Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[j frankel]

To people saying "huh what" to the *more* part here, well, in the thread about "how to explain shapes" when teaching them in Japan, I dropped some of my net-search findings telling that Garden Hymn turned out to be a favorite of missionaries to eastern Asia, but, more importantly, it became a favorite tune of the converts there; the tune, which I love, does not sound to me like it would have features concurrent with various Asian modes which would make it to the especial liking of groups there, but they like it all the same.  Maybe its just "the universal language-ness" of music; a great tune is a great tune.

Its so popular still that it turns up in videos for Unification Church of Sung Myung Moon mass-weddings.  Brrr.  But also, you can't govern what a tune will be used for once its out in the world.

I have only heard the music behind these (& in more-to-my-liking Asian videos), & can verify its the same tune, but don't know what lyrics they are singing; however, the tune is usually named "Song of the Garden", so will assume the lyrics are at least similar to the lyrics in English.

That was the recap.

Now the "some more" part:

Here's a link to a thread on mudcat café that discussed Garden Hymn: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=148882

The discussers wisely immediately surmise that "those lyrics Moira Smiley is singing probably aren't the Sacred Harp lyrics".  (And they're not!)  They then go on to give what is possibly the original publication of the lyrics, though I would welcome any additional info on that.  For those who are not digging into the mudcat discussion yet, here's a link to "Meditations Among the Tombs", 1824, by James Hervey:

 https://books.google.com/books?id=tsM9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA143&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false: . 

He doesn't credit himself with the lyrics, but doesn't credit anyone else either, so the mudcat discusser thinks he probably did write them, & I'd tend to agree unless shown an earlier credited source.

The verses in SH are 1 & 5 of the "Pentacost Hymn" in "Among the Tombs".  A lot of folkies (in addition to Smiley) who have recorded the song (but not extensively rewritten it as Smiley did) put in verse 2 in "Pentacost Hymn", which is verse 2 in SH Nashville, which shares lyrics with Garden Hymn.

What I'm going to do if I ever remember to get to a Xerox machine before a singing is not only include 2 of "Pentacost Hymn" as verse 2, but put a 4th verse on which is the final verse in "Pentacost Hymn", & which if you search for it on the net is used as a lead verse in other hymns, but hymns not in SH:

Amen, Amen, my soul replies

I'm bound to meet you in the skies

And seek my mansion there

And seek my mansion there

Now here's my heart & here's my hand

To meet you in the heavenly land

Where we shall part no more 

Where we shall part no more

Now some philosophizing, which I do at my own peril:

We generally don't discuss the religion in the songs even on this the discussion group.  That follows the custom of generally keeping the religion in the *songs* at singings too; its a singing, not a church session, & people can call a song with a message they want if they want to do that without preaching on it.  The song does the preaching for them. Those that appreciate the message will appreciate it, & those that don't will probably sing on the song anyway.  But they all have messages; its not "Secular Harp".

So some people may wonder why at local more-informal singings I call this song a lot. I generally don't lead at big singings because you really wouldn't want to see me try, believe me; I can beat time, & I can sing, but I tend to throw in a few extra things while keeping time for myself that wouldn't look good in the center of the square, & I prefer to concentrate on singing, which is what I came to do, anyway.  But at small, local singings you can generally call a song & have someone who knows what they're doing lead it, or if the group is small enough, no-one leads in the center; people who need to see leading watch the front bench.

But my philosophy, which I'm sharing at my peril here, is that being Jewish I'm not going to call songs which are very heavy on Christian themes.  No matter how much I may love the *tune*.  Well, this one seems on the face of it to have a Christian-enough theme.  My answer is that its a "Grace of G-d" song, but in Christian theology that grace is mediated through Jesus.  In *my* theology its not, but I can still sing this song without personal qualms. 

Now, when you look at the full lyrics in "Pentacost Hymn", there is a lot of "army of Jesus" stuff that I wouldn't be as happy singing.  So I'm not going to call those verses even if I bring a copy to the singing.

I'd change in my intended verse 2 "as Jesus conquers all his foes" to "as G-d extends to all his foes".  Just because I would.  And maybe turn "And makes his people one" to "And makes all people one".

Uh oh & I'm off down rewrite lane.

Another feature of the song I much love is that I consider it a version of the "Farther Along" philosophy; life is slamming us but "we'll understand it all by & by".  (By now, I'm quoting a not-SH song that I'll bet a lot of people know, but I won't print the whole thing here.)

It sounds that way because of the current final verse: 

last half:

Our troubles & our trials here

Will only make us richer there

When we arrive at home

When we arrive at home

Why then do I want to paste on another verse after that?  ("Amen, Amen my soul replies".) Doesn't it take away from the listing of the bad stuff?

Yah, well why not take away from that.  Fond as I am of wallowing in the bad stuff, I love to picture parting being no more.  And I love the poetry in phrasing ("I'm bound to meet you in the skies; now here's my heart & here's my hand") that we would not write today but that to me strikes home.

I mentioned that to me Garden Hymn is a version of "Farther Along"; a friend who doesn't get to so many singings these days once told me they love that song when I call it because "they can smell the roses".  They say its like really being in a garden to them.  A lot of gardeners do call that song, so I don't have to get up & attempt to lead at big singings.  My friend can smell the roses even though we left the verse with the roses actually in it back in "Nashville" (hint; put it back in future printings?).

And now on to some even more philosophizing:

I don't want to call songs whose theology gives me trouble, but I certainly don't recommend that the songs get rewritten.  Yet that's what Moira Smiley (play the link:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyD5fCmLjnE

I've written these lyrics down too, but don't have them with me at present) has done.  Portland Oregon Revels performers (sheesh, Revels; boy does that phenom deserve its own rant, & I've ranted on it in other venues) perform Smiley's lyrics, I guess thinking that's the song.  Its a weird rewrite.  She's completely evicted Jesus.  No L-rd, by any name, in her song either.  But she left in eternal life.  And the dead revive in her version too!  And she left in "our troubles & our trials here" because, I'd guess & bet, even she has some.  We all do.

Another reason I love the song of course is that singing high alto I can sing the tenor part (well, except for those 2 highest notes, where some times its more an attempt at singing than actually being something you, or I for that matter, would want to hear).  If they'd pitch it even lower, I could sing it even better!  But for some strange reason, even the lowest & rumbly-est of basses object to pitching it for the altos.  (For those who are truly unfamiliar with the song, it *has* no alto part.  And I'd like to keep it that way.  I say that *as an alto*.)

Some day we hold a singing where we "pitch for the altos".  Oh, no we don't.  I've been at a few of those where that was inadvertently, I think, done.  We really don't want to be singing solo except on our actual solos.  Believe me.

[Steve Nickolas]

On Tue, 1 Mar 2016, j frankel wrote:

> To people saying "huh what" to the *more* part here, well, in the thread
> about "how to explain shapes" when teaching them in Japan, I dropped some
> of my net-search findings telling that Garden Hymn turned out to be a
> favorite of missionaries to eastern Asia, but, more importantly, it became
> a favorite tune of the converts there; the tune, which I love, does not
> sound to me like it would have features concurrent with various Asian modes
> which would make it to the especial liking of groups there, but they like
> it all the same. Maybe its just "the universal language-ness" of music; a
> great tune is a great tune.

I just listened to the melody, plugging it into my computer from Southern
Harmony. The 6:4 timing makes it rather dancey. I like.

-uso.

[j frankel]

You definitely have to sing it "dancey", like the fiddle tune it undoubtably originally was.  Otherwise it doesn't *go*.

[plu...@gmail.com]

I play the Garden Hymn on my banjo, claw hammer-style, in 6/4 time. And they say it couldn't be done.

Paul Wilson

Sent from my iPad

[j frankel]

I got lazy when typing out that long screed, so in case anyone wants to see what I object to in Moira Smiley's rewrite of Garden Hymn, as opposed to clicking the link & hearing her sing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyD5fCmLjnE

May all into this garden come

Where spices yield a rich perfume

The lilies grow & thrive

The lilies grow & thrive

Refreshing showers of grace divine

a single drop drunk from the vine

Will make the dead revive

Will make the dead revive

Oh that this dry & barren ground

With springs of water would abound

A fruitful soil become

A fruitful soil become

The desert blossom as the rose

And love will conquer all its foes

And rain with healing down

And rain with healing down

Come brothers rest among these roots

And taste the sweetness of the fruit

Eternal life go on

Eternal life go on

Our troubles & our trials here

Will only make us richer there

When we arrive at home

When we arrive at home

There is nothing objectionable in this "vaguely spiritual" ("spiritual" is the word currently used, by people who like/believe in the concepts but don't feel/believe the bindings, for ideas that otherwise are bound to particular religions) rewrite *unless* you know the original song & object to the eviction of the L-rd from the 1st verse, Jesus from the 1st verse, Jesus from the 2nd verse, the L-rd from the 3rd verse & Jesus from the 3rd verse.  Urk.

I was going to write a whole longer thing after typing that in but I guess not right now.

But I'd like to reflect back on the song as we know it in the book; every version I've ever heard, including Smiley's, keeps the "troubles & trials" verse.  But at least in the Hervey text from "Meditations Among the Tombs"

https://books.google.com/books?id=tsM9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA143&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false,

its not the original 2nd (or 3rd, depending on the version) verse, its the 5th.  Now, there may be some Ur-text no-one's provided yet where it *is* the 2nd or 3rd verse.  But I prefer to think, unless shown otherwise, that people know a great verse when they hear it.  However far down in the verses it originally was.

Boy, did I want to be at the singing I wasn't at today.

[Steve Nickolas]

On Sun, 6 Mar 2016, j frankel wrote:

> I got lazy when typing out that long screed, so in case anyone wants to see
> what I object to in Moira Smiley's rewrite of Garden Hymn, as opposed to
> clicking the link & hearing her sing it:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyD5fCmLjnE
>
> May all into this garden come
> Where spices yield a rich perfume
> The lilies grow & thrive
> The lilies grow & thrive
> Refreshing showers of grace divine
> a single drop drunk from the vine
> Will make the dead revive
> Will make the dead revive

...oh geez...

A few days ago you guys, as I think I might have mentioned, inspired me to
do my own harmonization of the tune. I admit I made some tweaks to the
lyrics, but *oy*, that sounds like a politically correct mangling that
does all sorts of damage to the song, as opposed to just slight
paraphrasing mostly to smooth it out a bit.

(Remainder of post is slightly OT)

The specific words I worked from came from a scan on hymnary.org. The
lyrical result is this: http://3.buric.co/garden.htm

(The left side is the original, 1801, text I started from and the right
side is what I put into MuseScore.)

My version sounds like this: http://3.buric.co/garden.ogg

And here's how I laid it out: http://3.buric.co/garden.pdf

I understand some people might not agree with even THIS - it's certainly
not *exactly* what came out of Southern Harmony. I've seen another SATB
arrangement, and I think this is better, it keeps the original melody and
rhythm, which I said I liked because it was "dancey" (and someone pointed
out it might have been an old fiddle tune). It's a beautiful tune and I
wanted to do it justice with an SATB arrangement, my limitations as a
composer notwithstanding.

By the way - I set up MuseScore to play the tune, pitched back up to
F-major, with 4 voices, piano, and a pair of violins - it worked pretty
well like that :)

-uso.

[plu...@gmail.com]

I'm not a fan of turning good old hymns into pablum. I attended a Christmas Eve service at a local Lutheran church and was thrilled to sing 'O Come O Come Emmanuel.' Until we got to the last line. Instead of "shall come to thee, O Israel," the text read "shall come to us, all gathered here." These hymns are the historical language of Christianity and in my mind should be respected as such. But as Matt Hinton said in a class at Camp Fasola a few years ago, " a lot of folks don't like anything 'supernatural or gory' in their religion.

Sent from my iPad

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[Steve Nickolas]

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016, plu...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm not a fan of turning good old hymns into pablum. I attended a
> Christmas Eve service at a local Lutheran church and was thrilled to
> sing 'O Come O Come Emmanuel.' Until we got to the last line. Instead of
> "shall come to thee, O Israel," the text read "shall come to us, all
> gathered here." These hymns are the historical language of Christianity
> and in my mind should be respected as such. But as Matt Hinton said in a
> class at Camp Fasola a few years ago, " a lot of folks don't like
> anything 'supernatural or gory' in their religion.

Yeesh! That also ruins the versification.

These texts are what they are. I sometimes smooth out the lyrics a bit,
or drop a stanza here and there, but I'm not about to wreck a text to
demythologize or whatever (well, if it's an LDS hymn I want to take into a
general Christian context, or whatever, I might do something like that...
of course openly admitting that I have done so, not crediting an alterer
being imo a stupid thing to do)

-uso.

[Wade Kotter]

Steve et al:

I've examined 132 printed versions of this text dating from 1801 to 1835. One thing that has caught my attention is that editors/compilers struggled with how to handle the grammatically "interesting" first line. There are at least four variations:

The Lord into his garden comes [by far the most common]

The Lord's into his garden come [the next most common] (The Lord has/is into his garden come)

The Lord into his garden's come [the next most common] (that is, The Lord into his garden has/is come)

The Lord into his garden came [the least common]

I thinks this anonymous hymn was influenced by Watts' Hymn LXXIV, Book I, titled "The Church the garden of Christ":

https://archive.org/stream/spiritualso00watt#page/46/mode/2up

Look especially at verse 6.

Wade

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

"Make a Joyful Noise Unto the Lord"

---

From: Steve Nickolas <usot...@buric.co>
To: plu...@gmail.com
Cc: ghos...@gmail.com; Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2016 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[j frankel]

Someone else on the internet also thought the Watts Hymn was a source, but I'm not finding my link to them.  Oh well.  I'm happy to see the Song of Solomon reference.  (The more strictly Christian theology there is in a hymn text, the farther it is from the Old Testament source, if there is one; Watts generally doesn't do as much of a rewrite of a psalm or,in this case, section of Song of Solomon as other Christian hymn writers do.) The concept of making "the desert blossom as the rose" comes up in more than one Old Testament place; sounds familiar to me.

Since you have the text going back to 1801 this probably means Hervey didn't write it (I haven't yet researched his life span).  The mudcat café poster thought he might have written it because all the hymns in his collection "Meditations Among the Tombs" have no author credited.

[Steve Nickolas]

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016, j frankel wrote:

> Someone else on the internet also thought the Watts Hymn was a source, but
> I'm not finding my link to them. Oh well. I'm happy to see the Song of
> Solomon reference. (The more strictly Christian theology there is in a
> hymn text, the farther it is from the Old Testament source, if there is
> one; Watts generally doesn't do as much of a rewrite of a psalm or,in this
> case, section of Song of Solomon as other Christian hymn writers do.) The
> concept of making "the desert blossom as the rose" comes up in more than
> one Old Testament place; sounds familiar to me.

If you want a blatant Song of Solomon reference you have "O thou in whose
presence my soul takes delight".

While my Methodist hymnals don't provide a scripture reference as they
usually do, I gave one - Song 1.7 - and there's a longer version on
hymnary.org under the title "His voice as the sound of the dulcimer sweet"
which far more blatantly references Song of Solomon.

> Since you have the text going back to 1801 this probably means Hervey
> didn't write it (I haven't yet researched his life span). The mudcat café
> poster thought he might have written it because all the hymns in his
> collection "Meditations Among the Tombs" have no author credited.

We do have a source on hymnary.org from 1801, which is the earliest source
I am aware of.

-uso.

[Wade Kotter]

"O Thou in whose presence my soul takes delight" is an extract from a longer hymn text by Joseph Swain, which he definitely based on "Solomon's Song:"

https://archive.org/stream/experimentalessa00swai#page/8/mode/2up

Notice that "His voice, as the sound of the dulcimer sweet" is the first line of the fourth stanza as originally printed by Swain. Most printings in America divided Swain's text into four line stanzas and never, to my knowledge, printed Swain's complete text. I have examined 139 American printings of this text from 1803 to 1835.

Wade

 

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

"Make a Joyful Noise Unto the Lord"

---

From: Steve Nickolas <usot...@buric.co>

To: j frankel <ghos...@gmail.com>
Cc: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2016 4:58 AM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[Wade Kotter]

Here is the printing of this text that may (see below) date to 1801:

https://archive.org/stream/christiansdutyex1801chur#page/20/mode/2up

As I mentioned when I first brought this to the attention of this group a few years ago, I find a collection by the "Fraternity of Baptists" to be a rather odd place for the first publication of this text. Since that time, I've become somewhat more doubtful of the 1801 date for this printing:

1) This text appears in a undated section titled "Select Spiritual Songs" which is tacked on to the very end of "The Christian's Duty" after the last page with FINIS at the bottom:

https://archive.org/stream/christiansdutyex1801chur#page/n365/mode/2up

I've seen enough examples of collections reprinted with undated but clearly later appendices to suspect that this might be the case in this situation. In other words, the section of "Select Spiritual Songs" may well post-date 1801.

2) The text in "The Christian's Duty" has only nine verses; all the other early printings I've seen (starting in 1803) have ten verses. I suspect but cannot prove that the ten verse version is the original, and that it probably first circulated as a broadside.

Wade

 

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

"Make a Joyful Noise Unto the Lord"

---

From: Steve Nickolas <usot...@buric.co>
To: j frankel <ghos...@gmail.com>
Cc: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2016 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[j frankel]

Oh I know;  "Samanthra".  Directly from SoS.  But its not in SH.  It *is* in other shape-note books, but I learned it at the Lees' Lloyd's Hymnal singings.

[Wade Kotter]

SAMANTHRA, which is a great tune, is not the only tune to which this text was sung. The very closely related tunes DAVIS and NEW-SALEM are printed with this text in the The Missouri Harmony:

https://archive.org/stream/missouriharmonyo00card_0#page/35/mode/1up

https://archive.org/stream/missouriharmonyo00card_0#page/65/mode/1up 

DAVIS later become known under two different names, BELOVED or DULCIMER.

PENITENCE by Raymond Hamrick (571 in the 1991 ed.) also uses a couple of verses (slightly altered) from this text.

Wade

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

"Make a Joyful Noise Unto the Lord"

---

From: j frankel <ghos...@gmail.com>
To: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2016 9:39 AM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[Steve Nickolas]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2016, 'Wade Kotter' via Fasola Discussions wrote:

> SAMANTHRA, which is a great tune, is not the only tune to which this text was sung. The very closely related tunes DAVIS and NEW-SALEM are printed with this text in the The Missouri Harmony:
> https://archive.org/stream/missouriharmonyo00card_0#page/35/mode/1up
>
> https://archive.org/stream/missouriharmonyo00card_0#page/65/mode/1up 
> DAVIS later become known under two different names, BELOVED or DULCIMER.
> PENITENCE by Raymond Hamrick (571 in the 1991 ed.) also uses a couple of verses (slightly altered) from this text.
> Wade

DAVIS is the tune associated with these lyrics in my hymnals.

The LDS rewrite, "Redeemer of Israel", also uses DAVIS, at least in their
1985 hymnal.

-uso.

[Wade Kotter]

Yes, the tune for "Redeemer of Israel" in our latest LDS hymnal is a version of DAVIS, although the tune name is given as DULCIMER in the "Tune Names" index. Interestingly, the first official LDS hymnal, dating to 1889, also uses the same tune for this text, although in this case the tune name is given as NEW-SALEM:

https://archive.org/stream/latterdaysaintsp1889chur#page/319/mode/1up

Wade

 

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

"Make a Joyful Noise Unto the Lord"

---

From: Steve Nickolas <usot...@buric.co>
To: wadek...@yahoo.com
Cc: "ghos...@gmail.com" <ghos...@gmail.com>; Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2016 12:41 PM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[Tim Cook]

Greetings singers,

 

I meant to reply earlier to the question about Garden Hymn in Asia. Sorry for the delay. I only know about Japan as I did a bit of legwork on this song a few years ago and I posted it I think in fasola-singings.

 

Garden Hymn is the origin of an early 20th-century Japanese song that was once standard fare for music classes in schools all across Japan. Older people in Japan today still know it, although they don’t know it as Garden Hymn. A late 19th-century version of the song ended up as “When We Arrive At Home” in something called the Franklin Square Song Collection, No. 5, which the U.S. Archives has at

https://ia601406.us.archive.org/1/items/franklinsquares02mccagoog/franklinsquares02mccagoog.pdf

See p. 75 of the document, which is p. 68 of the book. The music is further away from Garden Hymn than Amazing Grace is from New Britain, but the page duly notes “Garden”, Jeremiah Ingalls. The song everyone in Japan used to know memorializes a boating accident in which 12 teenage boys died near Kamakura in 1910. They were all students in a boy’s school and the music teacher in the school took the Franklin Square song and wrote Japanese words in memory of the dead boys. The song was sung by the chorus of the school’s sister girl’s school at the boys’ huge outdoor memorial service a month later and it remained popular until recent times. Here’s a Japanese professional choral group singing it:

https://youtu.be/pl_2uVnnuvY

Most Japanese that know the song don’t even realize that it’s not originally a Japanese song. It’s one of my favorites to teach Japanese people.

 

Thought you’d be interested.

 

Tim Cook

--

[j frankel]

Wow!  Thank you.

[Will Fitzgerald]

Thanks for this information, Tim!

I work for the Internet Archive, and here’s a direct link to the page containing “When We Arrive At Home":

https://archive.org/stream/franklinsquares02mccagoog?ui=embed#page/n74/mode/1up

—

Will

[Wade Kotter]

Many thanks also to Tim for this fascinating information; and thanks, Will, for posting the link. Some people on the list might be wondering about the attribution "'Garden,' Jeremiah Ingalls" in the Franklin Square collection. This is a reference to the tune LOVE DIVINE, published by Ingalls in his Christian Harmony of 1805. Ingalls interlined a different text with the music, but provided the Garden Hymn text as alternative words.You can hear three different recordings of LOVE DIVINE here: http://www.entish.org/ch/ [scroll down to number 45] (and thanks to Will and Tom Malone for making these recordings available). The jury is out on whether Ingalls composed the tune or arranged an existing tune (I tend towards the latter conclusion).

This tune is clearly related to SPRINGHILL, printed with the Garden Hymn text by John Wyeth in his Repository of Sacred Music Part Second in 1814, and BALTIMORE, printed with a different set of words by Annanias Davisson in the 1826 3rd edition of his Supplement to the Kentucky Harmony. All of these, especially BALTIMORE, are clearly related to GARDEN HYMN as it appeared in The Southern Harmony in 1835 and later in The Sacred Harp and Hauser's Hesperian Harp. Here are scans of some of these:

BALTIMORE (transcription from Supplement to the Kentucky Harmony): http://www.shapenote.net/berkley/053%20Baltimore.pdf

GARDEN HYMN (scan from 1854 ed. of the Southern Harmony): http://www.ccel.org/ccel/walker/harmony/files/gif/Garden_Hymn/710.html

GARDEN HYMN (Hesperian Harmony, 1848) : http://www.shapenote.net/berkley/357.jpg

SPRING HILL (Hesperian Harmony, 1848): http://www.shapenote.net/berkley/356.jpg

The version found in the Franklin Square collection, however, is more closely related to the version printed by Joshua Leavitt in his Christian Lyre, 1830, which was pretty clearly derived from Ingalls' LOVE DIVINE:

https://archive.org/stream/christianlyre00leav#page/46/mode/2up

Two other pre-1850 versions that seem to reflect this variant are:

http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015070617009?urlappend=%3Bseq=76 (Ferrer, The Christian Melodist, 1828)

https://archive.org/stream/americanvocalist00mans#page/322/mode/1up (Mansfield, The American Vocalist, 1849)

Wade

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

"Make a Joyful Noise Unto the Lord"

---

From: Will Fitzgerald <will.fi...@gmail.com>
To: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: coo...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[Wade Kotter]

The correct date for Wyeth's Repository Part Second is 1813, not 1814. Mea culpa. Also, Ingall's LOVE DIVINE is in 6/8, like the versions printed by Leavitt, Farrer, Mansfield, and the Franklin Square collection. To my ear it is much more dance-like (an attribute that pleases me, I must admit) than the versions from The Southern Harmony and The Sacred Harp.

Wade

 

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

"Make a Joyful Noise Unto the Lord"

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From: 'Wade Kotter' via Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
To: "will.fi...@gmail.com" <will.fi...@gmail.com>; Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "coo...@gmail.com" <coo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 9:47 AM

[Wade Kotter]

Yes, Robert, there are certainly good reasons to "doubt" my doubts. However, I have a copy of the 1791 first edition and the main section of the second edition does show differences, including additions, deletions and revisions, that, to me, are more likely to account for the "2nd edition, improved" notice on the 1801 title than the "Select Spiritual Songs" section that was tacked on at the end. The ownership date of 1815 (although I see the faint impression of what might be an earlier ownership inscription on the inside of the front cover) is interesting since a "Third Edition, improved" of The Christians' Duty was published in 1813:

https://archive.org/details/dutyex00chur. 

The copy of the third edition at archive.org does not include the "Select Spiritual Songs" section but instead is bound with the stated First Edition of A Selection of Hymns, from Various Authors, Supplementary  for the Use of Christians, dated 1816! The Garden Hymn is Hymn CXI on p. 96 of this "Selection":

https://archive.org/stream/dutyex00chur#page/96/mode/2up.

This "Selection" was also printed separately:

https://archive.org/details/selectionofhymns00chur.

I get the impression that the "Select Spiritual Songs" section bound with the 1801 2nd edition was sort of a prelude to the 1816 "Selection." Still, none of this, of course, proves that the "Select Spiritual Songs" section doesn't date to 1801. If it was printed in 1801, someone quickly added the 10th verse that is found in the next earliest printings dating to 1803 and in most other printings from that time forward.

Wade

 

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

"Make a Joyful Noise Unto the Lord"

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From: Robert Vaughn <rl_v...@yahoo.com>
To: "wadek...@yahoo.com" <wadek...@yahoo.com>; "usot...@buric.co" <usot...@buric.co>; j frankel <ghos...@gmail.com>
Cc: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 11:24 AM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

Wade,

It seems clear that the back in The Christians Duty was added later than the original edition of the book -- it starts after "Finis" and has its own index. While the printing of the Select Spiritual Songs in the book may post-date 1801, the fact that the Preface is dated 1791 and the book on Archives.org is a "second edition, improved" could also suggest that the back section was indeed added in 1801. There's probably no way to ever know, unless we found an 1801 dated printing without the Select Spiritual Songs. Too bad Lucy Wilson didn't buy it in 1801 instead of 1815!

 

Robert Vaughn 

Mount Enterprise, TX

http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com 

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way

http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com 

For ask now of the days that are past...

http://oldredland.blogspot.com 

Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.

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From: 'Wade Kotter' via Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>

To: "usot...@buric.co" <usot...@buric.co>; j frankel <ghos...@gmail.com>
Cc: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2016 10:54 AM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[Robert Vaughn]

Wade,

It seems clear that the back in The Christians Duty was added later than the original edition of the book -- it starts after "Finis" and has its own index. While the printing of the Select Spiritual Songs in the book may post-date 1801, the fact that the Preface is dated 1791 and the book on Archives.org is a "second edition, improved" could also suggest that the back section was indeed added in 1801. There's probably no way to ever know, unless we found an 1801 dated printing without the Select Spiritual Songs. Too bad Lucy Wilson didn't buy it in 1801 instead of 1815!

 

Robert Vaughn 

Mount Enterprise, TX

http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com 

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way

http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com 

For ask now of the days that are past...

http://oldredland.blogspot.com 

Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.

---

From: 'Wade Kotter' via Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>

To: "usot...@buric.co" <usot...@buric.co>; j frankel <ghos...@gmail.com>
Cc: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2016 10:54 AM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[Will Fitzgerald]

A warning to readers: Robert meant Archive.org 

The link to “Archives”.org leads to a bad phishing site. 

—

Will

[Robert Vaughn]

I saw that also, but couldn't decide if it was indeed a date or not.

 

Robert V

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From: 'Wade Kotter' via Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>

...The ownership date of 1815 (although I see the faint impression of what might be an earlier ownership inscription on the inside of the front cover)...

[Robert Vaughn]

Thanks, Will. Sorry for the typo, all. I initially just typed "Archives" and then went back and added ".org" intending to be a little clearer and thus made a bad mistake. I hope no one got fished. (I also edited that out of this e-mail so as to not keep perpetuating it.)

 

Sincerely,

Robert Vaughn 

Mount Enterprise, TX

http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com 

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way

http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com 

For ask now of the days that are past...

http://oldredland.blogspot.com 

Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.

---

From: Will Fitzgerald <will.fi...@gmail.com>
To: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics

[Wade Kotter]

I've done a little more exploration using an enlarged image and am convinced that the inscription on the inside of the front cover includes a name (Jane Welch?), but no date.

 

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

"Make a Joyful Noise Unto the Lord"

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From: Robert Vaughn <rl_v...@yahoo.com>
To: "wadek...@yahoo.com" <wadek...@yahoo.com>

Cc: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 1:45 PM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Some more on the Garden Hymn lyrics