F2B fields; to be level within which tolerance?

[Peter G]

Dear members of the F2B Group

While I have recently suggested to increase the tolerance within which
a field to fly F2B on must be level from +/-30 cm up to +/- 60 cm., I
need to add that measurements quantifying the slope of the 2008 W/C
grass field in Landres, France are under way now. I will report
findings asasp.

Meanwhile, please feel free comment on the new tolerance.

regards, Peter Germann

[Paul]

I agree with the tolerance. However, I would add some additional
qualifications to it.

I believe the tolerance should be +\- 30 CM, from the center of the
circle. This would allow the field to slope 60 cm total form one side
to the other. The way it is written, the +\- could all be on one side,
and have a 60 cm height difference from the circle center. I find that
unacceptable.

I also think the horizontal level flight should be with respect to the
circle center. This way level flight will not be high all the way
around the circle. Relative to the circle center would allow a
horizontal level flight slightly lower to the ground on one side, and
slightly higher on the opposite side. Level horizontal flight relative
to the highest spot on the circle would be a very uncomfortable way to
fly, if the circle was at the maximum difference!

Paul Walker

[Keith Renecle]

This sounds like a logical solution. We must then remember that this makes
the high side of the circle rather difficult with a 1.2 metre (4 ft.) height
plus minus 30 cm. I have some footage of Yuriy Yatsenko pulling out at 2 ft.
from the first inverted pullout in the reverse wingover. This was in Spain
in 2006.

Paul, did you find it uncomfortable on the grass circle in Landres? I
unfortunately have no video of your flights on the grass circle. Can you
recall if you were flying level at around 4 ft. on the high side of the
circle? I suppose that this is not a good question with the turbulence
blowing all of us up and down more that the allowed tolerance!

The markers were placed with 5 ft. measured from the highest point by the
looks of things. I've copied the markers in the photo's that I sent
previously, and lowered them by 30 cm. As you can see, the height of 1,2
metres, or 4 ft. is rather low. Having said that, pilot's can always select
to fly at the upper extreme of the tolerance, and this will be as shown by
Igor's model in the photo's below. Thanks for the suggestion and let's also
get some opinions from the others.

Keith Renecle

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[Keith Renecle]

I see that only one of my pictures came out, so let me try this again. Here
is the photo showing the high side of the circle.

Keith R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul" <go_s...@comcast.net>
To: "F2B Group" <f2b-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: F2B fields; to be level within which tolerance?


>

[go_s...@comcast.net]

I attempted to fly exactly as I describe. Low on the high side, and high on the low side.  Clearly not 1.2 M on the high side.

 

No, it really didn't bother mee too much. What bothered me more were the trees adjacent to the high side.  It was the visual difference, and the bad wind that would come over and through them. Because of these, the small hight difference was the least of my worries on that circle!

 

Paul

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[Keith Renecle]

Thanks Paul, I can only speak for myself, and my main intention on that circle was .....survival. Without these distractions and turbulence, I firmly believe that on any sloped surface all pilots fly virtually like a gyro or spinning top, and fly a spirit level flight path. As you rightly say: "Low on the high side and high on the low side."

 

Keith R

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[aage wiberg]

I agree with Paul that slopes should be measured from the pilot’s position. Landres is a great place for W. Ch. They are great people in Landres and France, and have energy for repeated W. Ch.. Maybe Landres will be used again. I do agree that the vision and turbulence problems were far more troublesome. Removal of the trees would be highly desirable. Or moving the circle.

 Is it too far out to include in the demands for W. Ch. F2B flying circles that they must be free from nearby turbulence creating objects such as high trees etc.?

 

In my memory Norrklöbing in Sweden 1996 was the best site ever for me. I still dream of this big open area and miles of asphalt for practice. The vision of maybe 8 or 9 pilots training at the same time was amazing. That was stunt heaven.

 

Aage.

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: f2b-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:f2b-...@googlegroups.com] På vegne af go_stu...@comcast.net
Sendt: 27. juli 2009 21:07
Til: f2b-...@googlegroups.com
Emne: Re: F2B fields; to be level within which tolerance?

[Keith Renecle]

That would be nice to add to the rules..............no turbulence etc. Could I also add some overcast conditions with a gentle breeze that stays exactly in the same direction??

 

Sweden was my first world champs and I certainly remember the excellent flying site well, plus the good organization etc. I must also admit however, that the last Euro Champs site in Serbia was also great. It was another air force base with endless practice space. Pity that it all fell apart this time!

 

Keith R

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[aage wiberg]

Well – I wasn’t just joking.

 

 It is far from desirable to have tall trees growing just up to a contest circle for a world championship. Weather and wind we can pray or wish for. It is different with trees. If we can seriously discuss a 35 cm up and down at the circle, the near surroundings should also be a matter where it is appropriate to have some demands to the site where the circles are placed at a world championship.  

 

Aage W.

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: f2b-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:f2b-...@googlegroups.com] På vegne af Keith Renecle
Sendt: 28. juli 2009 11:55
Til: f2b-...@googlegroups.com

[Peter G]

The measurement of the Landres site is on its way. I will report
findings asap, in order to resume the "horizontal" discussion.

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