On Jan 23, 2016, at 7:50 PM, Lulie Tanett lu...@lulie.org
> On 23 Jan 2016, at 16:44, Lulie Tanett lu...@lulie.org
>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 08:07, Justin Mallone just...@gmail.com
>>> Also on the subject of not treating people as autonomous moral beings:
>>>> One woman who lived in Raqqa said that if a woman is considered to have violated the dress codes, the militants flog her husband, since he is seen as responsible for her. When her neighbor put out the garbage without being properly covered, she said, the woman's husband was whipped.
>>> Now, of course, I don’t think it’d be a big improvement if they punished the woman. The whole situation is horrible. Still, I found it interesting that ISIS treats women with such contempt that they deny them the respect of even being the object of punishment for their behavior.
>>> It reminded me somewhat (albeit in much much nastier form) of the punishment of parents for offenses committed by their children...
>> What are ways parents get punished for their children's offences? Examples?
>> Is that worse than the child getting punished?
>> You say about the ISIS example that you don't think it'd be a "big" improvement if the woman were punished, implying it's better she get punished than her husband.
I actually don’t know what I think about what’d be better.
By not big improvement I meant more like, I don’t think making that change would really help the situation.
I think ISIS “society” is so purely evil and immoral that it just needs to be destroyed, and so I don’t see the point of carefully considering which reforms to make to its deeply evil institutions, which ones would be better or worse for various things, etc. What would be the point?
I wasn’t proposing a specific reform to punish kids instead of parents.
I was noting a similarity in the way of treating people who are dehumanized, which involves punishing a third party.
A common idea is that you shouldn’t punish people for stuff they’re not responsible for.
And I was merely noting what I thought was a similarity in the parenting case and the ISIS case.
I don’t think curfew laws should exist. I don’t think truancy laws should exist. I don’t think compulsory education should exist.
And I think if compulsory education does exist, kids should get effective protection from harassment and violence at schools. And if a student is repeatedly like attacking another student or something, it should be possible to eject the aggressive student from the school. I think it’s ridiculous to force a bunch of kids to go some place by law, and then not protect them, then say it’s not your job to protect them, and then ineffectually punish the parents for your failure. I don’t think fining the parent really helps solve the issue much. Things like “students whose parents can’t get their kids to stop hurting other kids” are a well known issue. I don’t see how a $124 fine on the parent helps.
And if it’s not stuff that rises to the level of unwanted physical interactions, but just some kids being kinda mean to another kid purely with words, I don’t think the parents should be fined for that either. That’s a kind of social interaction policing I don’t think the government should get involved in.
I think there’s legitimate issues that can come up like, a kid damages someone’s car with his skateboard or something, who pays? Well in that case, can make sense to say it’s the parent, in the current societal context.