weights #2148
The Weights Mailing List
Re: PLACEBOS & SCIENCE
by Corey G. <cg...@interaccess.com>
STRONGEST EVER?
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
Re: Tanita scales
by Neil Simpson <neil.s...@virgin.net>
Re: Thermadrine/Ephedrine
by Neil Simpson <neil.s...@virgin.net>
TRAINING FREQUENCY & MEMORIES
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
Re: tuna recipes
by sheilah <shei...@islanderis.net>
ULTRA HIT?
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
Why did you start training
by <Dom...@aol.com>
Re: Squats - I need help
by Keith Gillespie <kei...@qlm.com>
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Subject: Re: PLACEBOS & SCIENCE
From: "Corey G." <cg...@interaccess.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:29:50 -0700
And with this great reply I have no more to say except for one thing.
Personality attacks are not always bad. If we had done this with the
President Clinton many years ago we never would have let him in office.
Often we must dig deep into someone's personality by attacking them either
intentionally or unintentionally to really know who they are. If I
offended anyone I am sorry.
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Subject: STRONGEST EVER?
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:31:29 -0700
Periodically there is discussion about great feats of strength and some of
you may have come across the alleged one-arm lift of 7063lbs (3210kg) off
rack by the guru Sri Chinmoy (no, no, not like our resident fitness gurus,
but a real life guru guru!).
Announcements and discussions about this amazing claim may be found at the
following websites:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/5810/lifts.html
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=225701352
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=226399770
http://www.rickross.com/groups/srichinmoy.html
http://www.bergen.com/region/gurutf19981103.htm
http://www.indiainnewyork.com/iny112098/Panorama/Fit.html
http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~rwynar/SriChinmoy.html
http://www.lehigh.edu/dmd1/public/www-data/jim.html
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=260653959
The following article identifies the role that lever machines can play in
achieving apparently remarkable feats of strength:
http://www.outsidemag.com:80/magazine/1096/9610febls.html
What interests me enormously is the fact that, despite the load of over
3000lbs on either side of that extended dumbbell that Chinmoy is 'lifting',
the bar shows no deflection or bending, despite being about 12ft long
(according to scaled measurements which I made from the photo of this lift
being made by the 5' 7" guru). At least the guru could have emulated what
the muscle magazines do when bodybuilders pose with weights (they use bent
bars packed with hollow plastic discs).
This website provides a photograph of the Chinmoy lift:
http://www.rickross.com/groups/srichinmoy.html
Since the thickness of the bar appears to be around 1.5", it is
inconceivable that such a heavy weight was actually being raised by the
central support of an arm, especially since the entire length of the bar
remains parallel to the crossbar of its overhead supporting frame. After
all, we have seen how much a bar bends during a miserable little squat of
only 1000lbs!
Of course, Sri Chinmoy will be just as evasive as our resident gurus to
produce real proof of his claims, but in his case, his disciples will
simply repeat the time-worn guru-refrain, which runs something like this:
"Gurus do not have to prove anything - their aim is spiritual enlightenment
and such trivial physical challenges are meaningless and silly". Maybe he
should simply emulate President Clinton and ask "What exactly do you mean
by 'lift'?".
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Tanita scales
From: "Neil Simpson" <neil.s...@virgin.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:33:38 -0700
>From: Barrett Marum <J...@kmesa.com>
>Subject: tribex 500
>
>On a bit of a different note, I was in SF yesterday and had the chance to
>go to Max Muscle. If you are ever in the city I would highly reccommend
>that you give the place a visit. While there I used one of those tanita bf
>scales. I had used one at a sporting goods store before, but this one was
>different because it had an athlete mode. Clearly this is more appropriate
>for the bodybuilder. The one at the sporting goods store told me that I had
>23% bf, and this one told me that I had 13%. From looking at pics of others
>who have tested their bf and from crude caliper measurements, this is
>around what I would have expected to see. Anybody out there have an opinion
>on these things? I'm thinking of buying one and liked it so far. I seem to
>remember hearing that water plays a role in how they determine bf %. I'm
>thinking of loading on creatine, wonder if that will affect the accuracy of
>the tests.
I have used the Tanita b/f scales on a number of occasions. The third time
I used them, both my PT and I knew that I had dropped b/f BUT the scales
showed an increase. At the time I was taking Twinlab Diet Fuel and on the
morning I was measured I was well dehydrated. My PT rang Tanita and
explained the scenario. They admitted that whilst the scales were
"generally accurate" there are a lot of factors that could distort the
results; 2 of these being the subjects state of hydration and any
thermogenic substances consumed by the subject.
Enough said ?
Neil
JPE web page: http://members.tripod.com/mprevost
Check out URB AT http://www.theministryoffitness.com/urb.htm
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Subject: Re: Thermadrine/Ephedrine
From: "Neil Simpson" <neil.s...@virgin.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:34:16 -0700
Doesn't Ephedrine have anti-catabolic properties ???
Regards
Neil
Web site: http://business.virgin.net/neil.simpson/agency.htm
JPE web page: http://members.tripod.com/mprevost
Check out URB AT http://www.theministryoffitness.com/urb.htm
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Subject: TRAINING FREQUENCY & MEMORIES
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:39:32 -0700
On 8/17/99, Brian Williams<winds...@earthlink.net> wrote:
<<
I'd have to say yep to that (i.e. athletes drifting by trial and error to
their optimal training regimes - summary inserted by Mel), however I wonder
how the development of OL/BB/PL disciplines may have affected this - the
physique culture from early strongmen, OL'ing whence it came (I'm
pathetically ignorant of OL
history..) and PL as a way to "simplify" olympic lifting (nowadays that's
quite a laugh...). My guess would be that there is more cross over between
disciplines nowdays, rather than the other way around.
>>
***Anyone who may be interested in the evolution of Olympic Weightlifting,
as well as other aspects of the "Iron Game", the book "The Iron Game" by
David Webster offers a most readable and interesting history of the early
strong men who paved the way for all that followed.
<<
Mel's posts from as far back as when he had "Witwatersrand" (sp?) in his
sig nudged me to looking into overhead squats.
>>
***Your spelling of my former university's name was perfectly correct - not
too many non-South Africans manage that feat! Well done!
My former signature address:
School of Mechanical Engineering,
University of the Witwatersrand, WITS 2050, South Africa
ms...@hertz.mech.wits.ac.za
Has been replaced by:
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
since my American wife and I moved to Littleton, Colorado, where we had
kept her previous house, just in case we decided that the USA should become
our new home, which it did when uncontrolled crime and lack of disabled
accessibility in South Africa for my paraplegic wife made life very
difficult and oppressive.
I shall never forget the special experiences that the University of the
Witwatersrand (called 'Wits' for short by everyone in S Africa) afforded me
during the 38 years that I spent there as a student and staff member.
The name Wit-waters-rand means White Waters Ridge in Afrikaans and the
university itself sits atop a high ridge overlooking the northern suburbs
of Johannesburg. Topmost is the grand Grecian columned Central Block
flanked by smaller, but the equally grand old physics (where I studied for
many years) and mechanical engineering buildings (where I ended up
teaching).
Looking northwards down the cascading patios and tree-framed lawns, one can
see the 50m long Olympic swimming pool (where I spent many lunch hours),
alongside which stands the Old Mutual Indoor Sports Centre (which contains
the Weightlifting Club which I frequented for much of my university life).
At yet another lower level, sprall the cricket and rugby fields, tennis
courts and old athletic track, where I played all of these sports during my
early years at Wits.
Almost paradoxically, the Nuclear Physics Unit sits nearby, the site of
some of my later student work. Not too far away, tucked away in another
corner of the campus are two women's residences('dorms'), where, not
surprisingly, I courted some early loves of my life!
When I was a young Track & Field athlete who had read in 1959 about how the
Russians used weights to improve their sport, I wandered into an old
ramshackled prefabricated hut which was home to the Weightlifting, Boxing
and Judo clubs and set out to emulate what little I knew then about Russian
training methods. Little did I ever dream that I would end up visiting
Russia twice and writing a strength textbook with one of its top scientists
(Dr Verkhoshansky)!
Within months, I had discovered that my body seemed to flourish on strength
activities and it was not too long afterwards that I was in the university
weightlifting team with a standing press of about 270lbs (122.5 kg) and
totally sold on this fascinating game. My life was changed forever, since
my sport gave me an excuse to combine it with physics and mathematics and
ensure that I could quite happily mix work with pleasure.
Later I became chairman of the Wits weightlifting club and introduced
competitive powerlifting to all the universities in S Africa. Ultimately I
became chairman of the combined SA Universities Weightlifting Association
(for over 20 years), which meant that I came to spend a great deal of time
at most universities in the country.
Interestingly, my father (medical doctor) and two of his brothers (medical
doctor and geologist) were also on the staff of the same university, so at
one stage, there were four Siffs working on the campus!
My research in biomechanics led to the university paying for me to speak at
overseas conferences over the years and at one of these in Denver, I met my
future wife!
Need I add more why I will always have wonderfully warm memories about WITS
university and all that I gained there? All that I am able to share with
fellow Americans now is thanks to the time that I spent on that excellent
campus.
Brian, many thanks for stimulating some of the warmest memories of my
life - if the above sketches of my university recollections do not bore
others, they may fill in a few details about how I came to join the world
of strength training.
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
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Subject: Re: tuna recipes
From: sheilah <shei...@islanderis.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:39:51 -0700
Tabasco Sauce adds zip also; and they say hot spicy is good for your system.
Sheilah
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Subject: ULTRA HIT?
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:40:20 -0700
Just when some of us may have been entertaining notions that we may be
quite fit, along comes the tale of a man who spent 48 days running a
distance of 3100 miles! The following website relates this amazing feat:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/srichinmoy15.html
Talk about HIT methods of training! Would anyone care to contemplate the
sort of strength training program to suit such an individual??
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
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Subject: Why did you start training
From: Dom...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:42:21 -0700
I really like this thread about training. Here's my story:
I started doing weight training in high school back in the 60s, both as
part of football practice and part because my brother put up a small
weighlifiting set-up in the basement. Did'nt know what I was doing, (even
the high school coaches back then didn't really know what to do). Stopped
working out in my 20s (marriage, grad school) but took it up again in my
30s as a way of staying into shape. However I had no sense of diet, no
cardio and no real sense of what I was doing, so my gains were pretty
limited. Also I developed rhumatoid arthritis which put a crimp on how
much I could do. Again I really didn't have much of a sense of a the
importance of diet, cardio and using the various hardginaer principles, so
I overtrained liked hell, made few gains and had a lot of injuries.
About four years ago I had a very serious medical situation which put me
out of commission for about 18 months. After I recovered I started back
again, but this time with a a far greater sense of respect for my body and
doing weightlifting in a way that was healthy and pleasurable. I was very
fortunate to find this list which was perhaps the biggest factor in all my
gains since. Also my rheumatoid arthritis went into remission.
Now at the age of 48 I have the body I was trying to get at 21 (minus a
few winkles, gray hairs) Ironically before I realize a lot of my training
was about image,- as a result I would put my self through a lot of
unnecessary pain in order to try to achieve what I wanted. Because I had
very little good sense about what I was doing, the gains very little. Today
I train for pleasure, I have a pretty good sense of what the correct way
to train is (thanks ,in large part to this list) and what works for me.
Going to the gym, feeling my body warm up and then moving into the
exercises, pushing the weight, stretching....all of this is a kind of
pleasure I never experienced before. Also knowing now what I eat is healthy
and tastes good (I think now I actually taste and enjoy what I eat) Of
course the rewards are becoming very visible.
I have short term goals in working out ( alternating putting on muscle
periods with losing fat periods, working out parts of the body etc), but
my long term goal is really to keep on doing this until I drop. (Maybe I'll
be the one who will be writing the book Body Building for 80 Year Olds).
Domiter
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Subject: Re: Squats - I need help
From: Keith Gillespie <kei...@qlm.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:12:58 -0700
Lynn,
You said:
>My problem is that I can't help but lower my chest/torso towards my thighs
>far too forward (in my opinion). I have to lean this far forward or I'll
>fall over, seriously.
I used to have exactly the same problem. Then I changed four things, all
learned from Stuart McRoberts' books (Beyond Brawn or The Insider's Guide
to Weight Training, I forget which, and because I'm naming the books from
memory, I think I've butchered the second one a little).
I used to squat with my feet exactly shoulder width apart. I've since
spread them a few inches more apart.
I used to squat with my toes pointing forward. I've since pointed them a
bit out to the sides.
I used to squat with the bar at the base of my neck. I've since moved the
bar *considerably* down toward my shoulder blades (probably a good inch or
few from where it was). It should feel like your upper lats are the only
thing holding the bar up. I believe this was the single-best thing I did to
improve my squat form. When the bar was at the base of my neck, it would
make my head bow forward. Now that it's on my upper-upper back, I remain
much more upright.
I used to look straight ahead or down. I've since learned to keep my eyes
focused about 2-5 feet above eye level.
I found that when I made the above adjustments, my chest would stay out, my
back would a great arch, my knees would stay behind my toes--all the other
mechanics just fell into place because of my improved foot, toe, bar and
eye placements. Above all, the lower bar placement did great things for
me--try it without any weight on the bar first to get the feel of it.
Before I did these things, I could squat about 200 lbs for about 8 reps.
Again, I'm going from memory; it may well be that the bar was less than
200. I *do* remember that my form was horrible and it's a miracle I didn't
get hurt. Within DAYS of switching my form, I was doing 20-rep sets with
200 lbs in perfect form. It's been about 4 months--and I've been a real
slacker this summer, only working out once or twice every 10 days, and I'm
squatting 275 lbs for 3 sets of 12 reps. If I had stuck with any reasonable
workout schedule this summer, I have no doubt I'd be doing at least a few
reps at 300. That's not much to many people on the list, but given my
previous poor-form efforts, I never thought I'd see the day.
Squats are now my number one favorite exercise.
Hope this helps you as much as it did me.
Keith Gillespie
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