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appeal for birth & death dates of some Christian Harmony, Social Harp, and Sacred Harp composers

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Rachel Hall

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Dec 31, 2012, 3:08:36 PM12/31/12
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Happy New Year, everyone!

We're about to send the Shenandoah Harmony off to the printers (!) and I thought I'd make a last-ditch appeal for help on identifying a few more composers.  I've already looked in the obvious place (Warren's book) for information, so I'm not expecting to get answers for all of these, but any would be appreciated.  As you can see, we're particularly in need of
-- info on William Walker's relatives
-- Social Harp composers
-- Cooper book composers (I imagine some of you can help with this one!)

thanks so much!

Rachel

William Golightly fl. 1830s related to William Walker
James W. Steffy fl. 1830s author of Valley Harmonist, 1836; copyright New Market VA
M.F. Bryan fl. 1840s author of RAPTUROUS SCENE in Christian Harmony
B.F. Davis fl. 1840s co-author of 60 DAY OF WORSHIP
C. Dingley fl. 1840s authored ALL IS WELL in American Vocalist
George Miller fl. 1840s compiler of Methodist Camp-Meeting Song Book; copyright Dayton OH
David Walker fl. 1840s brother of William Walker
J.W. Davis fl. 1850s contributor to Social Harp
William C. Davis fl. 1850s contributor to Social Harp
J.M. Day fl. 1850s author of 56 VILLULIA

Power fl. 1850s contributor to Social Harp
Daniel H. Smith fl. 1850s contributed OLIVE SHADE to Christian Harmony
J.M.C. Shaw fl. 1900-1920s contributor to Cooper book
Thomas J. Allen fl. 1900s contributor to Cooper book
R.B. Helms fl. 1900s contributor to Cooper book
P.T. Medley fl. 1900s contributor to Cooper book
Robert Wilson fl. 1920s contributor to Cooper book

invisibl...@gmail.com

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Dec 31, 2012, 4:34:47 PM12/31/12
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I have this bit on T.J. Allen from Robert Vaughn: 

"Thomas Jefferson Allen was born February 9 1853 in Fayette County, Georgia and died January 26, 1948 in Alabama. His daughter Maud/Maude Lee Allen was born 1888 or 1889 and died in 1965."

Matt Bell



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Wade Kotter

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Dec 31, 2012, 7:20:04 PM12/31/12
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Rachel:

A "William C. Davis," age 36, is listed in the 1860 census as living in "McCurry's District" of Hart County, GA:


He seems like a pretty good candidate for William C. Davis of the Social Harp. He would have been about 32 in 1855, only 3 or 4 years younger than McCurry. I haven't been able to locate a death date.

Also, I found a "James M. Day," age 34, listed in the 1850 census as living in Heard County, GA, not all that far north of Hamilton in Harris County.


Might be a possible candidate for J. M. Day.

Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT


From: Rachel Hall <rh...@sju.edu>
To: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 1:08 PM
Subject: [fasola-discussions] appeal for birth & death dates of some Christian Harmony, Social Harp, and Sacred Harp composers

Robert Vaughn

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Jan 1, 2013, 1:23:35 AM1/1/13
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Rachel--

This William Golightly you list below may be William Golightly of Spartanburg County, S.C., 1801--1877..."William Golightly also taught music and was at times associated with William Walker (A. S. H.), Henry White and Isaac Neighbors;" (from the History of Spartanburg County by J. B. O. Landrum, p. 61)

The David Walker who wrote THE FINEST FLOWER (Christian Harmony, Cooper Sacred Harp), I have listed as an uncle of William Walker (A. S. H.); the son of John and Margaret Walker. He was born 22 OCT 1787 in SC and died 19 SEP 1878 in Spartanburg County. He is buried at Hebron United Methodist Church Cemetery, Spartanburg County, SC.

Colonel Daniel H. Smith lived in Spartanburg County, South Carolina, and is mentioned on p. 282ff. of Landrum's book. According to genealogist Edward L. Gwinn, Daniel H. Smith was the son of Elijah Smith and Diana Ham, and he was born 13 Jun 1816 in Spartanburg Co, SC, and died 24 Oct 1898 in Spartanburg Co.

John Malcom Cruse Shaw was born circa 1860 and died in 1934. He was the son of John Shaw and Dora Parish. He married Mary Jane Daniels in 1891 in Pike County.

Porter Tillery Medley was born in 1881 and died in 1943. He married Minnie Lee Scarborough, composer of the alto on his song on p. 471 in the Cooper Book. They are buried at Bethel Primitive Baptist Church Cemetery in Barbour County, Alabama.

I don't have a Robert Wilson listed who contributed to the Cooper Book, but Reuben Guy Wilson contributed 528b and 549. Reuben Guy Wilson was born in 1858 and died in 1943. He and his wife Salley Shiver Wilson are buried at Goodwater Freewill Baptist Church Cemetery in Houston County, AL. His daughters Vera and Leila contributed to his songs, and Vera wrote WILSON (502 Cooper) and dedicated it to her father.

I noticed Matt Bell has already sent info on Thomas Jefferson Allen, and we've never identified exactly who R. B. Helms is, unless someone else has done so recently.

Hope this helps.
 
Happy New Year!
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 2:08 PM

Subject: [fasola-discussions] appeal for birth & death dates of some Christian Harmony, Social Harp, and Sacred Harp composers

Wade Kotter

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Jan 1, 2013, 2:57:55 PM1/1/13
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Rachel:

C. Dingley is almost certainly Charles Barker Dingley (1800-1868):


Notice in the notes at the bottom that "the family is in 1860 Census of NY, NY occ. 'printer.' Charles published several musical journals."

He's buried in New York City:


If anything, Dingley is at most the arranger but probably not the composer of "All is Well" as found in the American VocalistThe earliest attribution of the music to "C. Dingley" dates to 1842, but I have found versions dated prior to 1842, all without attribution. Although he was involved with several musical journals and compiled a few tune books, such as the Devotional Harmonist, ALL IS WELL is not found in any of them that I've seen and he didn't take credit for any of the tunes that he printed in any of his publications as far as I can determine. He may have published a version of ALL IS WELL, either in one of his tune books or one of his periodicals that I've haven't seen, or perhaps as a single piece of sheet music or as a broadside. Interestingly, he is credited as "printer" for some printings of Leavitt's Christian Lyre,  "typographer" for some printings of Thomas Hasting's Manhattan Collection, "musick typographer" for some printings of Evangelical Musick by Fleming and Hickok, and "music typographer" for The Young Choir, 1841, by William Bradbury and Charles Sanders. Interestingly, The Young Choir includes ALL IS WELL on pp. 84-85 but it is not attributed to Dingley even though it is very close to the version found in the American Vocalist:


Perhaps more later, but now it's time to head to our Cooper Book Singing and Social in Salt Lake City.

Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 1:08 PM

Subject: [fasola-discussions] appeal for birth & death dates of some Christian Harmony, Social Harp, and Sacred Harp composers

Rachel Hall

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Jan 1, 2013, 5:18:51 PM1/1/13
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Hi everyone - thanks for your swift and comprehensive replies!  Here's a summary of all the responses I got. I'll try the Christian Harmony folks to see if they know about MF Bryan.

best,

Rachel

William     Golightly     fl. 1830s     related to William Walker
from Robert:  This William Golightly you list below may be William Golightly of Spartanburg County, S.C., 1801--1877..."William Golightly also taught music and was at times associated with William Walker (A. S. H.), Henry White and Isaac Neighbors;" (from the History of Spartanburg County by J. B. O. Landrum, p. 61)
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=brendajoy13&id=I40848
http://books.google.com/books?id=D_MxAQAAMAAJ

James W.     Steffy     fl. 1830s     author of Valley Harmonist, 1836; copyright New Market VA
This should be John W.
from Harry:  In his tunebook, "The Valley Harmonist," Steffy lists his name only as J. W. Steffy.  In a letter to the editor in "Musical Million" in 1875 William E. Chute mentioned having received a biographical sketch from the compiler, "John W. Steffy of Ind., past 73" vol. VI (1875), p. 71.  Unfortunately, Chute's biographical sketch of Steffy has not been located. 
(Rachel) I've found a John W. Steffy in Young's "History of Wayne county, Indiana, from its first settlement to the present" (Google Books).  This John was alive in 1872 and had been a postmaster in the 1860s.  Maybe this is the same guy?


M.F.     Bryan     fl. 1840s     author of RAPTUROUS SCENE in Christian Harmony
- no further info


B.F.     Davis     fl. 1840s     co-author of 60 DAY OF WORSHIP
from Warren:  B.F. Davis was a relative of E.K. Davis of Cherokee Co. Alabama, who
contributed several tunes to the Hesperian Harp. He died about 1847, after
composing a poem about a sinner attending a ball--it's in the Hesperian Harp.


C.     Dingley     fl. 1840s     authored ALL IS WELL in American Vocalist
from Warren:  This is Charles Dingley of New York, compiler of the Devotional
Harmonist and other Methodist books. I don't believe he claimed credit for
ALL IS WELL, and I believe there are other printings, but Mansfield was
merely stating that he got the tune from Dingley's Devotional Harmonist.
Rachel: I'll just credit the song as Arr. Mansfield and leave Dingley out of it.


George     Miller     fl. 1840s     compiler of Methodist Camp-Meeting Song Book; copyright Dayton OH
from Warren:  My guess is Rev. George Miller (1806-1877), but Nikos may have more on
this.
Rachel: I know Nikos hasn't ID'd him.  I've found George Miller (1806-1877) but he's listed as "farmer" in the census.  Where is he listed as "rev?"


David     Walker     fl. 1840s     brother of William Walker
Robert:  The David Walker who wrote THE FINEST FLOWER (Christian Harmony, Cooper Sacred Harp), I have listed as an uncle of William Walker (A. S. H.); the son of John and Margaret Walker. He was born 22 OCT 1787 in SC and died 19 SEP 1878 in Spartanburg County. He is buried at Hebron United Methodist Church Cemetery, Spartanburg County, SC.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=8719765

J.W.     Davis     fl. 1850s     contributor to Social Harp
from Warren:  J.W. Davis contributed Ball Hill to the 1844 Sacred Harp, p. 118. He
served in the Muscogee Rifles, and Ball Hill is a campground in Muscogee
Co. This is a tune that McCurry borrowed from the Sacred Harp.


William C.     Davis     fl. 1850s     contributor to Social Harp
from Wade:  A "William C. Davis," age 36, is listed in the 1860 census as living in "McCurry's District" of Hart County, GA:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZM6-YD2
He seems like a pretty good candidate for William C. Davis of the Social Harp. He would have been about 32 in 1855, only 3 or 4 years younger than McCurry. I haven't been able to locate a death date.

J.M.     Day     fl. 1850s     author of 56 VILLULIA
from Wade:  Also, I found a "James M. Day," age 34, listed in the 1850 census as living in Heard County, GA, not all that far north of Hamilton in Harris County.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZYR-VDM
Might be a possible candidate for J. M. Day.

Power     fl. 1850s     contributor to Social Harp
Warren:  This is probably the same William Thomas Power (1817-ca. 1864), teacher of
vocal music, who contributed Royal Band to the Sacred Harp


Daniel H.     Smith     fl. 1850s     contributed OLIVE SHADE to Christian Harmony
from Robert: Colonel Daniel H. Smith lived in Spartanburg County, South Carolina, and is mentioned on p. 282ff. of Landrum's book. According to genealogist Edward L. Gwinn, Daniel H. Smith was the son of Elijah Smith and Diana Ham, and he was born 13 Jun 1816 in Spartanburg Co, SC, and died 24 Oct 1898 in Spartanburg Co.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=78080231

J.M.C.     Shaw     fl. 1900-1920s     contributor to Cooper book
From Karen:  J.M.C. Shaw = John Malcom Cruse, and according to the 1900 census he was born in May of 1860 in Alabama. 
Robert: John Malcom Cruse Shaw was born circa 1860 and died in 1934. He was the son of John Shaw and Dora Parish. He married Mary Jane Daniels in 1891 in Pike County.
Note: I (Rachel)found him in the census and also here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SHAW/2011-03/1299014187 His middle name is given as "Crews" in the genealogy forums.


Thomas J.     Allen     fl. 1900s     contributor to Cooper book
From Karen:  Thomas Jefferson Allen, born 9 Feb 1853 in Georgia and died 26 Jan 1948. He is buried at Shady Grove Baptist Church near Brundidge, Pike county, AL.

R.B.     Helms     fl. 1900s     contributor to Cooper book
- no further info


P.T.     Medley     fl. 1900s     contributor to Cooper book
Robert:  Porter Tillery Medley was born in 1881 and died in 1943. He married Minnie Lee Scarborough, composer of the alto on his song on p. 471 in the Cooper Book. They are buried at Bethel Primitive Baptist Church Cemetery in Barbour County, Alabama.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=76222751

Robert     Wilson     fl. 1920s     contributor to Cooper book
Rachel:  my mistake - should have been Reuben. 
From Karen:  Reuben Wilson was born 30 Aug 1858 in Alabama and died 24 June 1943 in Houston county, AL. He is buried at Goodwater Freewill Baptist Church, Wicksburg, Houston county, AL. He was the father of Vera Wilson (see 549; m. Richard Weekes) and Leila L. Wilson (see 528b; m. Cleveland Orlando Wilkinson), both of whom also contributed to the Cooper book.
Robert: Reuben Guy Wilson contributed 528b and 549. Reuben Guy Wilson was born in 1858 and died in 1943. He and his wife Salley Shiver Wilson are buried at Goodwater Freewill Baptist Church Cemetery in Houston County, AL. His daughters Vera and Leila contributed to his songs, and Vera wrote WILSON (502 Cooper) and dedicated it to her father.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=31621137

Wade Kotter

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Jan 1, 2013, 8:54:32 PM1/1/13
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Rachel:

It's been pointed out to me that the name on the census record I linked to for "J. M. Day" is John (not James) M. Day, and the middle initial might well be W. instead of M. on the actual census record.

Also, I agree with you and Warren that "Arr. Mansfield" is probably for ALL IS WELL, but ALL IS WELL is not in my copy of Dingley's Devotional Harmonist nor in the three editions available here unless I missed it:


Perhaps Mansfield got the Dingley attribution it from a book like this 1842 collection:


I've seen in it attributed to Dingley in several other northern revival collections from 1842 on.

Wade

Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2013 3:18 PM
Subject: [fasola-discussions] Re: appeal for birth & death dates of some Christian Harmony, Social Harp, and Sacred Harp composers

Clarissa Fetrow

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Jan 2, 2013, 2:40:53 AM1/2/13
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What an amazing and supportive community this is.

Clarissa




Robert Vaughn

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Jan 2, 2013, 6:43:30 PM1/2/13
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Rachel, I am going insert a couple of replies below within your text.
 
His glories sing,
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2013 4:18 PM

Subject: [fasola-discussions] Re: appeal for birth & death dates of some Christian Harmony, Social Harp, and Sacred Harp composers
David     Walker     fl. 1840s     brother of William Walker
Robert:  The David Walker who wrote THE FINEST FLOWER (Christian Harmony, Cooper Sacred Harp), I have listed as an uncle of William Walker (A. S. H.); the son of John and Margaret Walker. He was born 22 OCT 1787 in SC and died 19 SEP 1878 in Spartanburg County. He is buried at Hebron United Methodist Church Cemetery, Spartanburg County, SC.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=8719765

RLV: Warren pointed out that there is some reason to wonder whether this is the correct David Walker. I believe I have the correct biographical information on David Walker, the uncle of William Walker (A.S.H.). That said, I cannot confirm that he is the David Walker who wrote this song (or any other song). I myself did not determine that this David Walker is the songwriter. I think I got this from Robert Kelley or Harry Eskew, but I don't have anything at hand to be sure. Perhaps they will see this post with their names and respond if they know this to be the correct person (or not the correct person).

J.M.C.     Shaw     fl. 1900-1920s     contributor to Cooper book
From Karen:  J.M.C. Shaw = John Malcom Cruse, and according to the 1900 census he was born in May of 1860 in Alabama. 
Robert: John Malcom Cruse Shaw was born circa 1860 and died in 1934. He was the son of John Shaw and Dora Parish. He married Mary Jane Daniels in 1891 in Pike County.
Note: I (Rachel)found him in the census and also here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SHAW/2011-03/1299014187 His middle name is given as "Crews" in the genealogy forums.

RLV: Rachel, I also found that spelling, and do not know which is best/correct. I preferred the "Cruse" spelling to be consistent with what we used in the 2012 Cooper Sacred Harp.

R.B.     Helms     fl. 1900s     contributor to Cooper book
- no further info

RLV: I am still working on R.B. and W.A. Helms and if I find anything I will let you know. Last night I just found the first Helms with R. B. initials in the southeast Alabama area after looking for several years (Robert B. Helms of Pike County; I have no way to connect him to the song). My assumption is that his contribution to the Cooper Book means he probably lived in south Alabama, though not necessarily so.

Rachel Hall

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Jan 2, 2013, 9:11:51 PM1/2/13
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Thanks again, all!  I've noted that some of the ID's are tenuous.  I'll be working on a web site companion to the book in the coming months, so perhaps the more tentative dates can go there rather than in the printed book, and we can update them when more information becomes available. 

I have one more question: is S.W.Palmer, co-author of A SONG OF TEXAS, Shirley Watley Palmer?  http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~opus/p3414.htm  Seems like about the right dates and location.  Could he be related to the Rees/Reese brothers?

Also an update on MF Bryan.  I did find a family of Bryans in the 1860 census of Alexander County NC.  However there weren't any MF's listed.  The father, John G Bryan, is mentioned as a Baptist pastor here: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ncalextp/history/alex_history_1926[1].htm

best,

Rachel

Robert Vaughn

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Jan 3, 2013, 11:38:56 AM1/3/13
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Rachel,

I think you have found an excellent possibility for the co-author of A SONG OF TEXAS. He seems to be in the right place at the right time, plus evidently had an interest in coming to Texas. I found some confusion in looking at different genealogies of the Palmer family, but it looks like the Rees brothers and S. W. Palmer could have been 2nd cousins (depending on the accuracy of some genealogists and my interpretation of them) -- great grandsons of Ellis/Elias Palmer.

       Elias Palmer
Sarah Palmer Elisha Palmer
James Rees George Palmer
H.S. & J. P. Rees S. W. Palmer
 
This page has some further info about George and S. W., though the timeline on S. W. coming to Texas is wrong.

And the Rice Cemetery online says that S. W. was the son of George Palmer & Martha Watley (spelled "Whatley" in some places).

His glories sing,
Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 8:11 PM

Subject: [fasola-discussions] Re: appeal for birth & death dates of some Christian Harmony, Social Harp, and Sacred Harp composers

Rachel Hall

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Jan 3, 2013, 1:43:51 PM1/3/13
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Thanks!  Just noticed that in the James book it says

S. W. Palmer assisted H. S. Reese In composing the "Song of Texas." But little Is known of him, except that he was a member of the Southern Musical Convention. It is understood that Prof. H. S. Reese arranged the words of this hymn In 1850.

Anyone have a list of the members of the Southern Musical Convention of the day?  Would be interested to see if any of Shirley Watley Palmer's relatives are listed -- that might make the evidence stronger.

I think I'll put Shirley Watley's dates in our index, but flag them with a question mark indicating that the ID is uncertain. 

best,

Rachel

Robert Vaughn

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Jan 3, 2013, 6:49:34 PM1/3/13
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I glanced through J. S. James's A Brief History of the Sacred Harp and noticed Palmer mentioned as author of 422, but nothing else (but I could have easily missed it). There are no Palmers (or Burts) listed in the index of Kiri Miller's book on the Chattahoochee Convention. I did find this Palmer family in the Antioch Baptist Church of Taylor County, GA. S. W.'s parents were charter members in 1829:
 
With the Palmers settling in Navarro County, Texas, it might be possible that they could show up in the Central Texas Musical Convention minutes. A problem with that is that there are numerous pages missing and out of order. Also, they are held by a private individual who is in poor health, so it could be hard to schedule a visit anytime soon. But I might be able to check this some day in the future.

I don't have a lot of confidence in James's statement that "H. S. Reese arranged the words of this hymn in 1850." James provided us a service by preserving history, but he made numerous errors in identifying authors and composers. It is odd that H. S. Rees (unlike his brother, H.S. is buried under the spelling "Rees") would have written this. There is no evidence that he ever went to Texas, and this is written as if an enticement to get people to come west. I wonder about the wording as well -- "It is understood." Rees lived until 1922. James could have asked him, but he doesn't say that Rees said this, just "it is understood". And does he only mean by "Reese arranged the words" that someone else originally wrote the words and Rees arranged them more metrically to fit the tune?

Related, for those who are interested, though this diverges off topic,
Warren Steel has collated version of the poem here:
See here also, which indicates someone learned it (the words?) in Texas in the early 1850s:
And a letter mentions it here:

Fynnian Titford-Mock

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Jan 5, 2013, 5:57:58 AM1/5/13
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Just stumbled across an earlier source (than Collins' Timbrel of Zion 1853) for Sacred Harp 198 Green Street:

Greene Street, attributed to Rev. G. Coles (surely George Coles 1792-1858, composer of Duane Street), in Charles Dingley's Devotional Harmonist, 1849.
Link to the page in scanned edition (from Princeton Theological Seminary) here: http://www.archive.org/stream/devlha00ding#page/348/mode/1up

The melody and bass are mostly the same as p.198 in the Denson book, but the treble and alto differ considerably in places. The attribution to Coles, an Methodist preacher who emigrated from England to America in 1818, could explain why the piece has a very English feel to it - and why instances of it in English manuscript sources claim it   is American.
 
I wonder whether there are any earlier instances of the piece...

Fynn





Wade Kotter

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Jan 5, 2013, 11:09:32 AM1/5/13
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Nice find, Fynn. George Coles is known to have preached at the "Greene Street" Methodist Church in New York City:


A coincidence, perhaps, but Coles also preached at the "Duane-street" Methodist Church, which should ring a bell:

"The History and Character of Methodist; a Centenary Sermon, preached in the Duane-street Church, Oct. 25, 1939. By Rev. Geo. Coles. 8vo., pp. 40. Paper cover $0.05.

Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT


From: Fynnian Titford-Mock <fin...@hotmail.com>
To: "fasola-di...@googlegroups.com" <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 3:57 AM
Subject: [fasola-discussions] 198 Green Street

CHRIS BROWN

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Jan 5, 2013, 1:03:10 PM1/5/13
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Green Street occurs in two 1840s manuscripts from UK. One, from Yorkshire, is dated 1845 and the other from North Wales around the same date. Both bear hand written notes saying "From America". These were the earliest reference I knew of until Rachel Hall put a post on the fasola discussions last year in which she cited an 1830s reference,which I now cannot find as I am in Northumberland. I can't contact her as I do not have her email address here. 

Chris Brown

Wade Kotter

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Jan 5, 2013, 1:35:19 PM1/5/13
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On pp. 251-252 of:

"Annals of New York Methodism, being a history of the Methodist Episcopal church in the city of New York from A.D. 1766 to A.D. 1890." Samuel A. Seaman. New York: Hunt and Eaton, 1892.

I just found the following statement regarding George Coles:

"He took great interest in sacred music, and composed several tunes, among them 'Greene Street' and 'Duane Street.'"

The full text of this book is available here:


Suggestive, but not definitive. Perhaps Seaman got his attribution from the Devotional Harmonist.

Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT

From: Fynnian Titford-Mock <fin...@hotmail.com>
To: "fasola-di...@googlegroups.com" <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 3:57 AM
Subject: [fasola-discussions] 198 Green Street

Wade Kotter

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Jan 5, 2013, 12:22:38 PM1/5/13
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The correct title of Cole's sermon is "The History and Character of Methodism; a Centenary Sermon, preached in the Duane-street Church, Oct. 25, 1839;" this is the date listed in WorldCat and several other sources. I believe John Welsey taught his first open-air sermon near Bristol in April, 1739. Presumably Coles' sermon was intended as a "Centenary Sermon" celebrating that event.

Wade Kotter
South Ogden, UT


From: Wade Kotter <wadek...@yahoo.com>
To: "fin...@hotmail.com" <fin...@hotmail.com>; "fasola-di...@googlegroups.com" <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 9:09 AM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] 198 Green Street

Wade Kotter

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Jan 5, 2013, 1:10:23 PM1/5/13
to CHRIS BROWN, fasola-di...@googlegroups.com, fin...@hotmail.com
Chris:

I believe this is the message from Rachel you're referring to:

Bingo!  I was just looking through Musselmann's Choral Harmonie (1844) published in Harrisburg PA and I found 198 GREEN STREET under the title AMBROSE.  It's a 3-part arrangement and not quite the same as the parts we know.  The text is the familiar one, plus a German translation (loosely, I think).  Unfortunately Musselmann doesn't give a source for this - or any - song in his book.

For what it's worth, Choral Harmonie also contains CRANBROOK which I recognize as On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at.  So maybe there is something in the West Gallery connection....

best,

Rachel




Here's more info on Musselmann's book:

http://www.worldcat.org/title/neue-choral-harmonie-enthaltend-die-vornehmsten-kirchen-melodien-eingerichtet-zum-gebrauche-aller-christlichen-religionen-von-jeden-benennungen-und-auf-drei-stimmen-gesetzt-absonderlich-eingerichtet-zum-offentlichen-gottesdienste-als-kirchen-versammlungen-und-singschulen/oclc/30941426&referer=brief_results


On Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:22:20 PM UTC-4, cbrowo wrote:
In an 1844 English West Gallery Manuscript book, probably from Northern England, is a version of Green Street. Above this Ann Dodson, the compiler, has written "from America".
 
Warren Steel, in The Makers of the Sacred Harp, says that Green Street was in Collins' Timbrel of Zion, which was published in America in 1853.  So, either Ann got it from an earlier American source or she was still copying things into her book in the mid to late1850s.  
 
Does anyone know of any pre 1853 printing of Green Street in America?
 
Chris Brown 

John Garst

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Jan 6, 2013, 12:46:54 PM1/6/13
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George Coles went to New York in 1828. At that time, there were
seven Methodist churches in the city: John, Forsyth, Allen, Bowery,
Greenwich, and Duane. He lived at Duane-street and preached there as
part of a circuit shared with other preachers. I construe from pp
53-66 of *Incidents of My Later Years* (Coles, 1855), that he had
composed GREENE STREET by 1829.

*****
I had composed a piece of music called Greene-street, set to the
words, "All hail the powers of Jesus' name," which the choir were
desirous of singing, and thinking that it would be gratifying to my
feelings, my friend invited me to hear it. I do not know how Luther
was affected when he first heard his celebrated "Old Hundred" sung by
his German friends, but I do know, whatever may be the merits of the
piece called "Greene-street," that the coir performed it well, and I
was pleased.
*****

*Incidents* can be read at Google Books.

John


--
john garst ga...@uga.edu

John Garst

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Jan 6, 2013, 12:55:11 PM1/6/13
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Reading this over again, I find that I probably miscontrued the date.
I am not confident of the year when the choir at Union College,
Schenectady, sang GREENE STREET for Coles. It could have been after
GREENE STREET was published. It was, however, before September,
1846, when Coles made his "last visit" to Schenectady.

>I construe from pp 53-66 of *Incidents of My Later Years* (Coles,
>1855), that he had composed GREENE STREET by 1829.

Warren Steel

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Jan 6, 2013, 11:03:30 PM1/6/13
to ga...@uga.edu, fasola-di...@googlegroups.com
At 11:46 AM 1/6/2013, John Garst wrote:
>I had composed a piece of music called Greene-street, set to the words,
>"All hail the powers of Jesus' name," which the choir were desirous of
>singing, and thinking that it would be gratifying to my feelings, my
>friend invited me to hear it. I do not know how Luther was affected when
>he first heard his celebrated "Old Hundred" sung by his German friends,
>but I do know, whatever may be the merits of the piece called
>"Greene-street," that the coir performed it well, and I was pleased.

This is very telling. It confirms that Coles composed a tune called
Greene Street as a setting of "All hail the power of Jesus' name." If this
took place in Schenctady before 1846, and is, as seems likely, the tune we
know as Green Street (p. 198), it clearly antedates the appearance in T.K.
Collins Timbrel of Zion (1853). In The Makers, I postulated a British
source, due to its appearance in English and Welsh manuscripts from the
1840s and from its publication, as Immanuel, by Welsh singing-master
Richard Mills in Attodiad (Appendix) to Caniadau Seion (Llanidloes, 1842),
p. 50, which predates the German-language publication by American Mennonite
schoolteacher and tombstone-carver Samuel Musselmann in 1844. Mills also
came to America and published an edition of Caniadau Seion in Utica, New
York, not far from Schenectady, where Coles claimed to have composed the
tune, and where, incidentally, your correspondent was raised.
Coles, of course, was British-born (Stewkley, Bucks., 1792), but
emigrated in 1818, so is unlikely to have composed the tune before coming
to American, though it bears a distinct West Gallery flavor.
Coles, in addition to Duane Street, is also credited with the
arrangement "Thou art passing away" (p. 231) based on the popular song
"Wind of the winter night" by Enlish Jewish songwriter Henry Russell, a
song that Anne and I sang today at an excellent New Year singing at Shady
Grove, Winston County, Alabama.

--
Warren Steel mu...@olemiss.edu
Professor of Music University of Mississippi
http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~mudws/


Rachel Hall

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Nov 5, 2013, 12:05:00 PM11/5/13
to fasola-di...@googlegroups.com
Here's one more answer to an old thread... always good to tie off a loose end.  I finally got more info on John W. Steffy or Steffey, compiler of The Valley Harmonist (he publishes under Steffy but uses Steffey later in life). His dates are 1801-1879; he was born near New Market, Va. and moved to Indiana later in life.

My evidence is a letter he sent to the Musical Million in 1874 (Nov, vol.5, number 11) and Chute's obituary of him (May 1881, vol.12, number 5).  Presumably Chute's info on Steffey comes from a letter than Steffey sent directly to him, as he asks for info on Steffey in the Feb 1875 issue and reports subsequently that he has received info about him. 

best,

Rachel

ps:  ironically, the tune we credited to him in the Shenandoah (340 Princeton) turned up in Carrell's 1821 Songs of Zion.  Gotta change that one to "Arr. Steffey."


On Monday, December 31, 2012 3:08:36 PM UTC-5, Rachel Hall wrote:

Charlotte Greenfelder

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Jul 22, 2014, 7:31:25 PM7/22/14
to fasola-di...@googlegroups.com
Hi Rachel, 
Another researcher and I have a ton of Information on John W. Steffy and a complete annotated inventory.  Please let me know if you are interested in the information.  In addition I would love to have a copy of the obituary by Chute if you'd be willing to share.  I have another obituary but not that one.  
Thanks, 
Charlotte Steffey Greenfelder

On Monday, December 31, 2012 3:08:36 PM UTC-5, Rachel Hall wrote:
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