weights #2401
The Weights Mailing List
Re: BULGARIAN TRAINING - HIGH INTENSITY LIFTING
by Eric Burkhardt <embu...@uci.edu>
outdoor workouts
by Enzo S Torino <enzo....@bms.com>
POWERLIFTING & WEIGHTLIFTING
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
Re: Stretch marks
by Enzo S Torino <enzo....@bms.com>
Supplements that work for me!
by Supapecs <supe...@softhome.net>
THEBIG SIX LIFTS
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
Re: Triple H
by Aaron Walters <phatk...@hotmail.com>
Re: Average Bench Press?
by <Tega...@aol.com>
Back exercises?
by buffy10440 <buffy...@mediaone.net>
Re: BULGARIAN TRAINING - HIGH INTENSITY LIFTING
by Keith Hobman <kho...@sk.sympatico.ca>
NO NEW SPORTS GROUPS !!!
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
lateral knee instability
by Rod Green <Rod....@latrobe.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: BULGARIAN TRAINING - HIGH INTENSITY LIFTING
From: "Eric Burkhardt" <embu...@uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:04:57 -0700
Mel wrote...
<<
Let us for a moment move away from the world of sport and examine the
world of manual labour. Here we often witness working folk lifting,
pushing, carrying, throwing and otherwise handling heavy loads day after
day with little evidence of injury if some basic rules of good technique,
adequate rest and accidents management are followed. Certainly, there are
many overuse injuries in this world, but the point here is that the
experienced manual labourer is able to work daily with very demanding loads
without breaking down.
>>
Several years ago, a well known WL coach in my area started experimenting
w/a Bulgarianlike approach to training. 6 days/week, fairly high intensity
and high volume - ave intensity was probably between 82 and 87% with
frequent attempts at 90 - 100% and some weeks had as many as 700 reps.
BTW, the only thing that was considered a rep were lifts above 75% in only
the following exercises SN, PSN, C&J, PC&J, J, PP, SNPull, CLPull, RDL,
BSQ, FSQ, GM. Things like overhead presses and hyperextensions were not
included in the volume calculation.
My first reaction to all of this was that it was crazy, but when the
results of all of his lifters started going through the roof, I became
curious and decided to join this WL Club. Although general fatigue and
joint soreness was much higher in the beginning, the progress I made was
worth it. I continue to try and maintain such a schedule, and notice that
my strength suffers with less frequent and intense training.
It is my opinion that most people who strength train in this country are so
brainwashed by this notion of resting at least 1 day between workouts.
Then Mel said....
<<
6. Are many of the limits to using heavier training loads more in the
mind than the body? Does the fact that we show increasing uncertainty as
we move closer to our current 1RM limit us more than the physiological
factors
<<
Here is where I think you hit the nail on the head Mel. I think the main
reason why more frequent intense training may not catch on in this country
is that people are afraid to commit to that kind of work. The notion of
HAVING to rest a day between workouts is very appealing to the average
trainee.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: outdoor workouts
From: Enzo S Torino <enzo....@bms.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:12:13 -0700
FYI......
*************************
Bored With the Gym?
More and more Americans are fleeing their health clubs in search
of fresher, outdoor workouts.
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1676.51320
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: POWERLIFTING & WEIGHTLIFTING
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:14:27 -0700
This contribution submitted to other groups may also be of interest here,
even though it repeats what all types of lifter know anyway!
With the recent discussion on various Internet lists of what the
differences are between weightlifters and weight trainers, it is relevant
to comment on the common confusion that reigns concerning Weightlifting and
Powerlifting. These are two other competitive aspects of what has been
termed "The Iron Game", but not many of the average public and scientific
community knows the differences between the two sports. There are even
many professionals such as aerobics (group fitness instructors) and
personal trainers who do not know the difference, largely because they have
never attended or witnessed events held in either of these sports.
In brief, Weightlifting is an Olympic sport in which athletes compete
against one another in weight classes in two events: the two-handed Snatch
and the two-handed Clean & Jerk. Powerlifting is an international sport
(though not yet an Olympic sport) in which competitors compete in weight
classes using three lifts: Squat, Bench Press and Deadlift. According to
international regulations, both men and women are permitted to compete in
both sports. In both sports only three attempts are permitted at each lift
and the "Total" is obtained by adding all of the separate lifts together.
In terms of absolute weight lifted, powerlifters lift much more weight than
weightlifters, largely because the technical lifts in weightlifting have to
be completed in a standing position with the load above the head.
So, the issue often arises: who is stronger, the Weightlifter or the
Powerlifter? First of all, it is entirely inappropriate to make such a
generalised comparison, because each type of lifter may be stronger in any
given lift. Thus, a Powerlifter almost always will bench press or squat
more than a Weightlifter in the same bodyweight class, although a
Weightlifter almost always will lift more above the head. Even to compare
the different types of lifter in the squat, an exercise that both of them
use, is fraught with problems, since the Powerlifting squat is essentially
one in which one does not descend lower than thighs parallel to the floor,
whereas the squat in Weightlifting (as used in the Snatch and Clean & Jerk)
is a full "deep knee bend".
If any type of lifter or bodybuilder wishes to compete on equal terms,
well, today a very popular event is the typical "Strong Man" competition,
which does not necessarily involving cast iron weights, but everyday
objects like rocks, vehicles and tyres. Ironically, this sport attracts
far greater TV time than either of the two international lifting sports.
For anyone who is interested in knowing more about the training and events
in this sort of sport, as well as both lifting sports and Highland Games,
the following user group often offers very useful discussions:
http://deepsquatter.com/strength/subscribe.htm
Another issue arises in competition, namely deciding which Weightlifter or
Powerlifter at a competition or over an extended period is the strongest.
For instance, it is well known that a lifter who is twice as heavy as
another cannot lift twice the load. For many years, this sort of decision
has been made on the basis of equations which have attempted to relate
accurately the load lifted to the bodymass of the individual. The earliest
equations (all variations of the mathematical two-thirds power law) of
more than 50 years ago have been replaced by more modern ones which offer a
far more accurate fit to the available data.
Thus, a few of us have carefully researched decades of information and
produced parabolic, power law, exponential and other regressions that are
now used in competitions and research papers. For those who may be
interested in the types of equation used in the different events, consult
the following websites:
http://www.qwa.org/stats/pwrrankings.asp (the Siff rankings)
http://www.geocities.com/aedziepak/strength/formulas.htm (many formulae)
http://www.isu.edu/~andesean/wform.htm (several formulae)
Some of the relevant research and historical background underlying these
formulae may be found in these references:
Siff M C (1985) The Scientific Relationship between strength and bodymass
NSCA Journal (now J of Appl Sports Sci Res) 7(4): 69
Siff M C (1988) Biomathematical Relationship between strength and bodymass
S.A. Journal for Research in Sport, Physical Ed & Recr 11(l): 81-92
Siff MC & Verkhoshansky YV (1999) Supertraining" Ch 3.3.5. This
chapter also provides relationships between strength and height, strength
and age, strength and gender, as well as the variation of strength over
time.
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Stretch marks
From: Enzo S Torino <enzo....@bms.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:14:49 -0700
OK, don't laugh..but what about oiling up prior to a training session?
Would that help the elastin in your skin?? By the way, i've never done
it....i'm simpply thinking outloud :o)
~E
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Supplements that work for me!
From: Supapecs <supe...@softhome.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:15:13 -0700
Hey fellow lifters, I just wanted to share with you a couple of
supplements that have worked for me. Dymetadrine Extreme by AST gives
me an incredible mental and physicaly boost. It alone adds 5-10 pounds
on any exercise. I only take 1 or 2, 40 minutes before training (which
is 3-4 a week) and I never drink coffee so that my body does not get
used to the caffeine. Another is Tribulus Terrestris by Twinlab. This
is one is a natural testosteron booster (tells your body to produce
more, unlike Andro, which is converted to testosterone when ingested) I
gain great muscle size, hardness and definition on this one. I'm 6'2,
230lbs and have experimented with dosages and have come up with, on
training days, take 1 in the morning, 2 before a workout and 2 right
before bed. On non-traning days I take 1 in the morning and 2 before
bed. The bottle says take 1-2 a day but at my size that is not enough.
Try to gauge from my dosage and apply it to your body size and
experiment. If your workouts have become stagnant I suggest these two
to give a kick in the butt, and of course Whey protein immediately after
a workout! Hope this helps!
CoLiN
http://www8.50megs.com/pumpin/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: THEBIG SIX LIFTS
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:15:44 -0700
With all of this discussion about some scientists not knowing the
differences between Weightlifting, Powerlifting and Bodybuilding or having
the courage to admit that they don't, it is an interesting exercise to
compile a list of the top 5 or 6 weight training exercises in the Iron
Game. What about this selection (given in alphabetic order)?
Bench Press
Clean & Jerk
Deadlift
Standing Press
Squat
Snatch
Does anything in the world of weights compare with this list of demanding
inventions of physical exercise? Do any other exercises warrant inclusion
in this erudite company of the above "Big Six of Lifting"? Don't suggest
any variations of these exercises like limited range pulls, box squats,
push presses, good mornings, 'Romanian' deadlifts, and so forth - consider
these simply as variations on each major theme.
If we consider organising a tough all round competition of just three lifts
drawn from Powerlifting and Weightlifting, what about this combination?
These lifts are given in the order which I would suggest for any actual
competition, as guided by the finding by Russian scientists that high speed
exercises should precede slower exercises.
Clean & Jerk (or Push Press)
Squat
Bench Press
Over to you.
Mel Siff
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Triple H
From: "Aaron Walters" <phatk...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:16:52 -0700
I rememeber about a year and a half ago Triple H was rarely shown on Raw.
A few months later he turns heel and walks out larger than ever. You don't
get that big that fast with out a little help if you know what I mean. If
you were 17 then yeah you can gain a lot of muscle because of high T
levels.
HHH is either late twenties or early thirties. On top of that all
wrestlers train often to keep in shape to do all of those glorified moves.
I once heard Stone Cold Steve Austin say that wrestlers work about 250 days
a year. That's a lot considering that they travel all over the US having a
new show in a new city every time they work. And diet must be hard to
maintain as well. You just don't see a wrestler gain that much weight
taking a suppliment like creatine or any of the andros for that matter. I
have friends who wrestle(the real stuff), play football, powerlift and even
plain old bodybuilding where the goal is to gain as much muscle as
possible.
We all agreed when we saw him turn heel(we watch it religiously) that it
must be steroids.
Phatkorean
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Average Bench Press?
From: Tega...@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 01:17:57 -0700
tough question to answer. Depends on if you're talking about those that
don't work out or those that have been working out for a long period of
time. I'm 6'1" tall and i weigh 185 pounds. My bench press max is around
245 but i've been working out for almost three years. The average bench
press for someone your size who doesn't work out is probably around 135 to
150 pounds i would guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Back exercises?
From: buffy10440 <buffy...@mediaone.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 01:18:16 -0700
I was wonderin what are some good back exercises besides lat pull down
and the roman chair...thank you for you help and time.
John Armstrong
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: BULGARIAN TRAINING - HIGH INTENSITY LIFTING
From: Keith Hobman <kho...@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 01:18:31 -0700
Eric wrote,
>
>Several years ago, a well known WL coach in my area started experimenting
>w/a Bulgarianlike approach to training. 6 days/week, fairly high intensity
>and high volume - ave intensity was probably between 82 and 87% with
>frequent attempts at 90 - 100% and some weeks had as many as 700 reps.
>BTW, the only thing that was considered a rep were lifts above 75% in only
>the following exercises SN, PSN, C&J, PC&J, J, PP, SNPull, CLPull, RDL,
>BSQ, FSQ, GM. Things like overhead presses and hyperextensions were not
>included in the volume calculation.
Any chance of getting this program Eric?
I've experimented with 'Bulgarian' training and got tremendous results from
it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NO NEW SPORTS GROUPS !!!
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 01:19:33 -0700
On 8/10/00, CHRISTIAN PERRY<christi...@key3media.com> wrote:
Mcs...@aol.com:
>
We have started a new Internet discussion group devoted to all physical and
mental aspects of sports, strength and fitness science and training, as
well as injury and health management.
>
<<
Funny, I thought this list was devoted to just the same. Or do you now
consider it simply an outlet to spam us with info on your own creation?
>>
*** May I presume that you have written similar welcoming letters to every
new weights and fitness discussion group that comes on line (and there are
many of them)? If you were a customer of a given supermarket chain , would
you write similar letters of objection to every new supermarket chain that
opened up? Would you write similar letters to any new school, university,
sports team or any other human venture that opens up?
Many of us belong to several such weights, fitness and health groups
because we find that each one complements the others, extends our horizons
and expands our circle of friends with similar interests. Do you sincerely
believe that there should be only one such discussion group in this field?
How on earth can you evaluate our group
(http://www.egroups.com/group/supertraining) without ever having been
involved with it?
Come to think of it, over the years I cannot recall noticing that you have
contributed very much information to the WeightsNet list. Maybe you were
just waiting for the right occasion to share something really positive and
helpful, just as you now did?
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: lateral knee instability
From: Rod Green <Rod....@latrobe.edu.au>
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 01:18:47 -0700
I have a chronic lateral knee instability problem - I have very little
lateral collateral ligament if any! I would like to try and compensate for
this by improving the strength of the musculotendinous structures around
the joint. Specifically, I am hoping that increasing the strength of
muscles associated with the iliotibial band may help. I wonder whether hip
extension to work on gluteus maximus and hip abduction to improve the
strength of tensor fascia lata is going to work. Can anyone suggest any
functional exercise(s) that may be useful?
thanks
Rod Green
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