Re: RV-6 Fatal Water Ditching

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Bob Walden

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Jun 20, 2024, 9:32:02 AMJun 20
to Hangpilot 1, FalconRV-List
For tip-up canopy RV6, RV7, RV12, RV14:  Good reason to have a canopy release/jettison handle.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 8:50 AM Hangpilot 1 <briane...@gmail.com> wrote:
Happened on the 17th.  Looks like a well-executed water ditching, but the pilot couldn't get out...

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AJ Pope

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Jun 20, 2024, 9:35:21 AMJun 20
to Bob Walden, Hangpilot 1, FalconRV-List
Time permitting I would lock my slider back.
Cheers - AJ

On Jun 20, 2024, at 9:32 AM, Bob Walden <rsw...@gmail.com> wrote:


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Capitalist Pig AKA Bill

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Jun 20, 2024, 9:58:19 AMJun 20
to AJ Pope, Bob Walden, FalconRV-List, Hangpilot 1

I’ve had a tip up on both of my RVs. I wondered the same thing. Even if you have a release handle. I know things get bent when you get a crash. Should you also unlatch your door completely at the top and on the left sideprior to ditching whether on land or in the water? 

Bob Walden

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Jun 20, 2024, 10:08:37 AMJun 20
to Capitalist Pig AKA Bill, AJ Pope, FalconRV-List, Hangpilot 1
Good idea to unlock the tip up canopy before the forced landing/ditching.  That involves unlocking the side latch, and rotating the top handle 90degrees.  The canopy will pop up in the windstream but only a few inches.  Now you have to deal with knocking out the air struts on the side.  I would NOT jettison the canopy inflight.  It would probably take the tail off.  All of this while trying to maintain aircraft control.  One of the leading causes of RV12 accidents is pilots losing control on takeoff when the canopy pops open and trying to pull it back down.  Startle factor big time.   By the way... you won't be able to close the tip up easily.  Fly the airplane first and maintain a/c control.

Justin von Linsowe

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Jun 20, 2024, 10:27:24 AMJun 20
to Bob Walden, Capitalist Pig AKA Bill, AJ Pope, FalconRV-List, Hangpilot 1
On the -4, the canopy is designed to depart the aircraft when opened. It’s held with softer pull rivets holding the piano hinge to the fuse. 

I guess my plan is to sideslip with some right rudder, duck my head, open the canopy and pray it misses the tail. Or… leave the canopy closed. I like my chances with number 1. I just hope I don’t have to ever find out.

J-von

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On Jun 20, 2024, at 10:08 AM, Bob Walden <rsw...@gmail.com> wrote:



Bob Walden

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Jun 20, 2024, 10:35:15 AMJun 20
to Justin von Linsowe, Capitalist Pig AKA Bill, AJ Pope, FalconRV-List, Hangpilot 1
Justin,

One of our RV guys has experience with his unlocked RV-4 canopy opening and departing the aircraft in flight.  Fortunately it just dinged the empennage on its way out.

Jon Fitzsimmons

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Jun 20, 2024, 1:15:46 PMJun 20
to FalconRV-List
There are a bunch of "ops tests" of the RV-4 canopy removal (I know of 4 personally) and none that I'm aware of have caused tail damage.  100% I'm ditching the canopy for water/soft field/possibly flipping off field landing.  Waldo's recommendation of opening and latching open any tip up (or door) is a good one, make sure that thing doesn't jam shut. 

Fitz
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On Jun 20, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Bob Walden <rsw...@gmail.com> wrote:



Thomas Turner

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Jun 20, 2024, 1:54:17 PMJun 20
to Jon Fitzsimmons, FalconRV-List
Here are my rules for a tip over canopy.

1 The handle should be spring loaded to the closed position where you have to hold the handle in the open position when you raise and lower the canopy. 

2 A warning light to show if the canopy is not latched. 

3 The brace that holds the canopy open should be flimsy enough that it will fail if the canopy comes open in flight.

An RV-4 canopy if unlatched will depart the aircraft before you can blink an eye.

Tommy

Thomas Turner

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Jun 20, 2024, 2:00:26 PMJun 20
to Jon Fitzsimmons, FalconRV-List
One more note:

If you think you don’t need these additional safe guards because you would never forget to latch the canopy then I will give you the names of 5 other people that thought the same thing.

Tommy

On Jun 20, 2024, at 1:15 PM, Jon Fitzsimmons <m_w_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

JBMcClanahan

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Jun 20, 2024, 3:17:59 PMJun 20
to falcon...@googlegroups.com
Some while back I conversed at length with a 70+ year old guy who ditched a Glastar (high wing, fixed gear) in Lake Allatoona.

Here's what he said - The instant the wheels touched the water, the airplane flipped over.  The windshield imploded and he found himself upside down under water.

Fortunately he had tightened his shoulder harness.  He was able to unstrap and swim out through the missing windshield.

When he came up, the only thing floating was one wheel pant.  He hung onto that for a while until a guy came by on a jetski and asked him what he was doing out there in the lake.

So I think about that with my fixed gear airplanes and I expect in the event of a ditching to be instantly upside down underwater.

That isn't a good feeling but I guess it's something we have to think about and prepare for.

Thanks for starting the thread and posting the link.  It's a good reminder to think ahead about this possibility as it applies to our gear/cockpit/canopy configurations.

John McClanahan


vic syracuse

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Jun 20, 2024, 3:44:55 PMJun 20
to Thomas Turner, FalconRV-List, Jon Fitzsimmons
One more. We kind of get used to the warning lights being one when we have long taxis or holding a long time to take off. Then we rush the takeoff because tower says cleared for immediate with traffic on final. I put a micro switch in the throttle circuit that arms the door warning lights when the throttle is advanced past ground idle. 

Vic

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Jim Faber

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Jun 20, 2024, 3:55:28 PMJun 20
to vic syracuse, Thomas Turner, FalconRV-List, Jon Fitzsimmons
Ok, Vic, what are your thoughts about ditching an RV-10?

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Michael Baudhuin

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Jun 20, 2024, 3:57:09 PMJun 20
to Jim Faber, vic syracuse, Thomas Turner, FalconRV-List, Jon Fitzsimmons
Best not to. 


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On Jun 20, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Jim Faber <james...@gmail.com> wrote:



Jim Faber

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Jun 20, 2024, 3:59:02 PMJun 20
to Michael Baudhuin, vic syracuse, Thomas Turner, FalconRV-List, Jon Fitzsimmons
Best not land in power lines either. 😉

vic syracuse

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Jun 20, 2024, 4:13:59 PMJun 20
to Jim Faber, Thomas Turner, FalconRV-List, Jon Fitzsimmons
Not having done it yet, I can only speak from guessing. I've certainly thought ALOT about it while over Alaskan waters. :) It's amazing how the mind wanders in the clouds over the water while you are picking up ice, but I digress.

I am aware of a number of in-flight door openings, and have personally inspected some of them afterwards. They all have either been at high power settings (takeoff) or high airspeeds (cruise). All of them left some pretty substantial damage to the horizontal stabilizer, but the aircraft was controllable. My thoughts are that I would like them unlatched as we go into the flare, and we have briefed this. We have straps on the door in order to be able to hold them closed. I think at 65-70 knots, that should be doable. I also think the seats should be placed in the most aft position, and the seat belts tightened until they hurt. 

We also brief that the ELT should be activated while airborne, as well as the SPOT or any other PLB. We also have a heavy duty SOG ax/pointy thing and a knife in order to cut the belts if necessary and break the windows. 

We are leaving for Alaska tomorrow. I hope we don't get to test it.

Vic

Michael Baudhuin

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Jun 20, 2024, 4:15:15 PMJun 20
to Jim Faber, vic syracuse, Thomas Turner, FalconRV-List, Jon Fitzsimmons
I’ll vouch for that. 🤣🤣


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On Jun 20, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Jim Faber <james...@gmail.com> wrote:


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