Sorry to see development paused

[fairlands]

I was looking in to buying Factory Nova about a month ago and was
ready to buy (credit card in hand!) and stopped when i saw no support
any more, and also very put off by 19% sales tax addition at checkout.
As the software is transferred electronically accross borders I
assumed that this tax was a Russian export tax? Or was it a European
VAT tax? At any rate it isnt necessary as it is down to the purchaser
to pay VAT if in Europe and importing from Russia, besides which the
rate of Vat in UK is only 15% anyway . I kind of feel that this extra
19% put a lot of people off buying and may not have helped sales

I think its a real shame development and support stopped as it
potentially is a very good software, and think that proberbly the
lack of sales might be due to not all the people who could use it
knowing about it. The more people who use a software the more
customers there wil be

It would still potentially be suitable for me although Ild would
have to allow for sorting bugs out myself now, or paying to get
sorted, so quite reluctant to pay too much for Factory Nova as Ild
may need to do work or pay to maintain it which might be easier on
another system

To keep it alive I wonder and sugest if Stuffed Guys would consider
selling at much lower price (possibly a third of price) to allow for
the fact there will be no support for the foreseable future.

I would imagine that if this was done right now over the next year
while the economy is not so good many many more people would start
using it as it wiyd make it very attractive and within a couple of
years there would be a vibrant community of hundreds more
contributors and the software would take on a life of its own while
sales were not high enough to allow a full time development team.

In fact it might make Factory Nova in to the best known and mostly
widely used software of ths kind

This to my mind would be a win win situation for everyone. Existing
customers would see a more lively forum with answers to questions and
bugs being fixed or answered by users, the lower cost would make it
far more attractive to companies in this economic climate looking for
a project management system on limited budgets so Stuffed Guys could
get hundreds more users.

In the meantime Stuffed Guys get a reward for the work they have done
in developing it without needing to support it and when the climate
picks up will have a considerably larger client base to sell a future
updated versson in a year or two.

The stark fact is that if they left at current price with no support
in a couple of years there may be no users...give it a special
unsuported "economic downturn" price and its a win for existing users
who get better support from a larger group and more likelyhood of it
being developed further, and its a win for Stuffed Guys as they get
some revenue from it without the support or development issues and
a bigger client base when they are ready to develop a major upgrade

To put my money where my mouth is if they managed to come up with a
special deal Ild have my credit card out and buy unlimited version
immediately and Ild guess Ild be one of many.

[Sergey]

Hey there,

The additional VAT is charged by ShareIt from whom you are actually
purchasing the software. They are in Germany, I'd guess you are in EU
too. And due to EU laws you have to pay the VAT in this case.

ShareIt is re-selling the Stuffed Guys software. Technically, a split
second before you make a purchase from ShareIt, they purchase the
software from Stuffed Guys and then re-sell it to you.

S.

[fairlands]

Hi Sergey

Ah well VAT in UK is only 15% and it depends if its sold as a product
or service. I must have purchased at least $70,000 of PHP programming
services from Ekaterinberg in Russia (and Ive been to Moscow a few
times too, and what a great city!) in the past few years. Because
it was electronically passing through borders and calssed as labour I
was legitamately not liable to pay VAT on import of that. Although I
do need to charge my clients VAT

I like the software very much. I have been looking at a few suitable
solutions and it did tick many of the boxes, the trouble is this: How
many potential customers like me would pay for unlimited version
without branding $579 + 110 tax = $690 for unsupported software which
may or may not ever be developed further?

On the other hand for maybe $200 or $300 I will have my money
directly wired into your bank account sooner than you could blink,
but sadly I guess this wont happen and Ild shortly go with a different
solution!

Im sure that a lot of people would be the same, be happy to buy "as
is" and accept responsibility for solving problems, enhancing,
installing and accepting it may not get developed further if it was a
lower price in the current economic climate.

My point is this would make a growing number of users for the
software without Stuffed Guys needing to use time involved in
supporting it, be extra money for Stuffed Guys (and it might even make
more than they expected) which would otherwise go somewhere else to
another provider.

It would get more users of the software so that in the future its more
viable to get back to it (a larger user base woudl make viable to sell
a later upgrade to ) , and its even very good for existing users as
there is a higher chance of it being developed further plus more
users to answer questions and problems.

Lower special unsuported prices are a win win situation for
everyone, whilst at current prices Im afraid I would fear and be
rather surprised if any licences were sold at all in the next year
for unsuported software where development had stopped. It would be
great way to keep it going for previous clients, leave a doorway open
to future development, an dlike I say I could have maybe $200 or $300
directly wired into your bank account sooner than you could
blink!!!!!!

> > 19% put a lot of people off buying and may not have helped sales- Hide quoted text -
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[Sergey]

Hello again Peter.

First of all, to finish (hopefully) with this VAT discussion. We have
little choice with it. ShareIt works on the re-seller model as all
other such 3rd party services, so you effectively buy from them and
not from us. They are in Germany as I've said, as I understand they
have to charge the VAT if the customer is in EU as well and they
definitely sell software and not the service. We can arrange something
for the money transfer if contacted directly, but ShareIt is really
waaay more convenient for us then any other option. And I always
though that VAT is something that you pay during the purchase, but
then you can reclaim it back (supposedly from the government?).

Secondly, the idea of offering a special downturn prices is actually
appealing to me. However, I am not sure about one thing --

Just a lower price doesn't guarantee more (or any sales). I'd think no
official support and what's more important -- no further development
should be a deal-breaker for most of the people, no matter how low the
price is. And this should be especially true on the B2B market for
which the software is actually targeted.

We did have a number of customers who modified the software for their
needs, if only we could come up with a scheme when a price is lowered,
but external 3rd parties can contribute to the software code, so that
software actually evolves. Make in open source? As in freely available
source code. But first of all, I know that it's very hard to gather
developers community around the product (as hard as any other
community), so making it freely available with the source code doesn't
guarantee in any form that the product would actually start being
developed by external developers.

Not sure yet.

S.

[fairlands]

Hi Sergie

Well the VAT is not so simple in UK as because all my programming is
done overseas we chose to go on to a flat rate scheme so instead of
claiming back VAT we pay a flat rate of 10% of the total but charge at
15%. So in fact cant claim back the VAT which is why I tend to pay
offshore contractors by wire each month

Ild not sugest going down open source route, take years to get a big
enough community

I sugest this : Why not have sales through approved resellers only eh?
That way support is handled by them plus mods etc, you make money and
everyone benefits. Actually if saw a very attractive price and
started using it Ild be happy to do for UK

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[fairlands]

Hi Sergie

The more one thinks about it the more sense it might make for you to
have a number of approved resellers who handled sales, installations,
maintainence and support , possibly one or two in each country
multiplied by twenty or thirty countries and even if they each only
sold a dozen copies a year would give you a hassle free income and
get more regular sales eh? A lower price woudl help in current
economic times though. Lot of companies work like this and it works
because often it helps promote a software better than a just a site on
web. My guess is that with resellers in each country you coudl build a
pretty good network for selling other products too?

If more atractive price of software (to allow cost for my programmers
to do installs, learn it thouroughly and do maintenence) Ild be more
than happy to field in any calls in UK and deal with support, mods
and maintenence to anyone i resold to. I fact I reckon if someone saw
your site and was considering it they are more likeley to phone if
they saw phone number in same country and Ild guess that once a person
phones they are far more likely to buy than if only over internet? I
understand from offshore companies sometimes its as low as one in 28
enquiries turn in to sales , whilst once soomeone phones its nearer 1
in 5 conversions

For sure if was using it I expect Ild sell quite a few licences to
my existing resellers of the other services we do. Im sure that among
your clients you maybe have some in USA, Austalia, France etc so
combined with them all promoting it Ild guess you woudl maybe have
more sales than ever before. Moreover, I suspect that if instead of
selling from your site (which is unlikley to get any new sales in next
year) if instead you had links to approved resellers to contact Ild
suspect that because people would phone people in their own country by
having a dialogue it wil get a higher number of sales?

Seems to me that there is not a lot to loose and potentially a lot to
gain eh? Why not give me an irresistable price to try it ?

[Ludo Jambrich]

I like the resellers idea too, it might work

would be interestined in reseller licence for SK and CZ ;-)
--

Ludo

[andor]

Back to the original post, I have used Project Mangement systems
(commercial and open source) and Factory Nova is probably the best
I've come across so far, certainly better than commercial scripts with
a price tag of US$500 or more... so I am absolutely happy to pay the
fee to Stuffed Guys, and I hope they get back up and going with this
thing.

[Sergey]

Peter,

Very nice idea.

We've definitely lost a number of sales due to absence of phone
support.

So, are you saying, you are willing to promote the software (at least
have a web site of your own for the product), support it via phone and
other means and sell it too?

This all sounds intriguing, I am just trying to understand the details
about how this will work.

For example, it's easy to do when a re-sellers differentiate based on
their native language, someone wants to buy FN in German, we give them
a link to German speaking re-seller. But I am not sure if it is
possible to do the same based on the country. For example, both UK and
US re-seller will have a web site in English, how can we send our
visitor to a proper reseller then? If the resellers promote the
software themselves then.. still not clear. Are they competing for the
same keywords (compete with each other and with us too) on Google? Or
promotion should be strictly centrally, by us.

And finally, although that's a pretty nice idea for potentially
offloading support to partners, I am still not sure it will help right
now, when the products are not developed any further. The main
development should be done by us, otherwise this whole model doesn't
make sense.

[fairlands]

Hello Sergey

Yes if we were using it Ild be happy to be providing, training support
and installs and help with sales. Well, at least in my country Ild be
pretty good

I feel that its the type of thing is best done by people in each
country and its sometimes easier to sell if clients can visit an
office and discuss and can sometimes be part of a sale for another
product. For example someone sees a client to make a website and they
ask what project management system client use and if none say why not
have this and small upsell on another sale

Besides it might strike luck somewhere in the world and be the case
that this kind of approach would might lead to getting bigger
corporate sales of larger multiple licences because partners might
identify where the software could be customised to that market among
their existing clients

So in principle it seems a good solution all round.

It is potentially good software which is maybe not as well known as
it deserves and it would keep it alive. I do know if I left my
business for a year when i got back there wouldnt be a business and if
the software was left till the world economy picked up its likely it
would be "
mission impossible" to resurrect it. Even if it made only a few sales
during this period people would see it as still alive and consider it
when the economy picked up whilst if they saw it was dead they wont
look again. Ever.

It would be easy to do. All you would need to do is change shopping
cart to a page of links of authorised sales partners who customers can
approach for installation, sales, support and training. Send out an
email to all existing customers inviting them to become authorised
sales partners and you could potentially have built on the back of
this software a worldwide network for selling anything which may be
more valuable than the software itself. Think of all the other unknown
software in Russia eh?

For resellers in non English Speaking countries they might prefer to
make a localised website and localise the software, but they would
know what they need to help sales

It might be helpful if the resellers/partners had a private forum to
share information and it might be the case that the ordering system
could be done without share its weird tax additions but other than
that it coudl be set up in an afternoon before its to late to
resurect

When a customer contacted a reseller they might charge different costs
for it depending on labour costs for support in that country so it
might be best to sell only through resellers as you are not able to
support it at present. It will make no difference to you as still the
licences would be purchased from you for each copy, but you neednt be
glued to your computer answering enquiries and could take time off

I think that if you emailed all your existing clients with an
invitation to become partners you will get enough to do it, especially
if you said you would direct them from your site to them for sales.

In terms of development I think that some would see opportunities to
add plugins for local markets so it would be developed further. I can
think of software I have made which I could integrate into it and I
imagine other partners would see same kind of opportunities. There is
no limit to the number of developments a software like this can have
to be perfect and there is no such thing as fully developed software
as it will always need development. Nothing is ever completely
perfect. I saw in it that for me to use Ild anticipate adding modules
mayeb for some of my software or sugar crm

Overall having put so much energy into a software like this its a
shame to totally give up when it can be avoided without any stress
and leave the way open to some possibilities in the future

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[fairlands]

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[txttrans]

Hello Sergey

We've got to get you back on this product!

The basis of it is awesome - that's why we bought it after months of
trawling the web for Project Management tools...so we bought it from
you.

I saw, somewhere that someone was volunteering for a sum to do some
further development with you to allow exporting of the data....so my
sales guys can export prospect lists, gant charts etc...

I'd be happy to chip in for that development. Anyone else?

Also...quick plug. My company is hiring at the moment - especially
people with Web 2.0 and mobile skills..finding it hard to find the
right talent.


Russell

On Jan 13, 3:06 am, Sergey <eyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

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