Sacred Harp singing and hearing loss

[Will Fitzgerald]

According to the CDC (Centers for Disease Control) [1], it "becomes
dangerous to the human ear" to listen (for example) to sound measured
at 97 dB for more than 30 minutes. According to someone who brought a
decibel meter to the Midwest Convention, this was about the average
noise level from the second row.

Are we putting our hearing in danger at large conventions? Has anyone
looked into this carefully?

Will

--
[1] http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/abouthlp/noisemeter_flash/soundMeter_flash.html

[bob borcherding]

Actually, that was me, and the readings I got (from my little used,
uncalibrated meter) was averaging about 100-102 db, with peaks up to
107 dB. I had measured the Missouri Convention back when I bought
the meter (ca 1997) and measured 106 dB at that time, when it was
still in calibration, so I suspect that the readings that I got at
the Midwest were fairly accurate.

[Stephen Conte]

Dear Will and Singers,

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:05:44 -0500, Will Fitzgerald
<will.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> According to the CDC (Centers for Disease Control) [1], it "becomes
> dangerous to the human ear" to listen (for example) to sound measured
> at 97 dB for more than 30 minutes. According to someone who brought a
> decibel meter to the Midwest Convention, this was about the average
> noise level from the second row.
>
> Are we putting our hearing in danger at large conventions? Has anyone
> looked into this carefully?

This has been discussed before and is worth discussing again. The decibel
meter is a good idea if we want to move beyond anecdotal evidence. Not
that there's any lack of anecdotal evidence. The last online discussion
started, I believe, with someone's report of tinnitus. My daughter, who
loves to sing, had peculiar sounds and sensations for a full month after
last year's Camp Fasola. I had to leave a certain very well-known Southern
sing a number of years ago because the sound level was painful, and I have
not returned to that particular sing. 150 people singing as loud as they
can, in a small room... what is wrong with this picture?

Singing with FULL VOICE is not the same as singing at FULL VOLUME. I've
never been able to get an "Amen" to that point, but maybe some day.

Ever,
Stephen Conte

[Gabriel Kastelle]

"WHAT?"

no-- kidding--


But this is a genuinely weighty matter, and, Stephen & all:

Amen!


Yes, full thick rich voice can be humane, and not a sonic assault!

:-)


I do other musical stuff besides shape note singing, for which I have a decibel meter, and at a humble Pennsylvania convention of about a decade ago I've clocked pretty steady sound pressure of 95-105 dB, mostly hanging around 98-102 dB (?! partly carpeted room this once!!, but short ceiling height bouncing sound back).   For comparison, on the same meter, express Broad St. subway cruising through Temple / Cecil B. Moore station registers at 112 dB (!!), or 98 - 102 dB if it's slowing down for the next station.  Hunting Park station, I've seen at 114 dB (!!!).  Old-fashioned big metal bell striking school day times in Commodore Barry Elementary School basement masonry hallway, 102 dB.  A certain Lunch Time Assistant at the end of same hallway once filled the cafeteria all alone at 100 dB (often, really, but once that I measured!!).  Symphony orchestras on stage vary dramatically, but in generally loud stuff are much like big Sacred Harp sings, but with regular and sometimes even sustained areas of 105 - 108 dB....  perhaps these last numbers are somewhat approximate:  it's hard to see a part on stand, watch conductor, play violin, and notice a decibel meter, all at once!  But where I sometimes camp in front of the horns, and between piccolo and percussion, I believe it!  Out in the audience, at least in Philly Orchestra's past home in the Academy of Music, measuring from side parquet seats quite close to the stage, concert sound pressure was generally in the 70's - 80's dB range, with those louder spikes at only 92 dB.  Distance matters a lot, and we pack ourselves in at a shape note sing....  Now, then, how loud was that rock band I played in, for which I got the meter?  No recollection, nor do I find it written.  Why is that?  Amazing. 

I specify the "humble" Penna. sings / conventions of "a decade ago" because that's when I was there and measuring...  the Keystone state singing has gotten incredibly much better since I left, which I hope is just a coincidence of timing...  ;-)

-- Gabriel Kastelle --
New London, CT

[FaSueLa]

Because I have constant tinnitus and some signs of hearing loss, and
love to sing Sacred Harp, I just did a search about hearing protection
and found a plethora of products, most of which are for industrial
use. One which may be useful to us is from Ear Inc. (earinc.com)
called a hi-fi ear protector, especially for music. They say their
earplugs let you still hear the nuances of the music but protect your
hearing; they cost $15/pr. A few years ago i met someone who used
them, but I forgot the name of the company--she said they did the
job.

[Sheila Nugent]

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

It's not Led Zeppelin. :-)

According to ASHA (speech/hearing people), OSHA says protection is
required in the workplace when the time-weighted average over 8 hours
is greater than 85dB.

Bob, I wonder if your averages included readings between the songs?

Sheila
Alexandria, VA

p.s.

Conversation between two refridgerated rabbits the day after Easter:

"My butt hurts."

"What?"

[Bob Borcherding]

I believe that the time-weighted average would be greater than 85 dB,
since the space between songs wasn't very long and the sound level in-
between songs wasn't exactly quiet; and no I didn't take a sample of
the sound level in the room during the intervals. I wasn't really
preparing for a technical challenge, mostly I've been interested in
the sound levels because I've experienced some hearing issues, some
of which I attribute to singings.

[dadadharma @dslextreme.com]

I've experienced some hearing issues

Taize --

Before it starts -- beneath level of detection (> 50 dB)

Opening gong -- 51 dB

Irish harp -- 52-58 dB

Opening song (Taize #9)

"Bless the Lord, my soul" -- 64 through 78 dB.

Thereafter, never above 78 dB.

When the piano plays (gr-r-r-r-r)

never below 74 dB.

(They need a piano because the singer never wants to express vulnerability)

(Even though all the songs are about human vulnerability)

Closing gong -- 51 dB

Silence as people leave -- below LOD.

Has anybody ever made a shape - note version of any of the Taize songs?

They don't really have any bass or alto parts, do they?

How-many-tenors-can-fit-on-the-head-of-a-pin-ism.

David Olson

Culver City, CA

[dadadharma @dslextreme.com]

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 9:47 PM, bob borcherding <gap...@yahoo.com> wrote:

from my little used,
uncalibrated meter

 Little used, and then only in

The Little Brown Church In The Vale...

Are you referring to the $49 special at Radio Shack?

The readings seem rather high...

I always wonder what a sound engineer would say.

It is by little decibels our ears receive communion

(of an auditory nature).

At all-day singings, people sometimes bring family members who don't like Fasola, sometimes pointedly, but come for whatever reason.

Suppose, these relatives-in-tow have a kid, 

who dutifully sits in a corner 

playing a portable video game.

"Hey kid, have you ever seen a LOUDNESS meter before?"

"Do you want to come into the center of the Hollow Square with me and see how loud people are singing?"

(Who cares whether the meter is calibrated....)

(Just put it in his hands, help him figure out how it works.)

That kid will now have a memory 

of what it's like to stand in the middle of the hollow square.

And, if you chose Old Hundredth as the lesson,

he might even associate "loud anthems let us sing"

with that memory.

"from my little used, uncalibrated meter"

Little used, but purposefully used,

David Olson

Culver City, CA

(no longer singing in stairwells, but in a parish hall)

(<www.hosorembo.com> for details)

[Ian Quinn]

A fellow-singer in the Berkeley group recommends musicians' earplugs,
which are designed for people like us – people who want to hear
clearly, but who just need to turn the volume down a bit. They're a
bit like reverse hearing aids – they damp sound incoming sound to a
safe level while preserving sonic quality. My friend has a set of
earplugs made by Etymotic Research (www.etymotic.com), which are
custom-molded and somewhat pricey, but pre-molded musicians' earplugs
can be found for reasonable prices from a number of manufacturers. A
google search for "musicians earplugs" turns up plenty of results.

Best,
Ian