weights #2404
The Weights Mailing List
Re: NEW SPORTS GROUPS
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
OWL vs. WT (was Bulgarian training)
by Loren Chiu <loren...@hotmail.com>
Re: Questions
by Saundra Scott <saun...@hotmail.com>
Re: Zerchers and kneeling squats
by Brian Williams <winds...@earthlink.net>
WeightsNet Membership?
by <Mcs...@aol.com>
Re: Shoulder injury
by Shimm, David <David...@Centura.Org>
Re: Ripped Fuel?
by Supapecs <supe...@softhome.net>
chicken recipes?
by Steve Wilk <stev...@mindspring.com>
Gyms in London?
by Chris <fab4...@yahoo.com>
renewtrient?
by Steve Wilk <stev...@mindspring.com>
Re: Visible Abs?
by <JP...@aol.com>
Re: Visible Abs?
by Tim Wilbur <twi...@together.net>
Olympic lifting Training frequency/volume
by Charles Staley <sta...@myodynamics.com>
Re: chicken recipes?
by Delphene <dhe...@interbaun.com>
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Subject: Re: NEW SPORTS GROUPS
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:34:53 -0700
On 8/15/00, David Kortz<david....@medtronic.com> wrote:
<<
I've been on this Weights list for many years and really like it. Even
though many lists and web sites have come and gone, I can count on the
fact that THIS list is consistently organized, well maintained and
includes thoughtful discussion from a large pool of worthwhile sources.
I appreciate the work that Mr. Sullivan continues to do on this list and
applaud his efforts and results.
>>
***I have also been here for ages and also really enjoy this excellent group.
Mike Sullivan has done a magnificent job of pioneering this group and
offering this free opportunity for so many people to learn and share ideas.
<<
I can't resist asking you Mcs...@aol.com if new supermarkets would ever
advertise their new stores by hanging unpaid announcements INSIDE
existing supermarkets?
>>
*** Just for your interest, I have advertised WeightsNet to hundreds of
people at my own seminars and on other training lists, as well as in my
book "Facts and Fallacies of Fitness", because I have considered it a very
valuable service. Interestingly, no other groups have yet objected to my
advertising Weights Net when I have mentioned how worthwhile a group it is
to join. In most cases, there has never been a mass migration from one
group to another. Instead, many people simply subscribe to another list
and obtain even more information from a different source.
All of us who are devoting our efforts to make more free information and
further opportunities for learning available to everyone are doing so for
one driving reason - we love the field in which we are embedded and want to
share it with others of like mind. There is absolutely no intention at all
to compete with any other lists - each one of us has a somewhat different
focus and approach to art and science of strength and fitness training, so
you have everything to gain and nothing to lose, just as any country gains
when a new university opens up.
The group I have started is in some ways simply an extension of a hard
copy magazine ("The Scientific Bulletin" - of Strength and Fitness) that I
used to produce for many years at my former university in South Africa as
part of an educational venture that I offered to thousands of fitness and
strength folk there. The Internet has now provided the means for doing this
on a much larger scale throughout the world - and I look forward to being
able to continue that service to as many people as possible.
I, for one, applaud Mike Sullivan, for his efforts in keeping this group
going - I like to think of him as a an old partner in a similar game - many
thanks, Mike!
<<Good luck with your new group. >>
***Thank you - you are welcome to join us for as long or short a time as
you wish, if you ever feel that you have the time or inclination. But
don't ever leave WeightsNet - you would lose out on many opportunities! I
certainly will continue to advertise its merits wherever I go.
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
http://www.egroups.com/group/supertraining
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Subject: OWL vs. WT (was Bulgarian training)
From: "Loren Chiu" <loren...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:35:42 -0700
>Subject: Bulgarian training
>From: Piers Redmore <pred...@weber.ucsd.edu>
>Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:19:53 -0700
>
>Could there be some reason why olympic style weightlifters can train more
>frequently than other weight trainers? Perhaps the absence of concentric
>movements in the classical lifts places less stress on the body? Or would
>the body adapt to frequent training with any type of exercise?
I believe you mean lack of eccentric movements. However, although the
classical lifts have a lower (but not non-existent) eccentric component,
the supplemental exercises still do (eg. squats).
>Or, could it be due to some differences in the types of people who take up
>Olymipc style lifting. Perhaps fast-twitch muscle fibers recover faster
>than slow-twitch muscle fibers. Since good olymipc lifters tend to have a
>higher percentage of fast twitch fibers than the general population,
>perhaps this means they can train more often. Does anyone out there know if
>there's a difference in recovery times between muscle fibre types?
I doubt this is it. IIRC, elite weightlifters have similar muscle fibre
makeup to "average" people. WL also attracts a number of different body
types/shapes/etc., so the genetics game doesn't enter the equation.
>Or, since olympic lifters have to maintain weight, they tend not to
>increase muscle mass. Perhaps training for hypertrophy requires more rest
>than training for strength.
I don't think we should categorize it as strength vs. hypertrophy training.
WL type training can be used to increase strength or hypertrophy. OTOH
bodybuilding type training is only useful (usually) for increasing
hypertrophy. Bodybuilding training usually includes excessive volume,
training to failure, and isolation training, which may lead to greater
muscle fibre breakdown and/or fatigue.
> > Here is where I think you hit the nail on the head Mel. I think the
>main reason why more frequent intense training may not catch on in this
>country is that people are afraid to commit to that kind of work. The
>notion of HAVING to rest a day between workouts is very appealing to the
>average trainee.
>
>So you think that the reason that non-olympic lifters train less frequently
>than other types of trainees is psychological rather than physological?
>Could it be that there are different ways to gain strength, but olympic
>lifters choose high volume methods because they need to train technique as
>well as strength?
I agree completely with Eric here. There's even research to back it up.
Recent studies are showing that there is no relationship between DOMS and
actual muscle tissue breakdown in moderately trained individuals (ie >8
weeks). So although DOMS can sometimes be quite painful, it is not a good
indicator of muscle breakdown.
Additionally, most WLs wake up stiff and sore everyday, just like most
weight trainers. However, as competitive athletes, we learn to live with
the "pain" and train through it, just like any other competitive athlete
would.
So there is likely a very different mindset between competitive WLs and the
average WT. Physiological reasons are only a small part of the equation,
and psychological is likely much greater.
Loren Chiu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Questions
From: "Saundra Scott" <saun...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:36:02 -0700
I, too, had a back injury and couldn't wait to get back into the gym.
Unfortunately, my impatience got the best of me and I herniated a disk.
Much more painful than just a back injury. I don't have cerebaal palsy,
so I don't know how weights effect you. I have multiple sclerosis, and it
is a pain to deal with sometimes because occaisionally I'll have partial
loss of feeling in one or more limbs. Right now it is my right quad. All
I can say is ease back into your routine because you'll be hurting
yourself worse if you push it too soon. Patience is a virtue: One I
lack. Good luck to you Saundra
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Subject: Re: Zerchers and kneeling squats
From: "Brian Williams" <winds...@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:38:52 -0700
Laree -
Zercher squats are done with the bar in the crook of your elbows. Some
kind of padding is highly recommended, either using elbow pads worn
backwards or PVC insulation around the bar as I do. The definitive site
for Zercher info is J.V. Askem's site at
http://www.olympus.net/personal/cablebar/index.htm Believe it or not,
Zerchers are actually kind of fun once you get past the excrutiating pain
:).
As far as kneeling squats go, they are simply a variation of squats where
you kneel down and squat from a position starting with your buttocks
resting on your heels. You stay on your knees the whole time. More info
on kneeling squats and some of the other movements I mentioned is available
at http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/
Hope this helps - if you have any further questions please let me know.
Regards,
Brian
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: WeightsNet Membership?
From: Mcs...@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:38:03 -0700
On 8/15/00, Christian Perry< christi...@key3media.com> wrote:
<<
Mcs...@aol.com said:
Come to think of it, over the years I cannot recall noticing that you have
contributed very much information to the WeightsNet list.
<
Over the years, huh? Funny, I don't remember seeing your name at all on
this list four years ago, when I joined, nor did I ever see it in the more
prominent weightlifting newsgroups 8 years ago (like misc.fitness before it
became mfw, etc.). I do post, but often not from this e-mail address, as I
access my accounts from different places at different times.
>
>>
***Jusst a quick WeightsNet archives check yielded the following from about
4 years ago:
A Major Article of mine on the Abs:
http://www.WeightsNet.com/cgi-bin/weightsissues.pl?1280 (24 July 1996)
Various "Puzzles & Paradoxes" that I wrote for many years:
http://www.WeightsNet.com/cgi-bin/weightsissues.pl?1244 (May 1996)
http://www.WeightsNet.com/cgi-bin/weightsissues.pl?1225 (Apr 17, 1996)
http://www.WeightsNet.com/cgi-bin/weightsissues.pl?1220 (Apr 11, 1996)
This goes back only as far as Puzzle & Paradox 66 and I started with No 1
on various weights and other sports science groups going back a few years
before that, so you must have missed those.
You can hunt through WeightsNet archives here:
http://www.WeightsNet.com/weights/search.html
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
http://www.egroups.com/group/supertraining
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Shoulder injury
From: "Shimm, David" <David...@Centura.Org>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:36:50 -0700
It will took me a full year to recover from shoulder surgery, but now I'm
able to lift more than before. Do your rehab exercises. Don't get
discouraged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Ripped Fuel?
From: Supapecs <supe...@softhome.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:36:25 -0700
I personally have not tried Ripped Fuel...but I have used Dymetadrine
Extreme by AST Research. I used it as a workout intensifier rather than a
fat burner. I lifted my heaviest ever while on it. 'Nuff said. :)
CoLiN
http://www8.50megs.com/pumpin/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: chicken recipes?
From: Steve Wilk <stev...@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:15:15 -0700
Can anyone give me some ideas of how to jazz up those bland chicken
breasts? I cook them on the grill, and am looking for some type of
marinade (low or no sugar) to improve the dull taste. I usually just
sprinkle garlic powder, pepper and paprika on the bird, or a
creole/cajun seasoning. Anyone have any suggestions?
steve
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Gyms in London?
From: Chris <fab4...@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:15:31 -0700
Hello,
I will be in London for the month of September. I am
looking for any gyms in the area. In particular I will
be near the following area (which according to a map
I have is near Wandswoth Park and the River Thames):
Putney Bridge Road
London SW18 1DA
Thanks for any info -
Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: renewtrient?
From: Steve Wilk <stev...@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:16:50 -0700
I saw an ad for "Renewtrient II" in a mag. Has anyone ever used this
stuff? Or the original? I've read that the original Renewtrient was
banned. This true? Why? Is the stuff legit, or just garbage like most
all the other GH releasing formulas? Anyone know?
Steve
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Visible Abs?
From: JP...@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:17:00 -0700
Diet
Good Luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Visible Abs?
From: Tim Wilbur <twi...@together.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:17:30 -0700
At 11:34 PM 8/15/00 -0700, Supapecs <supe...@softhome.net> wrote:
>Just remember you can do all the crunches in the world but your abs will
>never show until you shed bodyfat. I recommend the Animalbolics diet. It
>worked for me and quickly too I might add. It's all about manipulating your
>hormones. Check it out.
>
>http://www.ironmag.com/im_animalbolics.html
i'd like to hear some other opinions about this. in a nutshell, the jist i
got from this article is to keep insulin levels as low as possible
(preferably nonexistant) during the day except for after a workout. also,
don't be quick to eat first thing in the morning. you only take in
calories when they're needed (like immediately after a workout) rather than
at regular intervals during the day.
is it fact that fat can not be "burned off" is there's insulin in your
system?
should you wait as long as possible before eatting after awakening to
promote fat loss, or is there catabolism taking place that you want to stop?
some of the things this article is saying would appear to make sense, but
also go against mach of the dogma preached today.
(of course, this nutritional method is for those concentrating on lowering
body fat, for those who workout in the evenings, and don't have a
physically demanding job during the day.)
opinions?
Tim Wilbur (twi...@together.net)
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/twi...@together.net/
http://homepages.together.net/~twilbur/fitness.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Olympic lifting Training frequency/volume
From: Charles Staley <sta...@myodynamics.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:16:32 -0700
> > Could there be some reason why olympic style weightlifters can train more
> > frequently than other weight trainers?
>
>Actually, I have given this quite a bit of study and thought, and
>always thought it would make for a really neat paper. Comparing
>weightlifters and powerlifters, there is a bit of a paradox.
>Weightlifters as a group train a lot more frequently than do
>powerlifters while they are in my opinion of comparable strength
>levels. With our western bias of thinking everyone should have 48
>hours rest between training bodybuilders we tend to single out
>weightlifters training as being odd, but if we compare them to other
>strength power athletes (i.e. throwers, sprinters, football players)
>daily training (at least 5 days per week) is the norm. I think evidence
>is beginning to emerge to explain some portion of the phenomenon but
>perhaps not all of it.
At beginning stages, the high frequency is useful in terms of motor
skills acquisition, but it is my feeling that for many (esp western
athletes who are not state supported so to speak), the 6 day-a-week
thing on a consistent basis can be counter productive. A few years
ago, I supervised the training of weightlifter Joe Senate (details at
www.myodynamics.com), and reduced training frequency was a key factor
to his being able to put 113 pounds on his front squat and I believe
88 pounds on his total in less than a year after several years of
complete stagnation.
More recently, this year I assisted an elite female weightlifter
preparing for the trials, and her preparatory phase involved about
45% of her normal training frequency and a corresponding reduction in
total volume. Approaching the competition, we increased frequency and
volume to a level that approached her traditional schedules.
Interestingly, I designed a shock microcycle where she performed I
believe 13 hard workouts in 7 days, and although I was expecting her
best results to occur 7-10 days following this, she actually did a
lifetime PR front squat during the last workout of this phase.
Although she did very well at the trials, I believe if she had
competed on the last day of that microcycle, she would have done even
better.
What happened? One idea on all of this is that for example, when you
rest between sets, you never achieve complete recovery, because if
you did, neural activation would drop off too much. So perhaps this
same phenomenon can occur on a macro level as well?
Charles Staley
Myo Dynamics
(800) 519-2492
http://www.myodynamics.com
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Subject: Re: chicken recipes?
From: "Delphene" <dhe...@interbaun.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 00:08:34 -0700
Steve a really great way to cook these ahead is to put a bunch of chicken
breasts into a slow cooker and pour over lo-cal italian dressing and let
them cook. Very juicy and tender and tastey.
delphene
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