made and should be well-taken. The "mis-" implies something wrong, a mistake. If the composer intended it this way -- or even if later compilers and revisers intended to revise it that way -- there is no "mis"take.
Robert Vaughn
Mt. Enterprise, TX
Annie Grieshop
the whole note had to appear to fill out the time. Would somebody take
a look at the old editions and let us know what the sequence was?
As for "mis"takes... take a look at any group of editions of the same
tune (in any style), and you'll find that each editor (or printer, when
you go back far enough that they were the same person) is likely to have
made some changes to the printed music.
And hand-set type is a whole other universe. Having done it, I know how
hard it is to keep "mis"taeks from happening! And I wasn't working with
music, which is much more complex.
Our only source of real knowledge of the composer's intentions is the
original holographic manuscript (and a lwhole ot of background on
notational styles and history).
And now I'm gonna go clean the barn and leave y'all in peace!
Annie
Wade Kotter
following the rest and a whole note at the end of the first phrase. The 1844
Sacred Harp printing is identical to
Walker's. I'll email Dick Hulan and see if he'll send me a copy of HOLY MANNA
from William Moore's 1825 "Columbian Harmony", which is still, I believe, the
earliest known printing of the tune.
Wade
----- Original Message ----
> From: Annie Grieshop <an...@allthingspiano.com>
Annie Grieshop
singers to figure out what was meant!
After several decades "doing" lots of hands-on history for a living, my
firm belief is that people do all sorts of things for all sorts of
un-rational reasons. Nobody noticed; it was good enough; ah, we all
knew what it meant; I'll be gone in the morning....
So repeat signs and whole notes show up in direct contradiction to each
other -- and the singers just keep singing. Thank goodness!
Back to the barn (forgot my gloves),
Annie
Robert Vaughn
Cf. original printing of Ocean in SH:
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/ssb/display.cfm?TitleID=610&Format=jpg&PageNum=221
Through long use we embraced the error, liked it, and deliberately reproduced it in the 2006 printing (except it a way that clarifies it is no longer an "error").
On Holy Manna, here are some image files available online, but not as old as Wade is looking for:
http://www.shapenote.net/berkley/244.jpg
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/walker/harmony/files/hymn/Holy_Manna.html
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/ssb/display.cfm?TitleID=610&Format=jpg&PageNum=58
Interesting is the Hesperian Harp, which has the "traditional" version, and then a 2/4 version by Hauser.
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
--- On Fri, 11/5/10, Annie Grieshop <an...@allthingspiano.com> wrote:
Robert Vaughn
> is a good example of this.
Of course, there is no song on 22 in the Cooper Book. That would be 222.
Wade Kotter
top he prints it in 4/4 with the repeat sign before the rest and a whole note,
attributing it to William Moore. On the bottom, he prints his own arrangement in
2/4 without a rest but with a half note. This puts both the first syllable and
the last syllable of the first section on the downbeat, which matches one thing
about the way it appears in the 1991 ed.
Wade
----- Original Message ----
> From: Robert Vaughn <rl_v...@yahoo.com>
> To: fasola-so...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, November 5, 2010 11:43:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [fasola-songwriters: 306] HOLY MANNA [was: Mis-barring] [was:
>Composition Workshop Notes]
>
Wade Kotter
about the way it appears in the 1991 ed. The absent-minded professor strikes
again.
Robert Vaughn
http://www.shapenote.net/berkley/163.jpg
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/walker/harmony/files/hymn/Sweet_Rivers.html
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/ssb/display.cfm?TitleID=610&Format=jpg&PageNum=60
The similarity that I refer is that a section in the beginning that starts on the downbeat -- measures 4 & 5 -- is repeated in the refrain/second section beginning on the upbeat (in last 3 measures).
A contrast in the two:
In the 1859/60 SH on Holy Manna, at the beginning the repeat dots are placed after the half rest; while on Sweet Rivers the repeat dots are placed before the half rest. Perhaps this indicates that on Holy Manna White intended to half the whole note and go back to the half note at the beginning without a rest?? Just a thought. (But the second placement of the rest in Sweet Rivers might contradict that thought).
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
--- On Fri, 11/5/10, Wade Kotter <wadek...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Through long use we embraced the error, liked
> it, and deliberately reproduced
> >it in the 2006 printing (except it a way that
> clarifies it is no longer an
> >"error").
> >
> > On Holy Manna, here are some image files available
> online, but not as old as
> >Wade is looking for:
> > http://www.shapenote.net/berkley/244.jpg
> > http://www.ccel.org/ccel/walker/harmony/files/hymn/Holy_Manna.html
> >http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/ssb/display.cfm?TitleID=610&Format=jpg&PageNum=58
> >8
> >
Wade Kotter
The placement of the repeat dots after the half-rest goes back as least as far
as the 1835 1st edition of the "Southern Harmony," so I don't think it can be
attributed to White. My guess is that this was a printing error in the "Southern
Harmony" that was perpetuated in the "Sacred Harp" and that Moore's 1825
original will have the repeat dots before the rest and a whole note at the end
of the first section. Dick Hulan is "excavating" his files to see if he has a
copy of HOLY MANNA from Moore's "Columbian Harmony." To me, the similarity you
note with Moore's SWEET RIVER supports the notion that both are notated as Moore
intended except for the "mis-placed" repeat dots in the first measure of HOLY
MANNA. Isn't this stuff fascinating and just plain fun, although not as fun as
singing these great tunes?!
Wade
----- Original Message ----
> From: Robert Vaughn <rl_v...@yahoo.com>
> To: fasola-so...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, November 5, 2010 5:06:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [fasola-songwriters: 310] HOLY MANNA [was: Mis-barring] [was:
>Composition Workshop Notes]
>
Annie Grieshop
singers... they blew right through the initial half rest on the repeat
of the verse. It was really pretty funny (to me, at least), but the
leader was a fairly new singer and couldn't figure out the confusion. I
empathized with her mightily! Thankfully, she finally got it, relaxed,
and had fun.
But I'm so happy to announce that Iowa now has two all-day singings,
with the addition of the Saints Rest singing in Grinnell yesterday. And
as the arranging committee, I was able to encourage new singers to get
up in the square, based on the fact that it was pretty obvious that
nobody was watching the leader when we sang Holy Manna!
Annie
Will Fitzgerald
It starts from this basic understanding of The Sacred Harp as a
tunebook, not a hymnbook. That is, in large part, The Sacred Harp is a
collection of tunes (that happen to have texts assigned to them),
rather than a collection of tune and text pairings. We remember our
history here: most early (American) hymnbooks were words only books;
tunes weren’t assigned to the texts, but meters were. And some of us
still carry around a book like Lloyd’s Primitive Hymns, in which this
is still true.
So, for example, we can confidently sing the words to Newton’s hymn
text Amazing Grace to New Britain (45t), but also to any common meter
tune, such as Mear (49b) or Abbeville (33b).
But more importantly, since the tunes are normally separate from the
texts, it makes no sense to say that a tune is misbarred, since
misbarring implies a tune’s barring does not match the text in a
tune/text pairing. But we don’t have a tune/text pairing. So, the tune
cannot logically be called “misbarred.”
True?
--
Will
Robert Vaughn
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
--- On Tue, 11/9/10, Will Fitzgerald <will.fi...@pobox.com> wrote:
Thomas Malone
Makes sense to me!
It starts from this basic understanding of The Sacred Harp as a
tunebook, not a hymnbook.
But many times the texts "gave birth" to the tunes spontaneously at
Camp Meetings . . .
Like Abbeville -- so it couls have arisen with any number of SM texts
"A charge to keep"
"The day is past and gone"
etc...
But it was likely sung before it was notated.
Therefore the composer was stuck figuring out a mode of time that
would go with the "air" that he remembered hearing.
Ingalls set "The General Doom" in Common Time while it's cousins 33b
(& Golden Hill) are all in triple time.
- - - -
So I am with you! It's how each writer solved this puzzle that makes it fun!
Tom M
--
Greg Freed
Thanks,
On Sunday, October 31, 2010 at 7:37:46 PM UTC-7, Aldous wrote:
Singing friends and tunesmiths,
Please take a moment to browse over the following document. Basically,
it is meant as a sort of beginner’s guide for singers who are
interested in Sacred Harp tunewriting, but have little or no
experience, and/or have otherwise had little or no training in music
theory. (Some of you may recognize it as the handout I prepared for my
Camp Fasola composition lessons in 2009 and 2010. However, I have made
a few minor amendments to it since this past summer, and hope to
further improve it before I teach workshops in Ireland in a couple of
weeks.)
I’m particularly interested to hear if there is anything that folks on
this list find unclear or in error, or if there are any important
omissions that I should perhaps rectify (keeping in mind that this
guide is designed to offer general guidance and tips on basic part-
writing; while mostly leaving more advanced issues of harmony for a
later time). Of course, any other feedback would also be welcome and
greatly appreciated.
The document is available here:
http://fasola-songwriters.googlegroups.com/web/SACRED%20HARP%20TUNEWRITING%20WORKSHOP%20(31%20October,%202010).pdf?gsc=9oBzqAsAAAAdVddwch4Pfd-1FeC8HLwA
Thanks so much for your time!
Aldous.
Wade Kotter
http://www.robertkelleyphd.com/ShapeNoteMusic/SacredHarpHarmonyPresentation.pdf
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