[2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal

13 views
Skip to first unread message

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 11:15:02 AM7/26/05
to linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
support the same hardware) for removal.


Signed-off-by: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>

---

I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible for one
or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA people.

Please tell if any my driver selections is wrong.

Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt | 7 +
sound/oss/Kconfig | 79 ++++++++++++---------
2 files changed, 54 insertions(+), 32 deletions(-)

--- linux-2.6.13-rc3-mm1-full/Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt.old 2005-07-26 16:50:05.000000000 +0200
+++ linux-2.6.13-rc3-mm1-full/Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt 2005-07-26 16:51:24.000000000 +0200
@@ -44,0 +45,7 @@
+What: drivers depending on OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
+When: October 2005
+Why: OSS drivers with ALSA replacements
+Who: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>
+
+---------------------------
+
--- linux-2.6.13-rc3-mm1-modular/sound/oss/Kconfig.old 2005-07-23 21:04:56.000000000 +0200
+++ linux-2.6.13-rc3-mm1-modular/sound/oss/Kconfig 2005-07-24 01:22:11.000000000 +0200
@@ -4,9 +4,24 @@
# More hacking for modularisation.
#
# Prompt user for primary drivers.
+
+config OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
+ bool "Obsolete OSS drivers"
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME
+ help
+ This patch enables support for obsolete OSS drivers that
+ are scheduled for removal in the near future since there
+ are ALSA drivers for the same hardware.
+
+ Please contact Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de> if you had to
+ say Y here because your soundcard is not properly supported
+ by ALSA.
+
+ If unsure, say N.
+
config SOUND_BT878
tristate "BT878 audio dma"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
---help---
Audio DMA support for bt878 based grabber boards. As you might have
already noticed, bt878 is listed with two functions in /proc/pci.
@@ -22,7 +37,7 @@

config SOUND_CMPCI
tristate "C-Media PCI (CMI8338/8738)"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a PCI sound card using the CMI8338
or the CMI8738 chipset. Data on these chips are available at
@@ -61,7 +76,7 @@

config SOUND_EMU10K1
tristate "Creative SBLive! (EMU10K1)"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
---help---
Say Y or M if you have a PCI sound card using the EMU10K1 chipset,
such as the Creative SBLive!, SB PCI512 or Emu-APS.
@@ -95,7 +110,7 @@

config SOUND_CS4281
tristate "Crystal Sound CS4281"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Picture and feature list at
<http://www.pcbroker.com/crystal4281.html>.
@@ -112,7 +127,7 @@

config SOUND_ES1370
tristate "Ensoniq AudioPCI (ES1370)"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a PCI sound card utilizing the Ensoniq
ES1370 chipset, such as Ensoniq's AudioPCI (non-97). To find
@@ -125,7 +140,7 @@

config SOUND_ES1371
tristate "Creative Ensoniq AudioPCI 97 (ES1371)"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a PCI sound card utilizing the Ensoniq
ES1371 chipset, such as Ensoniq's AudioPCI97. To find out if
@@ -138,7 +153,7 @@

config SOUND_ESSSOLO1
tristate "ESS Technology Solo1"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a PCI sound card utilizing the ESS Technology
Solo1 chip. To find out if your sound card uses a
@@ -149,7 +164,7 @@

config SOUND_MAESTRO
tristate "ESS Maestro, Maestro2, Maestro2E driver"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a sound system driven by ESS's Maestro line
of PCI sound chips. These include the Maestro 1, Maestro 2, and
@@ -158,28 +173,28 @@

config SOUND_MAESTRO3
tristate "ESS Maestro3/Allegro driver (EXPERIMENTAL)"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && EXPERIMENTAL
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && EXPERIMENTAL && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a sound system driven by ESS's Maestro 3
PCI sound chip.

config SOUND_ICH
tristate "Intel ICH (i8xx) audio support"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Support for integral audio in Intel's I/O Controller Hub (ICH)
chipset, as used on the 810/820/840 motherboards.

config SOUND_HARMONY
tristate "PA Harmony audio driver"
- depends on GSC_LASI && SOUND_PRIME
+ depends on GSC_LASI && SOUND_PRIME && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say 'Y' or 'M' to include support for Harmony soundchip
on HP 712, 715/new and many other GSC based machines.

config SOUND_SONICVIBES
tristate "S3 SonicVibes"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a PCI sound card utilizing the S3
SonicVibes chipset. To find out if your sound card uses a
@@ -218,7 +233,7 @@

config SOUND_AU1000
tristate "Au1000 Sound"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && (SOC_AU1000 || SOC_AU1100 || SOC_AU1500)
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && (SOC_AU1000 || SOC_AU1100 || SOC_AU1500) && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER

config SOUND_AU1550_AC97
tristate "Au1550 AC97 Sound"
@@ -492,7 +507,7 @@

config SOUND_VIA82CXXX
tristate "VIA 82C686 Audio Codec"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y here to include support for the audio codec found on VIA
82Cxxx-based chips. Typically these are built into a motherboard.
@@ -546,7 +561,7 @@

config SOUND_AD1816
tristate "AD1816(A) based cards (EXPERIMENTAL)"
- depends on EXPERIMENTAL && SOUND_OSS
+ depends on EXPERIMENTAL && SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say M here if you have a sound card based on the Analog Devices
AD1816(A) chip.
@@ -563,7 +578,7 @@

config SOUND_SGALAXY
tristate "Aztech Sound Galaxy (non-PnP) cards"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
This module initializes the older non Plug and Play sound galaxy
cards from Aztech. It supports the Waverider Pro 32 - 3D and the
@@ -599,7 +614,7 @@

config SOUND_CS4232
tristate "Crystal CS4232 based (PnP) cards"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y here if you have a card based on the Crystal CS4232 chip set,
which uses its own Plug and Play protocol.
@@ -613,7 +628,7 @@

config SOUND_SSCAPE
tristate "Ensoniq SoundScape support"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Answer Y if you have a sound card based on the Ensoniq SoundScape
chipset. Such cards are being manufactured at least by Ensoniq, Spea
@@ -625,7 +640,7 @@

config SOUND_GUS
tristate "Gravis Ultrasound support"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y here for any type of Gravis Ultrasound card, including the GUS
or GUS MAX. See also <file:Documentation/sound/oss/ultrasound> for more
@@ -727,7 +742,7 @@

config SOUND_NM256
tristate "NM256AV/NM256ZX audio support"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say M here to include audio support for the NeoMagic 256AV/256ZX
chipsets. These are the audio chipsets found in the Sony
@@ -739,7 +754,7 @@

config SOUND_MAD16
tristate "OPTi MAD16 and/or Mozart based cards"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
---help---
Answer Y if your card has a Mozart (OAK OTI-601) or MAD16 (OPTi
82C928 or 82C929 or 82C931) audio interface chip. These chips are
@@ -860,7 +875,7 @@

config SOUND_AWE32_SYNTH
tristate "AWE32 synth"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y here if you have a Sound Blaster SB32, AWE32-PnP, SB AWE64 or
similar sound card. See <file:Documentation/sound/oss/README.awe>,
@@ -870,7 +885,7 @@

config SOUND_WAVEFRONT
tristate "Full support for Turtle Beach WaveFront (Tropez Plus, Tropez, Maui) synth/soundcards"
- depends on SOUND_OSS && m
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && m && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Answer Y or M if you have a Tropez Plus, Tropez or Maui sound card
and read the files <file:Documentation/sound/oss/Wavefront> and
@@ -878,7 +893,7 @@

config SOUND_MAUI
tristate "Limited support for Turtle Beach Wave Front (Maui, Tropez) synthesizers"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y here if you have a Turtle Beach Wave Front, Maui, or Tropez
sound card.
@@ -904,7 +919,7 @@

config SOUND_YM3812
tristate "Yamaha FM synthesizer (YM3812/OPL-3) support"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
---help---
Answer Y if your card has a FM chip made by Yamaha (OPL2/OPL3/OPL4).
Answering Y is usually a safe and recommended choice, however some
@@ -920,7 +935,7 @@

config SOUND_OPL3SA1
tristate "Yamaha OPL3-SA1 audio controller"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a Yamaha OPL3-SA1 sound chip, which is
usually built into motherboards. Read
@@ -932,7 +947,7 @@

config SOUND_OPL3SA2
tristate "Yamaha OPL3-SA2 and SA3 based PnP cards"
- depends on SOUND_OSS
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a card based on one of these Yamaha sound
chipsets or the "SAx", which is actually a SA3. Read
@@ -946,7 +961,7 @@

config SOUND_YMFPCI
tristate "Yamaha YMF7xx PCI audio (native mode)"
- depends on SOUND_OSS && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_OSS && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Support for Yamaha cards including the YMF711, YMF715, YMF718,
YMF719, YMF724, Waveforce 192XG, and Waveforce 192 Digital.
@@ -1088,11 +1103,11 @@

config SOUND_ALI5455
tristate "ALi5455 audio support"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER

config SOUND_FORTE
tristate "ForteMedia FM801 driver"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you want driver support for the ForteMedia FM801 PCI
audio controller (Abit AU10, Genius Sound Maker, HP Workstation
@@ -1100,7 +1115,7 @@

config SOUND_RME96XX
tristate "RME Hammerfall (RME96XX) support"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && PCI && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
help
Say Y or M if you have a Hammerfall or Hammerfall light
multichannel card from RME. If you want to access advanced
@@ -1108,7 +1123,7 @@

config SOUND_AD1980
tristate "AD1980 front/back switch plugin"
- depends on SOUND_PRIME
+ depends on SOUND_PRIME && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER

config SOUND_SH_DAC_AUDIO
tristate "SuperH DAC audio support"

-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majo...@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Jesper Juhl

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 11:42:50 AM7/26/05
to Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com

s/patch/option/ ???

--
Jesper Juhl <jespe...@gmail.com>
Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

Thomas Sailer

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 11:47:04 AM7/26/05
to Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 17:08 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> support the same hardware) for removal.
>
>
> Signed-off-by: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>
Acked-by: Thomas Sailer <sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch>

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 11:52:10 AM7/26/05
to Jesper Juhl, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 05:41:31PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:
>...

> > + This patch enables support for obsolete OSS drivers that
>
> s/patch/option/ ???

Sure.

I'll correct this before resending the patch.

cu
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

Lee Revell

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 11:54:14 AM7/26/05
to Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 17:08 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> support the same hardware) for removal.

How many non-obsolete OSS drivers were there?

Lee

Jeff Garzik

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 12:04:22 PM7/26/05
to Lee Revell, Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
Lee Revell wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 17:08 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>
>>This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
>>support the same hardware) for removal.
>
>
> How many non-obsolete OSS drivers were there?

someone needs to test the remaining PCI ID(s) that are in i810_audio but
not ALSA.

Lee Revell

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 12:09:17 PM7/26/05
to Jeff Garzik, Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 11:57 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> Lee Revell wrote:
> > On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 17:08 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> >
> >>This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> >>support the same hardware) for removal.
> >
> >
> > How many non-obsolete OSS drivers were there?
>
> someone needs to test the remaining PCI ID(s) that are in i810_audio but
> not ALSA.
>

Good luck finding someone with all that old hardware...

Lee

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 12:12:13 PM7/26/05
to Jeff Garzik, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 11:48:04AM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> Adrian Bunk wrote:
> >This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> >support the same hardware) for removal.
> >
> >
> >Signed-off-by: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>
> >
> >---
> >
> >I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible for one
> >or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA people.
> >
> >Please tell if any my driver selections is wrong.
> >
> > Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt | 7 +
> > sound/oss/Kconfig | 79 ++++++++++++---------
> > 2 files changed, 54 insertions(+), 32 deletions(-)
>
> Please CHECK before doing this.

I did (but I don't claim that I didn't miss anything).

> ACK for via82cxxx.

Thanks.

> NAK for i810_audio: ALSA doesn't have all the PCI IDs (which must be
> verified -- you cannot just add the PCI IDs for some hardware)

I though I found every single PCI ID from this driver in ALSA.
Which PCI IDs did I miss?

> Jeff

cu
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Andrew Haninger

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 12:24:36 PM7/26/05
to Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On 7/26/05, Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de> wrote:
> config SOUND_OPL3SA2
> tristate "Yamaha OPL3-SA2 and SA3 based PnP cards"
> - depends on SOUND_OSS
> + depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
> help
> Say Y or M if you have a card based on one of these Yamaha sound
> chipsets or the "SAx", which is actually a SA3. Read
Forgive me if I'm misreading this (I'm hardly a coder and no kernel
hacker) but, as it stands, the OPL3SA2 driver provided by ALSA and the
main kernel tree work but are not correctly detected by ALSA's
detection routines (in alsaconf) on the 2.6 kernel. The OSS drivers
work, as well, but (AFAIK) there are no methods of automatic
configuration with the OSS drivers.

So, for people who don't feel like configuring ALSA with their OPL3SA2
card, the OSS modules may be easier to configure and thus should be
left in until the ALSA/2.6 kernel problems are worked out with the
OPL3SA2.

-Andy

Zach Brown

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 12:33:58 PM7/26/05
to Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
Adrian Bunk wrote:
> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> support the same hardware) for removal.

> I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible for one

> or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA people.

I haven't touched the maestro drivers in so long (for near-total lack of
docs, etc.) that I can't be considered authoritative for approving it's
removal. If people are relying on it I certainly don't know who they
are. In better news, Takashi should now have the pile of maestro
hardware that I used in the first pass to help him maintain the ALSA
driver..

- z

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 12:36:20 PM7/26/05
to Lee Revell, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 11:51:13AM -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 17:08 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> > support the same hardware) for removal.
>
> How many non-obsolete OSS drivers were there?

I haven't counted them, but there are still many.

> Lee

cu
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Jeff Garzik

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 12:43:48 PM7/26/05
to Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
Adrian Bunk wrote:
> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> support the same hardware) for removal.
>
>
> Signed-off-by: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>
>
> ---
>
> I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible for one
> or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA people.
>
> Please tell if any my driver selections is wrong.
>
> Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt | 7 +
> sound/oss/Kconfig | 79 ++++++++++++---------
> 2 files changed, 54 insertions(+), 32 deletions(-)

Please CHECK before doing this.

ACK for via82cxxx.

NAK for i810_audio: ALSA doesn't have all the PCI IDs (which must be
verified -- you cannot just add the PCI IDs for some hardware)

Jeff

Lee Revell

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 12:53:18 PM7/26/05
to Jeff Garzik, Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 11:48 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> NAK for i810_audio: ALSA doesn't have all the PCI IDs (which must be
> verified -- you cannot just add the PCI IDs for some hardware)

Some of them might be in snd-hda-intel in addition to snd-intel8x0.

Lee

Gene Heskett

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 1:13:02 PM7/26/05
to linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tuesday 26 July 2005 11:48, Jeff Garzik wrote:
>Adrian Bunk wrote:
>> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
>> support the same hardware) for removal.
>>
>>
>> Signed-off-by: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible
>> for one or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA
>> people.
>>
>> Please tell if any my driver selections is wrong.
>>
>> Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt | 7 +
>> sound/oss/Kconfig | 79
>> ++++++++++++--------- 2 files changed, 54 insertions(+), 32
>> deletions(-)
>
>Please CHECK before doing this.
>
>ACK for via82cxxx.

I'm still running a box that needs this one. The darned thing refuses
to die. :)

>NAK for i810_audio: ALSA doesn't have all the PCI IDs (which must
> be verified -- you cannot just add the PCI IDs for some hardware)
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>-
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
> linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majo...@vger.kernel.org
>More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
99.35% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly
Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above
message by Gene Heskett are:
Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.

John W. Linville

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 2:04:11 PM7/26/05
to Lee Revell, Jeff Garzik, Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 12:49:46PM -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 11:48 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > NAK for i810_audio: ALSA doesn't have all the PCI IDs (which must be
> > verified -- you cannot just add the PCI IDs for some hardware)
>
> Some of them might be in snd-hda-intel in addition to snd-intel8x0.

Hmmm...I don't think that would work. If there are IDs listed in
both i810_audio and snd-hda-intel, it is probably a mistake.

John
--
John W. Linville
linv...@tuxdriver.com

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 2:21:13 PM7/26/05
to Gene Heskett, linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 01:03:39PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 July 2005 11:48, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> >Adrian Bunk wrote:
> >> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> >> support the same hardware) for removal.
> >>
> >>
> >> Signed-off-by: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible
> >> for one or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA
> >> people.
> >>
> >> Please tell if any my driver selections is wrong.
> >>
> >> Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt | 7 +
> >> sound/oss/Kconfig | 79
> >> ++++++++++++--------- 2 files changed, 54 insertions(+), 32
> >> deletions(-)
> >
> >Please CHECK before doing this.
> >
> >ACK for via82cxxx.
>
> I'm still running a box that needs this one. The darned thing refuses
> to die. :)
>...


Why doesn't the ALSA driver work for you?


> Cheers, Gene


cu
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Krzysztof Halasa

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 5:48:38 PM7/26/05
to Zach Brown, Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
Zach Brown <z...@zabbo.net> writes:

> I haven't touched the maestro drivers in so long (for near-total lack of
> docs, etc.) that I can't be considered authoritative for approving it's
> removal.

Maestro3 ALSA does work fine for me.
--
Krzysztof Halasa

Gene Heskett

unread,
Jul 26, 2005, 11:21:20 PM7/26/05
to linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tuesday 26 July 2005 14:13, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 01:03:39PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Tuesday 26 July 2005 11:48, Jeff Garzik wrote:
>> >Adrian Bunk wrote:
>> >> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers
>> >> that support the same hardware) for removal.
[...]

>> >ACK for via82cxxx.
>>
>> I'm still running a box that needs this one. The darned thing
>> refuses to die. :)
>>...
>
>Why doesn't the ALSA driver work for you?

Humm, I missread that it was OSS you were talking about, my bad.

I'll go quietly officer. :(

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
99.35% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly
Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above
message by Gene Heskett are:
Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.

Zoran Dzelajlija

unread,
Jul 27, 2005, 9:07:08 AM7/27/05
to linux-...@vger.kernel.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
Zach Brown <z...@zabbo.net> wrote:
> Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> > support the same hardware) for removal.

> > I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible for one
> > or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA people.

> I haven't touched the maestro drivers in so long (for near-total lack of
> docs, etc.) that I can't be considered authoritative for approving it's
> removal. If people are relying on it I certainly don't know who they
> are. In better news, Takashi should now have the pile of maestro
> hardware that I used in the first pass to help him maintain the ALSA
> driver..

The OSS maestro driver works better on my old Armada E500 laptop. I tried
ALSA after switching to 2.6, but the computer hung with 2.6.8.1 or 2.6.10 if
I touched the volume buttons. With OSS they just work. The four separate
dsp devices also look kind of more useful.

Zoran

Kyle McMartin

unread,
Jul 27, 2005, 2:48:18 PM7/27/05
to Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 05:08:37PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> support the same hardware) for removal.

oss/harmony.c can probably go, unless someone from parisc-linux
objects. I've written a (working) replacement[1] for oss/ad1889.c
which is in our cvs, and will go upstream shortly. oss/ad1889.c
doesn't (and hasn't ever) worked, so it should probably be removed.

Stuart, Randolph, comments?

1. http://cvs.parisc-linux.org/linux-2.6/sound/pci/ad1889.c?rev=1.30&view=markup

Cheers,
--
Kyle McMartin

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 27, 2005, 3:38:56 PM7/27/05
to Jeff Garzik, Lee Revell, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 11:57:04AM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> Lee Revell wrote:
> >On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 17:08 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> >
> >>This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> >>support the same hardware) for removal.
> >
> >
> >How many non-obsolete OSS drivers were there?
>
> someone needs to test the remaining PCI ID(s) that are in i810_audio but
> not ALSA.

I've grep'ed a second time for every single PCI ID in the OSS
i810_audio, and I still haven't found WTF you are talking about.

Once again my question:

I though I found every single PCI ID from this driver in ALSA.
Which PCI IDs did I miss?

cu
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

John W. Linville

unread,
Jul 27, 2005, 4:47:23 PM7/27/05
to Adrian Bunk, Jeff Garzik, Lee Revell, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 08:24:28PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:

> I've grep'ed a second time for every single PCI ID in the OSS
> i810_audio, and I still haven't found WTF you are talking about.

I looked as well, and I found nothing either.

Jeff, can you enlighten us?

John
--
John W. Linville
linv...@tuxdriver.com

Jeff Garzik

unread,
Jul 27, 2005, 4:51:36 PM7/27/05
to John W. Linville, Adrian Bunk, Lee Revell, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, Alan Cox
John W. Linville wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 08:24:28PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>
>
>>I've grep'ed a second time for every single PCI ID in the OSS
>>i810_audio, and I still haven't found WTF you are talking about.
>
>
> I looked as well, and I found nothing either.
>
> Jeff, can you enlighten us?


ISTR Alan saying there was some ALi hardware that either wasn't in ALSA,
or most likely didn't work in ALSA. If Alan says I'm smoking crack,
then you all can ignore me :)

Jeff

Lee Revell

unread,
Jul 27, 2005, 7:33:34 PM7/27/05
to Zoran Dzelajlija, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Wed, 2005-07-27 at 01:38 +0200, Zoran Dzelajlija wrote:
> The OSS maestro driver works better on my old Armada E500 laptop. I tried
> ALSA after switching to 2.6, but the computer hung with 2.6.8.1 or 2.6.10 if
> I touched the volume buttons.

Please test a newer ALSA version, like the one in 2.6.12.

Lee

RogérioBrito

unread,
Jul 27, 2005, 8:00:04 PM7/27/05
to Lee Revell, Zoran Dzelajlija, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Jul 27 2005, Lee Revell wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-07-27 at 01:38 +0200, Zoran Dzelajlija wrote:
> > The OSS maestro driver works better on my old Armada E500 laptop.
> > I tried ALSA after switching to 2.6, but the computer hung with
> > 2.6.8.1 or 2.6.10 if I touched the volume buttons.
>
> Please test a newer ALSA version, like the one in 2.6.12.

I have an Armada V300 laptop that uses the maestro2 chipset (and I
wouldn't be surprised if your E500 used that very same chip) and it
works fine with the ALSA provided in kernels since the 2.6.10-mm era
(actually, I think it worked fine with even earlier kernels, but I am
not sure).


Just another datapoint, Rogério.

--
Rogério Brito : rbr...@ime.usp.br : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito
Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de
Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/

Randolph Chung

unread,
Jul 27, 2005, 11:04:47 PM7/27/05
to Kyle McMartin, Adrian Bunk, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, zai...@yahoo.com, zw...@commfireservices.com, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, Thorsten Knabe, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, z...@zabbo.net, jga...@pobox.com, pe...@suse.cz

sure, kill the OSS ad1889 driver.

randolph

Takashi Iwai

unread,
Jul 28, 2005, 4:20:01 AM7/28/05
to Zoran Dzelajlija, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
At Wed, 27 Jul 2005 01:38:37 +0200,

Zoran Dzelajlija wrote:
>
> Zach Brown <z...@zabbo.net> wrote:
> > Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> > > support the same hardware) for removal.
>
> > > I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible for one
> > > or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA people.
>
> > I haven't touched the maestro drivers in so long (for near-total lack of
> > docs, etc.) that I can't be considered authoritative for approving it's
> > removal. If people are relying on it I certainly don't know who they
> > are. In better news, Takashi should now have the pile of maestro
> > hardware that I used in the first pass to help him maintain the ALSA
> > driver..
>
> The OSS maestro driver works better on my old Armada E500 laptop. I tried
> ALSA after switching to 2.6, but the computer hung with 2.6.8.1 or 2.6.10 if
> I touched the volume buttons. With OSS they just work. The four separate
> dsp devices also look kind of more useful.

The bug around h/w volume control should have been fixed in the recent
version of ALSA drivers. Hopefully everything will get merged into
2.6.13...


Takashi

Alan Cox

unread,
Jul 28, 2005, 9:43:23 AM7/28/05
to Jeff Garzik, John W. Linville, Adrian Bunk, Lee Revell, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Mer, 2005-07-27 at 16:43 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> ISTR Alan saying there was some ALi hardware that either wasn't in ALSA,
> or most likely didn't work in ALSA. If Alan says I'm smoking crack,
> then you all can ignore me :)

The only big thing I know that still needed OSS (and may still do so) is
the support for AC97 wired touchscreens and the like. Has that been
ported to ALSA ?

Jaroslav Kysela

unread,
Jul 28, 2005, 9:52:02 AM7/28/05
to Alan Cox
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Alan Cox wrote:

> On Mer, 2005-07-27 at 16:43 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > ISTR Alan saying there was some ALi hardware that either wasn't in ALSA,
> > or most likely didn't work in ALSA. If Alan says I'm smoking crack,
> > then you all can ignore me :)
>
> The only big thing I know that still needed OSS (and may still do so) is
> the support for AC97 wired touchscreens and the like. Has that been
> ported to ALSA ?

We're working on this issue right now.

Jaroslav

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <pe...@suse.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project, SUSE Labs

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 28, 2005, 10:21:24 AM7/28/05
to Jaroslav Kysela
On Thu, Jul 28, 2005 at 03:43:49PM +0200, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> > On Mer, 2005-07-27 at 16:43 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > > ISTR Alan saying there was some ALi hardware that either wasn't in ALSA,
> > > or most likely didn't work in ALSA. If Alan says I'm smoking crack,
> > > then you all can ignore me :)
> >
> > The only big thing I know that still needed OSS (and may still do so) is
> > the support for AC97 wired touchscreens and the like. Has that been
> > ported to ALSA ?
>
> We're working on this issue right now.

Does "right now" mean it will be done in a few days or a few months?

I'm asking because in the latter case I'll remove the driver from my
current "scheduled for removal" list.

> Jaroslav

cu
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Thorsten Knabe

unread,
Jul 28, 2005, 11:10:59 AM7/28/05
to Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote:

> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> support the same hardware) for removal.

Hello Adrian.

I'm the maintainer of the OSS AD1816 sound driver. I'm aware of two
problems of the ALSA AD1816 driver, that do not show up with the OSS
driver:
- According to my own experience and user reports audio is choppy with
some VoIP Softphones like gnophone at least when used with the ALSA OSS
emulation layer, whereas the OSS driver is crystal clear.
- Users reported, that on some HP Kayak systems the on-board AD1816A
was not properly detected by the ALSA driver or was detected, but
there was no audio output. I'm not sure if the problem is still present in
the current ALSA driver, as I do not own such a system.

Maybe the OSS driver should stay in the kernel, until those problems are
fixed in the ALSA driver.

Regards
Thorsten

--
___
| | / E-Mail: li...@thorsten-knabe.de
|horsten |/\nabe WWW: http://linux.thorsten-knabe.de

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 28, 2005, 11:34:27 AM7/28/05
to Kyle McMartin, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 02:39:42PM -0400, Kyle McMartin wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 05:08:37PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> > support the same hardware) for removal.
>
> oss/harmony.c can probably go, unless someone from parisc-linux
> objects. I've written a (working) replacement[1] for oss/ad1889.c
> which is in our cvs, and will go upstream shortly. oss/ad1889.c
> doesn't (and hasn't ever) worked, so it should probably be removed.
>...

:-)

The sooner your driver goes through the ALSA people in Linus' tree, the
sooner we can schedule the OSS driver for removal.

> Cheers,
> Kyle McMartin

cu
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 28, 2005, 11:53:32 AM7/28/05
to Thorsten Knabe, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Thu, Jul 28, 2005 at 05:04:20PM +0200, Thorsten Knabe wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>
> >This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> >support the same hardware) for removal.
>
> Hello Adrian.

Hi Thorsten,

> I'm the maintainer of the OSS AD1816 sound driver. I'm aware of two
> problems of the ALSA AD1816 driver, that do not show up with the OSS
> driver:
> - According to my own experience and user reports audio is choppy with
> some VoIP Softphones like gnophone at least when used with the ALSA OSS
> emulation layer, whereas the OSS driver is crystal clear.
> - Users reported, that on some HP Kayak systems the on-board AD1816A
> was not properly detected by the ALSA driver or was detected, but
> there was no audio output. I'm not sure if the problem is still present in
> the current ALSA driver, as I do not own such a system.
>
> Maybe the OSS driver should stay in the kernel, until those problems are
> fixed in the ALSA driver.

thanks for this note, I'll drop the AD1816 driver from my list.

> Regards
> Thorsten

cu
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Lee Revell

unread,
Jul 28, 2005, 2:40:11 PM7/28/05
to Thorsten Knabe, Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 17:04 +0200, Thorsten Knabe wrote:
> I'm the maintainer of the OSS AD1816 sound driver. I'm aware of two
> problems of the ALSA AD1816 driver, that do not show up with the OSS
> driver:
> - According to my own experience and user reports audio is choppy with
> some VoIP Softphones like gnophone at least when used with the ALSA OSS
> emulation layer, whereas the OSS driver is crystal clear.
> - Users reported, that on some HP Kayak systems the on-board AD1816A
> was not properly detected by the ALSA driver or was detected, but
> there was no audio output. I'm not sure if the problem is still present in
> the current ALSA driver, as I do not own such a system.

What are the bug id #s in the ALSA BTS? If it's not in the bug tracker
it's never going to get fixed.

Lee

Jaroslav Kysela

unread,
Jul 29, 2005, 2:54:19 AM7/29/05
to Thorsten Knabe, Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Thorsten Knabe wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>
> > This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> > support the same hardware) for removal.
>
> Hello Adrian.
>
> I'm the maintainer of the OSS AD1816 sound driver. I'm aware of two
> problems of the ALSA AD1816 driver, that do not show up with the OSS
> driver:
> - According to my own experience and user reports audio is choppy with
> some VoIP Softphones like gnophone at least when used with the ALSA
> OSS emulation layer, whereas the OSS driver is crystal clear.
> - Users reported, that on some HP Kayak systems the on-board AD1816A was
> not properly detected by the ALSA driver or was detected, but there
> was no audio output. I'm not sure if the problem is still present in
> the current ALSA driver, as I do not own such a system.
>
> Maybe the OSS driver should stay in the kernel, until those problems are
> fixed in the ALSA driver.

The problem is that nobody reported us mentioned problems. We have no
bug-report regarding the AD1816A driver. Perhaps, it would be a good idea
to add a notice to the help file and/or driver that the ALSA driver should
be tested and bugs reported to the ALSA bug-tracking-system.

Thanks,
Jaroslav

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <pe...@suse.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project, SUSE Labs

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 29, 2005, 11:19:08 AM7/29/05
to Jaroslav Kysela, Thorsten Knabe, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 08:52:45AM +0200, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
>
> The problem is that nobody reported us mentioned problems. We have no
> bug-report regarding the AD1816A driver. Perhaps, it would be a good idea
> to add a notice to the help file and/or driver that the ALSA driver should
> be tested and bugs reported to the ALSA bug-tracking-system.

Although it wouldn't have helped with this driver, could you review the
currently 35 open ALSA bugs in the kernel Bugzilla [1]?

- Some might first require a question to the submitter whether the
problem is still present in recent kernels.
- Some might be problems in other parts of the kernel
(e.g. ACPI interrupt configuration problems).
- But some bugs might be bugs still present in recent ALSA.

The Gentoo people are using a pretty easy and nice way for forwarding
their bugs to the kernel Bugzilla, that would work the following way for
forwarding Bugs from the kernel Bugzilla to the ALSA BTS:
- open a new bug in the ALSA BTS:
- short description of the issue
- more information is at
http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12345
- add a comment to the kernel Bugzilla (but leave the bug open):
this bug is now handled at the ALSA BTS at
https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=23456

You could also do this the other way round if e.g. a ACPI interrupt
configuration problem was reported to the ALSA BTS.

> Thanks,
> Jaroslav

cu
Adrian

[1] http://bugzilla.kernel.org/

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Thorsten Knabe

unread,
Jul 29, 2005, 12:03:10 PM7/29/05
to Jaroslav Kysela, Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Thorsten Knabe wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>>
>>> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
>>> support the same hardware) for removal.
>>
>> Hello Adrian.
>>
>> I'm the maintainer of the OSS AD1816 sound driver. I'm aware of two
>> problems of the ALSA AD1816 driver, that do not show up with the OSS
>> driver:
>> - According to my own experience and user reports audio is choppy with
>> some VoIP Softphones like gnophone at least when used with the ALSA
>> OSS emulation layer, whereas the OSS driver is crystal clear.
>> - Users reported, that on some HP Kayak systems the on-board AD1816A was
>> not properly detected by the ALSA driver or was detected, but there
>> was no audio output. I'm not sure if the problem is still present in
>> the current ALSA driver, as I do not own such a system.
>>
>> Maybe the OSS driver should stay in the kernel, until those problems are
>> fixed in the ALSA driver.
>
> The problem is that nobody reported us mentioned problems. We have no
> bug-report regarding the AD1816A driver. Perhaps, it would be a good idea
> to add a notice to the help file and/or driver that the ALSA driver should
> be tested and bugs reported to the ALSA bug-tracking-system.

Hello Jaroslav.

I'll do some testing during the upcoming weekend to confirm, that the
mentioned problems still exist with the current ALSA release. Last time I
checked was sometime around Linux 2.6.10. I'll file a bug report of my
findings to the ALSA bug tracking system and contact the author of the
driver. Initially I had not spent much time on those problems, because I
had an alternative working OSS driver, but since removal of the OSS seems
to get closer, it's probably time to fix these issues now.

Regards
Thorsten

--
___
| | / E-Mail: li...@thorsten-knabe.de
|horsten |/\nabe WWW: http://linux.thorsten-knabe.de

James Courtier-Dutton

unread,
Jul 31, 2005, 9:44:32 AM7/31/05
to Adrian Bunk, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
Adrian Bunk wrote:
> This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> support the same hardware) for removal.
>
>
> Signed-off-by: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>
>
> ---
>
> I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible for one
> or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA people.
>

I am happy for the emu10k1 OSS driver to go.
The ALSA driver has considerably more features now.

James

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 31, 2005, 3:30:47 PM7/31/05
to Andrew Haninger, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com
On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 12:17:14PM -0400, Andrew Haninger wrote:
> On 7/26/05, Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de> wrote:
> > config SOUND_OPL3SA2
> > tristate "Yamaha OPL3-SA2 and SA3 based PnP cards"
> > - depends on SOUND_OSS
> > + depends on SOUND_OSS && OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
> > help
> > Say Y or M if you have a card based on one of these Yamaha sound
> > chipsets or the "SAx", which is actually a SA3. Read
> Forgive me if I'm misreading this (I'm hardly a coder and no kernel
> hacker) but, as it stands, the OPL3SA2 driver provided by ALSA and the
> main kernel tree work but are not correctly detected by ALSA's
> detection routines (in alsaconf) on the 2.6 kernel. The OSS drivers
> work, as well, but (AFAIK) there are no methods of automatic
> configuration with the OSS drivers.
>
> So, for people who don't feel like configuring ALSA with their OPL3SA2
> card, the OSS modules may be easier to configure and thus should be
> left in until the ALSA/2.6 kernel problems are worked out with the
> OPL3SA2.

This is kernel bug #3117 [1] / ALSA bug #879 [2]?

> -Andy

cu
Adrian

[1] http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3117
[2] https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=879

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 31, 2005, 3:41:15 PM7/31/05
to Zoran Dzelajlija, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org, Takashi Iwai
On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 01:38:37AM +0200, Zoran Dzelajlija wrote:
> Zach Brown <z...@zabbo.net> wrote:
> > Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > This patch schedules obsolete OSS drivers (with ALSA drivers that
> > > support the same hardware) for removal.
>
> > > I've Cc'ed the people listed in MAINTAINERS as being responsible for one
> > > or more of these drivers, and I've also Cc'ed the ALSA people.
>
> > I haven't touched the maestro drivers in so long (for near-total lack of
> > docs, etc.) that I can't be considered authoritative for approving it's
> > removal. If people are relying on it I certainly don't know who they
> > are. In better news, Takashi should now have the pile of maestro
> > hardware that I used in the first pass to help him maintain the ALSA
> > driver..
>
> The OSS maestro driver works better on my old Armada E500 laptop. I tried
> ALSA after switching to 2.6, but the computer hung with 2.6.8.1 or 2.6.10 if
> I touched the volume buttons. With OSS they just work. The four separate
> dsp devices also look kind of more useful.

I've left it on the list of OSS drivers scheduled for removal based on
Takashi's comment that the volume button problem should be fixed now.

If this problem is still present in 2.6.13-rc4, please open a bug at the
ALSA bug tracking system [1] and tell me the bug number so that I can
track it.

> Zoran

cu
Adrian

[1] https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jul 31, 2005, 3:43:28 PM7/31/05
to Thorsten Knabe, Jaroslav Kysela, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 05:58:18PM +0200, Thorsten Knabe wrote:
>
> Hello Jaroslav.
>
> I'll do some testing during the upcoming weekend to confirm, that the
> mentioned problems still exist with the current ALSA release. Last time I
> checked was sometime around Linux 2.6.10. I'll file a bug report of my
> findings to the ALSA bug tracking system and contact the author of the
> driver. Initially I had not spent much time on those problems, because I
> had an alternative working OSS driver, but since removal of the OSS seems
> to get closer, it's probably time to fix these issues now.

Thanks a lot!

Can you send me the bug numbers in the ALSA bug tracking system if you
have to send bug reports, so that I can track when these issues will be
resolved?

> Regards
> Thorsten

TIA
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Andrew Haninger

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 10:27:32 AM8/1/05
to Adrian Bunk, Thorsten Knabe, Jaroslav Kysela, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On 7/31/05, Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de> wrote:
> Can you send me the bug numbers in the ALSA bug tracking system if you
> have to send bug reports, so that I can track when these issues will be
> resolved?
Thorsten: Please remember to include the list(s) when emailing those
links/numbers. I'd like to be able to watch it, too, and add any
information that I can, rather than entering a duplicate bug.

Thanks.

-Andy

Thorsten Knabe

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 8:15:42 PM8/1/05
to Andrew Haninger, Adrian Bunk, Jaroslav Kysela, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Andrew Haninger wrote:

> Thorsten: Please remember to include the list(s) when emailing those
> links/numbers. I'd like to be able to watch it, too, and add any
> information that I can, rather than entering a duplicate bug.

Hello.

I have taken a closer look at the ALSA AD1816 sound driver during the last
weekend. Here are my findings:

On vanilla Linux 2.6.12.3 and 2.6.13-rc4 modprobe hangs in D-state when
loading the snd-ad1816a module. No messages have been logged to the syslog
and the system is otherwise stable. Of course the sound card is unusable.
On Linux 2.6.8 (as shipped with current Debian Sarge), vanilla Linux
2.6.10 and Linux 2.6.11.12 the module loads fine.

I have done some tests with xmms(Debian), kphone(VoIP-Phone/Debian) and
iaxcomm(VoIP-Phone/self-made). Audio playback with xmms is always fine
using either ALSA or OSS emulation. Using OSS emulation with one of the
VoIP phones, playback and recording stop a few seconds after the call is
started. Using the ALSA interface with kphone works, but there is a
continuous clicking approximately 3 times per second. Also audio latency
is poor compared to the OSS driver. iaxcomm does not support the ALSA
audio interface, thus no problems here. :-)
The native OSS driver is fine on all kernels with all tested applications.

Also the ALSA driver does not have an equivalent for the
"ad1816_clockfreq" option of the OSS driver. The AD1816 chip requires a
33MHz reference clock, however some cards use a different (mostly
32.125MHz) clock, thus the audio sample rate has to be corrected before it
is written to the hardware registers for proper playback and recording
speed.

I have not filed any bug reports to the ALSA bug tracking system so far,
but will do so tomorrow and add the corresponding bug numbers to this
thread.

Thorsten

--
___
| | / E-Mail: li...@thorsten-knabe.de
|horsten |/\nabe WWW: http://linux.thorsten-knabe.de

Lee Revell

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 1:08:26 AM8/2/05
to Thorsten Knabe, Andrew Haninger, Adrian Bunk, Jaroslav Kysela, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 02:13 +0200, Thorsten Knabe wrote:
> Using OSS emulation with one of the
> VoIP phones

Are you referring to the in-kernel OSS emulation, or the alsa-lib
emulation ("aoss ./app")?

Lee

James Courtier-Dutton

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 9:06:28 AM8/2/05
to Thorsten Knabe, Andrew Haninger, Adrian Bunk, Jaroslav Kysela, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org
Thorsten Knabe wrote:

It sounds to me that the best way to fix this is either:
a) Detect sound card subversion number and select different clock based
on that.
b) Some how auto detect the clock, much like the intel8x0 driver does.
c) Provide a manual option like the OSS driver. (We should probably have
this as well as (a) for the cases where (a) does not know about
particular soundcard X yet.

James

Thorsten Knabe

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 12:02:02 PM8/2/05
to Thorsten Knabe, Andrew Haninger, Adrian Bunk, Jaroslav Kysela, linux-...@vger.kernel.org, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, linux...@vger.kernel.org
Hello.

Here are the bug id's for the various issues from the ALSA bugtracking
system:

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Thorsten Knabe wrote:
> On vanilla Linux 2.6.12.3 and 2.6.13-rc4 modprobe hangs in D-state when
> loading the snd-ad1816a module. No messages have been logged to the syslog
> and the system is otherwise stable. Of course the sound card is unusable.

#1300: modprobe goes into D-state when inserting snd-ad1816a

> Using OSS emulation with one of the VoIP
> phones, playback and recording stop a few seconds after the call is started.
> Using the ALSA interface with kphone works, but there is a continuous
> clicking approximately 3 times per second. Also audio latency is poor
> compared to the OSS driver.

#1301: Kernel OSS emulation stops working after a few seconds when used
with VoIP softphones

#1302: Clicking noise when using kphone with the ALSA AD1816A sound driver

> Also the ALSA driver does not have an equivalent for the "ad1816_clockfreq"
> option of the OSS driver.

#1303: AD1816A sound driver has no parameter to adjust reference clock
frequency

Regards

Adrian Bunk

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 8:14:41 AM1/3/06
to Jaroslav Kysela, Alan Cox, Jeff Garzik, LKML, ALSA development, Takashi Iwai
On Thu, Jul 28, 2005 at 03:43:49PM +0200, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> > On Mer, 2005-07-27 at 16:43 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > > ISTR Alan saying there was some ALi hardware that either wasn't in ALSA,
> > > or most likely didn't work in ALSA. If Alan says I'm smoking crack,
> > > then you all can ignore me :)
> >
> > The only big thing I know that still needed OSS (and may still do so) is
> > the support for AC97 wired touchscreens and the like. Has that been
> > ported to ALSA ?
>
> We're working on this issue right now.

What's the current status of this issue?

> Jaroslav

cu
Adrian

--

"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

-

Andi Kleen

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 8:22:43 AM1/3/06
to Adrian Bunk, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, linux-...@vger.kernel.org
Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de> writes:
>
> Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt | 7 +
> sound/oss/Kconfig | 79 ++++++++++++---------
> 2 files changed, 54 insertions(+), 32 deletions(-)
>
> --- linux-2.6.13-rc3-mm1-full/Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt.old 2005-07-26 16:50:05.000000000 +0200
> +++ linux-2.6.13-rc3-mm1-full/Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt 2005-07-26 16:51:24.000000000 +0200
> @@ -44,0 +45,7 @@
> +What: drivers depending on OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
> +When: October 2005
> +Why: OSS drivers with ALSA replacements
> +Who: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>

I object to the ICH driver being scheduler for removal. It works
fine and is a significantly less bloated than the equivalent ALSA setup.

This means ac97_codec.c also has to stay.

-Andi

Alistair John Strachan

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 8:47:55 AM1/3/06
to Andi Kleen, Adrian Bunk, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 13:21, Andi Kleen wrote:
> Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de> writes:
> > Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt | 7 +
> > sound/oss/Kconfig | 79 ++++++++++++---------
> > 2 files changed, 54 insertions(+), 32 deletions(-)
> >
> > ---
> > linux-2.6.13-rc3-mm1-full/Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt.old
> >2005-07-26 16:50:05.000000000 +0200 +++
> > linux-2.6.13-rc3-mm1-full/Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt 2005
> >-07-26 16:51:24.000000000 +0200 @@ -44,0 +45,7 @@
> > +What: drivers depending on OBSOLETE_OSS_DRIVER
> > +When: October 2005
> > +Why: OSS drivers with ALSA replacements
> > +Who: Adrian Bunk <bu...@stusta.de>
>
> I object to the ICH driver being scheduler for removal. It works
> fine and is a significantly less bloated than the equivalent ALSA setup.
>
> This means ac97_codec.c also has to stay.

I think this is probably true for quite a few of the OSS drivers, versus their
ALSA equivalents. The fact is that OSS is obsolete, and the ALSA libraries
and utilities provide, to all soundcards, more features than the OSS API
could.

Maybe it's more bloated, but it's about time applications on Linux didn't have
to support 2-3 audio APIs just so they'd work on more than 50% of systems.

It strikes me that it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Vendors are still
releasing applications on Linux that support only OSS, partly due to
ignorance, but mostly because ALSA's OSS compatibility layer allows them to
lazily ignore the ALSA API and target all cards, old and new.

Additionally, we can't get rid of OSS compatibility until pretty much all
hardware has an ALSA driver, and (inferred from your comment) we can't get
rid of OSS drivers until nothing supports OSS, because the whole of the ALSA
stuff is a bit larger...

Even if Adrian's not trying to make this point (he's just removing duplicate
drivers, and opting for the newer ones), we accepted ALSA into the kernel.
It's probably about time we let OSS die properly, for sanity purposes.

--
Cheers,
Alistair.

'No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway.'
Third year Computer Science undergraduate.
1F2 55 South Clerk Street, Edinburgh, UK.

Andi Kleen

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 8:52:50 AM1/3/06
to Alistair John Strachan, Adrian Bunk, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 14:47, Alistair John Strachan wrote:

> It strikes me that it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Vendors are still
> releasing applications on Linux that support only OSS, partly due to
> ignorance, but mostly because ALSA's OSS compatibility layer allows them to
> lazily ignore the ALSA API and target all cards, old and new.

As long as it works why is that a bad thing? OSS API works just fine
for most sound needs. If you want to do high end sound you can still
use ALSA.

> Additionally, we can't get rid of OSS compatibility until pretty much all
> hardware has an ALSA driver, and (inferred from your comment) we can't get
> rid of OSS drivers until nothing supports OSS, because the whole of the ALSA
> stuff is a bit larger...

We can never get rid of it.
Linux doesn't break widely used application interfaces.

> Even if Adrian's not trying to make this point (he's just removing duplicate
> drivers, and opting for the newer ones), we accepted ALSA into the kernel.
> It's probably about time we let OSS die properly, for sanity purposes.

Avoiding bloat is more important.

-Andi

Alistair John Strachan

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 9:02:18 AM1/3/06
to Andi Kleen, Adrian Bunk, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 13:52, Andi Kleen wrote:
> On Tuesday 03 January 2006 14:47, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
> > It strikes me that it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Vendors are
> > still releasing applications on Linux that support only OSS, partly due
> > to ignorance, but mostly because ALSA's OSS compatibility layer allows
> > them to lazily ignore the ALSA API and target all cards, old and new.
>
> As long as it works why is that a bad thing? OSS API works just fine
> for most sound needs. If you want to do high end sound you can still
> use ALSA.

Is multiple-source mixing really a "high end" requirement? When I last
checked, the OSS driver didn't support multiple applications claiming it at
once, thus requiring you to use "more bloat" like esound, arts, or some other
crap to access your soundcard more than once at any given time.

I think when you consider other modern sound architectures across many
operating systems have supported this fundamentally basic feature for a long
time, it's important to the majority of end users.

> > Additionally, we can't get rid of OSS compatibility until pretty much all
> > hardware has an ALSA driver, and (inferred from your comment) we can't
> > get rid of OSS drivers until nothing supports OSS, because the whole of
> > the ALSA stuff is a bit larger...
>
> We can never get rid of it.
> Linux doesn't break widely used application interfaces.

Okay, fair point.

> > Even if Adrian's not trying to make this point (he's just removing
> > duplicate drivers, and opting for the newer ones), we accepted ALSA into
> > the kernel. It's probably about time we let OSS die properly, for sanity
> > purposes.
>
> Avoiding bloat is more important.

I can't agree with that.

--
Cheers,
Alistair.

'No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway.'
Third year Computer Science undergraduate.
1F2 55 South Clerk Street, Edinburgh, UK.

David Lang

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 9:07:55 AM1/3/06
to Andi Kleen, Alistair John Strachan, Adrian Bunk, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Andi Kleen wrote:

>> Even if Adrian's not trying to make this point (he's just removing duplicate
>> drivers, and opting for the newer ones), we accepted ALSA into the kernel.
>> It's probably about time we let OSS die properly, for sanity purposes.
>
> Avoiding bloat is more important.

given that the ALSA drivers are not going to be removed, isn't it bloat to
have two drivers for the same card?

yes, an individual compiled kernel may be slightly smaller by continueing
to support the OSS driver, but the source (and the maintinance) are
significantly worse by haveing two drivers instead of just one.

David Lang

--
There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.
-- C.A.R. Hoare

Alistair John Strachan

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 9:33:42 AM1/3/06
to David Lang, Andi Kleen, Adrian Bunk, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 13:58, David Lang wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Andi Kleen wrote:
> >> Even if Adrian's not trying to make this point (he's just removing
> >> duplicate drivers, and opting for the newer ones), we accepted ALSA into
> >> the kernel. It's probably about time we let OSS die properly, for sanity
> >> purposes.
> >
> > Avoiding bloat is more important.
>
> given that the ALSA drivers are not going to be removed, isn't it bloat to
> have two drivers for the same card?

Normally this isn't too big a deal in Linux; eventually one gets removed, but
not until it is substantially inferior than the other (or broken, or not
compiling, or unmaintained..).

> yes, an individual compiled kernel may be slightly smaller by continueing
> to support the OSS driver, but the source (and the maintinance) are
> significantly worse by haveing two drivers instead of just one.

If there are two separate maintainers it's probably not a lot worse. I think
the argument pretty much has to remain "ALSA drivers are technically
superior, OSS drivers have unfixable limitations", and that should be a good
enough reason to see them removed.

Perhaps Andi's concerns about ALSA bloat could also be concerned. I don't know
enough about the "high end" features of ALSA to comment on whether they could
become optional (currently there are few driver-generic options in the
Kconfig file).

--
Cheers,
Alistair.

'No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway.'
Third year Computer Science undergraduate.
1F2 55 South Clerk Street, Edinburgh, UK.

Alistair John Strachan

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 9:35:30 AM1/3/06
to David Lang, Andi Kleen, Adrian Bunk, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 14:33, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
> On Tuesday 03 January 2006 13:58, David Lang wrote:
> > On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Andi Kleen wrote:
> > >> Even if Adrian's not trying to make this point (he's just removing
> > >> duplicate drivers, and opting for the newer ones), we accepted ALSA
> > >> into the kernel. It's probably about time we let OSS die properly, for
> > >> sanity purposes.
> > >
> > > Avoiding bloat is more important.
> >
> > given that the ALSA drivers are not going to be removed, isn't it bloat
> > to have two drivers for the same card?
>
> Normally this isn't too big a deal in Linux; eventually one gets removed,
> but not until it is substantially inferior than the other (or broken, or
> not compiling, or unmaintained..).
>
> > yes, an individual compiled kernel may be slightly smaller by continueing
> > to support the OSS driver, but the source (and the maintinance) are
> > significantly worse by haveing two drivers instead of just one.
>
> If there are two separate maintainers it's probably not a lot worse. I
> think the argument pretty much has to remain "ALSA drivers are technically
> superior, OSS drivers have unfixable limitations", and that should be a
> good enough reason to see them removed.
>
> Perhaps Andi's concerns about ALSA bloat could also be concerned.
^^^ addressed

Jan Engelhardt

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 9:39:43 AM1/3/06
to Alistair John Strachan, Andi Kleen, Adrian Bunk, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, linux-...@vger.kernel.org

>It strikes me that it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Vendors are still
>releasing applications on Linux that support only OSS, partly due to
>ignorance, but mostly because ALSA's OSS compatibility layer allows them to
>lazily ignore the ALSA API and target all cards, old and new.
>
>Additionally, we can't get rid of OSS compatibility until pretty much all
>hardware has an ALSA driver, and (inferred from your comment) we can't get
>rid of OSS drivers until nothing supports OSS, because the whole of the ALSA
>stuff is a bit larger...
>
By OSS compatibility, do you mean the OSS PCM emulation layer (/dev/dsp)? I
think that should be kept. That way, legacy apps keep working, especially
unmaintained binary-only things like Unreal Tournament 1.

The OSS emulation does not depend on the OSS tree (CONFIG_SOUND_PRIME), so I
cannot quite follow your second paragraph - we should not remove OSS compat.
anytime.


Jan Engelhardt
--

Alistair John Strachan

unread,
Jan 3, 2006, 9:42:12 AM1/3/06
to Jan Engelhardt, Andi Kleen, Adrian Bunk, pe...@suse.cz, alsa-...@alsa-project.org, Ja...@superbug.demon.co.uk, sai...@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux...@vger.kernel.org, z...@zabbo.net, ky...@parisc-linux.org, parisc...@lists.parisc-linux.org, jga...@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe, zw...@commfireservices.com, zai...@yahoo.com, linux-...@vger.kernel.org
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 14:38, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> >It strikes me that it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Vendors are
> > still releasing applications on Linux that support only OSS, partly due
> > to ignorance, but mostly because ALSA's OSS compatibility layer allows
> > them to lazily ignore the ALSA API and target all cards, old and new.
> >
> >Additionally, we can't get rid of OSS compatibility until pretty much all
> >hardware has an ALSA driver, and (inferred from your comment) we can't get
> >rid of OSS drivers until nothing supports OSS, because the whole of the
> > ALSA stuff is a bit larger...
>
> By OSS compatibility, do you mean the OSS PCM emulation layer (/dev/dsp)? I
> think that should be kept. That way, legacy apps keep working, especially
> unmaintained binary-only things like Unreal Tournament 1.
>
> The OSS emulation does not depend on the OSS tree (CONFIG_SOUND_PRIME), so
> I cannot quite follow your second paragraph - we should not remove OSS
> compat. anytime.

Andi made this point and I agree. I'm just making the point that people should
see it as exactly that -- a legacy compatibility layer. It should not be seen
as a "way out" for vendors looking to write generic DSP software.

The problem with using OSS compatibility, at least on this machine with ALSA
1.0.9, is that if you use it you automatically lose the software mixing
capabilities of ALSA, so it really is less than ideal.

--
Cheers,
Alistair.

'No sense being pessimistic, it probabl