weights #2400
The Weights Mailing List
WEIGHTLIFTING DYSMORPHIA?
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
re: HIGH INTENSITY LIFTING?
by Brian Williams <winds...@earthlink.net>
Re: Poliquin Information
by Peter Mavromatis <peter.ma...@buseco.monash.edu.au>
Re: 'Master' Critic Siff
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
Average Bench Press?
by James Errickson <jameser...@home.com>
Re: Bench Press Injury
by Jim Lancaster <Ji...@fox.com>
Re: creatine, long distance bicycle training & recovery?
by Bernie Hayden <hay...@xkl.com>
JUMPING MECHANICS?
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
Re: losing lots of weight and keeping it off.
by Edd, The Alexander <edd...@jetlink.net>
Re: NEW SPORTS GROUP
by <christi...@key3media.com>
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Subject: WEIGHTLIFTING DYSMORPHIA?
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:38:55 -0700
The following journal article arrived at a conclusion that should never
have been recahed.
Am J Psychiatry 2000 Aug 1; 157(8):1291-1296
http://www.newswise.com/articles/2000/7/DYSMORPH.APA.html
<<
The first controlled study of muscle dysmorphia found that weightlifters
with the disorder differed strikingly from normal weightlifters on many
measures, including body dissatisfaction, eating attitudes, prevalence of
anabolic steroid use, and lifetime prevalence of mood, anxiety and eating
disorders. The study is published in the August 2000 American Journal of
Psychiatry.
Muscle dysmorphia is an individual's chronic preoccupation with the notion
that he or she is not sufficiently muscular. People with the disorder,
dubbed in previous studies as "reverse anorexia nervosa," display traits
similar to individuals with eating disorders, "in that the pursuit of
'bigness' shows remarkable parallels to the pursuit of thinness," according
to the study.
When asked if they spend more than three hours per day thinking about their
muscularity, 50 percent of the group with muscle dysmorphia agreed. When
asked if they had little or no control over their compulsive weightlifting
and dietary regimens, 54 percent of the group concurred
>>
***If one reads that webpage, it is clear that the researchers have
confused weight trainers or bodybuilders with Weightlifters. All too
often, these totally different entities are confused. Weightlifters may be
a lot of things, but it is very rare for them to be concerned about muscle
or body shape or size, except if it affects their competing in a more
difficult bodymass division.
They should know that Weightlifters aim to lift as much weight as possible
above the head in two technically demanding lifts (the Snatch and the Clean
& Jerk), a task which requires the development of great explosive power,
not the presence of grossly hypertrophied muscles. Paradoxically to many
observers, many weightlifters in the bodymass classes up to the "Open"
class, seem far too unmuscular to be lifting those huge loads overhead.
They fail to appreciate that power depends very strongly on the ability of
the nervous system to produce great power in complex patterns of movement
and that muscular size in a given bodymass class is pretty much irrelevant
except in the more novice ranks of competition.
The authors end their study thus:
<<
Men with muscle dysmorphia differ sharply from normal weightlifters, most
of whom display little psychopathology. Further research is necessary to
characterize the nosology and potential treatment of this syndrome.
>>
***At first I wondered if the confusion of weight trainers with
Weightlifters was due to a popularisation by some news reporter, but if one
reads this peer-reviewed article, it is quite clear that neither the
authors nor the reviewers seem to know the difference between two different
types of athlete or exerciser. It is as reprehensible as scientists
confusing soccer (football) with American football.
Their mistake casts a very negative shadow over the Olympic sport of
weightlifting and this journal needs to correct this misrepresentation as
soon as possible, especially since it can have an unwanted effect on
youngsters or the parents of youngsters who wish to take up competitive
weightlifting.
Some may argue that weight training is often colloquially confused with
Weightlifting, so that such an error is quite natural. However, a
peer-reviewed journal should not have allowed this sort of layperson error
to have taken place. The editors of this Psychiatry journal would probably
be very quick to correct anyone who confused psychiatrists with
physiatrists and psychologists. All of this does not reflect very
favourably on the authors or the journal.
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: re: HIGH INTENSITY LIFTING?
From: "Brian Williams" <winds...@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:01:37 -0700
>>
Tom has just told us that he has learned that a little less may be more
and that any training at regular high levels of volume and intensity may
not be the best way to go. What have others found?
<<
I think that frequency of exercise changes as we age - whether because one
may be lifting "smarter" or some other physical factor, I don't know. I
have broke through plateaus by decreasing volume, taking layoffs, and
interestingly enough by increasing training volume/frequency as well.
Perhaps the one constant I've found is that there is a point of diminishing
returns greater than that of my base line. What I mean is that at some
point both HIT and higher volume work ceases to work and I regress to below
my original level - I've done this at both ends of the spectrum. This
decrease is greater than I experience with stagnation in my typical lifting
schedule, which some would think as a bit higher than the norm - I make my
best gains and achieve the most satisfaction lifting for 1 to 1 1/2 hours
either 4 or 5 days per week. My lifting routines are basically like those
espoused by Louie Simmons, he and Tudor Bompa being perhaps my greatest
influences at this time. All else aside, I have pretty much lit on a few
maxims:
1. "Speed training" works. Period. My aging joints feel better and I can
handle a lot more total volume with a couple of speed days per week.
2. Specializing in weak points makes a difference - doing JM presses and
board presses helps the sticking point in the bench, pause benches, speed
bench and push presses (yes, push presses) have helped break sticking
points from the bottom of the movement. Likewise kneeling squats, front
squats, Zercher lifts and overhead squats and all of the other permutations
of the squat have helped my back squat improve.
3. The more complex a movement, the better it seems to affect my
performance in any lift. Direct work for things like arms are pretty much
a thing of the past for me. I get all the work I need with snatches, push
presses, clean and jerk etc.
4. To improve a lift, you have to do that movement, with perhaps one
exception. Even the lowly bench is more complex than it seems, and
tweaking my form helps as much as anything else in the gym. The exception
here is deadlifts. Admitting that point is painful for me, as deads are
one of my all time favorite movements. Last year LB Baker mentioned not
doing them on this list, and I have heard quite a few other power lifters
say much the same. I gave it a try (thanks LB - if you're still around).
For some reason, I continue to make gains with a very low volume of
deadlifts - perhaps twice a month.
As far as the frequency of training bit goes, I agree wholeheartedly with
Bompa on the point that as an adaptive organism, the body's recovery
ability is not static. If you lessen your volume of training, good old
homeostasis rears its head and your bod amps down its resource allocation
to the recovery side of the equation. I think that this is perhaps the
achilles heel of the more radical HIT trainers - at some point decreasing
the volume or frequency of training will lessen or negate any gains you
make. As far as "HIT" itself goes, the argument about muscle comic
routines being de rigeur in the mainstream is a bit out of line. The vast
majority of trainers that I am aware of don't follow the training schedules
in the comics, and if they do they don't last too long. In the end, we are
all a little bit Libertarian.....
An analogy from fly fishing fits quite well in the lifting milieu. Though
I have a box full of flies from imitators to attractors, I catch the
majority of my fish with PMD's and Caddis. Spend all day messing around
with the newest fitness fad and you'll still make the most of your gains
the old fashioned way - in a cloud of chalk.
Happy hoisting,
Brian
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Poliquin Information
From: Peter Mavromatis <peter.ma...@buseco.monash.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:16:08 -0700
Interesting theory. I noticed in Ian King's newsletter a couple of months
ago that he had an excerpt of Mel Siff which made Poliquin look foolish.
It was from some newsgroup. In any case my guess is that Poliquin is paid
a shitload more to work with hockey players, etc. than to write articles
for t-mag. So the choice is easy. By the way have you tried Androsol?
Also I liked your article on power cleans. When will you be featuring
again? Cheers, Peter
_______________________
Peter Mavromatis
Department of Economics
Monash University
AUSTRALIA
_______________________
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Winston Churchill.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: 'Master' Critic Siff
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:02:20 -0700
On 8/9/00, Anonymous author . . .<Raym...@aol.com> wrote:
<<
I do not remember saying anything about your lack of value. My complaint
is not so much, your questioning of recommend routines, philosophies or
theories of others but your Master's, Guru's name calling that you attached
to your criticisms. "The self Proclaimed Guru's" What is the title of your
book. Is it "Super Training" Would I then refer to you as The self
proclaimed "Super Trainer"
>>
***As a matter of fact, the name "Supertraining" that we chose for our
textbook came from the same root as "superstructure", because we intended
that our textbook would extensively cover the biomechanical and
physiological superstructure of strength training.
Neither Dr V nor I has ever made self-demeaning, opinionated statements
about being gurus, Masters or the world's greatest, such as those
self-proclaimed experts whom we have been criticising. We simply hoped
that our information would prove to be as useful as possible for anyone
working at an advanced level of strength training. Whether anyone chooses
to call us gurus or not is of no concern to us whatsoever - we merely trust
that what we wrote to share with the strength world met our intentions and
helped to advance the field of strength training.
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
mcs...@aol.com
http://www.egroups.com/group/supertraining
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Average Bench Press?
From: James Errickson <jameser...@home.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:02:30 -0700
What is national average to bench press for a 22yr,6ft 3in, 160lb male?
Is there some scale to guide someone that is just trying to get into
good shape? Any information would be helpful. Thank you.
e-mail jameser...@home.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bench Press Injury
From: "Jim Lancaster" <Ji...@fox.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:02:48 -0700
Mike, yes, lifting after taking an anti-inflammatory would be a bad idea if
only because it would mask or reduce any pain you might feel that would
indicate further injury being incurred. There are all sorts of rotator
cuff exercises you can do to help heal the injury but I would suggest
seeking out a physical therapist or an Active Release Techniques therapist
make sure everything is on track. The ART information can be found on the
Testosterone website and a practitioner has greatly helped my shoulder
injuries.
Best,
Jim L.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: creatine, long distance bicycle training & recovery?
From: "Bernie Hayden" <hay...@xkl.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:05:15 -0700
One of the effects of creatine that's been mentioned is weight gain due to
an uptake of fluid in the muscle cells. I wouldn't think the extra weight
would be a great thing for road riding (I make the assumption you're not
doing back to back to back centuries on dirt). Creatine has been touted to
increase absolute strength but I don't believe it's been attributed to any
significant gains in aerobic endurance. I've also heard stories of
cramping with creatine use; perhaps related to the hydration balance in the
body.
-Bernie Hayden-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: JUMPING MECHANICS?
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:07:48 -0700
The following appeared in a newsletter by Ian King, an Australian fitness
professional who often tours the world market
(http://www.kingsports.net/bs18-askthemaster.htm)
Someone asked him in his column which he calls "Ask the MASTER" :
JUMP WITHOUT PLANTARFLEXION
----------------------------------------------------
<In the seminar you did near Boston you mentioned during jump training, to
jump without plantar flexing the feet. What is the purpose of that? . . . .
. . >
King's reply was as follows:
<< The technique of actually dorsi flexing in the jump has a number of
purposes, including:
* decreasing ground contact time
* therefore increasing elastic energy utilization
* teaches focus on air time, not toe time
* greater specificity with the sprint technique I teach
* reduces hamstring flex in sprint leg cycle >>
-----------------------------------------------------
*** Issues such as the following immediately spring to mind:
1. If one really wishes to jump without plantarflexion, one has to begin
from a static start way back on the heels, with no contact whatsoever
between any other part of the foot and the ground. After you have read
this, try it for yourself and experience how one needs to balance on the
tip of the heel before one even attempts this drill. Any ground contact
with other parts of the sole besides the heel will elicit a reflex tendency
to plantarflex the ankle.
2. In referring to elastic energy utilization, it is essential to
identify in which exact tissues the elastic energy storage and release is
occurring. Regarding increased utilisation of elastic energy processes in
the all of the soft tissues involved in jumping and running, it is
essential to understand the central role played by plantarflexion.
Anyway, no scientists have yet managed to determine how much of rebounding
efficiency is due to contributions from stored elastic energy and how much
is due to stretch and related nervous processes. To claim that any
training method will increase elastic energy usage in isolation from other
mechanisms implies that one knows the answer to a problem that science has
not yet managed to resolve.
3. Whatever exact meaning is attributed to the obscure phrase, "reduces
hamstring flex in sprint leg cycle", hamstrings do not "flex". Muscles
contract and relax, while joints flex or extend.
Maybe others would be moved to comment on the validity and accuracy of
these statements, regarding either the biomechanics or the practical issues
involved? For those who may be interested, there is further discussion
on this and related issues on the supertraining list
(http://www.egroups.com/group/supertraining)
Mel Siff
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: losing lots of weight and keeping it off.
From: "Edd, The Alexander" <edd...@jetlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:08:21 -0700
J Knight wrote:
> > Tell us about your exercise. What are you doing
> > those 5-6 days a
> > week? All weight lifting? other things too?
> >
> > Edd
> ...
> 3. Vowed to share what I accomplished with other women
> struggling in the gym. I too tried 5-7 days of heavy
> cardio, sometimes 2 classes per day but didn't take
> the last of the 40 lbs off till I truly incorporated
> solid weight lifting into the program. Today, this is
> my key to keeping off the weight.
I've got a few pounds I'd like to lose as you did. How often do you
lift? How long is a typical session?
Edd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NEW SPORTS GROUP
From: christi...@key3media.com
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:08:43 -0700
Mcs...@aol.com wrote:
>>We have started a new Internet discussion group devoted to all physical and
>>mental aspects of sports, strength and fitness science and training, as
>>well as injury and health management.
Funny, I thought this list was devoted to just the same. Or do you now
consider it simply an outlet to spam us with info on your own creation?
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