Conducting

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jordand...@gmail.com

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May 20, 2022, 1:48:06 AM5/20/22
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I have been teaching my congregation the ways of Sacred Harp singing and we currently sing several tunes during which folks are encouraged to conduct along to help everyone stay in sync. The songs that are in 2 end up with the "hatchet chop" conducting gesture and I get wry smiles from many people who grew up seeing the FSU Seminoles' tomahawk chop chant. How do y'all direct discussions about this obvious similarity? What sorts of things should I say to encourage folks and distance the Sacred Harp tradition from the FSU football tradition? 

Thank you!

Jordan
Chief Musician, Cornerstone Reformed Church (Carbondale)


Karen Willard

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May 20, 2022, 10:51:47 AM5/20/22
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The unkind response to your congregants would be to exclaim “you’re doing it all wrong!”

Gracefully beating in two for 2/2 songs is one of the more difficult time beating patterns. But 2/4 and 4/4 isn’t so easy either.

Something I find helpful is to remember that in Sacred Harp 2/2 or 2/4 beat one begins as the hand starts to descend and ends when the hand reaches the bottom of the stroke. Beat two begins as the hand starts to ascend, that is, in the middle of the measure, and ends at the top. (In 4/4 songs beat two starts halfway down and beat four ends at the top).

I also tell myself that the goal is no sudden start and stop. Rather the descent and rise of the hand is entirely smooth.

Those who chop find a need to pause their hand at the bottom until it’s time to move again. 

In our book, the tempo of 2/2 is about 3 seconds per measure and 2/4 pretty brisk at about 1 1/2 seconds. 4/4 is about 2 1/2 seconds. These are not metronome tempos, as there is considerable regional difference, but the relative tempos of the three should be maintained, i.e. 2/4 is quicker than 4/4 which is quicker than 2/2.

—Karen Willard

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Warren Steel

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May 20, 2022, 11:06:38 AM5/20/22
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Jordan writes:
>>>>I have been teaching my congregation the ways of Sacred Harp singing and we currently sing several tunes during which folks are encouraged to conduct along to help everyone stay in sync. The songs that are in 2 end up with the "hatchet chop" conducting gesture and I get wry smiles from many people who grew up seeing the FSU Seminoles' tomahawk chop chant. How do y'all direct discussions about this obvious similarity? What sorts of things should I say to encourage folks and distance the Sacred Harp tradition from the FSU football tradition?

First of all, there is no such thing as "conducting" in Sacred Harp singing, only "keeping time" or "beating time" with the hand. "Beating" should not be considered as forceful, but more like the beating of a pendulum, a smooth motion which never stops except to change direction.
Second, there is no place for sudden or jerky movement or anything resembling a "tomahawk chop," only gentle motion: downward in the first part of a measure, upward during the second part (half or third of the measure, depending on the mood of time). The purpose is not to point at the ictus or beat, the way a conductor does, but to indicate which part of the measure we're in.
This is true for the leader, but even more true for those following the leader, who may keep time during the singing. Doing so, the front row tenors may help the altos, who may not be able to see the leaders hands well. Keeping time with the hands may indeed help the singers stay together. In any case, the motions should be smooth and modest.
I hope these suggestions will prove useful in your choir, and that you and some of your choristers may be able to attend Sacred Harp singings in Illinois, Missouri or Kentucky.
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Warren Steel                              mu...@olemiss.edu
Professor of Music Emeritus      University of Mississippi
              http://home.olemiss.edu/~mudws/




Jordan Doolittle

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May 20, 2022, 5:42:03 PM5/20/22
to Warren Steel, Fasola Discussions
Very insightful! Thank you!!!

Elliott, Marla

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May 20, 2022, 5:42:03 PM5/20/22
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When my students beat a two-beat measure too forcefully, it's often because they are trying to cover too much space--180 degrees (or more!) from top to bottom. If they don't go down too far, they don't have to rush to come back up. 90 degrees or even less is usually plenty.
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Jordan Doolittle

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May 20, 2022, 5:42:03 PM5/20/22
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This is helpful! Thank you!!!

Jordan Doolittle

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May 24, 2022, 2:16:17 PM5/24/22
to David Olson, Fasola Discussions
David,

Bold! Actually, it’s pretty spot-on with how things roll here at my church. There is a saying about how can one be moved by music without moving TO music. Music often demands a physical response. Here the robust fuguing tunes we sing during worship are so lively and rhythmic that the children in the congregation can’t help but stamp to the beat. I have trained most of them through updated Kodaly methods so it makes sense that they would respond to hearing music by moving appropriately to match what they hear. The rhythmic stamp and arm chop wouldn’t be appropriate for every song, like you said. 

Practically speaking, we sing many hymns a cappella in worship and having people keeping time with me as they sing really helps synchronize the congregation and keeps the tempo from dragging… mostly. 

Not trying to step on anyone’s toes here by the way! I’m not aiming to preserve a tradition but rather to apply what I can to this context and congregation. There is a need for both, I think. To conserve and to progress. 

Here are some snippets of us singing if anyone is curious. There aren’t any examples of stamping or keeping time in these clips and only about half the congregation showed up to the recording: https://www.cornerstonereformedcrec.org/cornerstone-sings

Thanks again, David, for the thought-provoking response!

Jordan




On May 20, 2022, at 6:55 PM, David Olson <da...@thirdculture.com> wrote:

Dear Carbondale Maestro & Other Singers who have taken control of their personal musical destinies,

I began singing fasola 2003 in Los Angeles, and by 2004 began to wonder about the appropriateness of the "Alabama Model" being applied without variation everywhere and anywhere. 

An utterly taboo topic, to raise this question... 

So I sat in the bass section singing, a missionary kid who learned hymns from adults trying to implant South Dakota-style rural church life in urban Japan, now singing with atheists having IQs of 145 and up trying to implant Alabama-type rural church singing in the world's capital city of narcissism, population 17 million. 

A source of humor perhaps, but every three years, fewer and fewer singers available to volunteer when time came for Los Angelesto host the All-California Convention at Angel's Gate. 

"The floggings will continue until morale improves" 

The phrase became tiresome when we all had to volunteer for at least two tasks, and we developed stronger frontalis muscles for lifting our eyebrows as we volunteered for three, the same phrase being given by way of explanation, the taboo continuing to this very day. 

 The "hatchet chop" might be a foe of the Alabama Model but an ally to the Carbondale Hollow Square. There must be at least one song in each tunebook that good-naturedly lends itself to being led in the manner to which tomahawkers are accustomed. 

    "When making a hatchet handle, the model is not far off."

in the transmission of pre-modern skill sets, the less teaching, the more osmosis, the better

The Alabama Model is useful as a point of reference, but if your singers glom onto something else, I think your choice is to become either a missionary of a foreign religion or a flexible tribal elder of I Belong To This Band Hallelujah. 

• maybe tomahawking is an asset by way of creating identity & in-jokes
• maybe begin limiting the damage
• " it works with this song, but not that one" 

The reference image for leading a song in fasola is not conducting a choir but driving a team of mules.

If your mules decide to speed up because they know they're almost home, what are you going to do?

David Olson

p.s. when high-IQ person repeats the same crude phrase year after year (we also need volunteers for the Regional) -- how can this not be an indicator that no real thought is going on? 


On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 10:48 PM jordand...@gmail.com <jordand...@gmail.com> wrote:

David Olson

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May 25, 2022, 5:52:00 AM5/25/22
to Jordan Doolittle, Fasola Discussions
Thanks for visual link. It was impossible for me to visualize the congregational setting -- my brain instantly substituted an image of a group within the congregation learning shape note, and taking turns leading songs. And when they took a turn, they would ignore what you had just told them, and go bananas with the chopping motion. 

Thanks to the videos I can visualize the worship setting...

I would address the children (adults will the follow; Isaiah 11:6) and say something like, "When you mark the time, imagine that you're welcoming Jesus into our church by waving a bouquet of flowers up and down" or some other mental image as an alternative to the tomahawk mental image. 

• waving a bouquet of flowers up and down in a rhythm that's happy but also steady and confident
• necessary?

Hope this helps,

David Olson
Los Angeles

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