XFree86 on Digital PWS600au

[Marco Beishuizen]

Hi,

I revived a PWS600au, mainly for fun. NetBSD 7.0.1 runs fine but now I'd
like to try X on it. I replaced the Powerstorm 4D60T for a Matrox
G450PCI. This computer had a working X on FreeBSD/alpha about 10 years
ago.

Entering startx results in:

_XSERVTransSocketCreateListener: failed to bind listener
_XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed
_XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListener: failed to create listener for local

waiting for X server to begin accepting connections unable to get frame
buffer info: Inappropriate ioctl for device
Fatal server error:
no screens found

giving up
xinit: Connection refused (errno 61): unable to connect to X server
xinit: No such process (errno 3): Server error.

I thought this could be because of a missing XF86Config file, but entering
X -configure doesn't work on my alpha.

Does anyone know what to do from here to make X work on a PWS?

Thanks in advance,
Marco

--
Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who
will get the blame.
-- Dr. Laurence J. Peter

[Michael Kronsteiner]

does netbsd boot into framebuffer mode? if so, running X should be as
easy as "startx" using wscons / ws framebuffer driver.

if not you have to specify driver module for X, iE if your machine
boots into normal text mode.

in case of doubt, try another (as simple as possible) graphics card

YMMV

[BERTRAND Joël]

Michael Kronsteiner a écrit :

> does netbsd boot into framebuffer mode? if so, running X should be as
> easy as "startx" using wscons / ws framebuffer driver.
>
> if not you have to specify driver module for X, iE if your machine
> boots into normal text mode.
>
> in case of doubt, try another (as simple as possible) graphics card

I have a PWS500au and I have tested without any success several graphic
adapter (8bits provided by DEC, a 32 bits PowerStorm, two Matrox...).
With insecure kernel (7.0.x and current), I have tested Xfree86 and Xorg
with same results. On better case, X crashes before card initialization
(cannot map /dev/mem). On worse, system panics.

Regards,

JKB

[Marco Beishuizen]

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016, the wise Michael Kronsteiner wrote:

> does netbsd boot into framebuffer mode? if so, running X should be as
> easy as "startx" using wscons / ws framebuffer driver.

I don't know, it boots into the console and I try to start X with startx.

> if not you have to specify driver module for X, iE if your machine boots
> into normal text mode.

First thing I would like to do is to create a config file but have no idea
how. "X -configure" doesn't work and there is no XF86Config or XF86Setup
script on the system.

> in case of doubt, try another (as simple as possible) graphics card

Yeah, but the Matrox is the only PCI card I have lying around, and it did
work 10 years ago.

--
What you see is from outside yourself, and may come, or not, but is beyond
your control. But your fear is yours, and yours alone, like your voice, or
your fingers, or your memory, and therefore yours to control. If you feel
powerless over your fear, you have not yet admitted that it is yours, to do
with as you will.
-- Marion Zimmer Bradley, "Stormqueen"

[Michael Kronsteiner]

On Tue, 2016-09-06 at 19:32 +0200, Marco Beishuizen wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Sep 2016, the wise Michael Kronsteiner wrote:
>
> >
> > does netbsd boot into framebuffer mode? if so, running X should be
> > as 
> > easy as "startx" using wscons / ws framebuffer driver.
>
> I don't know, it boots into the console and I try to start X with
> startx.
>

does your console look like "drawn" characters or more like simple text
mode? drawn is framebuffer, text mode is no graphics driver loaded
"fallback" mode

> >
> > if not you have to specify driver module for X, iE if your machine
> > boots 
> > into normal text mode.
>
> First thing I would like to do is to create a config file but have no
> idea 
> how. "X -configure" doesn't work and there is no XF86Config or
> XF86Setup 
> script on the system.
>
> >
> > in case of doubt, try another (as simple as possible) graphics card
>
> Yeah, but the Matrox is the only PCI card I have lying around, and it
> did 

graphics and X drivers on alpha are funny stuff. i had many headaches
to get voodoo3 3000pci running with accelleration. maybe an old ati
card might do the trick ("rage" series). matrox mga also had issues i
never dived into, as not owning one.

alpha architecture is pretty much dead lately, so you will have to
trick around on your own a bit.



> work 10 years ago.
>
see?

maybe using it simple as VGA framebuffer does the trick. no
accelleration then though.

[Marco Beishuizen]

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016, the wise Michael Kronsteiner wrote:

> does your console look like "drawn" characters or more like simple text
> mode? drawn is framebuffer, text mode is no graphics driver loaded
> "fallback" mode

Doesn't look like framebuffer to me, just typical console text.

> see?
>
> maybe using it simple as VGA framebuffer does the trick. no
> accelleration then though.

Maybe I should try this first.

But I get the feeling that I'm missing something on this system. It
doesn't have the normal Xorg/Xfree86 installed but X is a symlink to
"XdecNetBSD", and there isn't a config file and it lokks like there are no
drivers installed in /usr/X11R6/lib/modules.

--
Is this really happening?

[Michael Kronsteiner]

Xdecnetbsd is afaik only good for (turbochannel?) framebuffer devices,
usually named P***. maybe your old card falls under this supported
models. do you use arm or alphabios? this might also make a difference.

its like falling out of a long sleep again, as you can see there is not
much action on this list

[David Brownlee]

On 7 September 2016 at 19:35, Michael Kronsteiner <alph...@gmx.at> wrote:
> Xdecnetbsd is afaik only good for (turbochannel?) framebuffer devices,
> usually named P***. maybe your old card falls under this supported
> models. do you use arm or alphabios? this might also make a difference.
>
> its like falling out of a long sleep again, as you can see there is not
> much action on this list

<CompleteTangent>
If you have a TURBOchannel Alpha and are feeling particularly perverse
you could always get one of these http://www.flxd.de/tc-usb/ and a
DisplayLink DL-1x0/1x5 :)
</CompleteTangent>

[Marco Beishuizen]

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016, the wise Michael Kronsteiner wrote:

> Xdecnetbsd is afaik only good for (turbochannel?) framebuffer devices,
> usually named P***. maybe your old card falls under this supported
> models. do you use arm or alphabios? this might also make a difference.
>
> its like falling out of a long sleep again, as you can see there is not
> much action on this list

The original Powerstorm 4D60T isn't supported by any X version afaik,
that's why I replaced it for a Matrox G450PCI, which was supported 10
years ago.

The machine boots from an SRM console, BSD cannot boot from AlphaBIOS
(which was for WinNT only).

--
Please try to limit the amount of "this room doesn't have any bazingas"
until you are told that those rooms are "punched out." Once punched out,
we have a right to complain about atrocities, missing bazingas, and such.
-- N. Meyrowitz

[Michael Kronsteiner]

whatever, its a pci system, so Xdecnetbsd stuff is for sure not the
server you want. it seems you need to do some package shuffling, and
editing of config files. looking onto an X86 install might definitely
help here, as pci alphas and wintels are quite similar

[Michael Kronsteiner]

any steps ahead? at least i am still interested...

[Manuel Bouyer]

On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 11:23:28PM +0200, Michael Kronsteiner wrote:
> any steps ahead? at least i am still interested...

several persons suggested rebuilding NetBSD with Xorg, did you try that ?

--
Manuel Bouyer <bou...@antioche.eu.org>
NetBSD: 26 ans d'experience feront toujours la difference
--

[Marco Beishuizen]

On Sat, 10 Sep 2016, the wise Michael Kronsteiner wrote:

> any steps ahead? at least i am still interested...
>

Sorry, I've been away for the last few days. At this moment trying to
install Xorg from pkgsrc. There are some hickups like pkg conflicts but it
looks ok so far. I'll be back with the results when it's finished.

Regards,
Marco

--
FORTUNE REMEMBERS THE GREAT MOTHERS: #5

"And, and, and, and, but, but, but, but!"
-- Mrs. Janice Markowsky, April 8, 1965

[Marco Beishuizen]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, the wise Marco Beishuizen wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Sep 2016, the wise Michael Kronsteiner wrote:
>
>> any steps ahead? at least i am still interested...
>>
>
> Sorry, I've been away for the last few days. At this moment trying to install
> Xorg from pkgsrc. There are some hickups like pkg conflicts but it looks ok
> so far. I'll be back with the results when it's finished.

Eventually, x11/modular-xorg-server fails to build with little
information. During the build of
./work/xorg-server-1.18.4/hw/xfree86/os-support/bsd/alpha-video.lo it
exits. The only message I got was that "some warnings are handled as
errors". So I'd be happy if someone has a pointer what to do next.

Thanks & regards,
Marco

[Michael Kronsteiner]

gcc and glibc on alpha are a picky thing. try "--ignore-doodah" or a
lower optimozation level

On Tue, 2016-09-13 at 19:35 +0200, Marco Beishuizen wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, the wise Marco Beishuizen wrote:
>
> >
> > On Sat, 10 Sep 2016, the wise Michael Kronsteiner wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > any steps ahead? at least i am still interested...
> > >
> >
> > Sorry, I've been away for the last few days. At this moment trying
> > to install 
> > Xorg from pkgsrc. There are some hickups like pkg conflicts but it
> > looks ok 
> > so far. I'll be back with the results when it's finished.
>
> Eventually, x11/modular-xorg-server fails to build with little 
> information. During the build of 

> ../work/xorg-server-1.18.4/hw/xfree86/os-support/bsd/alpha-video.lo

[Marco Beishuizen]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, the wise Marco Beishuizen wrote:

> Eventually, x11/modular-xorg-server fails to build with little
> information. During the build of

> ../work/xorg-server-1.18.4/hw/xfree86/os-support/bsd/alpha-video.lo it

> exits. The only message I got was that "some warnings are handled as
> errors". So I'd be happy if someone has a pointer what to do next.

I managed to install an Xorg version with the needed patches that are not
in pkgsrc.

After that, in order to run X on NetBSD, the "options INSECURE" needed to
be set (Xorg needs the sysctl kern.securelevel to be -1 or 0).

After rebuilding the GENERIC kernel with this option set though, X crashes
immediately when running startx. That is, NetBSD exits immediately to the
SRM console, without error logs in /var/log or core dumps. It doesn't
look like a kernel panic either. Only messages in the SRM console are:
halt code = 6
double error halt

Regards,
Marco

--
Mother seemed pleased by my draft notice. "Just think of all
the people in England, they've chosen you, it's a great honour, son."
Laughingly I felled her with a right cross.
-- Spike Milligan