Re: Globality
Gary Leach
There's a strong likelihood that we in America get an even more
fragmented view of the rest of the world from newspapers, TV and our
so-called "talk radio." One listen to Rush Limbaugh should tell you
plenty about the way too many Americans think, and want to think.
But anyway, I fear that American Disney comics, at least as
periodicals, are soon going to go the way of the dodo. Then again, I
have this fear for periodical comics in general. And I don't see
digital distribution as any sort of solution, just considering the
contractural issues that would be involved and the lack of a clear
avenue to generating adequate revenues.
I'll be happy as a clam to be proved wrong about all that, though.
Gary
> Sometimes we (in Europe) get a different idea from TV fragments coming
> from the USA.
> I remember a documentary about a country&western group being
> completely
> banned from USA radio because they had been "un-patriottic". It didn't
> matter how much they disagreed with the American president, they *had*
> to support him...
> (Okay, this may be getting a bit too much about politics. For balance,
> let me state that the prime minister of my own country is a real jerk
> and I can't wait for him to be replaced.)
>
> Apparently, these images are a result of selection, and therefore not
> representative for the entire USA population.
Robert Hutchings
Some thoughts:
With respect to where Gemstone comic books are sold—comic shops, Barnes and Noble, etc., I have to believe that the folks at Gemstone know that the lack of visibility is a critical issue. I suspect that bookstores operate like supermarkets: In the supermarket industry, a store makes most of its money by selling a particular space on the shelf to a particular company, rather than in a markup from wholesale to retail. So, Kellogg’s pays to have its cereal on a particular shelf because research has shown that the shelf is the closest to eye level and that products close to eye level sell better, and so on. End caps—the ends of the supermarket aisles—are particularly expensive because practically everyone walking in the general area of that aisle sees the product. I would not be surprised in the slightest if chain bookstores charge publishers of books, magazines, music, etc. to have their products on display. How else could they possibly offer 35%
discounts on books? Depending on some variables, they buy them at about 60% of their retail cost, which leaves about 5% profit, minus employees, shipping, utilities, etc.
Having been a lifelong buyer of Disney comic books, I finally quit buying them a year ago. Two reasons: first, Gemstone was reprinting too many of the stories I already had. Second, I didn’t like most of the stories produced by the newer writers (at least those Gemstone printed, anyway). Whether they’re American or European or Venusian didn’t matter; they simply—in my mind—weren’t good enough to buy. There weren’t many longer stories, the personalities of the characters tended to be too different from the personalities I grew up with (Barks, Rosa, and Van Horn), the stories seemed too formulaic—it was like the story was planned out in advance instead of kind of taking on a life of its own as the writer wrote (which was the case with many of Barks’s stories; I don’t know about Rosa or van Horn), and the stories just didn’t suck me in. In truth, what I wanted was something on the level of Barks, Rosa, and Van Horn. Sometimes some
writers got to that level: some of Rota’s stuff is very impressive, as is Scarpa’s and a few others. But those stories didn’t appear often enough. It’s possible that this is all an issue of translating and dialoguing, but boy, I guess I don’t think that’s really it. I’ve always found David Gerstein to be pretty top-notch, and the supporting cast of dialoguers isn’t bad. Somewhat interestingly, though, I think the art put out now is generally really good—just not good enough to overcome the shortcomings of the story.
Robert Hutchings
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Arthur
> With respect to where Gemstone comic books are sold—comic shops, Barnes
and Noble, etc.,
> I have to believe that the folks at Gemstone know that the lack of
visibility is a critical issue.
Back in 2002, when Gemstone announced that they were planning to start
publishing Disney comics, there were some interviews with the owner Steve
Geppi where he laid out his plan for distributing the comics to stores like
Wal Mart and Target. At that time he seemed pretty confident about being
able to do this. I wonder what went wrong and why this didn't happen.
Gemstone comics are being sold online at Amazon.com, Walmart.com etc, but I
don't think that's what he was talking about.
Here are a quote from the interview with Steve Geppi at
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=1667
"Kuo-Yu Lang, our top guy at Diamond Book Distributors, has relayed to me in
his preliminary discussions with the Wal Mart's, Costco's, Target's and
Barnes and Nobles of the world that there's quite a bit of interest. One of
the luxuries we have on this side of first publication is that we can
solicit their input as to size and shape as it relates to their appetite for
purchase orders. We feel confident that we are going to get a good response
there and expect that they'll sell well."
Carl Lund
>
> Harry:
>> I miss the highly literate
>> translations of European stories in Gladstone Series I (as
>> well as the erudite commentary often provided)
>>
>
> I must admit that I hated these "translations". It was more or less like
> saying "the stories are not good enough in their own right, let's add
> some stuff in the translation to make them acceptable".
> That didn't work for me (and for the same reason, the much-praised
> German translations of Barks stories didn't work for me either).
>
Again, my understanding at the time was that Gladstone was working from
"literal" translations made from the original language into English.
Such literal translations are almost never of high quality in any
language. This has nothing to do with the quality of the original
stories. So Gladstone wasn't saying the original stories weren't good.
They were polishing the literal translation script provided to them. I
don't have the references in front of me, but as an example, there was a
story printed in an early Gladstone comic that had been printed in one
of the last issues of the Western Publishing run. The plot was the
same, but the Gladstone version, as I recall, tied the story more
thoroughly into the Duck universe. (I believe it involved the ducklings
adopting a dog. Gladstone's version has Donald say, "You already have a
dog." Western's did not. Hence, the allusion to Bolivar/Bornworthy
which, to me, makes the story better and richer.)
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Francesco Spreafico
> Donald say, "You already have a dog." Western's did not. Hence, the
> allusion to Bolivar/Bornworthy which, to me, makes the story better and
> richer.)
I don't get it. Was the reference to Bolivar in the original story? If
it was, Gladstone's version is better, if it wasn't Western version
is. It really is as simple as that. Adding references is always a bad
habit (even worse than removing them), and all translators should
refrain from doing that. And of course adding (or removing) references
has got nothing to do with the quality of the language. You don't
polish a rough translation by adding or removing references, you
polish it rephrasing sentences in better English.
--
Francesco
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Fluks, H.W. (Harry)
> my understanding at the time was that Gladstone was working from
> "literal" translations made from the original language into English.
Yes, you're right. That requires (and justifies) some re-writing of the
text.
> it involved the ducklings adopting a dog.
> Gladstone's version has Donald say, "You already have a
> dog." Western's did not. Hence, the allusion to Bolivar/Bornworthy
> which, to me, makes the story better and richer.
To me it makes it worse, as Francesco Spreafico explained.
There are thousands of stories (in the USA) where Donald doesn't have a
dog. Even quite a few where it is essential to the story that Donald
doesn't have a dog. There is no use at all to add a reference to the few
stories where he *does* have a dog.
Apart from that, Geoffrey Blum often added references to literature and
music. These references were not at all necessary for the story, so to
me they are too "forced".
(BTW, an *occasional* reference is fine, if it doesn't disturb the flow
of the story.)
--Harry.
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timo ronkainen
Hello all!
Especially Italian members. I need to find one story, probably from Topolino, but Italian one for sure.
Horst Schroeder writes in his article "Views on the European Disneys" published in The Barks Collector #11 1979 issue, about one Scrooge story:
"In business he [Italian Scrooge] is even more unscrupulous, and should by right be confined to jail. This in fact happened once, when he burglarized the office of his rival. He even managed to turn this into a nifty profit. From his cellmate, Beagle Boy, he learned that by writing his autobiography as a criminal he could strike it rich. This was after the Watergate, and in a story which dealt with corruption, although not on that same level. The jail officials were bribed by the beagles, who had a good business going from the jail cells. There was never the slightest hint that this had been put to a stop by the end of the story."
There is no code or anything else about the story. Could someone indentify it from this description? Year? Issue?
Thanks in advance!
Best Wishes
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist --
- Timo Ronkainen ----------------
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"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
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Søren Krarup Olesen
> Especially Italian members. I need to find one story, probably from
> Topolino, but Italian one for sure.
> Horst Schroeder writes in his article "Views on the European Disneys"
> published in The Barks Collector #11 1979 issue, about one Scrooge story:
>
> "In business he [Italian Scrooge] is even more unscrupulous, and should
> by right be confined to jail. This in fact happened once, when he
> burglarized the office of his rival. He even managed to turn this into a
> nifty profit. From his cellmate, Beagle Boy, he learned that by writing
> his autobiography as a criminal he could strike it rich. This was after
> the Watergate, and in a story which dealt with corruption, although not
> on that same level. The jail officials were bribed by the beagles, who
> had a good business going from the jail cells. There was never the
> slightest hint that this had been put to a stop by the end of the story."
>
> There is no code or anything else about the story. Could someone
> indentify it from this description? Year? Issue?
From the description it can only be
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1187-A
Søren
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Niels Houlberg Hansen
>I need to find one story, probably from Topolino, but Italian one for
sure.
autobiography as a criminal
>he could strike it rich.
It could be this one: http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1187-A
(Typical of Martina to write something like this.)
Kind regards
Niels
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John Lustig
also taken literal translations and re-scripted them--for Viz not
Disney. So I've thought about this issue a bit over the years. Sometimes
the literal translations don't make a lot of sense so you have to
improvise. It's not always the fault of the original writer. It's not
even necessarily the fault of the translator. Sometimes things just
don't translate. Of course, the person re-scripting the story should try
to respect the intent of the original writer. But I'd rather have a
good, new joke put into one of my scripts than have the re-writer try to
include a joke that just doesn't work in that culture.
On the other hand, sometimes stories stink to begin with. (Not mine, I
hope, but I'll leave that judgment to others.) In the early days of
Gladstone, the editor would often see great art for European stories;
order the art from Egmont or one of the other licensees and then receive
the translations only to see that the stories were less than wonderful.
(Or so I've been told.) Since Gladstone couldn't afford not to use the
art, the stories were rewritten.
Yes. The re-dialoguer should respect the original story--if it's
good--and try to stick as closely to it as possible. (I work hard on all
my stories. I don't want someone else mucking it up.) But if a story is
bad then the person doing the re-writing has a responsibility to improve
it...assuming he or she has the skill to do so. A gifted re-scripter
will almost always stick to the original storyline if it's a good story.
An untalented re-scripter is more likely to change every script--even a
great one.
So I'm more concerned with whether I get a talented re-writer than
whether he/she changes an occasional gag or inserts a new reference.
--
Best Wishes,
John Lustig
Botto Armando
> "In business he [Italian Scrooge] is even more unscrupulous, and
should by right be confined to jail. This in fact happened once, when he
burglarized the office of his rival. He even managed to turn this into a
nifty profit. From his cellmate, Beagle Boy, he learned that by writing
his autobiography as a criminal he could strike it rich. This was after
the Watergate, and in a story which dealt with corruption, although not
on that same level. The jail officials were bribed by the beagles, who
had a good business going from the jail cells. There was never the
slightest hint that this had been put to a stop by the end of the
story."
There is no code or anything else about the story. Could someone
indentify it from this description? Year? Issue?
Judging from your description and from the one in Inducks, this is
probably
Guido Martina's "Zio Paperone e le memorabili memorie" (1978), drawn by
Giorgio Cavazzano:
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1187-A
I'm not 100% certain, though, as I've never read that story...
Ciao,
Armando
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timo ronkainen
Hello!
Thanks for Søren and Armando! If you both say so, it must be the one! ;-) I thought it was never published in Finland, but it is! I haven't read it. Have to search the Finnish Taskukirja, where it is.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist --
- Timo Ronkainen ----------------
- YO-kylä 52 A 26 ----------------
- 20540 Turku --------------------
- Finland --------------------------
- 044 20 46 455------------------
- tim...@hotmail.com tim...@yahoo.com ¨¨
Personal: http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/ ¨¨
Ankkalinnan Pamaus: http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/ ¨¨
Kvaak-sarjakuvaportaali: http://www.kvaak.fi
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on a cowslip - far from me!"
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Gary Leach
> In the early days of Gladstone, the editor would often see great
> art for European stories; order the art from Egmont or one of the
> other licensees and then receive the translations only to see that
> the stories were less than wonderful. (Or so I've been told.) Since
> Gladstone couldn't afford not to use the art, the stories were
> rewritten.
Stories ordered by Gladstone were indeed chosen on the basis of their
visual quality. And all too often the English dialogue that came with
them read, especially in the early days, like something a five-year-
old would considered clumsy and unsophisticated. Whatever the reason
for that, we were not about to publish those stories verbatim.
Moreover, and what should be no surprise to anyone here, Gladstone
had standards based on the narrative skills of Carl Barks. However
unattainable those standards may have been, the rewriters knew that's
what they were shooting for and in fact wanted to shoot for,
constrained only by the parameters of stories' visuals.
Gary
Kriton Kyrimis
> However unattainable those
> standards may have been, the rewriters knew that's what they were
> shooting for and in fact wanted to shoot for, constrained only by the
> parameters of stories' visuals.
Does this mean that they produced scripts that matched the visuals, but did
not necessarily have anything to do with the original story, i.e., something
like what Woody Allen did in "What's Up Tiger Lily?"
Kriton.
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Gary Leach
>> However unattainable those standards may have been, the rewriters
>> knew that's what they were shooting for and in fact wanted to
>> shoot for, constrained only by the parameters of stories' visuals.
>
> Does this mean that they produced scripts that matched the visuals,
> but did not necessarily have anything to do with the original
> story, i.e., something like what Woody Allen did in "What's Up
> Tiger Lily?"
This did happen on occasion. I remember one DuckTales story I rewrote
that I just had to refurbish. The art was such that I was able to
recast the "villain" of the piece and change his motivation, which
amounted to giving him a motivation in the first place. The original
verbiage made the character out as nothing more than an inexplicable
idiot.
Gary