Nostalgia

[Justin Mallone]

Reddit thread on self.movies:

http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/28q69n/on_this_weekend_in_1984/

> On this weekend 30 years ago, in the summer of 1984, you could stroll into a movie theater and choose between the following films:
> • Ghostbusters
> • Gremlins
> • Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
> • The Karate Kid
> • Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
> • Top Secret!
> • The Natural
> • Police Academy
> Plus, Sixteen Candles and Footloose had just closed the weekend before.

Replies below. I've used quote levels to mimic the structure of the thread and interspersed comments and reactions throughout.

> [–]BenjaminTalam 1938 points 4 hours ago
> Yeah but on this weekend in 2014 I can stroll into my room and watch all of those naked if I so desired.
> • permalink

:D

>>
>> [–]ThePlaceILive 424 points 3 hours ago
>> Exactly. People who complain about "I wish I lived in the 60s/70s/80s/90s so I could see movie/band/whatever" don't know how good we have it. Before around 1980 home video wasn't even a thing, and initially it was expensive as shit. If you wanted to see a film you saw it when it was in cinema or you didn't see it at all.

Holy crap. I'm not sure I've ever really thought about this. I grew up when VHS videos of stuff was common but that was a pretty new phenomenon I guess.

>> If you wanted to listen to a band you liked you paid full price for an awkward ass vinyl record of one album or you didn't hear it at all, and that's if you could find a copy.

Heh yeah. And not that long after the internet came around people decided buying full albums on CD was such BS they just stopped. But man, compared to vinyl...

>> You wish you lived in the 60s so you could listen to the Beatles? Today you can get all of their albums instantly and take them with you wherever you go. You wish you lived in the 80s so you could watch all these movies? Same deal. Plus the same deal for more obscure media from right through the 20th and 21st centuries. 2014 has its problems, but in terms of access to entertainment media there has not been a better time to be alive.
>> • permalink
>> • parent
>>>
>>> [–]nickiter 487 points 2 hours ago
>>> Sometimes "easier" doesn't equal "more enjoyable".
>>> • permalink
>>> • parent
>>>>
>>>> [–]city_of_apples 188 points 2 hours ago
>>>> Yep. The movie theater as a teen in the mid-late 80's was such an amazing thing. I like having things at my fingertips now, but I'd trade it for those days in a second.
>>>> Translation: Argh, kids these days!

Guy gives his reasons some later.

>>>>>
>>>>> [–]nyanpi 48 points 2 hours ago
>>>>> Wait, you'd trade in instant access to nearly all known media for the obviously nostalgia-distorted experience of going to a shitty theater in the mid to late 1980s to watch a movie? I'm nearly 30 and I don't understand what makes people feel this way. Will I get to a point some day when I am officially "old" and start talking about how I'll trade in all of life's modern technological advancements for even a glimpse of how it "used to be" in the "good old days"?
>>>>> I just don't get what makes people this way once they reach a certain age.
>>>>> • permalink
>>>>> • parent

Shitty theater is a good point too. Honestly at this point I consider everything that's not 80-foot-screen/stadium seating a shitty theater (this includes lots of the FAKE iMaxes or rather LIEMaxes) and have to REALLY want to see a movie to bother with them.

>>>>>> [–]StuartMThomas 12 points 56 minutes ago
>>>>>> This is turning into some young vs old BS argument.
>>>>>> Would we trade it in? No.
>>>>>> Was getting a new vinyl and sliding it out of the sleeve ever so carefully to be played the very first time on your turntable awesome? Yes.
>>>>>> You prepped the needle and dusted everything. It was an experience.

iPods/iPhones can play thousands of songs without needles or needing to dust anything, so I'm not seeing the upside here.

>>>>>> I love having my iTunes library with all of my albums readily available and I wouldn't give it up. But don't underestimate that, with every advancement, there may be things that we leave behind and there's nothing wrong with lamenting that loss.
>>>>>> • permalink
>>>>>> • parent

Notice he hasn't really mentioned or argued anything -- just asserted -- and yet he's saying "and there's nothing wrong with lamenting that loss" or in other words "AND I'M RIGHT SO THERE."

>>>>>>
>>>>>> load more comments (3 replies)
>>>>>> [–]city_of_apples 61 points an hour ago
>>>>>> It really was an event

Why is movies being an "event" good? What's good about events?
Like, if you like movies, why isn't having easy access to them as an integrated part of your life better than them being events?

>>>>>> --stop at Friendly's beforehand,

You could watch movies on your iPad AT Friendly's! That's a NEW option!

>>>>>> then leave an hour or so for Gauntlet,

Old games nostalgia too...
FYI Gauntlet is available through Midway Arcade iOS app.

>>>>>> then hang a little with your friends after pretending to be bad ass because your mom was late in picking you up -- those were good times.
>>>>>> I'm not saying it's for everyone, but for this old man, I'm content with my original statement.
>>>>>> • permalink
>>>>>> • parent

Man the quality of argument here is pretty low.

>>>>>> load more comments (7 replies)
>>>>>> [–]yuki-nagato 25 points an hour ago*
>>>>>> We have access to every movie in existence at our fingertips so watching a movie isn't anything special. Back then, it was precisely because it was a much rarer experience. It reminds me of my grandparents talking about pop in the "good old days" - they'd have a pop maybe a couple times a month and it meant something for them. The pop wasn't any better but it wasn't a "no big deal" experience like it is now that people basically drink pop every day.

I've heard that people from communist countries would be like overwhelmed in Western supermarkets because of all the choices.
I wonder if people are overwhelmed by all the media choices they have available (and a lack of principles for deciding between them) and thus long for the days when there were 3 TV networks, a handful of movies in the theater, etc.

I don't think this explains everything, though. What do you think?

-JM

[PAS]

On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 18:34:17 -0400
Justin Mallone <just...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Reddit thread on self.movies:
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/28q69n/on_this_weekend_in_1984/
>
> > On this weekend 30 years ago, in the summer of 1984, you could stroll into a movie theater and choose between the following films:

> > * Ghostbusters
> > * Gremlins
> > * Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
> > * The Karate Kid
> > * Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
> > * Top Secret!
> > * The Natural
> > * Police Academy

> > Plus, Sixteen Candles and Footloose had just closed the weekend before.
>
> Replies below. I've used quote levels to mimic the structure of the thread and interspersed comments and reactions throughout.
>

> > [-]BenjaminTalam 1938 points 4 hours ago

> > Yeah but on this weekend in 2014 I can stroll into my room and watch all of those naked if I so desired.

> > * permalink
>
> :D
>
> >>
> >> [-]ThePlaceILive 424 points 3 hours ago

> >> Exactly. People who complain about "I wish I lived in the 60s/70s/80s/90s so I could see movie/band/whatever" don't know how good we have it. Before around 1980 home video wasn't even a thing, and initially it was expensive as shit. If you wanted to see a film you saw it when it was in cinema or you didn't see it at all.
>
> Holy crap. I'm not sure I've ever really thought about this. I grew up when VHS videos of stuff was common but that was a pretty new phenomenon I guess.
>
> >> If you wanted to listen to a band you liked you paid full price for an awkward ass vinyl record of one album or you didn't hear it at all, and that's if you could find a copy.
>
> Heh yeah. And not that long after the internet came around people decided buying full albums on CD was such BS they just stopped. But man, compared to vinyl...
>
> >> You wish you lived in the 60s so you could listen to the Beatles? Today you can get all of their albums instantly and take them with you wherever you go. You wish you lived in the 80s so you could watch all these movies? Same deal. Plus the same deal for more obscure media from right through the 20th and 21st centuries. 2014 has its problems, but in terms of access to entertainment media there has not been a better time to be alive.

> >> * permalink
> >> * parent
> >>>
> >>> [-]nickiter 487 points 2 hours ago

> >>> Sometimes "easier" doesn't equal "more enjoyable".

> >>> * permalink
> >>> * parent
> >>>>
> >>>> [-]city_of_apples 188 points 2 hours ago

> >>>> Yep. The movie theater as a teen in the mid-late 80's was such an amazing thing. I like having things at my fingertips now, but I'd trade it for those days in a second.
> >>>> Translation: Argh, kids these days!
>
> Guy gives his reasons some later.
>
> >>>>>

> >>>>> [-]nyanpi 48 points 2 hours ago

> >>>>> Wait, you'd trade in instant access to nearly all known media for the obviously nostalgia-distorted experience of going to a shitty theater in the mid to late 1980s to watch a movie? I'm nearly 30 and I don't understand what makes people feel this way. Will I get to a point some day when I am officially "old" and start talking about how I'll trade in all of life's modern technological advancements for even a glimpse of how it "used to be" in the "good old days"?

It's not an age thing, it's a mindset. There is a correlation with age, but not a direct causation. More below.

> >>>>> I just don't get what makes people this way once they reach a certain age.

> >>>>> * permalink
> >>>>> * parent

>
> Shitty theater is a good point too. Honestly at this point I consider everything that's not 80-foot-screen/stadium seating a shitty theater (this includes lots of the FAKE iMaxes or rather LIEMaxes) and have to REALLY want to see a movie to bother with them.
>

> >>>>>> [-]StuartMThomas 12 points 56 minutes ago

> >>>>>> This is turning into some young vs old BS argument.
> >>>>>> Would we trade it in? No.
> >>>>>> Was getting a new vinyl and sliding it out of the sleeve ever so carefully to be played the very first time on your turntable awesome? Yes.
> >>>>>> You prepped the needle and dusted everything. It was an experience.
>
> iPods/iPhones can play thousands of songs without needles or needing to dust anything, so I'm not seeing the upside here.
>
> >>>>>> I love having my iTunes library with all of my albums readily available and I wouldn't give it up. But don't underestimate that, with every advancement, there may be things that we leave behind and there's nothing wrong with lamenting that loss.

> >>>>>> * permalink
> >>>>>> * parent

>
> Notice he hasn't really mentioned or argued anything -- just asserted -- and yet he's saying "and there's nothing wrong with lamenting that loss" or in other words "AND I'M RIGHT SO THERE."
>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> load more comments (3 replies)

> >>>>>> [-]city_of_apples 61 points an hour ago

> >>>>>> It really was an event
>
> Why is movies being an "event" good? What's good about events?
> Like, if you like movies, why isn't having easy access to them as an integrated part of your life better than them being events?
>
> >>>>>> --stop at Friendly's beforehand,
>
> You could watch movies on your iPad AT Friendly's! That's a NEW option!
>
> >>>>>> then leave an hour or so for Gauntlet,
>
> Old games nostalgia too...
> FYI Gauntlet is available through Midway Arcade iOS app.

I think this is a desire for the old level of social shit. Another form of it goes something like:
- I remember when people used to sit and just enjoy each other's company. I really miss that.
Which I translate as:
- In the good old days we were so fucking bored all the time. All we had to do was sit around and bullshit each other to pass the time. I wish you didn't have anything better to do than listen to me bullshit more.

The "problem" these people see with modern media is that it's easy and convenient to purchase and consume it *all by yourself*. And since there's lots of it available, more than you could ever exhaust, you need not be bored enough at any point in your life to find bullshitting with other bored people a more attractive option than sitting in silence. Social oriented people hate that.

>
> >>>>>> then hang a little with your friends after pretending to be bad ass because your mom was late in picking you up -- those were good times.
> >>>>>> I'm not saying it's for everyone, but for this old man, I'm content with my original statement.

> >>>>>> * permalink
> >>>>>> * parent

>
> Man the quality of argument here is pretty low.
>
> >>>>>> load more comments (7 replies)

> >>>>>> [-]yuki-nagato 25 points an hour ago*

> >>>>>> We have access to every movie in existence at our fingertips so watching a movie isn't anything special. Back then, it was precisely because it was a much rarer experience. It reminds me of my grandparents talking about pop in the "good old days" - they'd have a pop maybe a couple times a month and it meant something for them. The pop wasn't any better but it wasn't a "no big deal" experience like it is now that people basically drink pop every day.
>
> I've heard that people from communist countries would be like overwhelmed in Western supermarkets because of all the choices.
> I wonder if people are overwhelmed by all the media choices they have available (and a lack of principles for deciding between them) and thus long for the days when there were 3 TV networks, a handful of movies in the theater, etc.
>
> I don't think this explains everything, though. What do you think?

I also think there's more going on here.

One thing I already mentioned is how old media used to require you to be more social than new media.

Another, related aspect is that when there were only 3 networks (with lots of reruns) and 2 theaters in town people tended to all see pretty much the same stuff. That created more of a monoculture - shared experiences that people could rely on discussing to facilitate social relationships without having to think about much. This was true even when the media itself wasn't around - sitting on a bus or waiting for jury duty etc.

Another aspect is resistance to change. Some people value stasis in and of itself. Meaning, even if they know something new is better, they prefer the old for no other reason than that it's the old. I haven't counted or surveyed but I'd guess that most people place at least some value on stasis. Why? I think it's because change requires more thought than stasis, and some people don't like thinking.

I also think some of what is going on here is idolization of childhood. Some people have an emotional fondness for the way things were "when I was a kid". It affects their preferences in shows and music a lot, but also furniture and car styles and clothing too. Why? Some reasons might be that they had less worries and responsibilities. They had lots of free time. They had the joy of discovering lots of things for the first time. Other people had ready (even if wrong) answers to many of their questions/problems so it was easier to make rapid progress. Maybe some other things.

I think these factors are correlated with increasing age but aren't caused by age itself. They're not an inevitable result of getting older. It's possible to like change, to want it, and not to wish for circumstances that make people so bored they have no better option than to sit around and do social bullshit with you, at any age.

PAS

[Lulie Tanett]

On 21 Jun 2014, at 08:57 pm, "Elliot Temple cu...@curi.us [fallible-ideas]" <fallibl...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> On Jun 21, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Justin Mallone <just...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> load more comments (7 replies)

>>> [-]yuki-nagato 25 points an hour ago*

>>> We have access to every movie in existence at our fingertips so watching a movie isn't anything special. Back then, it was precisely because it was a much rarer experience. It reminds me of my grandparents talking about pop in the "good old days" - they'd have a pop maybe a couple times a month and it meant something for them. The pop wasn't any better but it wasn't a "no big deal" experience like it is now that people basically drink pop every day.
>>
>> I've heard that people from communist countries would be like overwhelmed in Western supermarkets because of all the choices.
>> I wonder if people are overwhelmed by all the media choices they have available (and a lack of principles for deciding between them) and thus long for the days when there were 3 TV networks, a handful of movies in the theater, etc.
>>
>> I don't think this explains everything, though. What do you think?
>

> Among many other things, yes taking *initiative* to make *choices*, and taking *responsibility* for dealing with *freedom*, are *unwanted* by many people.
>
> Having options in life introduces the fear of choosing badly, and makes what to do with your life less clear.

What is the difference between this bad thing, and times when it's *good* to have less choice/more restrictions?

Like the typical TCS example of a child who is bored and asks what to do, and you suggest trying to walk around the room climbing on furniture, without stepping on the floor. This reduces choice in some sense, but is more fun.

Or sometimes if you have one Lego set, it can be fun to work out what you can do with just those pieces (compared to if you have all available pieces). Or if you have magnetic fridge words, if you have few words then there's the fun challenge of working out what can be said with them, but if you have loads then it's more like just writing stuff and it's not as fun.

What about how your choice is limited in the Apple App Store (more screening of apps), whereas it's less limited in the Android App Store? It's less choice in a sense, but you see less shitty apps.

Why is this different from having a limited set of movies to pick from?

--
Lulie Tanett