HUMAN-NETS Digest V8 #7

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Feb 20, 1985, 11:53:44 PM2/20/85
From: Charles McGrew (The Moderator) <Human-Nets-Request@Rutgers>

HUMAN-NETS Digest Thursday, 21 Feb 1985 Volume 8 : Issue 7

Today's Topics:
Queries - Arpanet Map &
Electronic Mail Directory,
Responses to Queries - Non-computer electronic mail (2 msgs) &
Re: Trying to Reach Someone (2 msgs),
Information - VideoTech Mailing List,
Computer Networks - Stargate (2 msgs)

Date: Sun 10 Feb 85 15:00:56-EST
From: Vince....@CMU-CS-C.ARPA
Subject: Request for information

Does anyone know if there is an online, up-to-date map of the ARPANET
(just Internet network #10, not the whole network) online? I am
interested in finding out which IMPs are connected to each other and
which ones do routing for various parts of the network. Thanks in


Date: Wed 20 Feb 85 06:52:31-EST
From: Wayne McGuire <MDC.WAYNE%MIT...@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Electronic Mail Directory
To: tel...@BBNCCA.ARPA, info-nets%MIT...@MIT-MC.ARPA
Cc: zbbs%MIT...@MIT-MC.ARPA

Does anyone know if any work is underway somewhere to develop an
online directory of all electronic mail users and addresses? The
online directory of Arpanet/Milnet users at SRI-NIC provides a model
of what I have in mind. It would be most helpful if the NIC directory
were expanded to include the electronic addresses of users of MCI
Mail, Easylink, Compuserve, The Source, Delphi, Bitnet, Usenet, and
other computer networks, and made generally available. A directory of
all electronic mail users in the world would in fact probably fit
handily on one or two laser disks. These disks could be updated
monthly, and widely distributed to local nodes and perhaps even to
individuals. One might enrich this tool with a natural language
interface for searching the directory, and some software which would
know the best (if any) route to send mail from one node to any other
node on any net.

This is a product which is begging to come into existence.

-- Wayne McGuire <wayne%mit-oz@mit-mc>


Date: Tue, 12 Feb 85 12:58:09 pst
From: dual!paul@Berkeley (Paul Wilcox-Baker)
Subject: Re: Non computer electronic mail systems

> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 85 13:14 IST
> From: Henry Nussbacher <VSHANK%weizman...@WISCVM.ARPA>
> Subject: Non computer users use of electronic mail

> Are there any networks or individual nodes who allow mail to be sent
> to "non-computer" users? Does mail that is destined for
> non-existant users go to some high speed printer and then torn off
> and stuck into an inter-office envelope? What are the pitfalls of
> such a setup? Is it necessary to assume that all "humans" on the
> network actually know how to use a computer to receive electronic

Yes there is. It is known as telex. Users of the system need to be
able to do little more typing. Telex messages can also be sent by
anyone with a suitable modem and a terminal or computer. Unlike
USENET, you do not have to work out the message routing yourself. The
only pitfall of the system is that messages seem to be a little
expensive per bit. The system can reliably deliver messages to far
more people the USENET can do.

> Is there any RFC standard for sending electronic mail to a node that
> should be printed as opposed to delivered?

This is up to the user at the receiving end. Paper is the usual
default. It is much harder to lose or forget messages that way.

Paul Wilcox-Baker.


Date: Thu, 14 Feb 85 10:40 IST
From: Henry Nussbacher <VSHANK%weizman...@WISCVM.ARPA>
Subject: Need for another reserved userid at all mail nodes
Cc: <DCro...@Udel-Relay.ARPA>

After having posted a request here for information about being able to
send E-mail to a person that is not a computer user and have it
printed and delivered via internal mail, I received many replies from
various people on various networks and I thank all of you.

But the one thing that kept reoccurring in all the mail was that each
site had a dedicated userid that accepted hardcopy mail, i.e.:

John Smith - Room 1212 <HARD...@node.ARPA>

The userid for the hardcopy capability varied and that was the hitch.
I would be forced to remember the hardcopy userid for each node. What
I would like to propose is an addenudum to RFC822 to add another
reserved userid (in addition to POSTMASTER) and call it HARDCOPY (or
anything else people care to agree on).

Sites that do not have a HARDCOPY userid will merely return the mail
as undeliverable due to 'not valid userid'. Those sites that have a
hardcopy facility will print out the mail in their mailroom and have
it delivered as a Telex or internal mail would be delivered. Many
sites have this capability already but it seems to be localized to a
site and not to the network as a whole. In this way, many sites would
be able to save alot of their Telex costs.

Sound reasonable?



From: decvax!utzoo!lsuc!msb@Berkeley
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 85 00:30:54 est
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V8 #4

A.K.Dewdney is on the uucp net, or was a few months ago at least. His
address was then:


decvax talks to Berkeley's ucbvax and other major uucp sites.

Mark Brader


Date: 15 February 85 20:51 EST
Subject: University of Western Ontari

Originally sent from: RMXJITRY@CORNELLA
Originally sent to: BOE...@HI-MULTICS.ARPA

In order to reach someone at the University of Western Ontario I would
suggest writing the Postmaster and asking for the userid of this
Alexander K. Dewdney. To do this, send mail to the following:

This routing is for mail coming from ARPANET - it is actually easier
to send mail via BITNET to CDNNET - but that is another story.

-- Gligor Tashkovich
CCS Network Consultant



Date: 20 Feb 1985 0029-PST
From: the tty of Geoffrey S. Goodfellow <Ge...@SRI-CSL.ARPA>
Subject: New Mailing List -- VideoTech@SRI-CSL.
To: Past HOME-SAT & Video-Disk mailing list people:: ;,
To: cc: Zellich at SRI-NIC.ARPA, Telecom at MIT-MC.ARPA


VideoTech represents a rebirth and combination of the
HOME-SAT, VIDEO-DISC and TELETEXT mailing lists. Appropriate
topics for discussion on VideoTech might be, but not limited

- Home Satellite (TVRO, DBS)
- Cable Television
- Video Disc Technology
- Video Tape Recorders (Beta/VHS/UMatic)
- Teletext
- Stereo Television
- HighRes Television

All requests to be added to or deleted from this list

Coordinator: Geoffrey S. Goodfellow <Geoff@SRI-CSL>

[You need to send a message to VideoTech-Request@SRI-CSL if you want
to be on the list. Getting a copy of this message doesn't mean your
on the list.]


Date: Sun, 10-Feb-85 14:29:09 PST
From: Lauren Weinstein <vortex!lau...@RAND-UNIX.ARPA>
Subject: Stargate

Stargate is a project that I developed and implemented as an
experiment in conjunction with the Usenix Association. It is still in
its very early stages. The message from Frank A. resulted in a
massive outpouring of statements against that author and his message,
which was not only exceedingly impolite but also massively misleading.
I was indeed deluged with mail, but 99.99% of it was totally
supportive of the project and urged me to ignore such "comments" and
not allow them to ruin the project. I was quite encouraged to see the
massive outpouring of support for the project that was triggered
(obviously unintentionally) by that message.

I can only state that the message in question represented a miniscule
percentage of opinion and was to be expected when anything new was
presented to a large group of people. Somebody will scream at you
about anything.

Unfortunately, I simply do NOT have time to bring up all the details
and issues here in HUMAN-NETS, nor am I regularly reading this list
these days (simply from lack of time). The various issues surrounding
Stargate have been discussed in VOLUMINOUS detail (including some very
long explanatory pieces by me) to the Usenet and groups over the last several months. There is
simply no way for me to take the time now to try summarize that mass
of data. If you have access to Usenet news archives I encourage you
to start reading and draw your own conclusions. Be sure to read as
much as you can, since some articles present misconceptions which are
then corrected in later articles.

A very short explanation of Stargate: Stargate is an experiment
wherein the technical issues of transmissing Usenet netnews-type
materials over the vertical interval of a major cable television
satellite service (WTBS) are being investigated. The mode of
transmission is being investigated as a adjunct to the current
telephone-based transmission schemes. The experiment is still running
at this time. Discussions are now beginning between various parties
(The Usenix Association, the satellite carrier who controls the WTBS
vertical interval, and others) to determine the shape of an actual
service (as opposed to an experiment) in terms of resource allocation,
specific services, content, liabilities, costs, and a whole range of
other topics.

Once again, I must emphasize that I do not ordinarily read this list
regularly and that I will most likely be unable to respond to comments
on this topic in this list. I can only point you at the volumes of
material already available on many Usenet systems.

The whole project, from my original conception to my installation of
the computer equipment in Atlanta, and onward to the present, has been
done totally on a volunteer basis, and it has been eating up
increasing amounts of my consulting time. As new people join in on
Usenet, more and more people contact me regarding the project
(questions, comments, wanting to help, wanting to participate) and I
simply do not have the time to start another cycle of such discussions
here! I am a consultant by trade and the time I spend on Stargate is
time that I'm not making money to pay the rent.

I will report on Stargate as appropriate in this list as it passes
through various phases of the experiment. In the meantime, if you
want more information, please see the Usenet and groups (if you have access to them). Most of the
really basic information was sent out a couple of months ago, but many
sites should still have it online. Once again, I will most likely be
unable to respond to discussions in this list regarding this topic for
now. I apologize for that, but the nets have grown far too big for me
to conveniently deal with even the volumes of non-mailing-list mail I
receive these days, given my high visibility.



Date: 14 Feb 85 15:50:46 PST (Thu)
Subject: RE: Stargate
From: peck@sri-spam

If the promoters of Stargate are concerned about the satellite carrier
being sued for the contents of the messages, then i suggest that that
is the issue to attack, not Stargate itself. Is AT&T liable for
messages transmitted over the current network? (Is Anaconda Copper
liable?) Seems to me that since the source of every message is
identified in that message, that responsiblity for that message is
already established. If all messages are moderated, then would the
moderator be liable !?

If you want to avoid the menace of moderated newsgroups, why not
direct your efforts toward getting a legislative or judicial ruling on
the issue instead of trying to sabatoge future technology. That way,
everybody wins.


Date: 13 Feb 1985 09:09-PST
From: the tty of Geoffrey S. Goodfellow <Ge...@SRI-CSL.ARPA>

n047 1202 12 Feb 85
(Newhouse 003)
Take Our Word for It column
(Editor's note: Take Our Word for It is prepared by the editors of
Merriam-Webster Inc., publishers of Webster's Ninth New Collegiate
Dictionary. Readers' questions are welcome and should be mailed to
Take Our Word for It, in care of this newspaper.)
Newhouse News Service


Dear Editor: My friend is a computerholic; he just can't get
enough of his machine. Another friend called him a ''hacker.'' Is
he criticizing or complimenting my computer friend? - C.N.,
Dear C.N.: Because the word ''hacker'' has received some bad
press in the past year or so, with stories of hackers breaching
security into computer systems, the word does have some negative
connotations for many people. But the examples of usage in our
files suggest this is not the case within the industry itself,
where use of the term may actually indicate a degree of awe.
So your friend can continue to be a hacker with pride.



nyt-02-12-85 1503est


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