Re: New to the group, this is my story

[Enough is Enough]

I enjoyed your story to say the least. But I have to inform you that weinland has no friends here!! 

I was an elder myself in weinland's cult. I knew Johnny, weinland's family, and Wayne personally. It is possible that I knew your parents. I walked away from weinland shortly after your parent's did. It was the best thing I ever did; being angry at myself for allowing myself to be completely deceived by liar weinland. I assure you that I am his most vocal critic and will remain so. Why? Weinland is a liar and a thief!! His history proves this and you need not to look any further.

However, I am interested in your story. Please continue to post here, but, remember that there will be some harsh criticism regarding weinland. I will be more revealing here and I will inform you that I was the elder over the state of florida. Does that ring any bells with you?

Anyways, welcome

[Enough is Enough]

Also, I wanted to add this:

Mike had a site where many of the ex-members posted on. This site no longer exists. These ex-members have moved on and are enjoying their lives and money once again far far away from the liar.

"If" you  are looking for ex members that will be difficult, unless, you still have contact will active members.

[William Cutting]

Doctor , how are your parents doing ?

[martin]

Nice to see somebody new, who ultimately escaped Ronald the fraud Weinland.

Now Ron, he is not just somebody trying to do the best he can to teach the truth.

He is a liar and a fraud and he knows it.

Now Ron is always trying to reconcile objective reality with what he wishes were true.

For example, when Pentecost 2019 was a big bust, Ron said he "was no prophet".

But then months later would explain that Rev 11 is still true (whatever that means).

So, this thief and liar, will never change his ways.

[martin]

Now when Ronald Weinland said in his stupid book, that Christ did not pre-exist, I swear, I thought I had misread something, nobody would teach such a patently incorrect and easily disproven doctrine.

Most who read that, should have gotten up, and left the building. But it did not seem to bother most, that Ron taught such a heresy.

There are plenty of scriptures that plainly describe Christ's pre-existence.

John 1: 1 would be one of them. Despite Ron's stupid explanation for John 1:1 and his butchering of the Greek meaning...John 1:1 should be clear, and is for most.

 

[Plimsol]

Martin

You are wrong when you say “nobody would teach such a patently incorrect and easily disproven doctrine”.

I personally think Ron is an idiot, but there are many people, much more intelligent than you or me, who believed and taught that Christ did not pre-exist. They include Thomas Jefferson, Joseph Priestley, Rudolf Bultmann, and (at least at one point) Samuel Taylor Coleridge. I take this from an entry on Wikipedia. And the doctrine is a key belief of the Christadelphians.

I make this point not because I think your biblical interpretation is mistaken. My view is that biblical interpretation is not the route to truth. Rather, I think that to say that Ron is false because what he says can be disproved by particular verses in scripture is to fail to learn one of the main lessons we can learn from Ron and his nonsense.

If you say that the Bible is the route to The Truth, and that you know exactly what the Bible does and does not mean, you are the same as Ron. You should form your own Church. Maybe some people will pay you tithes. There are some people who want to be told The Truth and who are looking for a Leader, a Prophet and an Apostle and who want to be part of a special group who possess insights which “the world” does not possess.

But Ron, like Herbert Armstrong before him, is not given truth by God, nor does he have any special insight into what the Bible means. Nor even does he just make stuff up.

He gets his ideas, including his ideas about the pre-existence of Christ, all the stuff before that, and the latest thing about “Jesus” being “Joshua”, from other people.

[Dean]

I think Ron just proclaimed his dismissal of Christ's pre-existence as a litmus test to determine who the 'faithful' were in PKG, and how far he could lead them into the ditch.

[Doctor Richtofen]

They’re doing fine, thanks for asking, William.

[Doctor Richtofen]

I’m sorry, EIE. I don’t remember any of the elders from Florida, my parents probably knew you though, but I do not remember.

I would like to push back on the concept of PKG being a cult though. I in no way am any friend of the Weinlands, I think they are a pack of oligarchic, hypocritical, liars and deserve the mocking and ridicule. But is PKG a cult? No, because when I hear cult I think Jones Town and Spahn Ranch, PKG was nothing like that for the simple reason that Ron was a terrible cult leader, he wasn’t charismatic or a great preacher, he was an arrogant pain in the butt, and I think most people (my family did anyway) saw him for who he was, that’s what made it easy to walk away.

The point I was trying to make in my post was that PKG was a flawed organization for sure, and I think everyone should leave now that it’s obvious that Ron is an unapologetic false prophet. But that there were good times and good things to come out of PKG.

And to address the point about ex-members: I don’t have any contact info for anyone, besides, I remember Ron’s strict gag order on talking to “rouge” members. I had hoped that this group was where some ex-members would gather that I would’ve know, or perhaps could point me in the direction of another forum of some kind. I don’t know the make-up of this group but I presume you all to be ex-members?

[Doctor Richtofen]

I agree with you entirely, Plimsol.

I think you have to be very careful when you try to interpret, or listen to anyone try to interpret the Bible, you have to remember that is all it is, an interpretation.

[Doctor Richtofen]

I agree, Dean. I think Ron just comes up with a lot of this stuff just to make himself seem special and different from all the other groups. That’s what I think this whole Jesus/Joshua debacle is about, just another weird technicality to make all is followers stick out even more like a sore thumb in any social gathering not related to PKG.

Though, it was funny when I clicked on one of the recent sermons and I heard him talking about Joshua the Christ and thought: who the hell is Joshua and how’d he get away with stealing Jesus’s title

EDIT: BTW if it becomes too much spam having me reply to everyone separately, just tell me and I can condense all my replies into one. I don't know how everyone has their notifications set up and wanted to make sure every saw my reply.

[Enough is Enough]

Doc,

Glad to see you responded to all.

I respect your opinion about your concept about pkg not being a cult. However, a connotation of a "cult" is defined as this, "devoted attachment to a person, principle, etc."

As an elder, I was instructed by weinland to report any member who was showing a disloyalty to him, not to mention, that if any member was not tithing it was my responsibility to find out why and report to weinland.  SOUNDS LIKE A CULT TO ME!

Also, I am curious about your defending pkg and at the same time expressing your disparaging opinions about weinalnd. It almost sounds like this is an attempt to recruit former members back to pkg. I assure you, if this is true, will not happen. Those of us who walked away from weinland will never return. We have taken back our lives and will never give our lives up  again to any smooth talking lying, greedy, thief again. There where some who grouped together and kept the Holy Days and Sabbath together and took a very strong stand against organized religion, well, they have long since disbanded and that is that.

I do apologize to you if I sound angry and directing this towards you, that is not the case. I have very deep disgust toward weinland and any attempt to justify his deplorable actions will garner a reaction from me.

[Mike (DDTFA)]

Given that you were still coming of age and also living somewhat remotely from other members, you might not have had a full picture of the abuses Weinland was placing on the members.  Even though your parents as elders may have had a better view, they probably didn't share it with you.

As a remote observer, I think that PKG had the three Lifton characteristics in the following article along with the 10 warning signs: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/27/cults-definition-religion  EIE would have had a better view than I.

[William Cutting]

Glad to hear you and your parents are doing well . Going through something like that can be a very positive thing or it has the potential to destroy someone .
It can increase your faith and understanding or decrease your faith and cause confusion . God uses False Prophets to test people (Deuteronomy 13).
I understand your position , forming bonds with people , going places and doing things you may not have had the chance to do otherwise is a good thing and exciting especially at a young age .
This can also be dangerous because these groups become a social experience for people and a hive mind sets in , the group is one but not in the right way . The leader is the god of the little matrix he created for them and delusion feeds on delusion , which is the current state of things in pkg . The people are looking for destruction and captivity of America and do not see that it is themselves who have been taken captive and led into slavery . Sadly that is the end of the story for many. The Truth is Ron is an abomination coming in the name of Christ , he is the pharaoh that will not let the slaves go . He was taught by his master how to extort money , it's all about the paycheck for the 2020 BMW . https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o-k8MYGzMec&list=PLU0GFbkWX0lnpQG8T0xE5RIXgEEDRmItQ&index=2&t=0s

[Doctor Richtofen]

EIE, if I didn’t find the concept of me being a PKG spy sent undercover to recruit new members so hilarious, I would be a little insulted.

I will say it again for the people in the back: Ron is a false prophet. To go back to PKG after May 27^th 2012 is absurd. I remember listening to the last sermon before where he talked about what he would do if he was wrong, he did none of it and that always infuriated me.

The point I’m making is, that I think, Ron can be flat out wrong, in it for money, and deceiving people without it being a cult. Perhaps I’m just arguing over semantics, but I read Mike’s link to The Guardian article, and to me it seems that under those stipulations, almost anything could be classified as a cult.

We all hate Ron, I get that. But in the quest to rag on him I don’t think we should, in my opinion, exaggerate the truth.

[Enough is Enough]

Doc,

Thank you for your clarification, it is appreciated.

You have to understand that I was very close to the inner circle and I am very much aware of laura and ron's hypocrisies.  I became very much aware of their efforts to control and dictate the lives of the members. It was to the point that the members of Florida were constantly asking me questions on every day decisions that had nothing to do with pkg. That is one of the many reasons I left weinland's organization because I refused to dictate to these members of decisions that was their personal business and no one else. That, to me, defines a cult.

It is clear to me that you and I have a different opinion on what a cult is. Please understand, I fully respect your position. My position is solid because I was to close to the inner circle and have direct knowledge of what was really going on. I will tell you it was all about money and the object was to control the ones who paid to keep the cash coming in. For example, weinland's conviction of five counts of tax fraud. Well, do you remember all the lies about that to the membership? It was designed to protect the cash flow and keep control of the membership and it was successful. Not to mention the lying of failed returns of  Christ. All of his excuses (lies) were nothing but damage control and it continues today.

I want to thank you for comments because it is reminding of what weinland really is and I must admit that I am venting my anger, I thank you  for that. So I am pleased that you have a good sense of  humor and please keep posting.

[rterlecki17]

Doc , Ron is the kind of guy if you turn the other cheek , he will reach in the other pocket

[William Cutting]

Doctor Richtofen , were your parents part of Worldwide ?

[Doctor Richtofen]

Yes William, they were.

[William Cutting]

I believe Good things are coming out of all this history . What are your thoughts moving forward ?
I know people who went through Worldwide and were given more understanding , even more than the great apostle Ron Weinland :)

[Fooled No More]

Hey! I don't visit for a while and I come back to a pleasant surprise!

Doc, welcome to our little corner in the world! I too was former PKG, but I lived through the May 27, 2012 debacle and was all the poorer for it. After nearly three more years of dealing with broken prophecies and false hopes, I called it quits on March 8, 2015 with a detailed letter to the powers that be.

I can tell you some very interesting stories of the things I saw and dealt with..........some not very pleasant at all.

As far as PKG being  a "cult", I'm of the mind that any organization that looks down on thinking for yourself and then getting an attitude when you question this or that, I consider that to be a cult. Doesn't have to be necessarily religious, but can be practically any organization.

Either which way, I'm glad you've decided to post here and let us know you're out there! As far as getting in touch with past members, I keep in touch with no one since I left unless they also have left. No one I know who is still there has contacted me in nearly five years and as time goes on, I don't really expect to ever hear from them again.

IF I wanted to, I could contact them as I still have their email addresses and phone numbers. Of course, those could have been changed, but I still have them nevertheless.

Leaving PKG was probably one of the best (and liberating) things I ever did and looking back I can definitely see how wrong Ron (and Laura) were about certain things and how to this day they're still trying to fleece money out of folks.

You say you were in Florida...........I was last there (Orlando) for the FOT in 2011 when the infamous LGD sermon was given which had nearly half the people in tears. It took me some time, but I come to realize that everything Ron does is planned waaaay in advance including that sermon and the aftermath that followed leading up to 5/27/2012 and what immediately followed after that.

Please do keep in touch and just so you know, I'm in the mid-Atlantic region so we indeed may know some of the same folks. ;)

[Fooled No More]

Doc, I want to add that when I was last with PKG in 2015, the numbers of folks was shrinking then with no real growth since the time I joined back in late 2008. We had I believe one or two people join in the last five years I was there and one of those I know for a fact is no longer with them as he was one of the folks I kept in touch with for a spell.

If more have left, it would be hard to know as they hadn't posted on the old site or here. Also, there's the aspect of sheer embarrassment on their part as it would be hard for some to admit that they and especially Ron were wrong.

[Doctor Richtofen]

William, I assume by thoughts moving forward, you mean church/religion one? If so, then I can’t ever really imagine joining a group ever again. I have my basic beliefs about God/The Bible and that’s good enough for me.

[Doctor Richtofen]

FNM, I probably wouldn’t bother to try and contact anybody at this point, the more I thought about it, I figured it’d be a waste of time if they are still in PKG. Besides, I don’t even know what I’d say anyways.

You brought up the infamous LGD sermon. I too, remember that day. The waves of nausea rolling off of people was almost palpable, and the tension was so thick, it almost formed a living entity. But I do remember the purity test from some saying how “They weren’t worried for a moment” or that “They knew this was a test, and he was going to turn it around” so I guess those people “passed” the test.

I always thought it seemed an odd way to tell your followers about this event, it always felt like he was trying to play a dirty prank on the congregation as opposed to alleviating concerns. It is funny though, of everything Ron said would come true, that sermon was the closest thing to true that I think he ever said.

I imagine PKG must be shrinking, I mean, who would join after reading 2008: God’s Final Witness, talk about aging poorly.

[Mike (DDTFA)]

PKG is shrinking, with the loss of prominent members such as Ralph Dowd and Weinland's own sister and mother.  It's been reported that Detroit now only meets once a month when at one time it was one of the larger local groups.

[rterlecki17]

Mike once a month and only about 8 members left and I heard mom tell someone Ron has to go back in for another operation

[William Cutting]

Doc, I hear ya on that 100%.

[William Cutting]

Ron aka "The Gambler" aka "The Cincinnati Kid" was playing no limit Texas hold'em back in 2008 . The dealer was Satan , Ron had a hand that he thought looked pretty good , he went all in and lost!

He could not pay his debts after that game and was put in a uncomfortable situation . In order to Build* his bankroll ) he Lavished the remaining supporters with Flatteries , telling them they were Amazing and Awesome for going through all these tests and the temple was being cleansed and they were all so squeaky clean and wonderful for staying and blah blah blah extraordinary !

What is really Extraordinary is Ronald wrote another book called Prophesy Against the Nation$ where he entered a new game . Again, Satan dealt the cards and Ron pushed all his chips in the middle , every date was tied together and all was clean and nice in his temple . Ron lost again .

The *New Book* which is the same old false prophecy minus a return date for Christ is also quite extraordinary , it looks like by the end of this game it will just be Ron and Satan , alone at last . https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7hx4gdlfamo

[William Cutting]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UI6pSkIs_tc

$:)

[martin]

"Mike once a month  and only about 8 members left and I heard mom tell someone Ron has to go back in for another  operation "

Ron says that Rev 11 is still true (even though Ron said himself, he is no prophet).

Yet he has to go for multiple operations and hospital stays......that sound like a mighty prophet of God to you?

In Revelation 11 it says that God will give to his Two Witnesses.....miraculous powers of all sorts....

Yet Ron is sick with heart problems.

Did God forget something, or is Ronald Weinland simply a false prophet?