[f-AA] FLAPS AND LIMITATIONS XXXX Cessna related###

[steu...@theunion.net]

Sorry Rafael, but back a long time ago I ferried a brand new Cessna 152 From Winfield Kansas to Nevada County California and the plane had flaps that ended at thirty degrees.  It was a so called "Safety measure". And also all six Cessna 150'S had forty degrees maximum. In my two thousand hours spent in Cessna 172'S and 175" I never flew one that had any more than forty degrees. THE REAL ROBERT IN PENN VALLEY WHERE THE TEMPERATURE IS ONLY UP TO ONE-HUNDRED DEGREES AT 0138 HRS. By the way, my three favorites were a 1956 Cessna 150 with a straight fuselage and manual flaps, and a 1956 Cessna 172 with manual flaps, a straight tail and fuselage, and chair high seats for the pilot and co-pilot. The 58 Cessna 175'S had the same manual flaps, chair high seats and straight tail and fuselage. They were also equipped with an 0300 six cylinder engine that was smooth as glass, ran with an under drive prop at 3100 RPM'S plus and produced 175 horse power.these were a joy to fly, cl

imbed
like a home sick Angel,and cruised in the 140+ mile per hour class. Then Cessna "modernized the planes and made them slower, uglier and less able to handle the rigors of Baja California dirt strips.<br><blockquote class="reply_block" style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 1em; padding-left: 1em"><hr size="1">-----Original Message-----<br>From: Rafael <bot...@verizon.net><br>To: aer...@westmont.edu<br>Date: 06/30/13 11:07<br>Subject: Re: [f-AA] Aeronca Digest, Vol 70, Issue 37<br><br><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Full flap regard;less of wind? And the 152-172s with 45 degrees of flap?<br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 6/30/13, Tony Buttacav <i><aeron...@yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;


MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>F</blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote>
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[Richard Murray]

The Real Robert,

I think you made a typo when you listed the 1956 Cessna 150 as a favorite. 1959 was the first year they produced the 150 and yes it was fast and a treat to fly compared to subsequent efforts on Cessna's part to improve on their design.

Richard in OH wishing the weather breaks in Penn Valley and that high pressure system grows legs.

[Tony Buttacavoli]

my favorite 150 was a '61 razorback that i flew in England when I was a brand new PPL,my second favorite was a '77 that I flew all over the Mojave building X-country time for my commercial ticket,throttling back to idle and climbing in the thermals out of Borrego Springs,cutting across the Edwards restricted area enroute to Mojave,and God affirming spectacular sunrises on the way to Apple Valley for pancakes, are among my fond 150 memories.
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 7/1/13, Richard Murray <murra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [f-AA] FLAPS AND LIMITATIONS XXXX Cessna related###
To: aer...@westmont.edu, steu...@theunion.net
Date: Monday, July 1, 2013, 6:24 AM

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

[Roger Anderson]

Tony.  When you were flying around the Mojave in the C150, at what airport were you based?  roger 

---

From: "Tony Buttacavoli" <aeron...@yahoo.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 6:14:21 AM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] FLAPS AND LIMITATIONS XXXX Cessna related###

[Tony Buttacav]

Twenty nine palms ( stumps) !!!

_______________________________________________

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Another issue with slipping the old 40 degree flap 172s and even 150s, but
to a lesser extent, is tail stall. The pumping of the elevator that someone
else mentioned is incipient tail stall. I've had cases where this was a
suspected cause of accidents. You can also induce it in a Cessna 170B,
which is the 170 version with the modern wing and 40 degrees of flaps.
The recovery from a tail stall is counter-intuitive also - it takes back
pressure on the yoke, not forward pressure like you do to recover from a
wing stall.
Typically, as most of us know, the tailplane provides a downward force. But
in certain aft loading situations, it can provide an upward force, like the
main wing does.
When it is providing a down force, and if the tail stalls, the result is a
sudden pitch down that can be violent and catch a normal pilot totally off
guard, as he's never experienced a tail stall before.
That usually occurs with full flaps in high wing Cessnas, due to the airflow
that someone previously described when slipping; hence, one more reason that
Cessna restricted flap deflection to 30 degrees on the 152 and later 172.
Jerry E.

[Tony Buttacav]

That was a problem with the Convair in icing, because of its narrow chord tail feathers, the 3 with its fat wide chord tail planes had no such issue.

[Roger Anderson]

Oooooh....you definitely were in the Mojave...way into it.   I preceded you by a few years  ('68 - '73) living out in that area.  I too burned holes in the sky all around there.  I was first based in Rosamond, then Willy J. Fox, with a 135 hp TriPacer, then a 7DC, and I flew a Benson gyrocopter off El Mirage on weekends.  I was living in Lancaster and working in Palmdale.  A 135 TriPacer, flying in the high desert in summer, with anyone in the backseat, gave new meaning to density altitude effect.  Fortunately, after you lifted off the ground, there were very few obstructions anywhere around needing to be missed.  roger

---

From: "Tony Buttacav" <aeron...@yahoo.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 7:17:04 AM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] FLAPS AND LIMITATIONS XXXX Cessna related###

Twenty nine palms ( stumps) !!!

On Jul 1, 2013, at 8:12, Roger Anderson <11...@comcast.net> wrote:

Tony.  When you were flying around the Mojave in the C150, at what airport were you based?  roger 

---

From: "Tony Buttacavoli" <aeron...@yahoo.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 6:14:21 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] FLAPS AND LIMITATIONS XXXX Cessna related###

my favorite 150 was a '61 razorback that i flew in England when I was a brand new PPL,my second favorite was a '77 that I flew all over the Mojave building X-country time for my commercial ticket,throttling back to idle and climbing in the thermals out of Borrego Springs,cutting across the Edwards restricted area enroute to Mojave,and God affirming spectacular sunrises on the way to Apple Valley for pancakes, are among my fond 150 memories.
--------------------------------------------
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[Tony Buttacav]

Amen, I flew a '56 172, a '67 Cherokee 140 , a Grumman Tiger, and the aforementioned 150 out of TWP,I also belonged to the North Island NAS, March AFB, and El Toro MCAS flying clubs , building time in everything from Super Decathalons to Piper Arrows, this was the '84 - '86 time frame, you can see where most of my money and spare time went:)

[Tom Holmes]

Been into 29 Palms many times while my baby boy, and his bride, and my only grand daughter, did two tours there.  Fond memories (and lots of stories) of popping up over the Sierras just south of Bakersfield, locating the mountain behind Apple Valley, and feeling pretty smirky tootling across that desert with all its aeronautical history.

Tom

From: Tony Buttacav <aeron...@yahoo.com>
To: "aer...@westmont.edu" <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] FLAPS AND LIMITATIONS XXXX Cessna related###

Twenty nine palms ( stumps) !!!

On Jul 1, 2013, at 8:12, Roger Anderson <11...@comcast.net> wrote:

Tony.  When you were flying around the Mojave in the C150, at what airport were you based?  roger 

From: "Tony Buttacavoli" <aeron...@yahoo.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 6:14:21 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] FLAPS AND LIMITATIONS XXXX Cessna related###

my favorite 150 was a '61 razorback that i flew in England when I was a brand new PPL,my second favorite was a '77 that I flew all over the Mojave building X-country time for my commercial ticket,throttling back to idle and climbing in the thermals out of Borrego Springs,cutting across the Edwards restricted area enroute to Mojave,and God affirming spectacular sunrises on the way to Apple Valley for pancakes, are among my fond 150 memories.
--------------------------------------------

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[Tony Buttacav]

Always flew with 5 gallons of water in the back, FBO rule, and a smart one. Loved my sunrise sorties, sheer extravagant , over the top beauty !!!

[CaptG...@aol.com]

Got into heavy icing near Lexington Ky one day with a Conviar 340--the anti-ice couldn't handle the wing anti ice especially between the engine and fuselage, even with the augmentor exhaust vanes closed--vertical control maintained by extending about 2-3 degree flaps to keep the tail planes in the game. That high aspect ratio wing with internal anti-ice could get critical in approach configurations and that is where you  found  alot of ice in the winter time. It was basicly a modified B-24 type wing.

 

Doug 

 

[Tony Buttacav]

Run back from the melted leading edge precip was always a concern, one bad, icy day while flying the procedure turn for the VOR approach into Anderson,Indiana ice ridges were building up  noticeably just behind wings heated area , I could only imagine how the tail was faring, fortunately  we descended into warmer air, a mini inversion , and shed it all. God's grace .