9.2-PRE: switch off that stupid "Nakatomi Socrates"

[O. Hartmann]

Hello,

I'd like to switch off this silly "Nakatomi Socrates" message which
reminds me on Linux and their childish naming schemes.

It is only cosmetics, but it bothers me whenever I switch on the laptop.

I guess there is a switch already prsent to have in the bootloader
config?

Thanks,

oh

[Matthew Seaman]

It's turned off by default in more recent 9.2-STABLE

Otherwise:

loader_logo="orb"

in /boot/loader.conf -- see loader.conf(5)

Cheers,

Matthew

--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey

[Teske, Devin]

On Sep 21, 2013, at 3:40 AM, Matthew Seaman wrote:

> On 21/09/2013 11:31, O. Hartmann wrote:
>> I'd like to switch off this silly "Nakatomi Socrates" message which
>> reminds me on Linux and their childish naming schemes.
>>
>> It is only cosmetics, but it bothers me whenever I switch on the laptop.
>>
>> I guess there is a switch already prsent to have in the bootloader
>> config?
>
> It's turned off by default in more recent 9.2-STABLE
>
> Otherwise:
>
> loader_logo="orb"
>
> in /boot/loader.conf -- see loader.conf(5)
>

Maybe he meant the name associated with named-releases now.

To kill that, put into loader.conf(5):

loader_version=""

See version.4th(8) for additional details.
--
Devin

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[Jakub Lach]

To be honest, I had my "They did whaaat?" moment when I initially saw
booting after that update, nonetheless when I've got reference I decided
that it was all in good spirit and appropriate even... I was definitely
disappointed that it was backed down in the end.

Now I have orb manually set up though.


P.S. Last developer that I spoke with, was genuinely surprised that
FreeBSD is still updated...

I think that once in a while it's good to show (off) that FreeBSD is
not stagnant, even if it's in silly way.



--
View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/9-2-PRE-switch-off-that-stupid-Nakatomi-Socrates-tp5845622p5845696.html
Sent from the freebsd-stable mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

[David Demelier]

Yes, I've already said a few weeks ago that it should not be default as
it's really not serious for a system like FreeBSD, I'm happy that it has
been removed just before 9.2-RELEASE.

Cheers,

David

[Jakub Lach]

FWIW, I've meant "tribute" not orb.



--
View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/9-2-PRE-switch-off-that-stupid-Nakatomi-Socrates-tp5845622p5845814.html

[David Demelier]

On 21.09.2013 12:40, Matthew Seaman wrote:
> On 21/09/2013 11:31, O. Hartmann wrote:
>> I'd like to switch off this silly "Nakatomi Socrates" message which
>> reminds me on Linux and their childish naming schemes.
>>
>> It is only cosmetics, but it bothers me whenever I switch on the laptop.
>>
>> I guess there is a switch already prsent to have in the bootloader
>> config?
>
> It's turned off by default in more recent 9.2-STABLE
>
> Otherwise:
>
> loader_logo="orb"
>
> in /boot/loader.conf -- see loader.conf(5)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Matthew
>

Hi,

I have loader_logo="orb" and I still have a message at the right bottom
with that stupid joke.

It's really pisses me off *now*. I already said it was okay to add a new
logo for that stupid joke. But now, I have orb set and I still see that
in my bootloader.

How can I disable this forever ?!

Also in the future you can just forgot that crappy ideas as you can see,
nobody liked it.

David.

[Teske, Devin]

On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:06 PM, David Demelier wrote:

> On 21.09.2013 12:40, Matthew Seaman wrote:
>> On 21/09/2013 11:31, O. Hartmann wrote:
>>> I'd like to switch off this silly "Nakatomi Socrates" message which
>>> reminds me on Linux and their childish naming schemes.
>>>
>>> It is only cosmetics, but it bothers me whenever I switch on the laptop.
>>>
>>> I guess there is a switch already prsent to have in the bootloader
>>> config?
>>
>> It's turned off by default in more recent 9.2-STABLE
>>
>> Otherwise:
>>
>> loader_logo="orb"
>>
>> in /boot/loader.conf -- see loader.conf(5)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Matthew
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> I have loader_logo="orb" and I still have a message at the right bottom
> with that stupid joke.
>

I already responded to this once.

loader_version=""

See version.4th(8).

> It's really pisses me off *now*.

Why *now*? I already answered this... (link to archives below)

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2013-September/075260.html

If you say that you tried this and it didn't work, then by all means...
come back (pissed off or not) and we'll debug the situation.

The person that recommended loader_logo was incorrectly thinking you
were talking about the ARTWORK that you get by default in RC1-RC3 which
is now non-default (requiring loader_logo="tribute" to enable beyond RC3).

The "named releases" however are staying enabled by default.

And as I answered in the archives...

loader_version="whatever you want to name your release"

or

loader_version=""

is how you customize the text which seems to piss you off so much.

> I already said it was okay to add a new
> logo for that stupid joke. But now, I have orb set and I still see that
> in my bootloader.
>
> How can I disable this forever ?!
>

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2013-September/075260.html

> Also in the future you can just forgot that crappy ideas as you can see,
> nobody liked it.
>

Uh... I'm ignoring that.
--
Devin

P.S. You're not winning any friends here. We answered your question and you
came back hostile.

_____________
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.

[Teske, Devin]

On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:06 PM, David Demelier wrote:

> On 21.09.2013 12:40, Matthew Seaman wrote:
>> On 21/09/2013 11:31, O. Hartmann wrote:
>>> I'd like to switch off this silly "Nakatomi Socrates" message which
>>> reminds me on Linux and their childish naming schemes.
>>>
>>> It is only cosmetics, but it bothers me whenever I switch on the laptop.
>>>
>>> I guess there is a switch already prsent to have in the bootloader
>>> config?
>>
>> It's turned off by default in more recent 9.2-STABLE
>>
>> Otherwise:
>>
>> loader_logo="orb"
>>
>> in /boot/loader.conf -- see loader.conf(5)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Matthew
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> I have loader_logo="orb" and I still have a message at the right bottom
> with that stupid joke.
>

"Named Releases" is far from a joke.

Maybe you'd like something a bit more boring like "9.2-RELEASE"

The fact is... there is (and only ever will be) one iteration of FreeBSD 9.2.

I assume that you have had no clue up until this point that there was yet
another BSD 9.2. A fictitious version of BSD in a 1980's film, named...

Nakatomi Socrates

Yeah, we could have decided to let the opportunity pass; to show that we're
the first BSD to ever hit 9.2 out of all the flavors, producing the first ever
non-fictitious BSD 9.2...

But where would the fun be in that?

Rest assured... I've not seen *any* hollywood films with a number higher
than 9.2... so our future looks pretty darn boring.

The "name" for 10.0-RELEASE could very well be NULL or boring ol'

10.0-RELEASE

But one thing is clear.

There is a real tangible benefit to seeing the version on the boot screen.

As we move to integrate BE's into the Forth boot screen, it may become
paramount to know what version of loader(8) you're using.

So please try not to be so judge-mental about these things.

This is a real tangible improvement and simply because you've heard
that those crazy people in Linux-land are naming their releases...

That had zero bearing on why we did it. We may never name another release
ever again.

I personally would like to see loader(8) set the value to include an SVN revision
so that everytime you rebuild loader(8), the version info updates; displayed
prominently in the bottom right corner (which of course... you'll again be free to
override it if you don't like it... just as you are free to completely disable the
entire menu by adding beastie_disable=YES to loader.conf(8)).
--
Devin

_____________
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.

[David Demelier]

I already asked a few weeks ago what was this strange artwork on my boot
loader and I was told to use loader_logo to completely disable it.

I've first said that it's funny but I would not recommend to enable it
by default because it's really not serious and the artwork was really
immature in the scope of the FreeBSD project.

Then I was "happy" because I get my orb as usual. And today, I've
updated to 9.2-RELEASE SVN tag and saw there was again a message about
this stupid "Nakatomi Socrates" version in green. So I needed to check
again *why* this has been enabled by default and that's why it was
starting to get my nerves.

I personally think (but you may totally disagree with) that an operating
system *is* an operating system. And I really hate easter eggs or
anything else not serious being integrated into the system. I think
about a new user installing FreeBSD 9.2, I would not imagine his
reaction front of this kind of "tribute" or whatever you call that. For
me it stands for "that's not serious, it looks like a toy".

Fortunately now it's just a "version" but I would really not imagine
when the screen was looking with the "tribute" loader_logo.

Seriously, I don't understand why people waste time to create jokes like
that instead of working on serious issues.

You may think I'm putting to much significance on this kind of matter
but I like (and I'm not the only one) serious, clean things.

And the real reason that made me yell like that was that I needed to ask
/ complain a second time to remove that "tribute" thing again.

> The person that recommended loader_logo was incorrectly thinking you
> were talking about the ARTWORK that you get by default in RC1-RC3 which
> is now non-default (requiring loader_logo="tribute" to enable beyond RC3).
>
> The "named releases" however are staying enabled by default.
>
> And as I answered in the archives...
>
> loader_version="whatever you want to name your release"
>
> or
>
> loader_version=""
>
> is how you customize the text which seems to piss you off so much.
>

Thanks.

>
>
>> I already said it was okay to add a new
>> logo for that stupid joke. But now, I have orb set and I still see that
>> in my bootloader.
>>
>> How can I disable this forever ?!
>>
>
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2013-September/075260.html
>
>
>> Also in the future you can just forgot that crappy ideas as you can see,
>> nobody liked it.
>>
>
> Uh... I'm ignoring that.
>

Check again in the lists, I'm not the only one complaining on that.

[David Demelier]

On 28.09.2013 00:32, Teske, Devin wrote:
>
> On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:06 PM, David Demelier wrote:
>
>> On 21.09.2013 12:40, Matthew Seaman wrote:
>>> On 21/09/2013 11:31, O. Hartmann wrote:
>>>> I'd like to switch off this silly "Nakatomi Socrates" message which
>>>> reminds me on Linux and their childish naming schemes.
>>>>
>>>> It is only cosmetics, but it bothers me whenever I switch on the laptop.
>>>>
>>>> I guess there is a switch already prsent to have in the bootloader
>>>> config?
>>>
>>> It's turned off by default in more recent 9.2-STABLE
>>>
>>> Otherwise:
>>>
>>> loader_logo="orb"
>>>
>>> in /boot/loader.conf -- see loader.conf(5)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Matthew
>>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have loader_logo="orb" and I still have a message at the right bottom
>> with that stupid joke.
>>
>
> "Named Releases" is far from a joke.
>
> Maybe you'd like something a bit more boring like "9.2-RELEASE"
>
> The fact is... there is (and only ever will be) one iteration of FreeBSD 9.2.
>
> I assume that you have had no clue up until this point that there was yet
> another BSD 9.2. A fictitious version of BSD in a 1980's film, named...
>
> Nakatomi Socrates

Yes I know that, I've already seen the image a lot a few weeks ago.

>
> Yeah, we could have decided to let the opportunity pass; to show that we're
> the first BSD to ever hit 9.2 out of all the flavors, producing the first ever
> non-fictitious BSD 9.2...
>
> But where would the fun be in that?
>

FreeBSD is not Linux, I (and again, I'm not the only one) thought the
idea of naming Linux 3.11 "Linux for workgroups" very stupid. In the
Linux world we like to add funny messages / easter eggs directly in the
kernel source, but I think this silly and not serious. So I don't really
want to bring these Linux manners into our FreeBSD world.

> Rest assured... I've not seen *any* hollywood films with a number higher
> than 9.2... so our future looks pretty darn boring.
>
> The "name" for 10.0-RELEASE could very well be NULL or boring ol'
>
> 10.0-RELEASE
>
> But one thing is clear.
>
> There is a real tangible benefit to seeing the version on the boot screen.
>
> As we move to integrate BE's into the Forth boot screen, it may become
> paramount to know what version of loader(8) you're using.
>
> So please try not to be so judge-mental about these things.
>
> This is a real tangible improvement and simply because you've heard
> that those crazy people in Linux-land are naming their releases...
>
> That had zero bearing on why we did it. We may never name another release
> ever again.
>
> I personally would like to see loader(8) set the value to include an SVN revision
> so that everytime you rebuild loader(8), the version info updates; displayed
> prominently in the bottom right corner (which of course... you'll again be free to
> override it if you don't like it... just as you are free to completely disable the
> entire menu by adding beastie_disable=YES to loader.conf(8)).
>

[Royce Williams]

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:57 PM, David Demelier
<demelie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I have loader_logo="orb" and I still have a message at the right bottom
> >> with that stupid joke.

I know that you're passionate about this topic, but if you could drop
the subjective parts and focus on the facts, that would be more
constructive.

> Seriously, I don't understand why people waste time to create jokes like
> that instead of working on serious issues.

Because we're not robots. We need to occasionally shift gears to
avoid burning out. Taking a break to do something playful can
actually improve overall productivity.

Especially if you're pushing hard to get a world-class OS out the door
in your copious free time.

> >> Also in the future you can just forgot that crappy ideas as you can see,
> >> nobody liked it.

I actually thought that it was pretty cool. It may have needed an
easier off switch, but I think that it was harmless.

> Check again in the lists, I'm not the only one complaining on that.

This depends on which lists. I'm not the only one who thought it was
cool. People were passing it around and appreciating the reference.

I'm honestly mystified by the backlash on this. Did people panic
because they thought they'd been hacked? If so, future logo humor
could be adjusted to account for this.

I understand leaving out true code-based easter eggs, to keep code
clean and simple. But this was a humorous logo change for an alpha
release. It seems harmless to me.

Royce

[Teske, Devin]

On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:57 PM, David Demelier wrote:

> On 28.09.2013 00:12, Teske, Devin wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:06 PM, David Demelier wrote:
>>
>>> On 21.09.2013 12:40, Matthew Seaman wrote:
>>>> On 21/09/2013 11:31, O. Hartmann wrote:
>>>>> I'd like to switch off this silly "Nakatomi Socrates" message which
>>>>> reminds me on Linux and their childish naming schemes.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is only cosmetics, but it bothers me whenever I switch on the laptop.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess there is a switch already prsent to have in the bootloader
>>>>> config?
>>>>
>>>> It's turned off by default in more recent 9.2-STABLE
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise:
>>>>
>>>> loader_logo="orb"
>>>>
>>>> in /boot/loader.conf -- see loader.conf(5)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Matthew
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have loader_logo="orb" and I still have a message at the right bottom
>>> with that stupid joke.
>>>
>>
>> I already responded to this once.
>>
>> loader_version=""
>>
>> See version.4th(8).
>>
>>
>>> It's really pisses me off *now*.
>>
>> Why *now*? I already answered this... (link to archives below)
>>

>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2013-September/075260.html&k=%2FbkpAUdJWZuiTILCq%2FFnQg%3D%3D%0A&r=LTzUWWrRnz2iN3PtHDubWRSAh9itVJ%2BMUcNBCQ4tyeo%3D%0A&m=z7tFMIIWxpbu4NUJ6O%2BFBM29y7x%2BpF%2Bsj9kfA1f0JxU%3D%0A&s=f2e6eb61a04c40db454a365487d050393168dfb0d53318972e79c38283de3a50

>>
>> If you say that you tried this and it didn't work, then by all means...
>> come back (pissed off or not) and we'll debug the situation.
>>
>
> I already asked a few weeks ago what was this strange artwork on my boot
> loader and I was told to use loader_logo to completely disable it.
>
> I've first said that it's funny but I would not recommend to enable it
> by default because it's really not serious and the artwork was really
> immature in the scope of the FreeBSD project.
>
> Then I was "happy" because I get my orb as usual. And today, I've
> updated to 9.2-RELEASE SVN tag and saw there was again a message about
> this stupid "Nakatomi Socrates" version in green. So I needed to check
> again *why* this has been enabled by default and that's why it was
> starting to get my nerves.
>

The artwork and the name are separate.

The artwork is an RC/Beta easter-egg that disappears at release time.

The ability to display a loader_version however stays.

> I personally think (but you may totally disagree with) that an operating
> system *is* an operating system. And I really hate easter eggs or
> anything else not serious being integrated into the system. I think
> about a new user installing FreeBSD 9.2, I would not imagine his
> reaction front of this kind of "tribute" or whatever you call that. For
> me it stands for "that's not serious, it looks like a toy".
>

Only people downloading an RC or a BETA will see the artwork. This
very well could:

1. Drive more people to test RC/BETA cycles
2. Not be an impact to anybody because serious people don't deploy
RC or BETA builds to an enterprise.
3. It makes it very clear when you're using an RC or a BETA versus final

> Fortunately now it's just a "version" but I would really not imagine
> when the screen was looking with the "tribute" loader_logo.
>

Some folks have told me that they've permanently enabled the artwork.

Not everybody that uses FreeBSD uses it in a corporate setting. Naturally,
those in a corporate setting will be thankful that final releases won't ever
enable a tribute artwork by-default.

> Seriously, I don't understand why people waste time to create jokes like
> that instead of working on serious issues.
>

Actually... I flip that on its head.

If you work seriously on serious issues long enough... you'll become burned-
out. Let me just come right out and say it...

I coded it.

And after 8 years of "always serious" coding on "always serious" projects has
made me a dull boy. This little mini-project gave me something to work on that
lifted my spirits.

> You may think I'm putting to much significance on this kind of matter
> but I like (and I'm not the only one) serious, clean things.
>

Well, maybe the middle ground is that the code is a "seriously clean" thing.
It may not be "serious" but it is indeed "seriously clean."

Cleanliness allows you to add two lines to loader.conf(5) to kill it:

loader_logo="orb"
loader_version=""

But if you look closer, you'll see that it's really designed to give you or anybody
else a way to brand the OS.

PC-BSD changes brand.4th(8)
So does NuOS -- self-purported "FreeBSD Distro" (not fork, distro)
At $work, we change beastie.4th(8) and brand.4th(8)

The tribute -- disabled by default -- could be yet another entry-point for corporate
customers to brand their boxen for customers.

Example?

Leaving brand.4th(8) alone and just adding a set of tribute functions to produce
the custom boot screen if-and-ony-if loader_logo=tribute.

If NuOS had done that... I think it would have been a bit more professional looking
because a tribute screen can completely re-position elements of the screen
whereas they only changed the orb artwork and left everything else the same.

So...

Despite the fact that it may have started out as something less-serious to work on
(giving me a break from nearly a decade of hard [serious] work), it is designed to
be an entry-point for many things -- not just "kidding around".

Now...

You wouldn't want to go telling everybody that works for an *OS* for a decade or
more... "Thou shalt never stray from the path of being uber-serious!"

Come on...

Let us have some fun every now and then.

Because when we do have fun... we often find ways of turning that functionality into
something great (like the ability to use this for a custom boot screen in a fork or distro).

I agree with you that operating systems are supposed to be serious... but what about
the operating systems where the volunteers are dedicating double-digit years of their
life to a single project?

FreeBSD has a *lot* of those people. And I would be sad if they didn't have a chance
to have some fun every now and then.

> And the real reason that made me yell like that was that I needed to ask
> / complain a second time to remove that "tribute" thing again.
>

Well, I don't think you're going to get the Nakatomi Socrates name removed
from the final 9.2-RELEASE.

After all... how else are people going to know that there's loader_logo=tribute
to play with?

*smiles*

To be honest?

I started coding the ability to add a *version* to the bottom of the boot screen
so many years ago I can't even remember. However... the commit logs show
that I added this ability back in 9.0-RELEASE.

Here we are at 9.2-RELEASE and we're just now starting to use it.

It was *NOT* originally designed to display a *name* but instead a *version*.
See "man version.4th" for the full details.

However... I lagged on getting the modifications into loader(8)'s C code that
would actually export the $loader_version variable.

In reality, if you go back to 9.0-RELEASE and add loader_version to loader.conf
it will display the value you set.

A cabal approached me about re-purposing it to display a name.

So you see... with respect to displaying text at the bottom right of the boot screen,
.. we didn't have to code *anything*. It was an unused feature slated for version-
info (which *still* can be implemented... I'm just [as you say] working seriously on
too many other serious projects to get that in).

>> The person that recommended loader_logo was incorrectly thinking you
>> were talking about the ARTWORK that you get by default in RC1-RC3 which
>> is now non-default (requiring loader_logo="tribute" to enable beyond RC3).
>>
>> The "named releases" however are staying enabled by default.
>>
>> And as I answered in the archives...
>>
>> loader_version="whatever you want to name your release"
>>
>> or
>>
>> loader_version=""
>>
>> is how you customize the text which seems to piss you off so much.
>>
>
> Thanks.
>
>>
>>
>>> I already said it was okay to add a new
>>> logo for that stupid joke. But now, I have orb set and I still see that
>>> in my bootloader.
>>>
>>> How can I disable this forever ?!
>>>
>>

>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2013-September/075260.html&k=%2FbkpAUdJWZuiTILCq%2FFnQg%3D%3D%0A&r=LTzUWWrRnz2iN3PtHDubWRSAh9itVJ%2BMUcNBCQ4tyeo%3D%0A&m=z7tFMIIWxpbu4NUJ6O%2BFBM29y7x%2BpF%2Bsj9kfA1f0JxU%3D%0A&s=f2e6eb61a04c40db454a365487d050393168dfb0d53318972e79c38283de3a50

>>
>>
>>> Also in the future you can just forgot that crappy ideas as you can see,
>>> nobody liked it.
>>>
>>
>> Uh... I'm ignoring that.
>>
>
> Check again in the lists, I'm not the only one complaining on that.

I'm on 13 lists, and this thread is the only one that I can see where any complaint has been lodged.

Of course... I imagine that the cabal that commissioned the tribute kept me sheltered from those
that would underride my fervor to code the beast.
--
Devin

_____________
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.

[grenville armitage]

On 09/28/2013 08:06, David Demelier wrote:
[..]

> Also in the future you can just forgot that crappy ideas as you can see,
> nobody liked it.

I beg to differ.

cheers,
gja

[Ben Morrow]

Quoth David Demelier <demelie...@gmail.com>:

>
> I personally think (but you may totally disagree with) that an operating
> system *is* an operating system. And I really hate easter eggs or
> anything else not serious being integrated into the system. I think
> about a new user installing FreeBSD 9.2, I would not imagine his
> reaction front of this kind of "tribute" or whatever you call that. For
> me it stands for "that's not serious, it looks like a toy".

Personally I thoroughly approve of a joke every now and then, as long as
it doesn't get out of hand. It reassures me there are actual human
people working on this who care about what they're doing, rather than
some faceless humourless corporation only interested in profit margins.
This in turn reassures me that standards will be kept high and bugs will
be taken seriously, because that's what people who care do.

> Fortunately now it's just a "version" but I would really not imagine
> when the screen was looking with the "tribute" loader_logo.

While I like the idea of release names in general, I think it's
important not to make them more prominent than the real version numbers.
I've had to deal with Ubuntu users (I know very little about Ubuntu) in
other open-source contexts, and they tend to talk about 'hardy heron' or
'constipated koala' or what-have-you, which just leaves me thinking
'yes, but which is *more recent*?'. So I might rather the default
version string was something more like 'FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE (Nakatomi
Socrates)'.

Ben

[Freddie Cash]

On Sep 27, 2013 5:05 PM, "grenville armitage" <garm...@swin.edu.au> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 09/28/2013 08:06, David Demelier wrote:
> [..]
>
>> Also in the future you can just forgot that crappy ideas as you can see,
>> nobody liked it.
>
>
> I beg to differ.

I know it's not a poll, but myself and the 5 people in my office all
thought it was awesome, and will be leaving it enabled for as long as 9.2
is installed on our servers.

That definitely puts it above "nobody liked it".

Lighten up. Go outside, take a deep breath of fresh air. Move on. Life is
too short for this. :)

[Alfred Perlstein]

On 9/27/13 7:14 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:
> On Sep 27, 2013 5:05 PM, "grenville armitage" <garm...@swin.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09/28/2013 08:06, David Demelier wrote:
>> [..]
>>
>>> Also in the future you can just forgot that crappy ideas as you can see,
>>> nobody liked it.
>>
>> I beg to differ.
> I know it's not a poll, but myself and the 5 people in my office all
> thought it was awesome, and will be leaving it enabled for as long as 9.2
> is installed on our servers.
>
> That definitely puts it above "nobody liked it".
>
> Lighten up. Go outside, take a deep breath of fresh air. Move on. Life is
> too short for this. :)
>

Agreed. When it stop being fun, then it will see a decline in
participation.

-Alfred

[Kubilay Kocak]

Both of you have it *right* on the money :) A more discerning question
is *why* you thought it was awesome.

Poeple might think its obvious, but the answer is *not* a cool logo, nor
any Nakatomi reference.

The real answer is deeper than that, and goes to the heart of why we
feel affinities toward one individual, group, organisation or another.

The purpose is entirely non-technical, and *precisely* to be active in
honing FreeBSD's brand identity, personality and culture moving forward.

If the outcomes are a perception of a community that is approachable and
lighthearted, and encouraging participation, so much the better.

To those who read this thread, ask yourself first: What message do YOU
want to communicate to the world about who we are?

Now make your decisions follow from that :)

--
Kubilay "koobs" Kocak

[Darren Pilgrim]

Devin,

I just want to say that I really liked the reference. I was teaching
myself loader/forth and working on a version of it for my own amusement
when I saw the commit. Please do continue to make these silly things in
the future. I actually run FreeBSD in production and my boss loved it
so much we actually have an official change-order ticket to preconfigure
all of our production 9.2 systems to show the logo. A guy I work with
slated a hack to show it at the login prompt as well. :)

As for any of you who objected seriously: it's a joke, a tribute to one
of the better cult action movies, and a nice bit of pre-release fun.
While there are some Linux distros like RHEL where you can pay someone
to listen to your pointless complaints, Devin doesn't get a cent to put
up with your whingy little snit. In short, stuff it.

[Boris Samorodov]

28.09.2013 02:06, David Demelier пишет:

> On 21.09.2013 12:40, Matthew Seaman wrote:
>> On 21/09/2013 11:31, O. Hartmann wrote:
>>> I'd like to switch off this silly "Nakatomi Socrates" message which
>>> reminds me on Linux and their childish naming schemes.
>>>
>>> It is only cosmetics, but it bothers me whenever I switch on the laptop.
>>>
>>> I guess there is a switch already prsent to have in the bootloader
>>> config?
>>
>> It's turned off by default in more recent 9.2-STABLE

(As I understand the case)

The logo in question is (now) turned off...

>> Otherwise:
>> loader_logo="orb" [*]

>> in /boot/loader.conf -- see loader.conf(5)

.. but if someone want to use it, add that[*] line to loader.conf...

> I have loader_logo="orb"

.. just what you have done...

> and I still have a message at the right bottom
> with that stupid joke.

.. and actually get!

So it seems that you just misunderstood what Matthew had wrote.

--
WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve

[Phil Regnauld]

Teske, Devin (Devin.Teske) writes:
>
> If you work seriously on serious issues long enough... you'll become burned-
> out. Let me just come right out and say it...
>
> I coded it.

And thanks, you got me chuckling - nice to see some humor once in a while.

To the offended poster: read the last line of tunefs(8) - there's probably
many more places you could use serious time looking for deviations from
corporate correctnes.

> And after 8 years of "always serious" coding on "always serious" projects has
> made me a dull boy. This little mini-project gave me something to work on that
> lifted my spirits.

Been using it for 20, plan on using it for 20 more. Keep up the good work
:)

> Come on...
>
> Let us have some fun every now and then.

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/89296/what-does-the-windows-flag-in-the-linux-logo-of-kernel-3-11-mean

> Because when we do have fun... we often find ways of turning that functionality into
> something great (like the ability to use this for a custom boot screen in a fork or distro).

Or for kiosk setups where the machine displays something informative
on boot.

Phil

[Matthew Seaman]

On 28/09/2013 10:44, Boris Samorodov wrote:
> 28.09.2013 02:06, David Demelier пишет:
>> On 21.09.2013 12:40, Matthew Seaman wrote:
>>> On 21/09/2013 11:31, O. Hartmann wrote:
>>>> I'd like to switch off this silly "Nakatomi Socrates" message which
>>>> reminds me on Linux and their childish naming schemes.
>>>>
>>>> It is only cosmetics, but it bothers me whenever I switch on the laptop.
>>>>
>>>> I guess there is a switch already prsent to have in the bootloader
>>>> config?
>>>
>>> It's turned off by default in more recent 9.2-STABLE
>
> (As I understand the case)
>
> The logo in question is (now) turned off...
>
>>> Otherwise:
>>> loader_logo="orb" [*]
>>> in /boot/loader.conf -- see loader.conf(5)
>

> ... but if someone want to use it, add that[*] line to loader.conf...
>
>> I have loader_logo="orb"
>
> ... just what you have done...

>
>> and I still have a message at the right bottom
>> with that stupid joke.
>

> ... and actually get!

>
> So it seems that you just misunderstood what Matthew had wrote.

Actually, as Devin pointed out, I only had part of the answer.
Setting 'loader_logo' will change the big ascii art graphic. The other
bit is setting 'loader_version' which would suppress the 'Nakatomi
Socrates' text along side it.

Cheers,

Matthew

--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.

PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey

JID: mat...@infracaninophile.co.uk

[Matthew Seaman]

On 28/09/2013 11:32, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> To the offended poster: read the last line of tunefs(8) - there's probably
> many more places you could use serious time looking for deviations from
> corporate correctnes.

There used to be a function in the shutdown utility called
die_you_gravy_sucking_pig_dog() which was actually the very last
function call made by shutdown(8) on a normal system shutdown.

I believe humourless corporate types were instrumental in having that
function renamed to something bland a few years back.

However, now it's back, as of r238968:

http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sbin/shutdown/shutdown.c?r1=235855&r2=238968

This stuff comes and goes. Personally, I think the developers
exhibiting a sense of humour and a spark of personality is the sort of
thing that leads me to trust a lot more in a code base than their
appearing as a horde of bland corporate drones.

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:17:44 -0700
Alfred Perlstein <alf...@freebsd.org> wrote:

> On 9/27/13 7:14 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:
> >
> > Lighten up. Go outside, take a deep breath of fresh air. Move on. Life is
> > too short for this. :)
> >
> Agreed. When it stop being fun, then it will see a decline in
> participation.

Hear, hear! Everybody should remember this!
--
Torfinn Ingolfsen <torfinn....@getmail.no>

[Warren Block]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013, Ben Morrow wrote:

> Quoth David Demelier <demelie...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> I personally think (but you may totally disagree with) that an operating
>> system *is* an operating system. And I really hate easter eggs or
>> anything else not serious being integrated into the system. I think
>> about a new user installing FreeBSD 9.2, I would not imagine his
>> reaction front of this kind of "tribute" or whatever you call that. For
>> me it stands for "that's not serious, it looks like a toy".
>
> Personally I thoroughly approve of a joke every now and then, as long as
> it doesn't get out of hand.

The problem with humor is that it's subjective. Think of a joke that
lots of people found funny, but you did not. Now put that same joke
somewhere you will be forced to see it and be reminded of it often.

After a short time, it's not just unfunny, it's irritating. Or, as
someone once put it, "there's a fine line between clever and stupid."

So this kind of thing should be easily disabled. There should also be
some warning, so when people see a vastly different boot screen, their
first thought is not "was I hacked?".

[Jakub Lach]

This thread has wonderful bike shed potential.



--
View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/9-2-PRE-switch-off-that-stupid-Nakatomi-Socrates-tp5845622p5847358.html

Sent from the freebsd-stable mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

[Chris H]

I nominate
HAL 2000
for 10-RELEASE
Of course it would need to be bold red blinking text.
maybe using an ASCII escape sequence for those not using Graphics Mode?

-- sorry. I couldn't resist. :P

--Chris

[Kevin Oberman]

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Jakub Lach <jakub...@mailplus.pl> wrote:

> This thread has wonderful bike shed potential.
>

Potential? I think we passed potential at least 6 messages into this
thread.
--
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
E-mail: rkob...@gmail.com

[J David]

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 6:57 PM, David Demelier
<demelie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seriously, I don't understand why people waste time to create jokes like
> that instead of working on serious issues.
>

> You may think I'm putting to much significance on this kind of matter
> but I like (and I'm not the only one) serious, clean things.

Says the port maintainer of nsnake.

Get over yourself.

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Teske, Devin <Devin...@fisglobal.com> wrote:
> I coded it.

You are the wind beneath my wings.

Thanks!

[C. P. Ghost]

On 28.09.2013 11:32, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> Teske, Devin (Devin.Teske) writes:
>> If you work seriously on serious issues long enough... you'll become burned-
>> out. Let me just come right out and say it...
>>
>> I coded it.
> And thanks, you got me chuckling - nice to see some humor once in a while.
>
> To the offended poster: read the last line of tunefs(8) - there's probably
> many more places you could use serious time looking for deviations from
> corporate correctnes.

Humor can even be etched in silicon, like e.g. on an IC created by Siemens:

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/bunny.html

;-)

-cpghost.

--
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/

[Charles Sprickman]

On Sep 29, 2013, at 3:28 PM, C. P. Ghost wrote:

> On 28.09.2013 11:32, Phil Regnauld wrote:
>> Teske, Devin (Devin.Teske) writes:
>>> If you work seriously on serious issues long enough... you'll become burned-
>>> out. Let me just come right out and say it...
>>>
>>> I coded it.
>> And thanks, you got me chuckling - nice to see some humor once in a while.
>>
>> To the offended poster: read the last line of tunefs(8) - there's probably
>> many more places you could use serious time looking for deviations from
>> corporate correctnes.
>
> Humor can even be etched in silicon, like e.g. on an IC created by Siemens:
>
> http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/bunny.html

Cisco too, besides weird Star Wars ROM messages, you have stuff like the
"BFR" (Big F*cking Router, after Big F*cking Gun in Doom) screened on the PCB:

https://www.kumari.net/gallery/index.php/Technology/Networking/BFR_2_001
https://www.kumari.net/gallery/index.php/Technology/Networking/BFR_2

I have no idea what Sluggo and Nancy are doing on this board:

https://www.kumari.net/gallery/index.php/Technology/Networking/CIMG0988

Charles

[Ricardo Ferreira]

keep it cool.... u have others like:



man chmod...

BUGS
There is no perm option for the naughty bits of a horse.

and so many others. So...

[Matthieu Volat]

I find strange nobody mentioned the one in make :)

% make love
Not War.

-- Mazhe

[Joe Holden]

On 30/09/2013 14:50, Matthieu Volat wrote:
>
> Le 30 sept. 2013 � 01:54, Ricardo Ferreira <ricardo....@sotechdatacenter.com.br> a �crit :

Alas, not for much longer as bmake doesn't handle that target:

root@build:/pseudosrc/misc # make love
make: don't know how to make love. Stop

[Lee Dilkie]

On 9/30/2013 10:12 AM, Joe Holden wrote:
> root@build:/pseudosrc/misc # make love
> make: don't know how to make love. Stop

In this day and age, there is no excuse for not knowing how to make love.

[Robison, Dave]

On 09/27/2013 15:06, David Demelier wrote:

>
> Also in the future you can just forgot that crappy ideas as you can see,
> nobody liked it.
>

Glad you aren't my dad, Grinch.




--
Dave Robison
Sales Solution Architect II
FIS Banking Solutions
510/621-2089 (w)
530/518-5194 (c)
510/621-2020 (f)
da...@vicor.com
david....@fisglobal.com

_____________
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.

[David Demelier]

Nice, but how does it handle if a Makefile contains a love target?

Regards,

David.

[Teske, Devin]

Right, bmake gives us all the chance to implement love in our own
unuque way ;D

making love in each port can now be a different experience.

OK OK, I digress. (Grinz)
--
Devin

_____________
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.

[David Demelier]

My apologies for being rude the few days ago.

I don't know what happened to me, I'm usually not naughty like that.
Bapt who knows me IRL would also say that. My personal life is not at
its best state currently and everything that upset me get me nervous
and rude..

I've been using FreeBSD for 5 years and developed some patches /
improvements which honoured an entry to the additional contributors
and I don't really want my name to be removed :-).

Seriously, I feel really embarrassed for what I've said.To really
explain why I got angry like that (but that does not excuse my words)
is the following situation:

1. I've first stambled accross the new boot graphical Nakatomi
Socrates art. I've been afraid of being hacked or something gone wrong
in the SVN branches. Fortunately, quickly, some of the developers told
me that it was a joke / tribute for the 9.2 RELEASE, then I just said
"I would not recommend to set it as default" but with very clean
words. And then I disabled it using loader_logo="orb" as they said.

2. More than one month later, I upgraded to 9.2-RELEASE and then I saw
the "Nakatomi Socrates" version shown in the right bottom and that's
why I first thought that it was reenabled again (even in orb logo, I
didn't know the existence of loader_version before!). So that's why I
felt so angry.. Nevertheless this does not excuse my behavior.

I love FreeBSD and still hack, develop it and don't want to get in
troubles with *you* so please agree to my apologies.

PS: I'm not a dinosaur as you may have thought, I like the "small
jokes" that you can see for example in the syscons screen savers, the
jokes in the man pages and such. But these things are more "hidden"
and you need some research to get them which provides more excitement
when you see them, on the other hand the "Nakatomi Socrates" art /
version were *for me* a bit too intense as you see them by default,
without enabling something.

Again, sorry for that noise.

Love, regards.

David.

[Teske, Devin]

Smiles.

Agreed and forgiven.

In hindsight, it would be those who've added loader_logo=orb
in the beginning that didn't notice that this is once-again default.
You can remove it (keeping only the loader_version="" entry).
--
Devin

> PS: I'm not a dinosaur as you may have thought, I like the "small
> jokes" that you can see for example in the syscons screen savers, the
> jokes in the man pages and such. But these things are more "hidden"
> and you need some research to get them which provides more excitement
> when you see them, on the other hand the "Nakatomi Socrates" art /
> version were *for me* a bit too intense as you see them by default,
> without enabling something.
>
> Again, sorry for that noise.
>
> Love, regards.
>
> David.

_____________
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.

[Phil Regnauld]

Teske, Devin (Devin.Teske) writes:
> >
> > Nice, but how does it handle if a Makefile contains a love target?
>
> Right, bmake gives us all the chance to implement love in our own
> unuque way ;D

^^^^^^

Is that halfway between eunuch and unique love ?

Yes, it's off topic at this point, but heck, I think it's important
to underline that humor doesn't have an absolute metric, and as long
as it doesn't interfere with the functionality or the integrity of
the OS, it has its place :)

[Teske, Devin]

On Sep 30, 2013, at 3:01 PM, Phil Regnauld wrote:

> Teske, Devin (Devin.Teske) writes:
>>>
>>> Nice, but how does it handle if a Makefile contains a love target?
>>
>> Right, bmake gives us all the chance to implement love in our own
>> unuque way ;D
> ^^^^^^
>
> Is that halfway between eunuch and unique love ?
>

You got it ;D
--
Devin

> Yes, it's off topic at this point, but heck, I think it's important
> to underline that humor doesn't have an absolute metric, and as long
> as it doesn't interfere with the functionality or the integrity of
> the OS, it has its place :)

_____________
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.

[Darren Pilgrim]

On 9/30/2013 11:23 AM, David Demelier wrote:
> Nice, but how does it handle if a Makefile contains a love target?

The easter egg only appears if the target isn't defined.

[Ullrich Franke]

>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 20:23:16 +0200
> From: David Demelier <demelie...@gmail.com>
> To: freebsd...@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: 9.2-PRE: switch off that stupid "Nakatomi Socrates"
> Message-ID: <5249C194...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>
> On 30.09.2013 15:50, Matthieu Volat wrote:
>>

>> Le 30 sept. 2013 ? 01:54, Ricardo Ferreira <ricardo....@sotechdatacenter.com.br> a ?crit :

>>
>>> Em 29-09-2013 19:11, Charles Sprickman escreveu:
>>>> On Sep 29, 2013, at 3:28 PM, C. P. Ghost wrote:
>>>>

>>>>> On 28.09.2013 11:32, Phil Regnauld wrote:
>>>>>> Teske, Devin (Devin.Teske) writes:

>>>>>>> If you work seriously on serious issues long enough... you'll become burned-
>>>>>>> out. Let me just come right out and say it...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I coded it.
>>>>>> And thanks, you got me chuckling - nice to see some humor once in a while.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To the offended poster: read the last line of tunefs(8) - there's probably
>>>>>> many more places you could use serious time looking for deviations from
>>>>>> corporate correctnes.
>>>>> Humor can even be etched in silicon, like e.g. on an IC created by Siemens:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/bunny.html
>>>> Cisco too, besides weird Star Wars ROM messages, you have stuff like the
>>>> "BFR" (Big F*cking Router, after Big F*cking Gun in Doom) screened on the PCB:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.kumari.net/gallery/index.php/Technology/Networking/BFR_2_001
>>>> https://www.kumari.net/gallery/index.php/Technology/Networking/BFR_2
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea what Sluggo and Nancy are doing on this board:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.kumari.net/gallery/index.php/Technology/Networking/CIMG0988
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> -cpghost.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
>>>>>

>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> freebsd...@freebsd.org mailing list
>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stabl...@freebsd.org"
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> freebsd...@freebsd.org mailing list
>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stabl...@freebsd.org"
>>>>

>>> keep it cool.... u have others like:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> man chmod...
>>>
>>> BUGS
>>> There is no perm option for the naughty bits of a horse.
>>>
>>> and so many others. So...
>>>
>>
>> I find strange nobody mentioned the one in make :)
>>
>> % make love
>> Not War.
>>
>

> Nice, but how does it handle if a Makefile contains a love target?
>

> Regards,
>
> David.
>
>
>

We really should have a /bin/bikeshed. :-)

--
Ullrich Franke

[Ollivier Robert]

According to Ullrich Franke on Tue, Oct 01, 2013 at 05:01:00PM +0200:

> We really should have a /bin/bikeshed. :-)

/usr/bin/bikesched

(now it begins anew :)

--
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- rob...@keltia.net
In memoriam to Ondine, our 2nd child: http://ondine.keltia.net/

[Freddie Cash]

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Ollivier Robert
<rob...@keltia.freenix.fr>wrote:

> According to Ullrich Franke on Tue, Oct 01, 2013 at 05:01:00PM +0200:
> > We really should have a /bin/bikeshed. :-)
>
> /usr/bin/bikesched

Would schedulers get their own binary? Wouldn't it just be compiled into
the kernel? Or are you proposing a modular scheduler using the bike
algorithm?

;)


--
Freddie Cash
fjw...@gmail.com

[Kimmo Paasiala]

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Freddie Cash <fjw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Ollivier Robert
> <rob...@keltia.freenix.fr>wrote:
>
>> According to Ullrich Franke on Tue, Oct 01, 2013 at 05:01:00PM +0200:
>> > We really should have a /bin/bikeshed. :-)
>>
>> /usr/bin/bikesched
>
>
> Would schedulers get their own binary? Wouldn't it just be compiled into
> the kernel? Or are you proposing a modular scheduler using the bike
> algorithm?
>
> ;)
>
>

I think that FreeBSD 11 should be named as "Tufnel St.Hubbins".

"When you need that little extra push over the cliff, FreeBSD 11"