Primitive Hymns - Lloyd Hymnal
Don Wiley
weekend, and I am filled with newbie enthusiasm. I looked briefly to
see if there were a discussion group, but did not find one.
Would anyone be interested in joining such a thing? Is there anything
to discuss? Just asking.
Joe Dan Boyd
http://alabamafolklife.org/AFApublication.htm#lloyd
Joe Dan Boyd Communications 5107 N. FM 312 Winnsboro TX 75494 903-375-4603 office 903-850-4394 cell 903-629-3408 home personal website www.joedanboyd.com follow Joe Dan on Twitter http://twitter.com/joedanboyd church weblog www.tinneychapeltoday.blogspot.com
Don Wiley wrote:
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Wade Kotter
Since many Sacred Harp singers also sing from Lloyd's Primitive Hymns, I think it's an appropriate topic for this group. Instead of creating another discussion group, why not post any questions you have to this list? I'm pretty sure you'll get responses and I doubt anyone would complain that the discussion is too far off topic. But if complaints do arise or if the moderator steps in, then maybe it would be time to start a separate discussion group.
Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT
Robert Richmond
at Camp DoReMi last week. Kathleen and I were housed in the room next
to the singing area, but they sang at 0700 in the morning without
coffee, so we didn't join in! A much quieter sound than harp singing.
I do have a question - Primitive Baptists are a very closed tradition.
How do they feel about having their music sung outside their church by
people who come from very different religious backgrounds?
Bob Richmond
New Harp of Columbia treble
Knoxville TN
**************************************************************
Robert Vaughn
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com/
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
--- On Thu, 8/13/09, Don Wiley <drw...@embarqmail.com> wrote:
Wade Kotter
We sang from Primitive Hymns at 7 am every morning at the adult session of Camp Fasola this year. It was a wonderful experience. Some of the people who participated had obviously been singing from Primitive Hymns all their lives. I can't say for sure if they are, or were at one time, Primitive Baptists, but this Mormon from Utah didn't feel any negative vibrations. In fact, the vibrations were entirely positive. Also, when I attended the Hopewell Memorial singing in June, I had a very pleasant conversation with one of the organizers, whose name I cannot remember, who is a Primitive Baptist preacher. Thus, from my experience, our mutual love for sacred music, including both the Sacred Harp and Primitive Hymns, outweighs our differing religious traditions.
Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT
amity
songbooks, as well as a lot of overlap in practice between Sacred Harp
singings and Primitive Baptist church practice, I think these are just
"cultural."
There are a lot of important doctrinal discrepancies between many of the
songs in the Sacred Harp and PB beliefs, which really stand out for one
thing . Also there are important divergences in practice (women leading
would be an issue for example). I think it is easy to focus on the
similarities and not realize that these similarities were common to most
"rural Southern Protestant" churches during the 19th century, and so
probably not specifically Primritive Baptist in origins?
Terre Schill
Stephen Conte
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:46:51 -0500, Robert Richmond <rsric...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I do have a question - Primitive Baptists are a very closed tradition.
> How do they feel about having their music sung outside their church by
> people who come from very different religious backgrounds?
I can't imagine a problem, certainly not if the singing was outside the
church. More likely they would offer to help you learn and sing the hymns.
Some Primitive Baptists might be a little puzzled as to why anyone outside
the tradition would WISH to sing these songs, but our doctrine provides an
answer as it informs us that God's sovereign grace is not confined to any
particular tradition or culture. Without reading too much into anyone's
interest in the Lloyd book, I think most of our people would take it as a
hopeful sign that the person has been visited by God's grace. "For there
is no respect of persons with God." Romans 2:11
Be aware, however, that all Primitive Baptists do recognize a distinction
between the Sacred Harp and the church singing tradition. Some Sacred Harp
texts are not suitable for church use, either because of doctrine ("Lover
of the Lord", for example), or because the subject matter is unsuitable
(#422 Cooper Book "A Song of Texas", for example - no offense, Robert,
Terre, and all Texans). But try singing the tune of "A Song of Texas" with
the words of #680 from the Lloyd Book ("O Thou in Whose Presence My Soul
Takes Delight"), and you will have something wonderful. I think that type
of mix-and-match is part of the fascination of the Lloyd book for Sacred
Harp singers.
Ever,
Stephen Conte, Elder
Des Moines River Primitive Baptist Church
Est. 1841 near Eldon, Iowa
--
Proverbs 16.11 King James Bible "A just weight and balance are the LORD'S:
all the weights of the bag are his work."
Danny
this book ?
?
B.E. Swetman
The Sound of Dove: Singing in Appalachian Primitive Baptist Churches
(Music in American Life)
by Beverly Patterson. University of Illinois Press, 1995. There's a tape
that can be purchased separately.
http://www.press.uillinois.edu/books/catalog/39crc6de9780252070037.html
Barbara
Gene Pinion
http://books.google.com/books?id=MTfLKPG6i3AC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs
_ViewAPI#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Gene
Stephen Conte
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:24:49 -0500, Danny <d_mcc...@mac.com> wrote:
> Where can I hear a sample of this music and where can I find a copy of
> this book ?
There's a nice archive of six song services, online at
http://primitivebaptistsermons.org/hymns.php - the material is listed as
"Mars Hill Primitive Baptist Church".
Also, there is a CD that comes with the book mentioned yesterday by Joe
Dan Boyd http://alabamafolklife.org/AFApublication.htm#lloyd. It has a
good sampling of the several styles/traditions of Lloyd Hymnal singing.
The Lloyd Hymnal turns up on eBay fairly often, but the best way to get a
copy is simply to order it from:
The Primitive Hymns Corporation
P.O. Box 92
Rocky Mount, NC 27802-0092
The price is $12; if you send payment for the book, they will send it to
you with an invoice for shipping. Be aware that it may take a little while
to complete the order process.
Ever,
Stephen Conte
Stephen Conte
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:41:44 -0500, Stephen Conte
<child_o...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:24:49 -0500, Danny <d_mcc...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Where can I hear a sample of this music and where can I find a copy of
>> this book ?
Forgot to mention, you can hear a large mixed group of Sacred Harp singers
and church folks in the Mars Hill Saturday night archive at
http://www.pilgrimproduction.org/sacredharp/john%20lamb/hoboken.html
Ever,
Stephen Conte
Stephen Conte
<child_o...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
> order it from:
> The Primitive Hymns Corporation
> P.O. Box 92
> Rocky Mount, NC 27802-0092
> The price is $12
I am informed that the price has gone up to $12.75 plus S&H.
Ever,
Stephen Conte
Robert Vaughn
>
> Be aware, however, that all Primitive Baptists do recognize
> a distinction
> between the Sacred Harp and the church singing tradition.
> Some Sacred Harp
> texts are not suitable for church use, either because of
> doctrine ("Lover
> of the Lord", for example)
This might (or might not) bring up an interesting matter of discussion if handled carefully. The Sacred Harp is an eclectic enough compilation to have some songs that do not fit the theology of the various singers. While this song may not agree with the doctrine of one church, that one may not agree with the doctrine of a different church. Do we all to some extent "re-interpet" the more plain or obvious meaning of hymns that we sing in Sacred Harp? Or, if not, how does one handle the discrepancy of singing hymns that are at times at odds with his or her personal faith?
> or because the subject matter
> is unsuitable
> (#422 Cooper Book "A Song of Texas", for example - no
> offense, Robert,
> Terre, and all Texans).
I am deeply wounded that "A Song of Texas is not a favorite of every church member of every denomination, non-denomination and every Sacred Harp singer everywhere! But I guess since you're at least using the tune, all is forgiven.
Don Wiley
On Aug 13, 5:55 pm, "Stephen Conte" <child_of_gr...@iowatelecom.net>
wrote:
Robert Vaughn
> What does anyone think of singing 416 to the tune of
> Idumea?
>
I think it would be good, though I've not heard them together. Both tune and hymn are Short Meter. Idumea is a familiar "default" tune for Short Meter hymns here.
For those who don't have access to Lloyd #416:
Your harps, ye trembling saints,
Down from the willows take;
Loud to the praise of love divine
Bid every string awake.
Though in a foreign land
We are not far from home;
And nearer to our house above,
We every moment come.
His grace shall to the end,
Stronger and brighter shine;
Nor present things, nor things to come
Shall quench the spark divine.
Wait till the shadows flee,
Wait the appointed hour;
Wait till the bridegroom of thy soul
Reveal his love with power.
The time of love will come
When we shall clearly see,
Not only that He shed His blood,
But each shall say "for me".
(Cyber Hymnal says the hymn is by Toplady, though they don't have exactly the same verses)
Bill Hogan
I had a little experience with the Lloyd's book at Mt. Zion Church in Mobile, but I was hoping that there would be others joining us at Camp to help the effort.
I was very pleased that Tom Malone, Sandra Wilkinson and Michael Walker were there along with others and there was a large group of folks that wanted to learn about Lloyd's.
It was a joyous and serdipidous time and I am very thankful for all that attended.
Have a blessed weekend,
Bill Hogan
John Martin
verses of 416, written in 1996 by Glen Wright (author of 497 Natick in
the Sacred Harp). It's in The Norumbega Harmony: 239 "Ev'ry String
Awake."
--John Martin
> Ask for the old paths, where is the good way.http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com/
> For ask now of the days that are past...http://oldredland.blogspot.com/
Ted Johnson
| I love singing from Lloyd's Hymnal; I've always been made to feel very welcome. (And you can sort of seek your own harmonies with the others.) |
Robert Vaughn
> Some Sacred Harp
> texts are not suitable for church use...because the subject matter
> is unsuitable
> (#422 Cooper Book "A Song of Texas", for example - no
> offense, Robert,
> Terre, and all Texans).
This has reminded me that several years ago I made a copy of "A Song of Texas" in which I tried to "christen" it. I went back and looked up the words of my added verse:
Away here in Texas, dear Lord bless us, please,
The days of our lives Thine to be;
And down to the ground let us fall on our knees,
And bow down our hearts now to Thee.
(I wasn't trying to make it suitable for church use, just adding in a little religious element.)
Sincerely,
Robert Vaughn
Mt. Enterprise, Texas
Robert Vaughn
> wrote:
> > (#422 Cooper Book "A Song of Texas", for example
On this same subject, the following has probably been mentioned before; but I will mention it again just in case.
Warren Steel has collected 6 verses of this "Song of Texas" on his web site:
See http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~mudws/texts/Texas.txt
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX