weights #2393
The Weights Mailing List
Re: HIT paradoxes...
by Mark <mat...@Swales.com>
knee and thigh pain
by Shimm, David <David...@Centura.Org>
Re: deadlift problems, hip pain
by Martin S. Pavelka <Martin_...@urmc.rochester.edu>
Help!
by Michelle R. Cook <shel...@juno.com>
Re: Bulgarian Training
by Thomas Incledon <hps...@mediaone.net>
lumbar curve while bench pressing?
by Mikki <tr...@west.net>
Re: Left Hip Pain
by Shimm, David <David...@Centura.Org>
Re: Deadlift Problems. Help Please.
by Keith Hobman <kho...@sk.sympatico.ca>
Re: Mel's NIT comments
by Martin S. Pavelka <Martin_...@urmc.rochester.edu>
Re: music.....
by Jonn D. Abshire <miste...@musclemail.com>
Re: Ntl Weight Control Registry; I'm 6 year member 130 lb weight loss
by ERIC TURLINGTON <ERICTUR...@email.msn.com>
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Subject: Re: HIT paradoxes...
From: "Mark" <mat...@Swales.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:39:33 -0700
Mel said this...
>>workout. Many average folk tend to prefer 8-10 sets of 2-3 reps with brief
>>rest intervals between these more intensive sets, especially if only about
>>4 exercises are done per session three times a week. How on earth can
>>anyone claim that an 8-12 exercise program using over 100 reps in total is
>>a low volume scheme? Simple arithmetic shows that this just is not true.
..................................
>>or safety benefits over the typical lifting style workout of 5-8 sets of
>>1-3 rep training (with only 4 exercises)?
my question is this, who in the "volume game" only uses 1-3 reps per set?
below are 2 recent arm routines from Mens Fitness showing a minimum of 72
reps to a maximum of 108 reps JUST FOR THE BICEPS...
Routine One
Standing barbell curl:3 sets, 8-12 reps
Dumbbell concentration curl: 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Seated hammer curl: 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Routine Two
Seated incline curl: 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Barbell preacher curl: 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Reverse cable curl: 3 sets, 8-12 reps
i'm no expert, i only know what works for me...my full body HIT routine
consists of 5 exercises, performed one set to failure, every third day, has
60 reps total and can wipe me out in 15 minutes (home gym, in basment, no
waiting) and i have seen more increases in strength and size than all my
previous muscle rag workouts combined...
Mark in MD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: knee and thigh pain
From: "Shimm, David" <David...@Centura.Org>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:39:58 -0700
I am a 47 y/o 155# male who has been lifting for fun(?), rather than
competition for many years, and have the scars to prove it (arthroscopic
surgery for rotator cuff x2, Mumford operation for acromioclavicular
dysfunction x2). Fortunately, currently I'm benching as much as I ever
could, but have been having recent problems with my legs.
In the past I have been able to squat >300# x 10 reps w/ reasonably good
form, but over the past 1-2 years, I have been having pain and tenderness
at the superior pole of the patella and the inferior 1/4 of the quadriceps,
which is particularly uncomfortable going down stairs. I've tried
industrial doses of naproxyn and ice, without any longstanding relief.
Laying off for several months seems to help, but the problem only picks up
again when I resume.
Any thoughts or advice?
David Shimm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: deadlift problems, hip pain
From: "Martin S. Pavelka" <Martin_...@urmc.rochester.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:38:09 -0700
Christopher: about the deadlift problem--I had a similar problem awhile
back. I had some pain in my lower back on the left side after squats. In
my case the pain was caused by a subtle shift in my back set that resulted
from me looking down to check my form. I was working on my stance and would
check to see how my knees were tracking over my feet--I didn't realize that
the act of looking down like that during the lift caused me to shift my
back ever so slightly--for some reason the movement of my head resulted in
a change in my back set on the left side. Once I realized this and made
sure I was looking forward and upwards, I didn't have any problems with the
back. Maybe you're glancing down during part of the deadlift and
experiencing the same thing.
Greg: about the hip pain--Ditto here, but with deadlifts....I had right hip
soreness with standard straight bar deadlifts--once I switched to a trap
bar--no problem. A big difference between the two types of deadlifts for
me was that with the trap bar, I had a narrower stance. I've felt a little
hip pain if I use a very wide stance in squats. Botom line for me was that
a narrower stance is better for my hips--for the squat my regular stance
isn't too narrow though-maybe yours is very wide. It is also seems like you
might need more flexibility as well. I also find that I need a decent
amount of warm-up time for deads and squats--we're the same age, so we may
have the same amount of creakiness ;-) Why you're experiencing it on one
side is odd--might be a mechanical thing with your body--see my response
above.
BTW I have two friends who had hip replacments before the age of 32....not
w8t related though.
-Marty
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Help!
From: "Michelle R. Cook" <shel...@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:38:43 -0700
Do you know where I can find a truck pulling harness? My boss
participates in strong man competitions, and needs to have a harness to
pull trucks, tractor trailors and other things. Can you please help me?
Thank You
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bulgarian Training
From: "Thomas Incledon" <hps...@mediaone.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:37:48 -0700
Eric:
Some additional thoughts occurred to me as I was driving home last night.
If I recall correctly, besides the number of training days, there were some
other factors of my training that bear mentioning. One was that I spent a
good deal of my training at percentages over 90%. This was most likley too
high, too often. Recently, I incorporated planned recovery weeks. I never
did this before and the effect it had on my progress was very impressive. I
never did this before. I realize that these factors can also impact the
final results of the training process. I am working on a periodization
program for a strongman competition next year. Armed with what I know now,
who nows what will happen!
later,
Tom
Thomas Incledon, MS, RD, LD, LN, CSCS, NSCA-CPT
Adjunct Professor of Kinesiology and Nutrition
Math, Science, and Technology
Nova Southeastern University
and
Research Scientist
Department of Physiology and Biophysics
Department of Exercise and Sport Science
University of Miami
Mailing address:
619 NW 90th Terrace
Plantation, FL 33324
954-577-0689
hps...@mediaone.net
Journal of Performance Enhancement
http://members.tripod.com/JPE_Sportscience/
Coming soon: Performance Nutrition Newsletter!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: lumbar curve while bench pressing?
From: "Mikki" <tr...@west.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:39:33 -0700
Is it considered proper technique to have the small of your back off
the bench while pressing. If you keep you butt on the bench but curve
your lumbar anteriorly as much as possible is this considered good form
TIA, Mikki
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Left Hip Pain
From: "Shimm, David" <David...@Centura.Org>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:39:14 -0700
> From: gw...@att.net[SMTP:gw...@att.net]
>
> I've been trying to squat deeper lately, dropping
> the weight I use in order to accomodate form. Last
> week, my left hip started sporadically giving me
> sharp pain while walking, often while turning, but
> with no special stress or load. The hip has never
> given me a problem during or immediately after a
> leg workout. However, I have noted tightness in my
> lower back immediately after squating.
> Other leg activity candidates include
> seated leg extensions, leg curls, lunges and
> standing calf raises plus cardio on an exercise bike.
Might be SI joint dysfunction.
A good sports oriented physical therapist, and even some chiropractors, can
diagnose and work on this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Deadlift Problems. Help Please.
From: Keith Hobman <kho...@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:38:27 -0700
Christopher wrote,
>
>I'm having problems with the lower left side of my back after I do my
>deads. Can anybody offer any insight into what may be causing this?
>
>Maybe a better question is, what is the correct way to perform the
>deadlift? I must be doing something wrong.
>
>I start with the bar on the floor, my knees bent, chest out, back
>straight, then drag the bar up along my legs till I'm up all the way,
>then lower the bar in the same manner. Is this incorrect?
>
>Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately making a diagnosis of someone's technique over email is a
little problematic. But you sound like you may be pulling with a round
back.
I'm assuming this is a conventional pull and not sumo. In a conventional
pull envision the bar as immobile (ie. welded in place or something) and
try and drive your feet through the platform. This helps keep the bar in
your centre of gravity and focuses on lifting with a flat back as much as
possible.
When setting up try and get the chest out and the shoulders back. However,
don't drag the bar. Explode upwards. One last thing - make sure the triceps
are locked so you don't tear a bicep tendon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mel's NIT comments
From: "Martin S. Pavelka" <Martin_...@urmc.rochester.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 06:53:44 -0700
Dear Mel,
I'd like to comment a bit on your recent post concerning HIT and the
contradictions you pointed out. As usual it was a very well written and
thought-out post. I agree with you on the subject of strength versus
size--however, (IMHO) I think you may have a partial misconception about
HIT or abbreviated work. I think the part of your post that shows this is:
>Where does HIT offer any time saving
>or safety benefits over the typical lifting style workout of 5-8 sets of
>1-3 rep training (with only 4 exercises)?
I've been following the HIT ideas and that of Stuart McRoberts over at
Hardgainer for about 2 years now. To me HIT, etc., are not deriding the
"5-8 sets/1-3 rep training with only 4 exercises" approach as you describe
it. Rather, they deride the very high volume bodybuilding routines that
are very common in gyms. The "typical lifting style" you described above
may be "typical" for high level strength athletes but not the general
public. You did point out, however: " Maybe HIT folk can criticise typical
high rep, many set training of many bodybuilders as high volume training,
but that sort of training has little in common with lifting or sport
specific strength training." OK, perhaps for high-level training of
strength athletes this would be true, but I would submit to you that the
majority of average folks who want to get in shape, get bigger,
whatever-would first try following the higher volume BB routines, not the
"lifting or sport-specific training" routines--the shorter routines that
you mentioned--in practice we're talking about the genetically average
person who wants to get in shape.
The HIT style routines you mentioned do include several exercises but
they're only done about twice a week. In fact, the HIT website has another
routine wherein the exercises are split over two days. This is essentially
what I do. Twice a week training in this style did for me at the age of 33
what I couldn't do in my twenties with the high volume approach.
I've subscribed to the HITdigest mailing list for about a year now--it
seems that many in the abbreviated training crowd sticks to a much shorter
routine, centered around squats, deadlifts, a pressing movement, dips or
bench, chins or rows. I think that the longer routines you described from
the HIT website were some of the original workouts--a little long in the
reps department, but compared to the type of BB program one might
follow-say four workouts per week and having (for example) an arm/chest day
where one does 3 sets 10 each for two tricep exercises, two bicep exercises
and 3 chest exercises, one can rack up a very large number of reps (much
more that the HIT routines you described). It is this kind of very
high-volume, 2 hour workout-type training methods that the HIT and
hardgainer groups try to discourage. Some "abbreviated" folks are known to
do 5 sets of 5 in their workouts, so, like anything else, HIT is variable
in practice. As for the safety issue and the warm-ups, there is
considerable debate on that--some HIT people cycle lower rep with higer rep
sets, some people use warm up sets, some don't. The core of it is to train
hard, infrequently without doing very high volume work. I realize that part
of your arguements have been on the definition of "hard workouts" and so
this description may be lacking. I just thought my interpretation of HIT
might be helpful to you.
Regards,
Marty
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: music.....
From: "Jonn D. Abshire" <miste...@musclemail.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 06:54:51 -0700
If you like rock/metal, Korn's self-titled album, which happens to be their
first, is the way to go if you are not ofended by profanity. Korn seems to
get lighter and lighter as the put out more albums, but I have been a fan
from before many and do not plan to change my positive thoughts about their
music(not necessarily them because I am not nto drugs and definately do not
advocate their lifestyles).
I also like Tool's Anima and Undertow albums, and I plan to buy the perfect
circle cd (Tool's old singer formed a new band). However, once again, they
do not shy away from the language if you catch what I am saying. Track 13
of Anima rules though.
Offsping's Smash album rules as do those of:
slipknot(saw them in concert with metallica, slayer, sevendust, sepultura
and other metal bands in Giants Stadium like 2 weeks ago),
Crow City of angels CD, Graivity Kills...and others
Hey, what the hell are we doing talking about music. Isn't this a lifting
list?
Uxo, I can't send mails to your gymtrainer account. You gotta resend me an
email.
Later.......abs
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Subject: Re: Ntl Weight Control Registry; I'm 6 year member 130 lb weight
loss
From: "ERIC TURLINGTON" <ERICTUR...@email.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 06:55:51 -0700
I to was heavy my whole childhood.But a year and a half ago I decided to do
something about it.I was up to 310lbs and with in 7-8 months I lost 90 plus
pounds. I went from over 40% body fat to 13% body fat.I am still at almost
13% but I now way 226.I look like a whole new person and feel just awesome.
I have kept the weight off and will never go back.I eat about 3200 cal. a
day but exercise 5-6 days a week.I would like to add more muscle and size
but feel I have reached a plateau.My question is how to do this without
adding fat.Am I trying to walk a fine line here.Thanks
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