weights #2399
The Weights Mailing List
Re: ONE VS MANY SETS: response to Mel
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
proper Power Clean form - butt height at starting position?
by Victor Farren <vfa...@smtp.cdie.org>
Recovery Advice?
by Greg Tutunjian <g...@javanet.com>
Shoulder injury
by J Kavanaugh <jka...@hotmail.com>
Re: Some thoughts on LBM and fat loss
by Edd, The Alexander <edd...@jetlink.net>
Re: Stretch marks
by Rosemary Wedderburn <Cooki...@mediaone.net>
Re: Some thoughts on LBM and fat loss
by Bernie Hayden <hay...@xkl.com>
Testosterone Replacement
by <Dwayne...@providentcompanies.com>
Re: The "Master" Critic Siff
by <Raym...@aol.com>
Triple H's supplementation?
by creep <cre...@home.com>
Re: Weight Training for Fitness
by Loren Chiu <loren...@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: ONE VS MANY SETS: response to Mel
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:14:37 -0700
On 8/4/00, Jospeh Brown<br...@Psych.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
<<
I am very grateful to Mel for taking the time and effort to critically
examine Carpinelli's review. I better understand where he is coming
from. I think we are talking about two different populations. I'm
talking about those who strength train for other sports besides
competitive lifting. For that special group, I think Mel's critique of
one set approaches makes sense.
>>
***My major problem with any given approach is that of dogmatism and
narrowness of approach., be it in the form of HIT, "Superslow" or Olympic
style methods. While one set training may play a useful role in the more
fundamental stages of strength conditioning, on its own it will not
necessarily ensure the most effective progress in the long term either
for competitive lifters or the general public.
In fact, wrestling against an equally strong partner for a few 1-2 minute
rounds lasting less than 15 minutes will probably produce greater increase
in overall strength, muscle endurance, flexibility and size than many of
the one set routines lasting twice as long. In addition, that sort of
regime would offer many more so-called "functional" benefits to the average
person - and yes, that includes many everyday things that one does around
the home - now, no smart remarks from amateur bedroom wrestlers here,
please :)
For optimal training, one needs to shed the dogmatism and draw upon a wider
range and complex of means and methods to suit the individual over a given
period. Yes, that may include HIT or one setting sometimes; yes, it may
include aspects of the Olympic lifts; yes, it may use some old "Dinosaur"
methods; and yes, it may even include some wrestling and martial arts!
This is the very reason why I included many dozens of bodybuilding methods
of training in our book, "Supertraining" (1999, Ch 7) - I simply do not
subscribe to a one way approach.
Mel Siff
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
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Subject: proper Power Clean form - butt height at starting position?
From: "Victor Farren" <vfa...@smtp.cdie.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:17:09 -0700
Now that I have your attention...
I am still trying to perfect my form on Power Cleans. In my opinion, I
have never has a proper 'powerlifter' show me how to do powercleans, so I
have had to rely on what the trainers at the my local Gold's Gym have
showed me, and some videos I have found on the web. In particular,
http://stage.fitrex.com/fitness_info/all_muscle_groups.html
under Power Clean.
I try and keep my back straight and lift with my legs until the bar has
cleared my knees, then shrug the weight up and catch the bar at shoulder
height.
As I was doing these one of the trainers said that I was rounding my back
in the starting position (bad!), and that I should start w/ my butt lower
to the ground to help keep my back straight. I noticed that I was starting
off with my butt sligtly above my knees. When I started off with my butt
at the same level as my knees, my back was indeed straight, but I found the
movement very awkward, and I wasn't able to generate as much power.
So, where does the butt have to be, above, below or level with the knees
when in the bottom starting position of the Power Clean?
Thanks,
Victor
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Subject: Recovery Advice?
From: Greg Tutunjian <g...@javanet.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:24:01 -0700
Anyone have experience "coming back" from sinusitis, pleurisy, and mild
pneumonia? I received Augmentin (875mg), twice a day, for 10 days. This
is Day 5 of the prescription. Headaches almost gone (sinusitis), chest pain
50% reduced (pleurisy), and energy level 50% of normal (pneumonia.)
Diagnosis came after a week of ("I have the flu") limited aerobic training
(cycling) and no lifting. The previous week, I was cycling well. My MD
said I can resume easy aerobic exercise and lifting in two more weeks.
Thanks,
Greg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Shoulder injury
From: "J Kavanaugh" <jka...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:24:21 -0700
Several months ago I injured by shoulder (somehow). The pain is mild except
when I lift so I had to stop. I went to a physical therapist for ultrasound
treatments and rubber band exercises for tendonitis and ultimately an ortho
for cortisone. All treatments gave me some temporary improvement but the
problem remained. Finally it was determined (with MRI) that I have a
partially torn supraspinatus (sp?) with impingement. Surgery has been
recommended (fix the tear and shave the bone for the impingement). I also
have the choice of local or general anesthesia. The surgery is outpatient
and then 3 months of physical therapy and recovey. I am told I should be as
good as new. I would like to know if anyone else has faced this problem and
what they decided to do and how it turned out for them. Please let me know.
Thanks for your help!
Kav
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on LBM and fat loss
From: "Edd, The Alexander" <edd...@jetlink.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:24:38 -0700
Thomas Incledon wrote:
> If we look at the research on previously sedentary people that take up an
> exercise program, any of a large number of exercise strategies involving
> weight training can increase lean body mass and reduce body fat. .... A
> far better strategy is to lose fat mass as slowly as
> possible at a rate of 1/2 a pound to 1 pound per week.
Have you done any 5 year follow ups to see how long these people maintain
their weight loss?
E
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Subject: Re: Stretch marks
From: "Rosemary Wedderburn" <Cooki...@mediaone.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:25:26 -0700
If you're young and able to increase poundages quickly, thus increasing
muscle hypertrophy quickly, you might want to slow down a bit. Possibly
your skin can't keep up with the increase in your muscle mass. You will
eventually get where you want to be anyway. Also, some people's skin
tends to get stretch marks more readily than others. You can try rubbing
Vitamin E oil into the areas where the stretch marks are starting to
form. You might see if you can locate a product by Jason which is a 25
000 IU cream. Another possibility is to use cocoa butter based skin
cream. You can purchase the former at most health food stores and the
latter at most groceries. Rosemary
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on LBM and fat loss
From: "Bernie Hayden" <hay...@xkl.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:25:04 -0700
Tom,
You wrote in Weights #2392:
=================
Avoid cardio and instead do more anaerobic type movements. For
bodybuilders, circuit weight training is an excellent choice. For other
groups, interval-type training on a treadmill, cycle ergometer or stepmill
can be very effective.
=================
If caloric intake is matched with output, why do you think cardiovascular
work is going to have a negative effect on retaining LBM? I'm confused
by what seem to be contradictory recommendations when you then say circuit
training is an excellent choice for bodybuilders. Isn't the point of
circuit training to move quickly between stations thereby keeping the heart
rate high throughout the workout? By definition any work regime that
exceeds a few minutes in duration must be aerobic. The same for interval
work. While the work intervals may be anaerobic the majority of the
workout must be in the aerobic zone.
-Bernie Hayden-
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Subject: Testosterone Replacement
From: Dwayne...@providentcompanies.com
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:25:49 -0700
I just recently started Hormone replacement at 100 mg per week self
injected. I would like to hear from anyone that is currently on this type
of therapy ie what your experience has been, you know the good, bad & ugly
of it all. Thanks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: The "Master" Critic Siff
From: Raym...@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:35:48 -0700
To The Master Critic
Well, Mel, I was both impressed and puzzled by your response and the
response of your fellow weights students.
The puzzled part.
I want to quote you correctly now. "You respond to my sharing with you as
if I offer nothing of any value to this group. If so maybe I need to leave
you to take over and do a better job of one that, I obviously am not doing
to your satisfaction. " Gee Mel you criticize others but when you are
questioned you do as my six year old would. You threaten to take your ball
and go home.
I do not remember saying anything about your lack of value. My complaint is
not so much, your questioning of recommend routines, philosophies or
theories of others but your Master's, Guru's name calling that you attached
to your criticisms. "The self Proclaimed Guru's" What is the title of your
book. Is it "Super Training" Would I then refer to you as The self
proclaimed "Super Trainer". Does someone's PR person advise them to go by
some heading to sell more books or courses? Maybe? Could it be pupil's of
these other coaches who call them Master's "Super" where does this come
from, Self proclaimed????
The Question's
Is it possible that for me, at some particular point in my training
routine, year, training life, what ever, that some technique or techniques
Poliquin, Staley, King or Chek recommended in one of their books could have
worked for me even though no study had been done on it?
Mel, I am no scientist but haven't there been many times in History when
something worked long before it was found to be validated by some
scientific study. Also are there not times when studies are wrong or when
later studies prove them wrong?.
I have both your books. But honestly with kids, 60-HR work weeks, finding
time to hit the gym among other things I have not had time to read them
fully. However, I will. You know what though If in your book you wrote
about an idea but had no references or studies to back it up but still
believed it would work> would you say "I believe this would work". Or
Alternatively, would you wait for the study? Do not all-training theories
start with an idea?
Mel, I will take from your material, Poilquin's, Chek's, Bomba's, King's,
Simmon's, Hatfeild's, The NSCA. I will continue to try to figure out what
is best for me, and my goals, my body, my weaknesses, my strengths, my age,
my limited time. To me there seems to be value in all. All the references
and studies did not have me in them. I was not in the study. Are there some
philosophies that will generally work for most people most the time? Yes.
Is there something that seems radical to you Mel which may end up someday
being widely accepted >probably. I only have to know if it worked for me.
I have to use my own experimentation and will continue to. Do I care if it
is rehashed? No. Do I care if it is innovative? no.
Finally, To all Master's, Guru's, Supertrainer's, or self proclaimed "40
year olds trying to stay in shape"(ME) Thanks to all of you> your ideas,
thoughts, theories, and routines keep me in the gym and I am grateful for
that. To Mel and all else I have offended directly or indirectly, I
apologize. Mel don't take your ball and go home some days we will just
disagree lets just drop the name calling.
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Subject: Triple H's supplementation?
From: "creep" <cre...@home.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:36:15 -0700
I remember a while back that Triple H from the WWF was sayin something
about some supplements he takes... I know he's on a lot of protein shakes
but hes on other stuff too. No, not 'roids you jokers.
any ideas?
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Subject: Re: Weight Training for Fitness
From: "Loren Chiu" <loren...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:37:04 -0700
>From: David Walsh <dwa...@post.its.mcw.edu>
>Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 23:08:06 -0700
>
> Hi all: This is an open question to anyone who cares to reply. Most of
>what I see written concerning weight training seems to be for strength
>athletes who seek a maximum lift or lifts or bodybuilders who seek a
>combination of size and aesthetic shape. There is less, it seems, on the
>use of weight training -resistance training, perhaps- for enhancing fitness
>and performance in other sports. So, can anyone point me in the right
>direction for sites, publications, books, etc? Thanks for any help you can
>give.
Hi Dave,
You're right, most weight training related sites seem to be aimed at the
bodybuilder crowd. However, there are a number of good sites that look
more training for sports performance.
Here's a list of some:
http://www.nsca-lift.org
http://www.humankinetics.com
http://www.sportsci.org
http://www.myodynamics.com
http://www.wsu.edu/athletics/strength
http://www.css.edu/users/tboone2/asep/fldr/fldr.htm
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coachsci/index.htm
http://www.web-ster.com/kcarr/dischat.html
http://www.completeconditioning.com
http://www.sorinex.com
Some of these are more scientific based and a couple are commercial sites
that have either info on books, journals, and videos or an articles page.
HTH
Loren Chiu
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