hidden parameters?

[everyman]

version 3.5.3
something I came across while comparing photofit with manual
adjustments.
1st I use photofit to audo create a face based on a picture, change
texture to none, set all asymmetric shape to zero
2nd I open a new window of facegen, starting from scratch, and copy
all the values of shape and color from the photofit window

I tried this several times and I realized I can't get the manually
created face to look like the photofit face even though almost all the
values are within 10% difference. I thought this was just a color only
thing, but then I couldn't get shapes to copy over either.

poly counts and vertices counts are the same. morphs are all set to
zero

this is frustrating, apparently there is a way to make rounder,
shorter and flatter face without sacrificing chin and jaw adjustments,
and only photofit can make create a face like this.

[FaceGen Guru]

You are correct. In fact, the parameters that directly define the face
are all hidden.

The reason for this is they are statistically created (through a
technique called principal component analysis) and they don't really
correspond to anything; each one affects the whole face in varying
ways.

So we created controls on top of those that correspond to more
intuitive concepts.

However there are limitations to this approach, and keeping the
controls spatially and conceptually isolated is one of them.

We intend to improve this in the next version of FaceGen.

Best wishes,

[everyman]

I think it would be nice to simply have a tab called "advanced
controls" and let user screw around with it.

for general shape control though, I really need a way to move jaw
upwards and some inner cheek adjustments. I find it annoying that
moving mouth up and down can affect the shape so much even though I
was just trying to copy a real person's mouth position.

in many ways facegen is the leading program in creating realistic
faces because each parameter is interdependent. it helps people like
me who doesn't have backgorund in facial proportion knowledge. however
its limiting restrictions in adjusting parameters really frustrates
me. I couldn't explore facial structure because the face actually
looks too similar unless big changes are made to make it look
monstrous.

It's probably easier to just take a snap shot and bring it to
photoshop to create the face structure I want and then photofit with
facegen, but I shouldn't need to go through all that if the options
are already available.

[everyman]

another thing that irks me is eye control. I have little control over
the depth of eye except by changing forehead, but the changing the
forehead can easily make the face look unattractive. I really don't
want to rely on photofit because it will copy over all the features of
a face that even the shape options won't be able to change because as
you mentioned the options for those are actually hidden.

[everyman]

I think there's also a fundamental difference in how eyes are shaped
between ethnicity that can't be managed by simply changing orientation
and size, facegen only lets you deal with this with colors but if I
want to build a face from scratch without putting on colors 1st, I
will notice the racial discrepancy

[everyman]

this hidden parameter thing is really hindering my progress.

apparently I can create oval head much easier in non-european
appearance, but the eye shape I want is specifically in european
appearance
this is something I cannot adjust in shape option tab. only race
adjustment can do this.

I am really hoping version 4 will correct this problem. these hidden
parameters need to be made available so that generated face isn't
confined by the predefined race settings that doesn't really reflect
the demography.