Normal people ?
Hans Kaplan
I played chess some years in Sweden, now its very clear for me that
chesspeople in
general are not as other people. Sorry to say, I found them not
trustable but dishonest
and strange. Many are asocial. Ofcourse not all, but an unnormal big
percent.
I worked 7 years as a teacher, I teached people much older than me. My
experience of
grown-up people is big. Among chess-players I can hardly find a real
grown-up.
Some leaders in the chessclubs, working with children, are something
like authists, people
that you cant talk with in a normal way, more like robots.
In the chessfederation we find very strange men, never worked with other
stoff than chess.
How is the situation in Shogi around the word ?
Is there the same problem ?
For me it seem to be so here in Sweden, the shogifederation is only some
years old,
now some of the most stupid chessplayers started to play Shogi.
(One of them is spitting and pinking on graves in the nights, only one
but a very good
example)
I started to like the game more than chess, my relatives and I own some
houses in the
Stockholm area, I thought of starting a good place for both Shogi and
chessplaying,
to give normal people an alternative to the dull place they play now.
The leader for the Shogifed,. here, Danerud, started a conversation with
me with a mail.
When I told him that I thought of starting a Shogi-club, he didnt even
answer !
It doesnt at all surprise me, that the situation is the same in this
sector.
Compare with what was written 2 weeks ago about "how is the brain
affected".
A big mistake is to believe that chess or Shogiplayers in general have a
high IQ.
Its the opposite. The brain is getting programmed of these things, only
programmed
for chess or Shogi. Cause the diff. its very good to play the booth.
But the brain must be used in some other areas to get good working.
I have read the "latest" about braincells and what they need.
Something to think about for you playing very much.
There are many much more relevant problems in the life than how to
capture ...
Good luck. I leave this soon, answer now !
Kees Wiebering
A bad day in moose land?
> Good luck. I leave this soon, answer now !
You seem to have a point somewhere in this. But being a narrowminded chess
and shogi player, I could not find it :)
Here's a suggestion:
Sit down quietly... Breathe through the nose... :) Sip some Absolute. It
will all be better in the morning.
Greetings, Kees Wiebering
Albrecht Heeffer
> A big mistake is to believe that chess or Shogiplayers in
> general have a high IQ.
> Its the opposite. The brain is getting programmed of these
> things, only programmed for chess or Shogi.
There exists a fair body of scientific studies on this matter.
In 1925 Djakow, Petrowski, and Rudik studied grandmasters to
determine the underlying factors of chess talent. The researchers
determined that high achievement in chess is based on exceptional
visual memory, combination power, speed of calculation, power of
concentration, and logical thinking. All of these talents
correlate positively with a high IQ, although a high IQ might
involve other abilities not needed for chess. So it is generally
considered that a high IQ is a necessary but not a sufficient
condition for grandmaster level chess. I would assume these
findings are valid for shogi professionals as well. It's my
guess that the average IQ of all shogi professionals is
significantly above 100.
> I played chess some years in Sweden, now its very clear for me that
> chesspeople in general are not as other people. Sorry to say,
> I found them not trustable but dishonest
> and strange. Many are asocial. Ofcourse not all, but an unnormal big
> percent.
I am not familiar with any scientific work about the
trustworthiness of chess players. I do not see what factors would
differentiate chess players from the rest. You seem to
have bad experiences. All I can say is that in the chess and
shogi clubs that I frequented I found people to be very social
and friendly. Try some European tournaments like in Nijmegen,
Holland, I find these socially fulfilling and have a lot of fun.
Albrecht Heeffer
Malcolm
night) as long as I have (driving taxis), I would say the people you're
talking about are the kind who take some hobbies and pastimes much too
seriously. I like playing shogi for fun. With emphasis on the word "fun,"
but too many people (like some you've described) have a pretty strange idea
of what 'fun' is!
--
<=------------------------------------------=>
Malcolm B. Maynard
e-mail: vind...@uniserve.com
Postal: P.O. Box 18534
Delta, BC
V4K 4V7
Canada
<=------------------------------------------=>
Larry Kaufman
>Hallo Shogi-players
>
>I played chess some years in Sweden, now its very clear for me that
>chesspeople in
>general are not as other people. Sorry to say, I found them not
>trustable but dishonest
>and strange. Many are asocial. Ofcourse not all, but an unnormal big
>percent.
My own experience in the U.S. (and to a lesser extent in Europe) is
that while there are both nice people and not-so-nice people in both chess
and shogi, the percentage in the first category is much higher in shogi.
One reason is that many chess players are looking to make money from chess,
while there is almost no financial incentive to play shogi in the west, so
it does not attract greedy people. Also, the ranking and handicap system
forces a certain modesty and makes for friendly play; especially when a
handicap game is played, there is no ego rivalry, as the handicap has
already established which player is the stronger. Egomaniacs tend to drop
shogi quickly when they realize they cannot even pretend to be much
stronger than they really are.
In Japan the situation may be more like chess is here; it's difficult
for me to tell as I'm not very fluent in Japanese and nearly everyone is
nice to me when I'm there. Politeness is such a vital part of the culture
that few people in any field act rudely there.
Larry Kaufman, amateur 5 Dan
Jeroen J.-W. Tiggelman
> chesspeople in general are not as other people. [..] I found them not
> trustable but dishonest and strange. Many are asocial. [..] Among
> chess-players I can hardly find a real grown-up. [..] In the
> chessfederation we find very strange men, never worked with other
> stoff than chess.
One could wonder whether the main characteristics of what you observed
are defined by the people playing chess, or more colored by what people
are noticeably oriented to one activity only (which would happen to be
chess).
> How is the situation in Shogi [..] For me it seem to be so here in
> Sweden, the shogifederation is only some years old, now some of the
> most stupid chessplayers started to play Shogi.
I guess these things happen. Are you surprised?
> I started to like the game more than chess, [..] I thought of
> starting a good place for both Shogi and chessplaying, to give normal
> people an alternative to the dull place they play now.
Overall you sound very excitable yourself. I cut all the information
you included apparently to show how qualified you are to make judgements
about these things, or to organize something you apparently think
must be much better than anything people in Sweden might possibly
enjoy now.
I don't think that's a good starting point - you might get across as
more than a little pushy yourself. I'd say this was somewhat ironical.
> The leader for the Shogifed,. here, Danerud, started a conversation
> with me with a mail. When I told him that I thought of starting a
> Shogi-club, he didnt even answer ! It doesnt at all surprise me, that
> the situation is the same in this sector.
And you proceed by discussing this little occurrence on the mailing
list like this, and in such a context as to suggest there would be
something wrong with him? It might be that you come across as not that
easy to work with, or not enthusing people to work with you. THAT would
not at all surprise ME, and would perfectly explain why you'd find all
sorts of sectors to be like that.
> Compare with what was written 2 weeks ago about "how is the brain
> affected". A big mistake is to believe that chess or Shogiplayers in
> general have a high IQ.
Of course it is. No correlation is to be expected at all IMO.
> Its the opposite. The brain is getting programmed of these things,
> only programmed for chess or Shogi.
I think you have very odd notions about IQ. It tends not to be
influenced much by any particular training. If you practice with
typical IQ tests you may be able to gain a few point on the score,
but not much. And that's just influencing the appearance, not the
actual intelligence level.
> Cause the diff. its very good to play the booth. But the brain
> must be used in some other areas to get good working.
IQ is not very related to social skills at all, as far as I can tell.
I would suggest to distinguish "intelligence" from "wisdom",
"knowledge", etc.
> I have read the "latest" about braincells and what they need.
In your case, I'd guess they could use some rest. Don't worry to much
about these things. Don't try to find some connection between all
these things one way or another. Just try to have fun playing whatever
game you find you like, and see that you find some people you like to
play with.
> Good luck. I leave this soon, answer now !
I think you'd be better of being a bit more relaxed. What does it
matter when you get an answer? With email you should be able to read
it whenever you get around to it?
--
--Jeroen--------------------------------------------------
Tiggelman jtig...@casema.net (private)
Hans Kaplan
Never take a game too serious.
I am happy for the responce to my controversial mail, and ofcourse I am wrong
in some way.
Hans Kaplan
> I think you'd be better of being a bit more relaxed. What does it
> matter when you get an answer? With email you should be able to read
> it whenever you get around to it?
>
> --
> --Jeroen--------------------------------------------------
> Tiggelman jtig...@casema.net (private)
If you used your brain better You should understand that what I leave is
this list.
That example is enough of your wrong thinking and stupid extrapolations.
Bye all !
Jeroen J.-W. Tiggelman
> leave is this list.
I did. You apparently did not understand my reply, though.
Or perhaps you thought that a "clever" reply to that part would
make some sort of neat impression, while you were meanwhile
ignoring all the other points.
> That example is enough of your wrong thinking and stupid
> extrapolations.
LOL! No sense of irony, I guess? Talk about stupid extrapolations...
If you ahve any further equally vapid replies, I propose
you send them to me privately rather than to the list.
And happy trolling elsewhere,
DANERUD MARTIN
>The leader for the Shogifed,. here, Danerud, started a conversation =
with
>me with a mail.
>When I told him that I thought of starting a Shogi-club, he didnt even
>answer !
>It doesnt at all surprise me, that the situation is the same in this
>sector.
Thank you for your comments, Hans!
Unfortunately, I was off for a few days on professional duty, so I could =
not
answer your e-mails.
We have built up the Swedish Shogi Federation to be the biggest one in =
Europe
in less than three years. That is recognized by most normal people as a =
great effort.
You can find our charter at our homepage.
It states the following:
"The terms of membership in the Swedish Shogi Federation are the =
following:
Payment to the Swedish Shogi Federation of the annual fee, stipulated by =
the federation
Loyalty to the stipulated charter of the Swedish Shogi Federation
Sportmanship behaviour"
If any of our members would violate the charter, that member would of =
course be
excluded as a member. However, all our tournaments and events have been =
held in a
truthfully nice and friendly atmosphere.
If you are interested in founding a shogi club in Stockholm, you are of =
course welcome
(but then you will also have to follow the terms of membership...). The =
foundation of a
club in the Swedish Shogi Federation is also stipulated in the charter.
I have been a chess player for twenty years, and I also know that there =
are some strange
people in the chess community. However, "normal people" are in great =
majority, and of
course all people are welcome as long as they follow the charters.
Frankly, I do not understand how a couple of strange e-mails to Shogi-L =
would be able to
attract more "normal people" to shogi, especially since almost all the =
shogi players I have met
around the world are already perfectly OK. Maybe one day we should =
consult you, if we get
any problems of the kind you describe...
Sincerely yours,
Dr. Martin =
Danerud
President of the =
Swedish Shogi Federation
storv...@gmail.com
>
> I played chess some years in Sweden, now its very clear for me that
> general are not as other people. Sorry to say, I found them not
> trustable but dishonest
> percent.
> I worked 7 years as a teacher, I teached people much older than me. My
> experience of
> grown-up.
> like authists, people
> that you cant talk with in a normal way, more like robots.
> stoff than chess.
>
> Is there the same problem ?
> years old,
> now some of the most stupid chessplayers started to play Shogi.
> but a very good
> example)
> I started to like the game more than chess, my relatives and I own some
> houses in the
> to give normal people an alternative to the dull place they play now.
> When I told him that I thought of starting a Shogi-club, he didnt even
> answer !
> It doesnt at all surprise me, that the situation is the same in this
> sector.
>
> affected".
> A big mistake is to believe that chess or Shogiplayers in general have a
> high IQ.
> programmed
> There are many much more relevant problems in the life than how to
> capture ...
>
Chessplayers in general ARE consisting of mainly never growing up fools, staying at the puberty stadium and low level discussions far from the subjekt.
And the situation IS the same among shogiplayers.
To solve that problem evry sad fool need to chenge behavior and do something else than playing games, and if playing games is necessary, mix several gametypes. shogi is affecting the braincells as bad as chess, like direct current destoys cells more that alternate current.
So first of all try to understand what is the subject. To explain deeper for fools here, the subject is not I.