Raised sixths... again

[Fynn]

OK, it's not a subject I'm willingly resurrecting here - I always
think of Judy Caudle's brilliant response to a question about raised
sixths: "why don't you ask someone who really cares?"
But seriously, there are surely minor key songs that DON'T lend
themselves easily to a raised sixth (In the same way that it's
difficult NOT to sing a raised sixth in 159 Wondrous Love).
I'm thinking of 86 Poland here. I've never heard this with a raised
sixth - it's just awkward to sing it raised, especially the beginning
of the last line of each verse. Does anyone sing it raised? I ask this
because the example sound files at shapenote.net have two different
sound samples for each minor-key tune, one "traditional" (Dorian mode,
with raised sixths, and also ignoring any accidentals such as sharp
sevenths) and one "as written" . Does this distort the reality of
what is actually sung? Of course, what is actually sung will vary
anyway, as some people might sing the sharpened 7th "leading note",
whereas others will ignore it. But I doubt that those who say 'sixths
are always raised' really sing Poland that way.

In 260 Farewell Anthem, there are also several points where singing a
raised 6th FA throughout would create a horrible dominant 7th chord,
spoiling the grand effect of the (written) F major chord
(incidentally, the "traditional" example of this on shapenote.net has
a fairly random mix of raised and flat 6ths)

OK, obviously people should just learn from real people singing, not
from computer-generated sounds.

I actually love the fact that a large part of the SH tradition is not
notated.

or something...


Fynn

[invisibl...@gmail.com]

Yeah, good luck with that fa to fi jump in the tenor if you insist on raising the sixth.  

It's worth noting that Timothy Swan never wrote an accidental in his life.  In fact, the last three tenor notes of this song in his New England Harmony are a descending fa-mi-la, not la-sol-la or la-si-la.  It would be interesting to know where the ending in the Sacred Harp came from.  Poland was actually first published by Oliver Brownson in Select Harmony years before Swan's own book, and I wish I had a way to see that version.

Matt Bell

Fynn

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[Fynnian Titford-Mock]

Interesting about Swan's lack of accidentals. - I attach a rather grainy scan of the page from Brownson's Select Harmony, and the page from Swan's New England Harmony with its alternate ending, for those interested

I spoke too soon: here's Poland with raised 6ths, courtesy of the lovely Bremen bunch (Germany). http://www.sacredharpbremen.org/hall-hoehle 

This has evidently been learnt from their website http://www.sacredharpbremen.org/lieder/026-bis-099/086-poland, which in turn takes its sound examples from shapenote.net - the "traditional" raised 6th versions.   

(Sorry Harald for dropping you into this!)

Although I'm quite certain we didn't sing it like that when I was over there between September and January! 

Ah, evolving tradition and the folk process...

Fynn

---

From: invisibl...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 17:05:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again
To: fin...@hotmail.com
CC: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com

[mickve...@aol.com]

The problem here is that the more you try to define something, or identify a rule, the harder it becomes to explain. Thus, at various times, it is simpler for people to say "the sixth is always raised" than it is to explain exactly when and why it is raised.

As I have said before, for this question to be definitively answered someone needs to analyse a whole load of recordings stretching back as far as possible - a phd research project if ever I saw one. They will discover (I suspect) that the sixth is raised in some songs just because it is, and that it is not raised in others. They may be able to identify some underlying rule, but probably they won't.

They may also discover that the sixth is raised in some places but not others, that some sixths that used to be raised no longer are whilst some that didn't used be are now...

...or they could just enjoy the singing and the beauty of the songs.

Mick

Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

---

From: Fynnian Titford-Mock <fin...@hotmail.com>

Sender: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com

Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 23:00:04 +0000

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ReplyTo: fin...@hotmail.com

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Subject: RE: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again

[Wade Kotter]

Oliver Holden's 1797 6th edition of the  "Worcester Collection of Sacred Harmony" gives the last three tenor notes as la-si-la, so we know that the ending in the Sacred Harp goes back at least as early as 1797. But Poland first appeared in the 1991 edition, where it replaced T. W. Carter's Little Children; it's possible that Hugh McGraw or one of the other committee members can tell us what source they used.

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

---

From: "invisibl...@gmail.com" <invisibl...@gmail.com>
To: fin...@hotmail.com
Cc: Fasola Discussions <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:05 PM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again

[Fynnian Titford-Mock]

Well said Mick, I think that really sums it up. Nothing's ever a clear cut issue.

"Sometimes it's different"

Reading over previous posts (takes a while!) found this from Ted Johnson: "always thought "Poland" a Dorian no-no until I heard Anonymous Four sing it"

Anonymous 4's arrangement ( http://www.myspace.com/theanonymous4/music/songs/poland-42593775  ) uses one raised 6th as an accidental, not really dorian as it's not raised throughout.

Anyway, I suppose this discussion ought to be tucked up to sleep again for a while yet, unless anyone has anything vastly important to add. 

Oh, actually, there's an interesting passage in Reginald Nettel's 'Sing a Song of England: A Social History of Traditional Song', pp.205-207, which (quoting an article from the Tonic Sol-Fa Reporter of March 1864) discusses Welsh church choirs (in spite of learning music through tonic sol-fa) singing in Aeolian ("weeping Lah" as the report has it), that is ignoring the raised 7ths of the harmonic minor; as well in Dorian. I'll write it out later, with my comments if anyone's interested

Fynn

---

From: fin...@hotmail.com
To: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com
CC: invisibl...@gmail.com

Subject: RE: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again

Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 23:00:04 +0000

[Ted Johnson]

Fynn, I like what you've been saying about this issue. Sometimes it's just a question of awkwardness.

Reading over previous posts (takes a while!) found this from Ted Johnson: "always thought "Poland" a Dorian no-no until I heard Anonymous Four sing it"

Anonymous 4's arrangement ( http://www.myspace.com/theanonymous4/music/songs/poland-42593775  ) uses one raised 6th as an accidental, not really dorian as it's not raised throughout.

Yes I see what you mean. I do like how they make the harmonies work in that section.

Also:

I spoke too soon: here's Poland with raised 6ths, courtesy of the lovely Bremen bunch (Germany). http://www.sacredharpbremen.org/hall-hoehle

Wow, they're something! When it comes to the sixth, that's one very determined alto. I didn't notice if the trebles were raising it also.

I've gotten more relaxed about this matter. Aquinas spoke of beauty as "id quod visum placet, something that pleases when it is seen. Thus, as you suggest, we'll never finally settle it--maybe like pi, where the decimal representation never ends. My gratification seems to vary with the winds.

-Ted Johnson

---

From: Fynnian Titford-Mock <fin...@hotmail.com>

To: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:51 PM

[John Garst]

Raymond Hamrick's comment on this, many years ago, was to the effect
that it depends on where, when, what, and who.

John
--
john garst ga...@uga.edu

[Wade Kotter]

Based on my fairly limited experience and comments from those with much more experience, I think the same could be said of notated accidentals.

Wade Kotter

South Ogden, UT

---

From: John Garst <ga...@uga.edu>
To: "fasola-di...@googlegroups.com" <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:59 AM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again

Raymond Hamrick's comment on this, many years ago, was to the effect that it depends on where, when, what, and who.

John
-- john garst    ga...@uga.edu

[Sadhbh O'Flynn]

Hello, fasola discussions...

I only write because the raised 6th is an issue close to my heart. 'Twas I who asked about it of Judy that time! I was going to say something to the effect of exactly what Raymond Hamrick, who is immensely more qualified than I am to comment on the issue, said. I've somehow sung in 7 different countries now, and no one I've asked who I would have thought might know has had a definitive answer, and precious few others have cared. Perhaps that's typical of Sacred Harp singers through the ages, that it just doesn't matter. I wonder if it's just one of those things that genuinely has NO answer, which would be why it's so fun to talk about. Songs like 209 have an irresistible 6th-raising quality, I feel, but I tried it once in Funeral Anthem and fell off the note before I even gave it legs; the raised sixth didn't belong there, it was clear. Sometimes it seems that the composer's intention can be very obvious. But I guess the problem lies in the opposite of that; what about when it's not obvious...

In Cork, the trebles raise the sixth almost always, because I sing really loudly and I love the raised sixth. Maybe the answer is as simple as that on the wider scale too...

Sadhbh O'Flynn
Cork, Ireland

---

Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 09:16:38 -0700
From: wadek...@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again

To: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com

[Tarik Wareh]

It is very good, Sadhbh, to have your thoughts. Some of us who have
not yet sung with you have nonetheless enjoyed and yielded to your
loud treble thanks to YouTube! 209 is a mysterious example for you to
offer us. It does seem to sound good with the raised sixth, despite
the left brain throwing up a couple of reasons to be prejudiced
against this:
1. It's a New England composer's work of 1805.
2. The altos are singing a powerful fa-3 against the lead's fa-6 in
measure 11, where the lead might otherwise more readily -- because of
the descending melodic figure -- invite/accommodate the raised 6th in
comparison to the treble's two C's in the first part of the tune.

Having hazarded such thoughts, I should rush to state that I'm sure
I'm the least qualified one here to pronounce on this kind of thing,
so file what I say under curious musings. I can only hope I've muddled
things to the point where someone more expert will step in to make
things clearer, though I have also heard the chorus of wise voices
telling us that this is one of those deep and unanswerable mysteries,
and that we'd best not keep steering our little barks too close to its
tempting rocks.

Interesting that we're discussing this at the same time as the other
thread about accidentals in songs like 86 Poland. Before giving the
raised 6th a chance in 209 & coming around to its appeal, the
deviation from "how it's written" I could more readily hear was a
Polandesque la-si-la in measure 3!

Yours,
Tarik Wareh
Schenectady, N.Y.

P.S. After writing this I googled "cork evening shade 209" on a lark
and found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBJfcIrcGoY -- my ear's not
sharp enough to say what's happening there, but it sure sounds nice!

[John Garst]

Is this evidence of anything? Is it not possible that New Englanders
of 18th and 19th century were exactly like today's traditional
Southern SH people in their treatment of minor sixths? Traditions
tend to last.

> 1. It's a New England composer's work of 1805.

--
john garst ga...@uga.edu

[mickve...@aol.com]

"Is this evidence of anything? Is it not possible that New Englanders
of 18th and 19th century were exactly like today's traditional
Southern SH people in their treatment of minor sixths?"

They may have been, but is there any evidence that they were? Evidence that they were would be far more convincing than relying on an absence of evidence that they weren't...

Mick
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

-----Original Message-----
From: John Garst <ga...@uga.edu>
Sender: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 16:53:24
To: <fasola-di...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: ga...@uga.edu
Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again

[Carol Medlicott]

I have not weighed in on this discussion, but it occurs to me to mention something from my Shaker research. In fact, among among the Shakers, circa 1840 or so, a debate raged essentially over this very question of whether or not to raise the sixth. Two leading Shaker music theorists living at two different villages carried on quite a correspondence about it, in fact. Shakers tended to pitch things according to convenience and would record tunes in keys that would allow them to avoid accidentals. So most tunes were keyed on either C or A. But one prominent Shaker musician insisted that the proper "minor" mode took a raised sixth, so he keyed all his minor tunes in D. Many scribes seemed to follow his lead. So in Shaker music manuscripts it's possible to infer whether or not the preference for the raised sixth was present, depending on whether the manuscript uses A or D to key the minor mode. It's extremely common to find the same tunes recorded in A by one scribe and D by another. And it's not really associated with region. In fact, of some of the major manuscript hymnals that come to mind (ones with tunes numbering well over a thousand), ones from Kentucky and New York use A for the minor mode and one from Connecticut uses D. Yet, the Kentucky Shakers were most assuredly influenced by the singing styles and tune families of the region. So go figure.

Carol Medlicott

________________________________________
From: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com [fasola-di...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of John Garst [ga...@uga.edu]
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 4:53 PM
To: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again

Is this evidence of anything? Is it not possible that New Englanders

--

[John Garst]

There is evidence in mid-19th century publications, that I have noted
here before, that Yankees often (if not always) raised the minor
sixth. I imagine that this follows an earlier tradition.
--
john garst ga...@uga.edu

[Carlton, David L]

I think John's point is that unless there's evidence one way or the other about how New Englanders treated the sixth, the simple fact that a tune is of New England provenance can't be used as evidence of how to sing the sixth.


 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David L. Carlton
Associate Professor of History
Vanderbilt University Sta. B, Box 351523
Nashville, TN 37235-1523
Ph.: (615) 322-3326 FAX: (615) 343-6002
E-Mail:david....@vanderbilt.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Warren Steel]

At 03:53 PM 5/26/2012, John Garst wrote:
>Is this evidence of anything? Is it not possible that New Englanders of
>18th and 19th century were exactly like today's traditional Southern SH
>people in their treatment of minor sixths? Traditions tend to last.
>
>> 1. It's a New England composer's work of 1805.

I have before me a worn photocopy of Stephen Jenks'
1805 Norfolk Compiler, to which the tune EVENING SHADE
seems an afterthought, added on page XVI (presumably
designed for additional rudiments) before the caption
title on page [17]. The music is for three voices, and
the treble C in the third measure is preceded by a sharp
sign!

In my edition of Jenks's music I acknowledge that he
was less than totally consistent in his abundant use of
accidentals, but that he and Doolittle, among others,
clearly show the occasional sharping of the sixth degree
in minor tunes. Ironically, this tune, written by a New
Englander in 1805, actually *supports* the sharping by
notating it explicitly! As John replies,

> Is it not possible that New Englanders of 18th
> and 19th century were exactly like today's
> traditional Southern SH people in their treatment
> of minor sixths? Traditions tend to last.

And as Carol points out, "dorian" interpretations
existed among Shakers in New England and elsewhere.

I frankly do not like to discuss this issue, but would
far rather be singing. Outside of Sacred Harp singing I
like to think of my self as a "HIP" musician, involved in
"historically informed performance" of early music, where
fidelity to the composer's intention is an important goal
(though not the only one). If I were directing or
performing in a concert of early New England psalmody,
I'd probably perform the intervals and accidentals more
or less as written, although many of my performance
suggestions (accent, lack of tempered pitches, tonal
production) would be largely informed by the inherited
teaching and singing traditions of the Sacred Harp.

But Sacred Harp singing is *not* a concert, and
*not* an attempt at HIP performance--it's an actual
tradition of singing and teaching. Generally, I'm of
the opinion, shared with Ananias Davisson, B.F. White
and John G. McCurry, that there are but seven available
tones in each "Key" (mode), ("There are seven sounds in
music." --McCurry), and that the flat key (minor mode)
in Sacred Harp differs strongly from the notation. I
agree with Karen Willard and Dan Brittain that the
sharping of the sixth degree is a decent approximation
of this non-tempered scale, and should be done fairly
consistently, even by altos and basses (300, 542). This
should be done without writing sharps or saying "fee";
indeed I prefer the practice where "fee" and "see" are
never pronounced, even for written accidentals, agreeing
with Davisson, Wakefield, and B.F. White, rather than
James and J.L. White who introduced these new chromatic
syllables to their rudiments. Just say "faw".

But I acknowledge a problem with tunes like POLAND,
which was unfamiliar to Sacred Harp singers before 1991,
and which frequently seems to be in the relative key of
E major, so that an A-sharp may sound less satisfactory.
As John G,. McCurry says about similar tunes, "no man can
tell whether they are major or minor-keyed."

What I find counterproductive is the fine-toothed
combing of the Sacred Harp songbook to decide (under
somebody's rules or taste) which sixth degrees should be
sharped, and which should not, and then trying to get
everyone to agree in opinion and sound. Better a discord
in sound than discord in spirit and community.


--
Warren Steel mu...@olemiss.edu
Professor of Music University of Mississippi
http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~mudws/

[Carol Medlicott]

For Shaker circles, I can't really say there was a regional association. The two music theorists who hotly debated it were both "Yankees," and each one appealed to various musicological "evidence" to support his position.

Carol

________________________________________
From: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com [fasola-di...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of John Garst [ga...@uga.edu]

Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:29 PM
To: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again

There is evidence in mid-19th century publications, that I have noted

--

[mickve...@aol.com]

This is quite a long post - sorry!

I can't find anything to disagree with in Warren's very interesting comments... but I do think the problem is perhaps a little more of a problem than he does.

There are now a whole lot of people in a whole lot of places who have no real "traditional" intuition about when to raise the 6th and when not to. They have come to the music recently and in some cases very recently.

In my own case I was first exposed to Sacred Harp (in terms of singing and later to listening to recordings) in 1994 - so that makes me a recent addition. Furthermore I have yet to be able to make it to the US to sing. In the first few years, whenever the raised 6th was raised (sorry, pun intended) at singing schools the usual guidance was "let's not get into all that" presumably because it is simply so difficult to explain.

I had a long background of exposure to English traditional/folk, early/renaissance and church music and therefore the notion of raising the 6th sometimes, because a tune is modal rather than major or minor, was not foreign, but for me it always seemed that, in Sacred Harp, sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. So, when singing, I tend to follow two basic rules:

1. Is anyone else raising the 6th, and

2. Does it "work".

I accept that these are subjective and unreliable criteria but they are the best I have.

Unfortunately, there are lots of people who are much newer to this than me and who, in many cases, do not have quite the same musical "background". Some of these singers are trying to ignore the raised 6th except where it is virtually impossible to ignore it (e.g. Wondrous Love) whilst others, as we have heard, are trying to sing it all the time regardless of appropriateness (e.g. Poland). For this reason, I do think the issue merits proper study - not so that we can notate it or make it a rule, but so that we can better explain (to people like me!) how to develop and use their intuition as to when, and when not, to raise the 6th.

I am sure that no-one ever intended that the songs should be sung with dissonant clashes caused by a raised 6th being sung against an un-raised 6th in the same part - unfortunately I have heard that quite a few times over the past few years.

I never seem to have the money at the right times to get over to the US (I am restricted to school holidays and the air fares treble as soon as term ends) and for that reason I value every minute spent singing with American singers when they come to the UK - can't wait for this year's UK Convention!

Best wishes to you all,

Mick

Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Steel <mu...@olemiss.edu>
Sender: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com

[P Pate]

Actually I think that you have the gist of raising 6ths. Try it, and if it works, keep doing it. The other half of the response is that if it doesn't "work", don't do it.

I would suggest that most minor songs should have the raised 6th, but then I like the sound.

I would hate to see us trying to codify with precision the exact measures that one raises the 6th.

Many years ago, I asked about Poland specifically and how Southern singers knew whether and when to raise the 6th. I think that we were at the folio release singing when the new songs were published seperately from the new book. The answer from a most credible source was "We don't know, we are just learning this song too." Given an answer like that, each location has the opportunity to establish their own traditions of how to sing a specific song.

My personal encouragement would be to sing as many minor songs as possible, and raise the 6th on all of them. Your mileage may vary.

Peter Pate

p.s. One of my frequently offered comments is that there are three categories of songs in the Sacred Harp
1. Lugubrious minor melodies
2. Bear Creek and Lloyd
3. Misc and others

We probably won't get universal agreement on this categorization, but that's ok.

Peter
 

Mick posted:

>
> I can't find anything to disagree with in Warren's very interesting comments... but I do think the problem is perhaps a little more of a problem than he does.
>

> ... but for me it always seemed that, in Sacred Harp, sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. So, when singing, I tend to follow two basic rules:

[Tarik Wareh]

Dear John, Warren, and Others,

Thanks for your responses. That's fascinating evidence Warren cites
from Jenks' tunebook (score one for Sadhbh's instincts!), and I see
that it is available online for study
(http://imslp.org/wiki/The_Delights_of_Harmony;_or_Norfolk_Compiler_%28Jenks,_Stephen%29).
I see it does also confirm my intuition about la-si-la, marking
several sharp D's. I'm going to guess that the tenor's C gets the same
treatment though unmarked.

I am very glad to be able to completely revise my rough and simplistic
ideas in this light. Quite fun, really, to have my crude notions about
our New-England composers unsettled in this way. I think my error was
this--I was working with too crude a generalization that lumped
together all kinds of "folk-tune" and "modal" phenomena as more proper
to a later 19th-c. strand of the music in the Sacred Harp. I can see
that that's simply not the case, and that we mustn't lump together in
one undifferentiated grab bag such things as gapped scales, Mixolydian
tunes, and Dorian-sung minor tunes.

This corrective discussion will help me keep my ears open--and my mind
when I have no better choice than to pursue my love of this music in
solitary study. I am one of those brand-new-to-the-music singers who
have been mentioned--didn't know what a shape note was nine months
ago, only able to sing occasionally (not to mention immerse myself in
the deep stream of the tradition), and naturally confused about many
things. I realize the subject may be tedious to old hands, but I'm
grateful for the chance to discuss & grow less dim.

Tarik

[John Garst]

Southern traditional singers are taught that there are two scales,
major and minor. They are taught the conventional major scale, but I
think that they are taught, implicitly, a minor scale with a raised
sixth. That becomes ingrained, and whenever they see "Fa" in a minor
sixth position, they sing it raised.

There is a beauty in the symmetry of this.

Break a major scale into two tetrachords:

Fa Sol La Fa Sol La Mi Fa

The intervals within the two tetrachords are the same, w w h

Do the same for the minor scale:

La Mi Fa Sol La Fa Sol La

The intervals within the two tetrachords are the same, w h w
but only if the sixth is raised.

Otherwise (natural minor) the intervals in the upper tetrachord are h
w w, and the two tetrachords are not similar in their intervals.

[Robert Vaughn]

John, I think you hit on something that is true, as long as it is not stated too "universally" -- that is, that this is something true of all "Southern traditional singers". I suspect if all facts are ever in we will find it to vary by geography, family, era, and songs. Or maybe we already know that. When you say taught implicitly, I think this would carry with it the idea that we say the minor sixth is not raised (or have no knowledge of it or don't mention it) while always singing the scale with the sixth raised. To me that is different than singing some minor songs with the sixth raised and some songs without the minor sixth raised, which to my notion is what we do.

I find the find the beauty of symmetry of the scale with the minor sixth very interesting. But I find the simplicity of the scales that are consistent regardless of whether they are major or minor compelling. Perhaps in the long run a lot of this debate breaks down between people who are students of the this type of thing and love the aura of it, and those of us who never heard of it or worried about it or cared about it until we interacted with those who are students of this type of thing.

 
His glories sing,

Robert Vaughn
Mount Enterprise, TX
http://baptistsearch.blogspot.com
Ask for the old paths, where is the good way
http://mtcarmelbaptist.blogspot.com
For ask now of the days that are past...
http://oldredland.blogspot.com
Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.

---

From: John Garst <ga...@uga.edu>
To: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 7:57 AM

Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Raised sixths... again

[Warren Steel]

There is indeed beauty in this formulation, and, as an
approximation, it's not a bad place to start. I realize,
from Mick's and Tarik's responses to my earlier post, that
I might have seemed dismissive of the efforts of beginning
singers to find a "rule of thumb" that would stand them in
good stead.

For those who want to study and understand, in depth
and in detail, the gamut-based tonal system of the Sacred
Harp, there is no better resource than Tom Malone's
dissertation, "The Rudiments as Right Action: Pedagogy
and Praxis in the Traditional Sacred Harp Singing School"
(2009), from Proquest,
http://www.proquest.com/en-US/catalogs/databases/detail/pqdt.shtml
available for purchase or for access through subscribing
libraries and schools.

In his explanation of the methods of singing teachers,
Malone emphasizes that there is seldom a direct equivalency
between the assumptions, concepts and vocabulary of
traditional teachers and that of Western art music. This
applies as much to Moods of Time and Accent as to the Gamut
or tonal repertory. While showing that indeed the upper
tetrachord of the Minor Key is decidedly different from its
suggested equivalents in art music (natural, melodic, or
harmonic minor, or dorian), he offers several useful ways
of hearing it, based on the pedagogy of singing teachers,
passages in the rudiments in The Sacred Harp and earlier
tunebooks (note especially page 19 of the White rudiments),
and lastly the existence of settings of tunes with
"anhemitonic" gapped pitch repertories such as WAR
DEPARTMENT, THE INQUIRER, TRAVELING PILGRIM, etc. His
analysis has helped me to understand in a new way what
I've been hearing and singing for the past 30 years, and
I recommend it to the truly inquisitive.

For those looking for a simpler solution, or at least
a place to start, John's suggestion is a good one, as
are similar ones from Karen and from Dan. The danger,
as Joan has frequently pointed out, is that this allows
trained singers to remain complacent in a world of
keyboard harmonies, a dull world where twelve 100-cent
semitones do an octave make.

So what are we to do? 1. Sing together, frequently.
If there is a piano, or a MIDI device in the room, close
the lid and shut it off! 2. You may start by raising the
sixth degree, as John suggests. But you've only begun.
Listen to the people you're singing with, and tune to them,
not to an abstract note or chord. When you sing CALVARY,
GREENWICH, WINDHAM (all pieces by Read that strongly
feature the sixth degree) you want to ignore the keyboard
in your head. Does that sixth degree form a really perfect
(Pythagorean) fifth, like two open fiddle strings, with the
second degree of the same scale? Does the sixth degree form
a really sweet perfect third with the fourth degree of the
same scale? It cannot do both--the second is considerably
lower than the first--but both are part of the system as
orally demonstrated by teachers, and neither one can be
demonstrated on a piano or MIDI file. Other intervals and
chords should ring as well, in major as well as minor.

This is what generations of singers in the southern
U.S. have learned to do, without explicit explanations,
but with the aid of singing teachers, elder family members,
and occasional consultations of rudiments. It's not so
difficult: the basic intervals, and the simple arithmetic
ratios that they represent, are hard-wired into the
universe, and into our sense of hearing, and they are
part of the reason the songs inspire us and make us
feel closer to the author of that universe.

And if you choose to make an exception for a semi-
modulating tune like POLAND, no one will look unkindly--

[j frankel]

Ahhh.  I've been invoked!  Thank you, Prof. Steel.  Also for agreeing with me, at least for a lot of the way.

 

 

I'd like to bring up a few things that don't involve the 6th degree at all, but are, I feel, equally important to singings sounding good & bringing out that "ring" of tones really in harmony:

 

 

It's important that new singers, especially those from the classical world, be told that we're doing relative pitching; that we will pitch the songs where we think most in the group can sing them comfortably (but not so comfortably they don't have to reach just a *little*, sometimes), & that means not necessarily in the key in which they are written.  I hear it less up north here than I used to, but I still do sometimes hear "but that's not B#!" (or whatever) from some new singer, or, worse yet, I hear them just charging along "really on pitch" in their own mind, despite what pitch the rest of the singers have tuned to.

 

 

Something else to know about relative pitching is that the key chosen as tonic for the song does not have to be one of those on that 12-note chromatic scale some of you have in your heads.  It could be just a few hairs (I'm forgetting what the technical term is here) higher or lower than one of them.  That makes transcribing everything, mentally or even on paper, even harder.  So don't transcribe, learn to sing by the intervals given to you by the shapes!

 

 

I've been told even by some of those who would consider themselves folkies that "I don't sing on pitch"; this is when I am singing something acapella & they decided to join in on an instrument, only to find that I am not in any key that's "on" their instrument (at least not without a lot of retuning for the retunable ones).  But I certainly like to think I'm in tune with myself (I try to be anyway!), so what does it matter that they can't accompany me?

 

 

I learned the "pitch it where you're comfortable" thing either by instinct or from the Jewish cantorial style I heard since being very young (modern day cantors all "daylight" in better-paying musical jobs, so probably have adopted at least having their tonic note be one of the ordained 12, but the older ones I heard as a kid didn't necessarily), not from my later-life introduction to the Sacred Harp world.  I know what I'm doing, now that it's been pointed out to me, but I'm too pointy-headed to go memorize the "ordained 12" group of pitches & only choose my tonic note from among them.  Also too old.

 

 

And, somehow, even those who think I'm off-pitch because I've chosen a tonic note they don't like are able to both harmonize & sing in unison with me once they put down that instrument.  So have to let myself not feel *too* bad about the insult.

 

 

Also, though it might be strange to hear coming from me, there are a lot worse sounds than one of those Balkan-y minor 2nds (says someone who likes Balkan music).  People who knew more about the technical aspects of classical music said "oh, you must mean that raised 6th!" when we 1st started discussing this sort of thing here, years ago, & we were off (& yeah, I hope that horse does win that horserace this weekend, just because it's been a long time).  Usually they're when people are just enough of those "hairs" off whatever note most of the rest of the people in their part are singing that they form a very very very close interval no-one but the extreme musical technocrats really does have a name for, because it's so awful.

 

 

Something that doesn't happen to me very often, but it every so often does, is that I'll come out of a Sacred Harp singing & either hear something on the radio or, maybe, even being played & sung by real live people & think "gee, they ought to tune themselves!".  This is because my hearing brain is momentarily in a world where untempered tuning really *is* the norm, & anything off of it, even some pop song I normally love, sounds, well, "off".  It doesn't happen to me very often (which should tell you something about how untempered my own tuning really is, or isn't) but every now & then it does.

[Robert Vaughn]

From: Tarik Wareh <twa...@gmail.com>

To: mu...@olemiss.edu
Cc: fasola-di...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [fasola-discussions] Re: Raised sixths... some comments

...I am one of those brand-new-to-the-music singers who

have been mentioned--didn't know what a shape note was nine months
ago, only able to sing occasionally (not to mention immerse myself in
the deep stream of the tradition), and naturally confused about many
things. I realize the subject may be tedious to old hands, but I'm
grateful for the chance to discuss & grow less dim.

You've mentioned an important point that all the "old hands" need to remember. Some may have discussed this "ad infinitum", but others have not had the chance to discuss it all.

[STaylor]

> But I doubt that those who say 'sixths
> are always raised' really sing Poland that way.

I was curious about this. So, I listened an old recording I made at
the Chattahoochee Convention, 2010 of Poland. They sang it precisely
as written.

There are other examples of tunes and harmony that clearly don't work
in Dorian. And they are not just tunes of recent introduction to the
Sacred Harp. Hatfield is an example of a tune that used to be in the
book (It is still in the Cooper edition), arranged by B.F. White, and
it really sounds better in natural minor. There are also examples
from some of McCurry's arrangements that make it clear that he was not
always thinking in Dorian (like Mosley). Since these men wrote
rudiments in their books that explicitly proscribe the minor scale as
containing a half step between 5 and 6, none of this should come as a
surprise. Many of the tunes that are regularly sung by Sacred Harp
singers in Dorian also sound lovely when sung in natural minor.