Query about a tune

[Ted Johnson]

Hi folks,

I’ve been sort of a lurker in this group over the years, enjoying the discussions but without anything to contribute. Now I’m seeking any reactions to a tune I initially wrote back in the eighties and only looked at again recently. Every time I'd hear the text “Hark from the tombs” sung to the tune of  “Should auld acquaintance” it always kind of bothered me, so I came up with something that turned out to be a Mixolydian tune, not even realizing back then that Sacred Harp tunes don’t seem to come in that mode. (Actually, are there any in Denson?) Now, in my foolish dotage, I’m wondering if the tune is even worth salvaging. I had tried it out in a singing but I think its was confusing to the singers, because for some reason I think I had it in E flat—anyway, it was sprinkled with accidentals. I have to say I always feel a little dyslexic  in terms of notation (thank God for the computer), but I think it was John Beale who wrote me suggesting having the tune start on SOL instead of FA. Later I had some correspondence with Jacob Kiakahi, who was wonderfully generous and helpful to me; and he also suggested having SOL as the tonic. He took the trouble to send me the tune re-notated, and wrote:

“Ok, if you currently have it in Eb Mixolydian, because you are aiming to get it pitched in what a piano would call D, what I would recommend is bringing it up a half step in your notation to E mixolydian and using an A Major key signature (simply because that key conforms to sacred harp convention more -- it's very rare for tunes to be written in Ab Major). So now the Major scale FA will be on the A, and your mixolydian tonic / first note of the scale will be on the E /SOL. Your mixolydian major triad will be E-G-B, Sol-Mi-Sol.”

I showed this iteration to Judy Hauff, who says she likes the tune a lot, and she replied,

 “I think it's brilliant.  I had to go to a keyboard to get it straight in my head: three sharps is normally A major, but if the tune is started and ended on E keeping those same sharps, you wind up with E Mixolydian.  Of course you could do this trick with any other pair of keys a fifth apart, but this key puts it in a nice singable range.”

So at our January convention I tried—rather ineptly—leading the new version (Judy was home ill or would have helped me with the pitching), but—partly I think because of my current hearing loss—I couldn’t make anything of the result. Folks were seeing it for the first time; anyway it didn’t sound like a success.

So I’m wondering what anybody else might think of this (probably both my first and my last tune). I do like, with this text, the mournful sound of the tenor melody—but who knows, this tune just may not fit comfortably into the Sacred Harp style. Any thoughts?

Ted Johnson

(Now I’ve got to see if I can succeed in enclosing the pdf.)

[Robert Vaughn]

Hi, Ted,

I just read your e-mail, and have opened up and taken a look at your tune. It is interesting and the tenor looks enjoyable -- even though the Mixolydian thing goes way over my head. (I have to think of it as A major that ends on the 5th, which makes sense to me.) I know trained musicians can look at these things and see Aeolian, Mixolydian, Dorian and such Modes, but the average Sacred Harp singer trained in Sacred Harp rudiments sees songs as either major or minor. I am unaware of any songs in either the Cooper, Denson, or J. L. White books that cannot be designated as such, even if someone tells us "you are really singing in ..."

All that to say, I don't see anything wrong with your tune as a tune, but I do see it as something that is problematic for Sacred Harp classes to try to sing. We might compare that to the moods of time in Sacred Harp. It's not that a song can't be written in 9/8, 12/8 or 5/4 (whatever that is) but they just generally aren't for Sacred Harp purposes (there is the one 12/8 exception in the J. L. White book).

I hope this makes sense. It is not intended to be discouraging, but I guess it probably is anyway. Just trying to look it from a practical angle.

His glories sing,

Robert Vaughn 

Mount Enterprise, TX

http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com 

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way

http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com 

For ask now of the days that are past...

http://oldredland.blogspot.com 

Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.

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[James Page]

Hi Ted,

I haven't had time to plunk this out on a keyboard to see how it sounds, but I remember singing an earlier version of this tune many years ago.

I'll offer a different opinion than Robert.  I find having the tune notated as Mixolydian makes it easier to read than if it's notated as Major with accidentals.  It's following the logic of the shape-note system.  I also think a Mixolydian tune is appropriate, as long as it fits a harmonic style that could be considered "Old Harp," which seems to be the case here.  I also get a bit bored with Major and Minor, so it's nice to see something different.

I can't promise, but I'll try to find time to see what the harmonization sounds like and comment.

Jim Page

[Ted Johnson]

Thanks Robert! Your reaction is very helpful and useful--and I think correct; and it doesn't really surprise me that much, since I think it accurately reflects the true Sacred Harp tradition--which at the time I wrote this tune I was still new to, although for years I'd already been singing and playing lots of anglo-American folksongs using this mode (even if I didn't know it was called "mixolydian"--think of many Scottish bagpipe or Irish fiddle tunes for instance). And I do hear it as a major tune because it does have that major third. (Just think of singing a major scale but simply lowering the seventh.) Meanwhile of course, I think a traditional Sacred Harp class (without even thinking about it) just naturally hears the Dorian mode with its raised sixth, even when it's not notated that way.

I believe music should feel natural and comfortable for the instrument it's composed for--and in this case that instrument is a good traditional-over-the-generations Sacred Harp class. (I've always felt that if such a class sings a tune of mine differently from how I wrote it, I should probably change it to fit.)

I think there might have been a discussion of some of this on a fasola list years ago that I can't find now, except for the following quote from John Garst, who observed that the writers of the Rudiments saw only two kinds of tunes:

“Since Mixolydian tunes are not minor (they have a major third), they must be major.” [He also pointed out that] it's subjective. Once you are used to what might be called a Mixolydian ending, it will sound appropriate, I believe, but I also think that people who are steeped in conventional tunes of recent times would find a melody ending on the dominant Sol to be unusual and to be waiting for a proper resolution…[but] people who are appropriately acclimated, I believe, are likely to accept as natural tunes that end on any degree of the scale.”

Actually, I think my tune as notated here is irregular because the SOL is not dominant, but tonic.  The point of notating it this way was to get rid of all those confusing  accidentals. But hey, at this point I'm running quite out of my limited knowledge of musical theory--I've really always done everything by ear! And I think your ear, Robert, hits the nail on the head--so thanks again!

All the best, Ted J.

[Ted Johnson]

Jim, thanks for your comment, which I respect very much because I do like your own tunes so much!

[Robert Vaughn]

Jim, you wrote that you find having the tune notated as Mixolydian makes it easier to read than if it's notated as Major with accidentals. I don't disagree with that. I hope I am capable of explainging it. I don't care to see a bunch of accidentals in shape note music (really, zero suits me, so I might like the old modes method had I learned at some point early in life). On the other hand, Mixolydian has no meaning to me (and I suspect that is true for a good portion of SH singers, though that may be changing). So when I sang the melody of Ted's tune I just played like it was A major to find my key note, and then sang it.

His glories sing,

Robert Vaughn 

Mount Enterprise, TX

http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com 

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way

http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com 

For ask now of the days that are past...

http://oldredland.blogspot.com 

Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.

[Dan]

My tune "Sarabavam" is also in the Mixolydian mode. I set it with the tonic on Sol, as is done with Ted's tune. It's published in the 2009 edition of An American Christmas Harp. For that setting, Karen put the tonic on Fa and flatted all the Mis. The tune is the same but the feel is different.

I like it with the tonic on Sol but it has its disadvantages. The keyer has to key it as Sol-Mi-Sol (if sounding the triad) and that confuses people until they get used to it. Which seems to take a while. Still, I like it because it preserves the relationships between the shapes and avoids accidentals. Also, it highlights the beauty of the 4 shape system: With Sol as the tonic and dominant, you can really hear how the relationships between fa, sol, and la mirror each other in the subscales.

I've attached both settings of Sarabavam in case anyone wants to compare them.

Someone also published a Mixolydian tune in one of the later issues of The Trumpet. I just checked online and it looks like that website is down. Or maybe it has moved?

Dan Thoma

Portland, OR

[R. C. Webber]

I like the tune and hope to try it out with a class.  Regarding the text, an alternative is Walker's setting of it to Fiducia in Christian Harmony (7 shapes).

I have experimented with Mixolydian only to a limited extent.  In general, to convert from Ionian (natural major) to Mixolydian, remove a sharp from a key signature with sharps or add a flat to C major or a key signature with flats.  Because I am so accustomed to having fa as the tonic and reading accidentals, I would prefer to keep it that way.  However, I would stick with my previous suggestion of shaping the tune whichever way will work for the majority of the singers.  As a keyer, I can accommodate myself to a different Mixolydian triad as needed, though I probably would comment beforehand to avoid confusing the singers.

Dan has commented already on Sarabavam.  I don't have my Southern Harmony with me but suppose you might want to look at Condescension.

One of my organ improvisations that I turned into a shape note hymn is attached (.pdf).  The section with the D natural illustrates a limited use of the Mixolydian mode within a basically Ionian tune more suited to conventional hymnody.

Randy