[f-AA] Fwd: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message

[John Rodkey]

Well, we're not going to get any help from Feinstein on this.

John

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <sen...@feinstein.senate.gov>
Date: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:46 AM
Subject: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message
To: rod...@westmont.edu

Dear Mr. Rodkey:   Thank you for contacting me to express your concerns about Experimental Aircraft Association's AirVenture 2013 in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.  Your correspondence is important to me, and I welcome this opportunity to respond.   I understand you are concerned about aviation safety and the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) costs associated with AirVenture 2013.  According to the FAA, the FAA and Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) recently signed a reimbursable agreement that stated EAA would cover roughly $450,000 in travel and per diem costs for the FAA controllers and operational personnel needed for the event.    Please know that the safety of our National Air Space is a top priority of me, and the FAA is responsible for the safety of our Nation's aerospace system.  I recognize you are concerned about the FAA's allocation of its funding.  To cover the costs and services it provides, the FAA relies on excise taxes on passengers, cargo, and fuel, and funding from the General Fund.  However, it is important to note that over the last three decades, general aviation has been responsible for roughly 11 percent of air traffic costs, while general aviation users pay around three percent of the taxes that contribute to the Trust Fund that funds the FAA.    Again, thank you for writing.  If you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at http://feinstein.senate.gov.  Best regards. Sincerely yours,   Dianne Feinstein          United States Senator

[Tom Holmes]

Or on much of anything else!

 

Tom

From: John Rodkey <rod...@westmont.edu>
To: Aeronca Aviators <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 3:47 PM
Subject: [f-AA] Fwd: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message

Well, we're not going to get any help from Feinstein on this.

John

---------- Forwarded message ----------From: <sen...@feinstein.senate.gov>Date: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:46 AMSubject: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your messageTo: rod...@westmont.edu

Dear Mr. Rodkey:   Thank you for contacting me to express your concerns about Experimental Aircraft Association's AirVenture 2013 in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.  Your correspondence is important to me, and I welcome this opportunity to respond.   I understand you are concerned about aviation safety and the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) costs associated with AirVenture 2013.  According to the FAA, the FAA and Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) recently signed a reimbursable agreement that stated EAA would cover roughly $450,000 in travel and per diem costs for the FAA controllers and operational personnel needed for the event.    Please know that the safety of our National Air Space is a top priority of me, and the FAA is responsible for the safety of our Nation's aerospace system.  I recognize you are concerned about the FAA's allocation of its funding.  To cover the costs and services it provides, the FAA relies on excise taxes on passengers, cargo, and fuel, and funding from the General Fund.  However, it is important to note that over the last three decades, general aviation has been responsible for roughly 11 percent of air traffic costs, while general aviation users pay around three percent of the taxes that contribute to the Trust Fund that funds the FAA.

Again, thank you for writing.  If you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at http://feinstein.senate.gov/.  Best regards.

Sincerely yours,   Dianne Feinstein          United States Senator

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[Sean P. McGrath]

What a waste...

I am glad we are reaching out but this administration is out of there minds. Sad. 

Sent from my iPhone

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Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

[Philip Schulert]

Doh so now we know Feinstein and McCain are on the same page

 

Phil

 

---

[Richard Murray]

She did express concern about continued safety in the National airspace system.

My representative and senators responded with a similar response.

We are too small of  a group within each constituency to attract their attention.

[Roger Anderson]

Or.....

Dear Mr. Rodkey:

"We value your input".

Sincerely yours,


  Dianne Feinstein
         United States Senator

---

From: "Tom Holmes" <thomasth...@sbcglobal.net>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 3:03:28 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Fwd: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your        message

[Rich Dugger]

This or anything else.

I love how they mischaracterise  what you wrote about and then twist it around.

Typical political jibberish and gobbledeegook.

 

And then they wonder why we hate them.

 

 

 

 

From: John Rodkey

Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 2:47 PM

To: Aeronca Aviators

[Richard Murray]

They live in a different world surrounded by smoke blowers seeking their favor and gratitude. 

[John Rodkey]

Well, here are my questions.  Is it true that GA is responsible for 11 percent of air traffic costs while contributing 3 percent of taxes?

How is that cost and tax burden measured?  Is that measuring number of ATC ops and fuel taxes?  Because that certainly is not an adequate measure of costs.

What amount of runway wear is attributable to GA vs commercial?  If you just look at the cost of the facilities that are required to service and provide security for commercial air traffic, and compare that to the cost to provide the services GA requires, this equation begins to look quite a bit different.  

Beyond the cost argument,  the FAA's purpose is to maintain safety, not to create revenue streams for the government by blackmailing organizations like the EAA because they have a complete monopoly on ATC services.  

Man, I get worked up about this.  But it is clear that talking to my 'representative' is worse than useless.

John

P.S.  I wonder where these talking points about the 11 and 3 percent originated.

[John Rodkey]

It looks like her talking points are coming from http://www.gao.gov/assets/100/94963.html

Which is the user fee initiative which was not put into law, but which continues to resurface its ugly head.

John

--
John (poobah) Rodkey - N9361E 11AC at Goleta

[Travis Gregory]

Or....

 

Dear Mr. Rodkey:

 

We value your taxes, but not your nosy input.

 

Sincerely yours,

D.F.

From: "Tom Holmes" <thomasth...@sbcglobal.net>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 3:03:28 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Fwd: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your        message

Or on much of anything else!

 

Tom

[Tom Holmes]

Since the voters won't do their job, the only salvation is term limits!!  ;-)  We have to find some way to cut the money strings.

Tom, who is working himself into a lather, again!! ;-)

From: Richard Murray <murra...@gmail.com>
To: "aer...@westmont.edu" <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Fwd: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message

They live in a different world surrounded by smoke blowers seeking their favor and gratitude. 

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Rich Dugger <richd...@gmail.com> wrote:

This or anything else.

I love how they mischaracterise  what you wrote about and then twist it around.

Typical political jibberish and gobbledeegook.

 

And then they wonder why we hate them.

 

 

 

 

From: John Rodkey

Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 2:47 PM

To: Aeronca Aviators

Subject: [f-AA] Fwd: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message

 

Well, we're not going to get any help from Feinstein on this.

 

John

---------- Forwarded message ----------From: <sen...@feinstein.senate.gov>Date: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:46 AMSubject: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your messageTo: rod...@westmont.edu

Dear Mr. Rodkey: Thank you for contacting me to express your concerns about Experimental Aircraft Association's AirVenture 2013 in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.  Your correspondence is important to me, and I welcome this opportunity to respond. I understand you are concerned about aviation safety and the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) costs associated with AirVenture 2013.  According to the FAA, the FAA and Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) recently signed a reimbursable agreement that stated EAA would cover roughly $450,000 in travel and per diem costs for the FAA controllers and operational personnel needed for the event. Please know that the safety of our National Air Space is a top priority of me, and the FAA is responsible for the safety of our Nation's aerospace system.  I recognize you are concerned about the FAA's allocation of its funding.  To cover the costs and services it provides, the FAA relies on excise taxes on passengers, cargo, and fuel, and funding from the General Fund.  However, it is important to note that over the last three decades, general aviation has been responsible for roughly 11 percent of air traffic costs, while general aviation users pay around three percent of the taxes that contribute to the Trust Fund that funds the FAA.

Again, thank you for writing.  If you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at http://feinstein.senate.gov/.  Best regards.

Sincerely yours,   Dianne Feinstein          United States Senator

 

_______________________________________________Aeronca mailing listAer...@westmont.eduhttp://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

_______________________________________________
Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

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[Richard Murray]

I just finished writing my Representative, both Senators, and Boehner expressing my outrage at the events going on in Syria and that before we spend a dime on their problem we solved our own defense spending problems. If they vote to save face because our President spoke with emotion and outrage before he considered all the implications there's no hope we will ever enjoy freedom again in this country.

[Travis Gregory]

A Texan by the name of Kinky Friedman once said: "It's a strange job being a politician, the longer you do the job the worse you get at it".

 

travis

From: Tom Holmes <thomasth...@sbcglobal.net>
To: "aer...@westmont.edu" <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Fwd: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message

Since the voters won't do their job, the only salvation is term limits!!  ;-)  We have to find some way to cut the money strings.

Tom, who is working himself into a lather, again!! ;-)

From: Richard Murray <murra...@gmail.com>
To: "aer...@westmont.edu" <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Fwd: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message

They live in a different world surrounded by smoke blowers seeking their favor and gratitude. 

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Rich Dugger <richd...@gmail.com> wrote:

This or anything else.

I love how they mischaracterise  what you wrote about and then twist it around.

Typical political jibberish and gobbledeegook.

 

And then they wonder why we hate them.

 

 

 

 

From: John Rodkey

Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 2:47 PM

To: Aeronca Aviators

Subject: [f-AA] Fwd: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message

 

Well, we're not going to get any help from Feinstein on this.

 

John

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: <sen...@feinstein.senate.gov> Date: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:46 AM Subject: U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message To: rod...@westmont.edu

Dear Mr. Rodkey: Thank you for contacting me to express your concerns about Experimental Aircraft Association's AirVenture 2013 in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.  Your correspondence is important to me, and I welcome this opportunity to respond. I understand you are concerned about aviation safety and the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) costs associated with AirVenture 2013.  According to the FAA, the FAA and Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) recently signed a reimbursable agreement that stated EAA would cover roughly $450,000 in travel and per diem costs for the FAA controllers and operational personnel needed for the event. Please know that the safety of our National Air Space is a top priority of me, and the FAA is responsible for the safety of our Nation's aerospace system.  I recognize you are concerned about the FAA's allocation of its funding.  To cover the costs and services it provides, the FAA relies on excise taxes on passengers, cargo, and fuel, and funding from the General Fund.  However, it is important to note that over the last three decades, general aviation has been responsible for roughly 11 percent of air traffic costs, while general aviation users pay around three percent of the taxes that contribute to the Trust Fund that funds the FAA. Again, thank you for writing.  If you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at http://feinstein.senate.gov/.  Best regards. Sincerely yours,   Dianne Feinstein          United States Senator

 

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Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

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[Tom Holmes]

John,

I know some of her staffers.  They're not beyond making the numbers up!

Tom

[craig debban]

I had lunch today with the airport bums and not one person was in favor of the Syria operation. Not one person of my non pilot friends are in favor. Who the hell do the D.C. hacks think they represent?
Lets just bomb Syria with MMO and peace will happen like magic.
Craig

---

From: Richard Murray <murra...@gmail.com>
To: "aer...@westmont.edu" <aer...@westmont.edu>; Tom Holmes <thomasth...@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 7:31 PM

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Term limits are a double edged sword.

While they may keep a poorly performing official from staying in office forever, they also do the opposite.

Our family has two politicians.  My daughter is a city councilman in our city, free of term limits.  In her first election, she came in second to the top vote getter out of a field of seven candidates, and only lost the number one spot by 47 votes.  She is now running for her second term.

Her husband, my son-in-law, is a state representative from our county, now in his second term.  He has an 8 year term limit facing him.

While I’m obviously biased, my son-in-law is the kind of guy we need to stay in office as long as he wants.  He works hard, is a graduate of the Fisher School of Business at Ohio State Univ. with a double major in economics and finance.  He could earn triple his state salary in the private world, but he’s a dedicated public servant ( also as member of the aviation caucus ).  Term limits will cause him to leave the House in 5 more years.

To me, every elected official has a term limit anyhow – it’s called the next election.  If he/she is doing poorly, don’t re-elect him/her.  How is really to blame for a poorly performing official who stays in office?  We, the voters are.

Jerry E.

John

Dear Mr. Rodkey:

Thank you for contacting me to express your concerns about Experimental Aircraft Association's AirVenture 2013 in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.  Your correspondence is important to me, and I welcome this opportunity to respond. I understand you are concerned about aviation safety and the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) costs associated with AirVenture 2013.  According to the FAA, the FAA and Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) recently signed a reimbursable agreement that stated EAA would cover roughly $450,000 in travel and per diem costs for the FAA controllers and operational personnel needed for the event. Please know that the safety of our National Air Space is a top priority of me, and the FAA is responsible for the safety of our Nation's aerospace system.  I recognize you are concerned about the FAA's allocation of its funding.  To cover the costs and services it provides, the FAA relies on excise taxes on passengers, cargo, and fuel, and funding from the General Fund.  However, it is important to note that over the last three decades, general aviation has been responsible for roughly 11 percent of air traffic costs, while general aviation users pay around three percent of the taxes that contribute to the Trust Fund that funds the FAA. Again, thank you for writing.  If you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at http://feinstein.senate.gov/.  Best regards.

Sincerely yours,   Dianne Feinstein          United States Senator

_______________________________________________ Aeronca mailing listAer...@westmont.eduhttp://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

_______________________________________________
Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

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_______________________________________________Aeronca mailing listAer...@westmont.eduhttp://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

[Richard Murray]

Jerry,

Your points are valid, however power corrupts and the longer a politician stays in the same job the more susceptible they are to making prejudiced decisions. Term limits work. Good politician, dedicated people like your son-in-law and daughter, move up the ladder filling a more important position. In you son-in-law's case perhaps State senator or US Representative. Our political system was never conceived to be a career post for any individual and what does it say of someone who doesn't want to do the best they can.

We the people do not make informed decisions at the pols. We are inundated with advertising targeted at belittling the opponent while asserting your candidate is akin to Mother Theresa. The double edged sword is worth the chance in my opinion because we get a new crop of fresh ideas.

Richard in OH who hates to get involved but wrote emails to his representative and senators anyway

PS Thank your daughter and son-in-law for having the courage and dedication to run and serve their constituents.

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Richard –

Politics is a tough business, for sure.  If, as a kid, you ever took a pack of gum from a store without paying for it, someone will dig it up.

It’s not for me, but the kids thrive on it.

20 years ago, I was offered a judgeship by governor’s appointment to fill a vacant seat.  It took me one second to decide to say No, and another few to figure out how to say it diplomatically.

There were lots of reasons, but the primary reason was that while I live in Delaware County, where the judgeship was, my office and law practice have always been in Franklin County, one county south of where I live.  Hence, I’m not really into the political circles in Delaware County.

So, my choice was to give up my practice, see my clients go hither and yon, and hope I keep the judge job in the next election.

The guy who did accept the appointment had just that happen to him – he lost the election a year later, and his practice never did truly recover.

Of course, the pay cut had a little to do with my decision, but with the generous state retirement, I could have lived with that.

Jerry E.

[Richard Murray]

I think you made a good decision. Judgeships in our our county last for life or until they are  mandated out at 70. We have been fortunate to have some really fine individuals serve our judicial system locally.

I too nearly jumped into politics running for school board. After I had got the petitions signed and filed someone clued me in the rather large amount of money I received for computers each year would have to be spent with another company if I were elected. I ran the quietest campaign on record and fortunately lost.

I really admire people who are willing to offer themselves as a candidate for office. It costs money and time for even the simplest of campaigns. It gives we voters a choice and that is important.

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Richard –

The age 70 limit is a joke today.  Back when it became law, 70 was old.  But today, I think it ought to be 80.

The voters overwhelmingly turned done that change last election, and I can’t figure out hy, especially with some many baby boomer voters getting older.

Jerry

[Tom Holmes]

Jerry,

Most of the leg work of public service is done by permanent employees and aides, not the elected folks.  Most, if not all, of the thinking about issues is done by lobbyists.  (BTDT) Not sure what we gain from having "professional"politicians, but our loss is very clear.  The "people" have close to zero say as to what they do for us, and to us.

 

I'll be the first to admit that the voters do have the ability to remove the bad ones, but they don't do it, and that is another entire discussion!  ;-)  We are approaching the tipping point where those who are funded by the government are going to outnumber those who are paying taxes.  We desperately need to break the link between the elected and the money spigot.

 

Tom, a little to the right of Attila the Hun!!  ;-)

 

From: Jerry Eichenberger <jEiche...@ehlawyers.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu; 'Travis Gregory' <nc4...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Term Limits

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[Jerry Eichenberger]

Tom –

So, since the voters aren’t smart, don’t get rid of the bad ones, we just throw the baby out with the bath water, huh?

Jerry E.

 

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Holmes

Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 1:30 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu

[j...@joea.com]

Yes we do throw them out with the bath water Jerry. The "low information"' voters we have
now in America are voting for who gives them the most money and benefits, not who we
need to save this great country or a leader.

Most of us have enough of this "getting elected once then staying in office until I die" sort of
crap that our current crop of legislators on both sides have been doing to us.

Sorry but my cat, or for that matter a fencepost, could do a better job of running the country
over what they have been doing the last 20-30 years. Most of them are corrupt and doing
nothing but lining their pockets with OUR tax $$$.

You may like the current situation but IMHO you are in the minority here...Both sides have
been and still are corrupt, and frankly its time for term limits, a total re-evaulation of the
legislators pay, benefits and retirement and sorry I know this is going to rub you the wrong
way but no more lawyers in politics. They keep making new laws that for the most part do
nothing but benefit lawyers and cost our country and its citizens our future.

Joe A

On 4 Sep 2013 at 13:50, Jerry Eichenberger wrote:

From: "Jerry Eichenberger" <jEiche...@ehlawyers.com>
To: <aer...@westmont.edu>, "'Tom Holmes'" <thomasth...@sbcglobal.net>
Date sent: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 13:50:39 -0400
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

Send reply to: aer...@westmont.edu
<mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
<mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=subscribe>

> Tom -

> To me, every elected official has a term limit anyhow - it's called the next

[Roger Anderson]

Hey Joe.  What's your mailing address??  roger

---

From: j...@joea.com
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 8:46:08 PM

[Jerry Eichenberger]

What is corrupt? I know of none currently in office. A few like Duke Cunningham are in jail.
Jerry

Sent from my iPhone

[j...@joea.com]

I feel sorry for you Jerry and will keep you in my prayers...

If you cannot see the corruption going on in our local, state and federal govts, then you
really need help...

Joe A

Ps, from the several private emails I have received after my post, everyone else can see it
as plainly as the nose on their faces.

On 4 Sep 2013 at 22:11, Jerry Eichenberger wrote:

Copies to: "aer...@westmont.edu" <aer...@westmont.edu>
From: Jerry Eichenberger <jeiche...@ehlawyers.com>
Date sent: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 22:11:52 -0400
To: "aer...@westmont.edu" <aer...@westmont.edu>

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Seriously, what is your concept of corruption? I get sick of people who say lawyers are crooked. In almost 40 years I've never seen a dime offered to sandbag a client. Sure we fight hard for our client. If I do and win, I guess I'm crooked in the eyes of the loser.

Sent from my iPhone

[Harvey Brock]

Does this qualify as "corruption"? Or maybe this is just crooked.
 
UNIONTOWN, Pa. —A Fayette County attorney is facing five criminal charges after police say he delivered heroin, Xanax and Suboxone to one of his clients who was in a holding cell.

Brian Salisbury, 34 of Newell, is facing four misdemeanors and one felony charge. Uniontown police said Salisbury's client, Aaron Yauger, was being held in a cell at the Fayette County booking center when Yauger called Salisbury and asked him to deliver drugs. Yauger told police he and Salisbury had an agreement where Salisbury would bring him drugs in jail if he was ever arrested to prevent him from getting "dope sick."

Within one hour of the call, police said Salisbury brought Yauger heroin, Xanax and Suboxone. Investigators said the whole exchange was caught on surveillance cameras.


Read more: http://www.wtae.com/news/local/fayette-county-attorney-charged-with-delivering-drugs-to-jailed-client/-/9681086/21183064/-/o20avn/-/index.html#ixzz2dzTineaU
 
Maybe this one is more inline with the question.
  ,,,..Support is growing for imprisoned attorney Lynne Stewart to be released early from prison due to her worsening health. Stewart’s prison warden has recommended to the Justice Department that she be released to the Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York City. The 73-year-old imprisoned grandmother is fighting stage IV cancer that has metastasized, spreading to her lymph nodes, shoulder, bones and lungs. Stewart is serving a 10-year sentence in a federal prison near Fort Worth, Texas. In 2005, she was found guilty of distributing press releases on behalf of her jailed client, Egyptian cleric Omar Abdel-Rahman, also known as the "Blind Sheikh," who is now serving a life sentence for conspiring to blow up New York City landmarks in 1995.
 
I don't know much, but this sounds like corruption,,,,
,,,,,
A judge serving as referee on a Florida Bar ethics complaint recommended the permanent disbarment of jailed Lake Worth real estate attorney Timothy McCabe, who was accused of stealing up to $8 million from clients.

McCabe, who turned fugitive for 11 weeks, also would have to pay the costs of The Bar's investigation, should the Florida Supreme Court agree with the recommendations.

McCabe, 55, disappeared after he allegedly embezzled client funds from his firm's trust accounts, but Broward Circuit Judge Lynn Rosenthal's recommendation was a response to a Bar complaint that preceded those actions.

The Bar alleged McCabe committed a fraud on the court when he filed a quiet title action on his own home in foreclosure and failed to bring the pre-existing foreclosure suit to the attention of the court hearing the title action.


Read more: http://www.dailybusinessreview.com/PubArticleDBR.jsp?id=1202612653392&Permanent_Disbarment_Urged_For_Jailed_Attorney_Timothy_McCabe#ixzz2dzVgfV7X
 
 
  Wasn't there some scandal a few years ago between some lawyers? Think there was something about Bill & Hilary Clinton and a couple named McDougal. Something named Whitewater?

[Cy Galley]

How about one Jessie Jackson Jr.???

[John Rodkey]

Thanks, everyone, for keeping this discussion cordial. 

Perhaps we should wind it down, recognizing our limited ability to convince others of our viewpoints. 

I personally am glad to be able to hear the thoughts of those on the list, even where they diverge significantly. Thanks for being thoughtfully articulate, everyone, and avoiding name calling, which I am sure is tempting at times. 

John

[Louis and Sabrina]

John, I usually try to avoid political discussions on this forum, but I’ll volunteer that I’m very glad there are no term limits for your position here!....Louis

 

From: John Rodkey

Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 9:18 PM

To: aer...@westmont.edu

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

Thanks, everyone, for keeping this discussion cordial. 

Perhaps we should wind it down, recognizing our limited ability to convince others of our viewpoints.

 

I personally am glad to be able to hear the thoughts of those on the list, even where they diverge significantly. Thanks for being thoughtfully articulate, everyone, and avoiding name calling, which I am sure is tempting at times.

 

John

 

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Not corrupt as the term is defined. Crooked and stupid and criminal; yes. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Those who vote for the likes of Jackson deserve what they got. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Richard Murray]

Exactly. Further this crooked stupid behavior is not borne but one profession or another. (see previous discussions about pilot training in Korea)

[Tom Holmes]

John,

I will admit that I'm usually in the middle of any political discussion, and I want to echo Louis' comment.  I'm also glad that there are no term limits on your position here!  ;-)

Tom

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Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

[Thomas DeWinter]

I don't think the politician has to get caught and go to jail to be corrupt.

How is it that these politicians who are only moderately wealthy when they first get to congress in a few short years seem to become fabulously wealthy?  When their salary and other income does not add up?  Where the heck are they getting this wealth from?  I suppose they must have won the lottery.  Yeah right!

Corruption:  How about all the "laws" and special treatment of corporations and other special interests groups. You know the same groups that just happen to fill the politicians campaign coffers.  Or are we supposed to believe that these perks are not corruption and little more than bribery but instead they are just coincidences.  I would think that bribery would count towards the definition of corruption.  At least in my book!

Coincidences...Yeah right!  And this is not a left or right issue.  This is a right or wrong issue.

We all know the Federal reserve (private owned bank which controls our money) has been printing money out of thin air.  Yet the national debt "clock" has been at a complete stop for 109 days and counting. How can the FED be printing something like $30 Billion A MONTH out of thin air, but our debt not be going up?  And don't tell me that it is the absolutely paltry cut caused by the so called "sequestration" that is saving the amount of money to equal the debt increase.  That is total non sense.  This is nothing more than FRAUD that is being allowed to be perpetrated by the entire Executive and Legislative branches.  And if I'm not mistaken, FRAUD is illegal and I would argue is a form of or defined in my book as Corruption.

When it comes to campaign money, I believe that NO ENTITY other than a living breathing US citizen individual who can legally go into a voting booth and cast a ballot in the election should be allowed and be legal to give money to a politician.  No Unions, no NRA, no environmental groups, no corporations etc.  None of those entities can cast a ballot. Yet they and all the other like them we all know "buy" our politicians. And in those entities getting their way with legislation and special cozy deals usually results in the average citizen to get harmed or loose freedoms or cost us money or higher taxes etc etc.  I further believe that in addition, the individuals after a certain donation limit set by law, must also provide a biography of themselves which is posted onto the politicians campaign website.  So that anyone can do a search and determine who are the big money donors and what is their bias. The people and the media can go in and see that a certain politician is getting huge donations from certain individuals, they can study why these people may be supporting the particular politician and thus determine for themselves if the politician is going to be beholden to those individuals.  It further would or could bring the exposure of the media on those individuals. Furthermore the FEC should be monitoring that large donors are not just a "front" for and laundering money of a corporation or other entity which is not able to donate to a campaign. And if caught being a straw man that they if found guilty it is a felony and go to jail for a significant amount of time and lose their right to vote forever!  In this way at the very least it is relatively transparent who the politician may be being "bought off" by and are able to make their own determination if they want to vote for the person or not.  Maybe then some honest average citizens would then start to draw votes away from these career politicians who are in bed with the special interests groups.

At least this way it takes some of the money out of the system that I believe is controlling the politicians. So that the politicians are not actually representing the people anymore.  Instead they are representing the corporations or other special interest groups and a few very wealthy individuals.  They represent the minority of entities that are not even people.

We need our elected representatives to be representing US.  "We the people".  Not Shell oil,drug companies, Monsanto, or the Sierra Club or the AFL/CIO or UAW etc.

As far as term limits. Why not have a law that limits two consecutive terms.  That is they can be re-elected again in the future as long as they sit out at least one term between the limit.  If those politicians are so dang good, the people will gladly re-elect them in 2 years for the House and 6 years in the Senate.  So it is not a life long prohibition term limit.  Just give a chance to break the chain of career politicians.

Right now the seniority gains the power as the seniority allows people to "earn" their way to more and more powerful committee chair and committee membership.  So again the current structure incentivises a person to stay as long as possible. Because human nature is human nature. And humans love or are always susceptible to the acquisition of power.  These committee make up should be by lottery, rather than seniority and picked by the political party of the party in the majority. 

These to me seem like "reasonable" campaign finance reform legislation.  Not a complete solution but at least a step or two in the right direction.  Nobody is making the claim that we can solve all the problems in one fell swoop. But can we not at least start taking baby steps in the correct direction?

The problem is that no power hungry career politician is going to vote for legislation that limits their ability to gain power and feather their nest.  Therefore it will almost likely have to be done with constitutional amendments that is called for by the states that is allowed under Article V of the Constitution.  In essence a modern day constitutional convention.  This should be and was written into the constitution as a method of last resort if the congress ever got so out of control and out of touch with the people and the states that they wrote into the constitution the ability for the states and the people to bypass congress and have the ability to amend the constitution.  Some may argue we have not reached that point of last resort yet. While others will equally argue we have long since already passed this point.

A study of history over and over again will show that we are on the EXACT path towards the loss of freedom and into tyranny.  Not a single time throughout world history has this cycle not occurred.  In era's of the past they never had the ability to view and learn from that history and thus be in a position to stop that cycle.  We today however have this knowledge and ability. yet we continue and even are accelerating towards the destruction of all that we have come to know and love about this great country.

Sir Edmund Burke said:  "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing"

If we are good men (and women). We have to ask ourselves;  Am I going to stand by and go nothing, or am I going to do something more than complain?

If not us, Who?  If not now, When?

I do not want to be sitting around a campfire answering my grandchild what it was like to live under freedom, and why I didn't do anything to prevent the loss of that freedom.  How about you?

---

From: Cy Galley <cga...@mchsi.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:15 AM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

Corruption:

[Richard Murray]

back to the point....

as Will Rogers said 'Politicians and babies should be changed often for the same reason'

(or something like that)

[Dan Vandermeer]

On Sep 5, 2013, at 3:50 PM, Thomas DeWinter <toms...@yahoo.com> wrote:  A thoughtful and impassioned post which I trimmed. 

While I generally agree with much of your post I have comments:

1. There are several "national debt clocks" still running on web sites. One is the original- the "Durst Clock" showing the debt increasing.  It is expected that the current debt ceiling set by Congress will be reached at about the end of the federal fiscal year, this coming September 30.  It's likely that this will be a non-event and we will muddle through as we have been since the Great Depression. 

2. The Supreme Court declared in the Citizens United decision that US corporations are not essentially any different from the Constitutional definition of people and may make contributions to federal candidates. A strange decision to me. But it didn't change the outcome of the 2012 national elections as much as State legislators successful gerrymandering House seats since the 2020 national census. 

3. The US Presidency is term limited. Senators are elected for 6 year terms. Congressmen for 2 year terms. Federal judgeships are lifetime appointments. One often hears the argument that changing this system to  somehow limit the length of service of Members of Congress would make them wiser, more responsive, less avaricious, etc. I don't believe so because of the many  systemic problems you and others have noted in recent posts and many other reasons. 

4. It seems that each aging generation in every nation or society tends to believe that things have gotten worse over their lifetime. And indeed there is a historical trend of great civilizations and nations to eventually fail. Usually from the same kinds of political mistakes, from natural disasters, from wars, disease, famine, or some combination of such events. Tragic as this may be, happily the human condition continues to improve.  And that fact alone gives this OF quite a lot of comfort and spares me the need for mind altering substances other than a cold beverage. 

Dan v

[colie pitts]

excellent Thomas.

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Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

--
colie pitts

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Tom –

 

I know my Congressman, Pat Tiberi, very well.  He wasn’t wealthy when he took office many years ago, nor is he now.  Still lives in the same house ( when he is in Ohio, which isn’t often, to the chagrin of  his wife and kids ) he did before taking office.

Who are all of these millionaire politicians who either weren’t wealthy before taking office, or in the case of a notable former Speaker of the House, married wealth.

As my father once said, “ You can marry more money in 20 minutes than you can make in a lifetime”.

Thankfully, I didn’t obey.

Jerry E.

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Tom –

Now for a serious discussion.  I’ve been in the political world all of my adult life. 

First, it takes at least 4 years for a new Congressman to learn the ropes of how gov’t works and how you get things done in Washington.  Effective legislators build alliances and rapport with colleagues on both sides of the aisle – it’s called learning to become a statesman.

You don’t do that quickly – it takes a long time to earn the trust and respect of your fellow representatives, especially those of the other party.

I have read a lot of emotion, stereotypes, and ignorant platitudes in this thread.  I accuse no particular person of this.

Before anyone brushes all folks of any profession with the same broad brush, please articulate real and specific facts behind any characterization.

Jerry E.

 

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of colie pitts

Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 6:03 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu; Thomas DeWinter

[CaptG...@aol.com]

Read the book "This Town" it is all about politics, K Street, money .and social pecking order.The rest of the country is oblivious.  End of comment. Doug

[Dale P. Jewett]

Will Rogers also said: “Once a man holds public office, he is absolutely no good for honest work”. He also said “I’m not a member of any organized party. I’m a democrat.”

 

I have a book entitled: The Life and Writings of Will Rogers, by Joseph H. Carter. Being originally from Bartlesville, OK, I was fortunate enough to see Will Rogers on stage in Bartlesville, the year he and Wiley Post were killed in Alaska. He just stood on the stage, twirled his rope and talked. My Dad and I also went out to the Phillips airport and saw Wiley Post and his airplane in one of the hangers. Will Rogers was one of the most respected men in the nation at that time. He was truly a GREAT American!!!!

 

Dale Jewett

 

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Murray

Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:27 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu; Thomas DeWinter

[Jerry Jackson]

I agree.

 

Jerry Jackson

 

____________

 

From: Thomas DeWinter

Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 2:50 PM

To: aer...@westmont.edu

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

I don't think the politician has to get caught and go to jail to be corrupt.

 

SNIP

[CaptG...@aol.com]

Jerry might as well let it die--you can't win unless you just happened to have the right case in court. We have a  civil case in our area--basically rigging a school board election--guess who the culprits are. Yep one will win and one will lose but both will make money. With that I will let the discussion die.  Doug

 

 

In a message dated 9/5/2013 6:12:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jEiche...@ehlawyers.com writes:

Tom –

 

I know my Congressman, Pat Tiberi, very well.  He wasn’t wealthy when he took office many years ago, nor is he now.  Still lives in the same house ( when he is in Ohio, which isn’t often, to the chagrin of  his wife and kids ) he did before taking office.

Who are all of these millionaire politicians who either weren’t wealthy before taking office, or in the case of a notable former Speaker of the House, married wealth.

As my father once said, “ You can marry more money in 20 minutes than you can make in a lifetime”.

Thankfully, I didn’t obey.

Jerry E.

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of colie pitts

Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 6:03 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu; Thomas DeWinter

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

excellent Thomas.

 

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Thomas DeWinter <toms...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I don't think the politician has to get caught and go to jail to be corrupt.

How is it that these politicians who are only moderately wealthy when they first get to congress in a few short years seem to become fabulously wealthy?  When their salary and other income does not add up?  Where the heck are they getting this wealth from?  I suppose they must have won the lottery.  Yeah right!

Corruption:  How about all the "laws" and special treatment of corporations and other special interests groups. You know the same groups that just happen to fill the politicians campaign coffers.  Or are we supposed to believe that these perks are not corruption and little more than bribery but instead they are just coincidences.  I would think that bribery would count towards the definition of corruption.  At least in my book!

Coincidences...Yeah right!  And this is not a left or right issue.  This is a right or wrong issue.

We all know the Federal reserve (private owned bank which controls our money) has been printing money out of thin air.  Yet the national debt "clock" has been at a complete stop for 109 days and counting. How can the FED be printing something like $30 Billion A MONTH out of thin air, but our debt not be going up?  And don't tell me that it is the absolutely paltry cut caused by the so called "sequestration" that is saving the amount of money to equal the debt increase.  That is total non sense.  This is nothing more than FRAUD that is being allowed to be perpetrated by the entire Executive and Legislative branches.  And if I'm not mistaken, FRAUD is illegal and I would argue is a form of or defined in my book as Corruption.

When it comes to campaign money, I believe that NO ENTITY other than a living breathing US citizen individual who can legally go into a voting booth and cast a ballot in the election should be allowed and be legal to give money to a politician.  No Unions, no NRA, no environmental groups, no corporations etc.  None of those entities can cast a ballot. Yet they and all the other like them we all know "buy" our politicians. And in those entities getting their way with legislation and special cozy deals usually results in the average citizen to get harmed or loose freedoms or cost us money or higher taxes etc etc.  I further believe that in addition, the individuals after a certain donation limit set by law, must also provide a biography of themselves which is posted onto the politicians campaign website.  So that anyone can do a search and determine who are the big money donors and what is their bias. The people and the media can go in and see that a certain politician is getting huge donations from certain individuals, they can study why these people may be supporting the particular politician and thus determine for themselves if the politician is going to be beholden to those individuals.  It further would or could bring the exposure of the media on those individuals. Furthermore the FEC should be monitoring that large donors are not just a "front" for and laundering money of a corporation or other entity which is not able to donate to a campaign. And if caught being a straw man that they if found guilty it is a felony and go to jail for a significant amount of time and lose their right to vote forever!  In this way at the very least it is relatively transparent who the politician may be being "bought off" by and are able to make their own determination if they want to vote for the person or not.  Maybe then some honest average citizens would then start to draw votes away from these career politicians who are in bed with the special interests groups.

At least this way it takes some of the money out of the system that I believe is controlling the politicians. So that the politicians are not actually representing the people anymore.  Instead they are representing the corporations or other special interest groups and a few very wealthy individuals.  They represent the minority of entities that are not even people.

We need our elected representatives to be representing US.  "We the people".  Not Shell oil,drug companies, Monsanto, or the Sierra Club or the AFL/CIO or UAW etc.

As far as term limits. Why not have a law that limits two consecutive terms.  That is they can be re-elected again in the future as long as they sit out at least one term between the limit.  If those politicians are so dang good, the people will gladly re-elect them in 2 years for the House and 6 years in the Senate.  So it is not a life long prohibition term limit.  Just give a chance to break the chain of career politicians.

Right now the seniority gains the power as the seniority allows people to "earn" their way to more and more powerful committee chair and committee membership.  So again the current structure incentivises a person to stay as long as possible. Because human nature is human nature. And humans love or are always susceptible to the acquisition of power.  These committee make up should be by lottery, rather than seniority and picked by the political party of the party in the majority. 

These to me seem like "reasonable" campaign finance reform legislation.  Not a complete solution but at least a step or two in the right direction.  Nobody is making the claim that we can solve all the problems in one fell swoop. But can we not at least start taking baby steps in the correct direction?

The problem is that no power hungry career politician is going to vote for legislation that limits their ability to gain power and feather their nest.  Therefore it will almost likely have to be done with constitutional amendments that is called for by the states that is allowed under Article V of the Constitution.  In essence a modern day constitutional convention.  This should be and was written into the constitution as a method of last resort if the congress ever got so out of control and out of touch with the people and the states that they wrote into the constitution the ability for the states and the people to bypass congress and have the ability to amend the constitution.  Some may argue we have not reached that point of last resort yet. While others will equally argue we have long since already passed this point.

A study of history over and over again will show that we are on the EXACT path towards the loss of freedom and into tyranny.  Not a single time throughout world history has this cycle not occurred.  In era's of the past they never had the ability to view and learn from that history and thus be in a position to stop that cycle.  We today however have this knowledge and ability. yet we continue and even are accelerating towards the destruction of all that we have come to know and love about this great country.

Sir Edmund Burke said:  "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing"

If we are good men (and women). We have to ask ourselves;  Am I going to stand by and go nothing, or am I going to do something more than complain?

If not us, Who?  If not now, When?

I do not want to be sitting around a campfire answering my grandchild what it was like to live under freedom, and why I didn't do anything to prevent the loss of that freedom.  How about you?

 

 

---

From: Cy Galley <cga...@mchsi.com>

To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:15 AM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

Corruption:

 

How about one Jessie Jackson Jr.???

 

 

_______________________________________________
Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

 

--
colie pitts

[Cy Galley]

How about the 5, count them five, former governors of Illinois that have been sent to prison for their activities?

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Cy –

You said it all – Illinois.

[Cy Galley]

How about the mayor of Detroit?

[Richard Murray]

I'll have a beverage now too.....:)

Well stated Dan this Bud's for you

[j...@joea.com]

Not to mention the mayor of San Diego.

Jerry, you are digging the hole deeper and deeper with every post. You want to keep digging
be my guest but this is a losing argument... dancing around trying to avoid the fact that this
is a lost cause is not helping one bit...

Joe A

Send reply to: aer...@westmont.edu
<mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
<mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=subscribe>

> Tom -

[Jerry Eichenberger]

That guy looked like a thug from 100 feet away.  Again, the voters there got what they deserved for electing him in the first place.

Put the blame where it belongs – on stupid people who cast stupid votes.

We have to be responsible and when we are not, the blame is ours; not the system’s.

[Tom Holmes]

Joe,

I'm getting a chuckle out of it!!  ;-)

Tom

[Rich Dugger]

The inmates are running the asylum.

[Cy Galley]

Ohio State Representative W. Carlton Weddington (D) was convicted on bribery charges and sentenced to three years in prison in June 2012

[Richard Jeffryes]

What John said. Yesterday.

 

Richard in Creswell, who agrees with Jerry

[Jerry Eichenberger]

OK, I’m done.  Let the rookies run the country.  I know, you will all say they can’t do any worse.

[Cy Galley]

Ohio Governor Bob Taft (R-OH) pleaded no contest and was convicted on four misdemeanor ethics violations. He was fined $4000 and ordered to apologize to the people of Ohio. (2005)

[Jerry Eichenberger]

No Big deal.  So what? 

[j...@joea.com]

Finally you posted something that I can agree with!

We have had rookies running the country the last 5 years and see how well its been going.
Economy... almost none, unemployment.... in the dumps, foreign affairs.... no policy, they
go from forest fire to forest fire, putting them out as they pop up, and they do not have a
clue what they are doing on any one of them.

They will have their day in court... eventually "Fast and Furious" as well as "Bengazi" will
come back to haunt them...

Joe A

On 5 Sep 2013 at 21:47, Jerry Eichenberger wrote:

From: "Jerry Eichenberger" <jEiche...@ehlawyers.com>

[Roger Anderson]

I could have sworn I saw an earlier post from John politely saying "enough".  Let's see....what did I do with that post?????    

---

[CaptG...@aol.com]

How abut the ex mayor of Atlanta?

 

In a message dated 9/5/2013 8:48:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cga...@mchsi.com writes:

How about the mayor of Detroit?

 

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Jerry Eichenberger
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 7:36 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

Cy –

You said it all – Illinois.

 

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Cy Galley
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:16 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

How about the 5, count them five, former governors of Illinois that have been sent to prison for their activities?

 

From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Jerry Eichenberger
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 5:11 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

Tom –

From: Cy Galley <cga...@mchsi.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

Corruption:

 

How about one Jessie Jackson Jr.???

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

 

--
colie pitts

[j...@joea.com]

Finally you posted something that I can agree with!

We have had rookies running the country the last 5 years and see how well its been going.
Economy... almost none, unemployment.... in the dumps, foreign affairs.... no policy, they
go from forest fire to forest fire, putting them out as they pop up, and they do not have a
clue what they are doing on any one of them.

They will have their day in court... eventually "Fast and Furious" as well as "Bengazi" will
come back to haunt them...

Joe A

On 5 Sep 2013 at 21:47, Jerry Eichenberger wrote:

From: "Jerry Eichenberger" <jEiche...@ehlawyers.com>
To: <aer...@westmont.edu>
Date sent: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 21:47:54 -0400

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

Send reply to: aer...@westmont.edu
<mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
<mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=subscribe>

> OK, I'm done. Let the rookies run the country. I know, you will all say they
> can't do any worse.

> From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf
> Of Cy Galley

> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:15 PM
> To: aer...@westmont.edu; 'Tom Holmes'

> Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

> Ohio State Representative W. Carlton Weddington (D) was convicted on bribery charges
> and sentenced to three years in prison in June 2012

> From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf

> Of Tom Holmes
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:08 PM

> To: aer...@westmont.edu
> Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits
>

> Joe,
> I'm getting a chuckle out of it!! ;-)
> Tom
> From: "j...@joea.com" <j...@joea.com>

> To: aer...@westmont.edu
> Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 9:01 PM

> Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits
>

> Not to mention the mayor of San Diego.
>
> Jerry, you are digging the hole deeper and deeper with every post. You want to keep
> digging
> be my guest but this is a losing argument... dancing around trying to avoid the fact that
> this
> is a lost cause is not helping one bit...
>
> Joe A
>
> On 5 Sep 2013 at 19:48, Cy Galley wrote:
>

> From: "Cy Galley" <cga...@mchsi.com>
> To: <aer...@westmont.edu >

> Date sent: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 19:48:38 -0500

> Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

> Send reply to: aer...@westmont.edu
> <mailto: aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
> <mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=subscribe>
>

> > How about the mayor of Detroit?
>
> > From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On
> Behalf
> > Of Jerry Eichenberger
> > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 7:36 PM
> > To: aer...@westmont.edu
> > Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

> > Cy -
> > You said it all - Illinois.
> > From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On
> Behalf
> > Of Cy Galley
> > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:16 PM
> > To: aer...@westmont.edu
> > Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits
> > How about the 5, count them five, former governors of Illinois that have been sent to
> prison for
> > their activities?
> > From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Jerry Eichenberger
> > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 5:11 PM
> > To: aer...@westmont.edu
> > Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

> > Tom -

[Harvey Brock]

I got an idea, let's talk about airplanes a while.
 

---

Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 02:01:25 +0000
From: 11...@comcast.net

To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

I could have sworn I saw an earlier post from John politely saying "enough".  Let's see....what did I do with that post?????    

---

[Jerry Eichenberger]

That's what term limits will get you. Kinda like IBM having a whole board
of directors with a max of 8 years business experience.

[Dan Wagner]

Come on Guys enough of the term limits. Lets get back to Aeroncas. 

Dan Wagner

[Mark Peterson]

yep, yada, yada, yada....back to our mission of Aeroncas fellows.

---

From: dcwag...@hotmail.com
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 22:25:50 -0400

[j...@joea.com]

When you guys can convince the lawyer in the group to stop the discussion, then we might
get on with talking about Aeronca's.

No matter how much proof numerous people presents, he does not realize that his argument
has been lost and keeps trying to dig the hole deeper...

Joe A

On 5 Sep 2013 at 19:33, Mark Peterson wrote:

From: Mark Peterson <mrpet...@msn.com>
To: The Fearless Aeronca Aviators <aer...@westmont.edu>
Date sent: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 19:33:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits
Send reply to: aer...@westmont.edu
<mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
<mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=subscribe>

>

> yep, yada, yada, yada....back to our mission of Aeroncas fellows.
>
>

[Cy Galley]

It is not only Illinois… Ohio Attorney General Marc Dann (D-OH) resigns from the post of Attorney General because of a sex scandal and campaign finance irregularities. He resigned on May 14, 2008.

 

Bob Ney (R-OH) pleaded guilty to conspiracy and making false statements as a result of his receiving trips from Abramoff in exchange for legislative favors. Ney received 30 months in prison.

 

• Jim Traficant (D-OH) found guilty on 10 felony counts of financial corruption, he was sentenced to 8 years in prison and expelled from the House (2002)^[130]
• Buzz Lukens (R-OH) convicted of bribery and conspiracy (1992)
• Mary Rose Oakar (D-OH) was charged with seven felonies, but pleaded guilty only to a misdemeanor campaign finance charge not related to the House Bank (1992)
• Donald E. "Buz" Lukens (R-OH), Convicted of two counts of bribery and conspiracy. (1996)

• Warren G. Harding (R-OH) President 1921–1923. His administration was marred by scandals stemming from men in his administration who followed him from Ohio who came to be known as the Ohio Gang.^[303] They include;

1. Albert Fall. Secretary of the Interior who was bribed by Harry F. Sinclair for control of the Teapot Dome federal oil reserves in Wyoming. He was the first U.S. cabinet member to ever be convicted; he served two years in prison. (1922)^[304]
2. Edwin C. Denby, Secretary of the Navy: resigned for his part in the Teapot Dome oil reserve scandal.^[305]
3. Harry M. Daugherty, Attorney General: resigned on March 28, 1924, because of an investigation about a bootlegging kickback scheme by his chief aide Jess Smith. Found not guilty. (1924)^[306]
4. Jess Smith aide to Attorney General Daugherty who destroyed incriminating papers and then committed suicide.^[306]
5. Charles R. Forbes appointed by Harding as the first director of the new Bureau of Veterans Affairs. After constructing and modernizing VA hospitals, he was convicted of bribery and corruption and sentenced to two years in jail.^[307]
6. Charles Cramer Forbes' general counsel, committed suicide. (1923)^[308]
7. Thomas W. Miller, Head of the Office of Alien Property: convicted of fraud by selling valuable German patents seized after World War I for far below market price as well as bribery. Served 18 months

• Warren G. Harding (R-OH) President 1921–1923. His administration was marred by scandals stemming from men in his administration who followed him from Ohio who came to be known as the Ohio Gang.^[303] They include;

1. Albert Fall. Secretary of the Interior who was bribed by Harry F. Sinclair for control of the Teapot Dome federal oil reserves in Wyoming. He was the first U.S. cabinet member to ever be convicted; he served two years in prison. (1922)^[304]
2. Edwin C. Denby, Secretary of the Navy: resigned for his part in the Teapot Dome oil reserve scandal.^[305]
3. Harry M. Daugherty, Attorney General: resigned on March 28, 1924, because of an investigation about a bootlegging kickback scheme by his chief aide Jess Smith. Found not guilty. (1924)^[306]
4. Jess Smith aide to Attorney General Daugherty who destroyed incriminating papers and then committed suicide.^[306]
5. Charles R. Forbes appointed by Harding as the first director of the new Bureau of Veterans Affairs. After constructing and modernizing VA hospitals, he was convicted of bribery and corruption and sentenced to two years in jail.^[307]
6. Charles Cramer Forbes' general counsel, committed suicide. (1923)^[308]
7. Thomas W. Miller, Head of the Office of Alien Property: convicted of fraud by selling valuable German patents seized after World War I for far below market price as well as bribery. Served 18 months

•  

 

 

I take exception to your No fraud, Corruption or malfeasance of elected officials. On term limits I am ambivalent.

[Ian Harvie]

Couldn't agree more, and its no different in Australia.

Ian (The elections are tomorrow!)

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[Harvey Brock]

  I agree!
     I threw in my 2 cents worth a couple days ago and would like go back to learning from the Aeronca Gurus.

[Thomas DeWinter]

Pelosi for one.  Yes she was rich to start. But she also has written and supported MANY laws that specifically help her husbands business over and over.

There are also people throughout history that their wealth accumulation doesn't match their congressional salary/pension or outside income. 

And we have people like Charlie rangle who has the balls to sit on, be chariman of the tax committee that writes the tax laws and then hides money overseas and doesn't pay his own taxes properly. What a bunch of crap.

They write laws that they promptly exempt themselve from having to follow.  The Congressional check kiting scandal that was buried several years ago because of all the politicians from both parties who were bouncing checks all over the place.

The lavish trips and other boondoggles that we all know these companies and other entities provide the politicians.

The list goes on and on.

I'm not saying every single Congressmen is dirty.  But there is so much of it that IS occurring and it seems little is being done to stop it.

I know of very few politicains who are  in Congress that come back and start doing their old job. It always seems they never have to work a day in their life again.  Many of them it is books or speaking engagements, others they just don't seem to ever have to work again.  That is just odd to me for a temporary job.

I say eliminate the congressional pay and maybe then we'd get people who are there to be true statemsmen and to serve. But instead we seem in large part to have a bunch of power hungry people who once on the gravy train never seem to get off of it.

---

From: Jerry Eichenberger <jEiche...@ehlawyers.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:11 PM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

Tom –

From: Cy Galley <cga...@mchsi.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

Corruption:

 

How about one Jessie Jackson Jr.???

 

 

 

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http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

 

--
colie pitts

[Rich Dugger]

It isn’t the bad apples that bother me so much as the fact that the rest of them are also bad apples and sit there and do nothing about it.
There just isn’t much honor among congressional politicians, it seems or they wouldn’t be able to get away with it.

The post office scandal was just as bad.

They bought huge amounts of postage stamps with their budget money and them took the stamps back to their private post office and turned them in for cash.
Good old Dan Rostenkowski (SP?)  from IL got caught up in that.
The good news is he and many like him are dead and will have to answer to a higher power.
I doubt he will think it was worth it.
Rich

 

 

"I don't know what use any one could find for a machine that would make copies of documents. It certainly couldn't be a feasible business by itself."

(The head of IBM, refusing to back the idea, forcing the inventor to found Xerox)

[Tom Holmes]

Not to go down this rabbit trail again, but what bothers me is that the voters who put them there, don't take the trouble to see what they're up to, and boot them out.

Tom

From: Cy Galley <cga...@mchsi.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits

 

Corruption:

 

How about one Jessie Jackson Jr.???

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

 

--
colie pitts

_______________________________________________
Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

_______________________________________________
Aeronca mailing list
Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

[Tom Pederson]

Yeah, good point. As a guy that I once worked with told me, "I don't care about issues...I just vote for the guy who gives me the most stuff."  IMHO, blind loyalty in the voting booth is killing us.

[Rich Dugger]

One of my democrat friends said a similar thing. Something along the lines of “When I consider a politician I ask myself. What is he gonna do for me?”

 

I love the guy but I wanted to grab him and shake him to see if he was brain dead.

Too many years in the electrician’s union, I guess.
I will tell you one thing.

A politician will never do anything for anybody without first securing someone else’s money to fund their attempt to buy the love and affection of another group.

 

End of anything even remotely politically related.

 

I promise.

 

Rich

 

 

"I don't know what use any one could find for a machine that would make copies of documents. It certainly couldn't be a feasible business by itself."

(The head of IBM, refusing to back the idea, forcing the inventor to found Xerox)

[j...@joea.com]

Tom,

That's why we need term limits. Clear out the dead wood and get the "lifetime politicians" who think more about themselves than the voters out of the seat.

Joe A

---

Date sent:                   Mon, 9 Sep 2013 12:20:45 -0700 (PDT)

From:                         Tom Holmes <thomasth...@sbcglobal.net>

To:                             "aer...@westmont.edu" <aer...@westmont.edu>

Subject:                     Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits###

Send reply to:             aer...@westmont.edu, Tom Holmes <thomasth...@sbcglobal.net>

                                 <mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=unsubscribe>

                                 <mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu?subject=subscribe>

Not to go down this rabbit trail again, but what bothers me is that the voters who put them there, don't take the trouble to see what they're up to, and boot them out.

Tom

From: Rich Dugger <richd...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu; Thomas DeWinter <toms...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits###

It isn't the bad apples that bother me so much as the fact that the rest of them are also bad apples and sit there and do nothing about it.
There just isn't much honor among congressional politicians, it seems or they wouldn't be able to get away with it.

The post office scandal was just as bad.

They bought huge amounts of postage stamps with their budget money and them took the stamps back to their private post office and turned them in for cash.
Good old Dan Rostenkowski (SP?) from IL got caught up in that.
The good news is he and many like him are dead and will have to answer to a higher power.
I doubt he will think it was worth it.
Rich

"I don't know what use any one could find for a machine that would make copies of documents. It certainly couldn't be a feasible business by itself."

(The head of IBM, refusing to back the idea, forcing the inventor to found Xerox)

> wrote:I don't think the politician has to get caught and go to jail to be corrupt.

I do not want to be sitting around a campfire answering my grandchild what it was like to live under freedom, and why I didn't do anything to prevent the loss of that freedom. How about you?From: Cy Galley < cga...@mchsi.com >
To: aer...@westmont.edu

[Dan Wagner]

Please guys. A little respect for John. He ask politely to let this die.

Dan Wagner

---

From: richd...@gmail.com
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:39:22 -0500

[Richard Murray]

Don't forget the (dis)Honorable James Trafficant form Youngstown, Ohio. Thrown out of Congress for ethics violations and was subsequently re-elected by the district he represents. That's why Congress is a mess and that's why the good have to suffer with term limits so we can get rid of the bad.

[CaptG...@aol.com]

A local politician tole me this--

 

"Voting for a politician that believes in term limits is like happily paying alimony to the first while providing the second new found riches. It never ends".

 

In a message dated 9/9/2013 3:40:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, richd...@gmail.com writes:

One of my democrat friends said a similar thing. Something along the lines of “When I consider a politician I ask myself. What is he gonna do for me?”

 

I love the guy but I wanted to grab him and shake him to see if he was brain dead.

Too many years in the electrician’s union, I guess.
I will tell you one thing.

A politician will never do anything for anybody without first securing someone else’s money to fund their attempt to buy the love and affection of another group.

 

End of anything even remotely politically related.

 

I promise.

 

Rich

 

 

"I don't know what use any one could find for a machine that would make copies of documents. It certainly couldn't be a feasible business by itself."

(The head of IBM, refusing to back the idea, forcing the inventor to found Xerox)

From: Tom Pederson

Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 2:26 PM

To: Aeronca ; Tom Holmes

Subject: Re: [f-AA] ###Term Limits###

Yeah, good point. As a guy that I once worked with told me, "I don't care about issues...I just vote for the guy who gives me the most stuff."  IMHO, blind loyalty in the voting booth is killing us.

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Aer...@westmont.edu
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca