[f-AA] Chief Shoulder Harness Installation

[Donato Martino]

Do you recommend installing shoulder harnesses in the Chief?  Where did you purchase the harness and what was the cost? Approximate time and installation costs?  Thanks a bunch.

Donato

[danv...@gmail.com]

Buy whatever brand you like. Hooker is the usual "go to" brand. Search the web for a set that is serviceable. Don't buy the the STC. It's not required. Install them yourself or with the help of a knowledgeable friend. There are plenty of "how to" instructions on the web. 

The FAA takes s very liberal and encouraging view the owner/operator installing shoulder harnesses and lap belts in legacy, certificated airplanes that were manufactured before the more recent applicable regs. There is an FAA document to this effect if you need it.

In my view there is no single mechanical safety mod more important than a good shoulder harness/lap belt combo. 

Dan v

On May 17, 2017, at 9:29 PM, Donato Martino <Don...@mail.com> wrote:

Do you recommend installing shoulder harnesses in the Chief?  Where did you purchase the harness and what was the cost? Approximate time and installation costs?  Thanks a bunch.

Donato

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[Roger Anderson]

I put them in my Chief several years ago.  I think I just got these simple ones.  You can install yourself actually using the spar cross bar.  That has been an approved connection point for years.   First one took about an hour.  Second one about 20 minutes.  I've got pictures of recommended installation.  Also, you can get fancy and do a more comfortable fit using a design by Bill Pancake.  And, you can get more expensive harnesses that are more easily adjustable and comfortable.  I think Wag Aero and AS both have the same inexpensive harness for about the same price.  You probably need the combination harness and belt kit.  roger

https://www.wagaero.com/seat-belt-y-harness-combination.html

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From: "Donato Martino" <Don...@mail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:29:07 PM
Subject: [f-AA] Chief Shoulder Harness Installation

Do you recommend installing shoulder harnesses in the Chief?  Where did you purchase the harness and what was the cost? Approximate time and installation costs?  Thanks a bunch.

Donato

[Jim Chuk]

I saw where someone made hardware for the shoulder harness in the Chief that looked like this.  By unzipping the zipper in the headliner, it was possible to mount the hardware.  The bottom of the 3/8" OD tubes just touched the top of the headliner.  A 5/16" hole in the headliner let the 5/16" AN bolt drop down and fasten to the shoulder harness.  Seems like a very clean installation, and the belts seem to be at a good angle.  The first picture shows the hardware being made up in a temporary fixture that replicated the upper tubes in the Chief fuselage.  Materials were 4130 steel and AN bolts.   I think the guy that did it didn't want to claim the design for liability reasons.  Jim Chuk

[Ian Harvie]

Donato

I think shoulder harnesses are a must! I got Hooker harness for the
Chief. They are more expensive than the Wag Aero etc but far better
because the Hooker are adjustable either side, where as the others only
adjust easily on one side which puts the buckle off to one side with a
fatter person if set up initially for a thin person and vice versa. I
found this out when I got Wag Aero ones for my Stinson. To adjust in
this case you have to access to the buckle arrangement in the middle
which on the Stinson for example is between the seats and not easy to
get to.

Ian

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[Ian Harvie]

PS, here is a picture of my installation. The vertical tubes are part of
the completely unnecessary frame that was deigned in Australia, and
which at the time I used, the cross bar as shown by someone is far better.

Ian

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[Ian Harvie]

Wrong picture, I'll get it right soon. Here is the one I meant to send.

Ian

[Roger Anderson]

Donato.  I sent you a diagram of the simple installation.  Let me know if it doesn't open again.  As Ian says, if you're going to be carrying persons of various sizes, the cheaper ones are more difficult to adjust, and the Hookers being a good investment probably.  If it's just you and one repeat passenger, the cheapos are fine.  In any case, I flew for years and years without shoulder harness.  Now can't imagine not having them.   roger

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From: "Ian Harvie" <ianh...@internode.on.net>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:45:05 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Chief Shoulder Harness Installation

[Galen Hutcheson]

Nice installation Ian, I like to use military harnesses when I can find them.  They are strong and have a simple hookup. Galen

[Rafael Gomez Blanco]

Mr. Pancake is making me right now a brace for a 4 point  for my '38 but installation needs to happen before you put the interior on.  My friend has a 39 and a simple 3 point installation.

Rafael

[Bruce Snider]

I did the spar installation on my Champ.  Total time about 6 hours. I did the Hookers.  Really nice harnesses.   The only hard part was making the holes in the wood above the carry through spar.  (about 1/2 the time ).  I practiced a lot before doing that part.  I wanted to make sure that I did not need any repairs from my fat fingers.  Well worth the effort. 

Bruce 

--

(469) 737-0833

[Roger Anderson]

Yea.  For something so simple, figuring out how to cut that small slot was a mess.  After the first effort, I finally got it simplified though with a small90 degree angle drill head and after a series of small holes across needed width, got a small file into the drilled cuts to smooth and clean it up.   roger

---

From: "Bruce Snider" <cham...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 8:48:15 AM

[Jim Chuk]

I sent this picture to my flying partner in the Chief after we had talked about getting shoulder harness.  When he saw the picture, he said, let's do it.  Last fall, a friend of mine stalled his 170 in while landing.  He just had a lap belt.  Ended up loosing an eye, and got some brain damage.  It made him give up flying, and in fact will be selling a nice Chief that he owns in a few weeks.  Instead of walking around cussing what had just happened, he spent a few weeks laying in a hospital bed.  Jim Chuk

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 8:29:42 PM UTC-5, Donato Martino wrote:

[Donato Martino]

Hi Roger, thanks a bunch for all the info and pictures.  I agree shoulder harnesses are a must.  And thanks everyone for your valuable input.  This is a great forum for information exchange, you guys are the best.

 

thank you,

Donato

 

Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 8:49 AM

From: "Roger Anderson" <11...@comcast.net>
To: "Aeronca List, aeronca" <aer...@westmont.edu>

[Doug Rounds]

Every "Old" airplane should have a shoulder harness just like your car .If you  don't have one and you have an accident and your face gets smashed-- while looking at an ugly face and choking chest just compare the medical costs. If I offended anyone so be it. Safety is not cheap--either way you when you ---crash or pay. Doug

[Jim Chuk]

When my partner and I were talking about putting shoulder harnesses in our Chief, I sent him this picture.  We put the harnesses in.   Last fall, I had a friend stall his 170 in on landing, and had no shoulder harnesses.  He lost an eye, and really messed up his face.  Had some brain damage as well.  Probably would have been walking around the plane cussing at what had just happened if he had the shoulder harnesses.  Instead, he spent a couple of weeks in a hospital.  He gave up flying, and in fact will be selling a nice Chief soon.  Jim Chuk 

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 8:29:42 PM UTC-5, Donato Martino wrote: