[f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

[Ron Normandeau]

Does anyone have or know of availability of an STC for placing shoulder harnesses in the 11AC?

 

Ron Normandeau

[Mark PETERSON]

Not needed anymore Ron... A simple logbook entry is all it takes.  I just looped mine over the rear spar carry through and called it good.
I actually have an approved 337, but that isn't necessary any more.

Mark

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From: rona...@centurytel.net
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:02:37 -0700
Subject: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

Does anyone have or know of availability of an STC for placing shoulder harnesses in the 11AC?

 

Ron Normandeau

_______________________________________________ Aeronca mailing list Aer...@westmont.edu http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

[Ian Harvie]

Ron, I got mine for my 11AC from Hooker Harness, They are very good.

Ian

[John Baker]

Ron,

 

Here’s the link to the FAA policy statement permitting shoulder harness installation as a minor change:

 

http://www.hangar9aeroworks.com/shoulderpolicy.pdf

 

This, and other tech info, can be found on my website at:

 

http://www.hangar9aeroworks.com/AeroncaTechInfo/AeroncaTechInfo.html

 

John Baker

www.hangar9aeroworks.com

 

 

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From: aeronca...@westmont.edu [mailto:aeronca...@westmont.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Normandeau
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 11:03 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

 

Does anyone have or know of availability of an STC for placing shoulder harnesses in the 11AC?

 

Ron Normandeau

[Travis Gregory]

I have a jig to make a bracket for Chief shoulder harnesses. No cutting, welding or drilling on the aircraft structure, it clamps in place. Can send photos if you's like. It's easy to install but a challenge to safety wire.

 

travis

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From: Ron Normandeau <rona...@centurytel.net>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 10:02:37 PM

Subject: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

[ssta...@cinci.rr.com]

Does anybody know if a C90 can be retrofitted onto a Chief 11ac without the Buzz Wagner STC?

Steve Statkus

[M THOMPSON]

Hey Travis this would be great,can you send me some pics also,I have thought about doing this myself..didnt know of an easy way...

 

Thanks

Mark..chiefboy

k...@bellsouth.net

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From: Travis Gregory <nc4...@yahoo.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 6:29:51 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

[Mark McAtee]

I, too, would be interested in the 11AC shoulder harness photos. 
NC86307

 
 
 
Mark, 11AC NC86307


 
"All airplanes bite fools "        borrowed from a message to an Aeronca newsgroup
 

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 07:09:00 -0800
From: m4...@bellsouth.net
To: aer...@westmont.edu

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

Hey Travis this would be great,can you send me some pics also,I have thought about doing this myself..didnt know of an easy way...

 

Thanks

Mark..chiefboy

k...@bellsouth.net

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From: Travis Gregory <nc4...@yahoo.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 6:29:51 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

I have a jig to make a bracket for Chief shoulder harnesses. No cutting, welding or drilling on the aircraft structure, it clamps in place. Can send photos if you's like. It's easy to install but a challenge to safety wire.

 

travis

---

From: Ron Normandeau <rona...@centurytel.net>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 10:02:37 PM
Subject: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

Does anyone have or know of availability of an STC for placing shoulder harnesses in the 11AC?

 

Ron Normandeau

[Mark PETERSON]

We looked at a lot of options for the shoulder harness back in '94.  Logic was: adding hardware just adds weight and additional points of failure.  The bottom line is that the belts need to be secured to a aircraft structure and they
have to loop over something.  The brackets have a thin area of contact that increases the stress on the belts.  A larger radius distributes the loads.  The AD back in the 1940's added an inner tube to the rear spar carry through, a doubler.
So we just looped the belt over the rear spar carry through.  It also makes the belt ride higher and in the proper angle for use.   In a crash, the insurance company is going to own the plane anyway, so worrying
about the easily replaced tube isn't going to help much.  You should inspect it to make sure that its not rubbing into bare metal and making rust, but in 16 years after installation this isn't a problem.  

I'm more worried about the seat sliding forward and up on the radius of the restraints than the shoulder harness.   I've got the cable secure thing.  I added web strap in the center that will stretch before failure to lessen the load on the cables.
There really should be an additional restraint on the seat bottom to keep the lower part down and secure.

IMHO, noting there is nothing wrong with brackets, but I went a different way,
Mark

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 03:29:51 -0800
From: nc4...@yahoo.com

To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

[Thomas DeWinter]

I was one person who used Travis's jig.  Works great.  Felt MUCH more secure this last year having the shoulder harness installed.

I think I kept a file and stuff on exactly what belts, bolts and stuff that I used.  also Travis pictures and I may have pictures of my installation as well.  If you need it.

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From: M THOMPSON <m4...@bellsouth.net>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 9:09:00 AM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

[Don Harvie]

Here are some pictures & drawing's of Dad's (Ian) solution:

<http://harvie.cable.nu/gallery2/main.php/v/Don/Flying/Aeronca_VH-IDH/Drawings/ChiefShoulderHarnessPlan-2.jpg.html>

<http://harvie.cable.nu/gallery2/main.php/v/Don/Flying/Aeronca_VH-IDH/ShoulderHarnessMounts.jpg.html>

<http://harvie.cable.nu/gallery2/main.php/v/Don/Flying/Aeronca_VH-IDH/2008_07_27/IMG_6831.JPG.html>

This is of course in Australia and we have different rules here. But the
shoulder harness frame in the drawing is not permanently attached to the
airframe so I don't think it should be classified as a major alteration.

Don Harvie
Sydney, Aus

On 18/11/2010 3:02 PM, Ron Normandeau wrote:

_______________________________________________

[Travis Gregory]

Don's pictures are great. I adapted my bracket concept from Ian's drawings and measurements taken from the bracket Hooker used to supply but no longer does. I will be sending pics tomorrow to those of you who requested them. I've been working until today and today was consumed with getting oil pressure to come up in Cousin Eddie's engine and getting it flown the 20 miles to the I.A.'s
shop. As a hail Mary effort we put a couple of old tires on the hangar floor and tied a rope to the fuselage lifting hook and raised the tail until the prop was resting on the tire. An hour later and back from lunch we tried one more time to start the 85 and see oil pressure. It worked! Engine is now off and the accessory case will soon be on it's way for an overhaul.

 

Shouler harness pics will be going out soon. Don's father Ian had a huge hand in designing this and it is a neet installation that works well.

 

travis

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From: Don Harvie <donh...@yahoo.com.au>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 5:42:31 PM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

[Sam Burke]

Hi All,

I am planning on placing an order for a shoulder harness listed in the WagAero Catalog as SKU: H-618-006.  Without any installation plans I think I will follow the Charlie Lasher suggestions on Page 26-5 and 26-6 of Volume A-207 Nov 1991.  Since my installation is on an L16A I plan on winding aircraft control cable around the square tube between the read spars as shown in the attached photo. Any suggestions would be welcomed. 

I will need to drill a few holes in the wood spacer just above the square tube to allow the cables to pass. 

Sam Burke  

1947 L16A Red Flicker N6404C 

The photo is of the square steel tube above the rear seat which passes between the rear wing spars. The two cables shown are the L16 trim cables. 

[M THOMPSON]

I like your logic here Mark,looking forward to seeing the different ways you guys have done this instalation.

Mark when you looped the strap over the doubler,how did you hook up?..did you sew it or does the strap feed into a stop clamp on the shoulder harness?,or the buckle itself?...I dont remember what kind I had in my kitfox,but they did work great...lol

 

Mark....chiefboy

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From: Mark PETERSON <mrpet...@msn.com>
To: The Fearless Aeronca Aviators <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 11:09:00 AM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Seat belt harnesses

[vand...@aol.com]

I believe that the price in the catalog for the harness kit includes
the STC. I also believe you can buy the harness for less from Wag
without the STC for less. It is not clear to me that you must purchase
an STCs for each harness if they are installed in the same airplane. I
am aware of at least one instance where this was done by an owner-
pilot at considerable savings. This person called Wag to order the
kits. Wag had no problem with selling without the STC.
Dan VdMeer

[Mark PETERSON]

A simple loop using the same stop clamp you use anyway.

Mark

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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 02:07:29 -0800
From: m4...@bellsouth.net

[M THOMPSON]

Thanks Mark...should be a simple install

 

regards..chiefboy.

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From: Mark PETERSON <mrpet...@msn.com>
To: The Fearless Aeronca Aviators <aer...@westmont.edu>

Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 5:39:15 PM

[CaptG...@aol.com]

If you buy the Hooker harness the  paper work comes with it. And you can install it  with a logbook entry--no big deal.

Doug

[Cy Galley]

Instead of safety wire, why not use a Loctite product along with an anti-sabotage mark.  The “red” has to be heated over 500° to get it to release, while the “blue” can be overcome with wrenches.

 

 

Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair

A service project of EAA Chapter 75 since 1963

www.eaa75.com

[Travis Gregory]

That could be an excellent idea!

 

Thanks Cy,

 

travis

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From: Cy Galley <cga...@mchsi.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 8:00:09 AM

[Sam Burke]

Hi Friends,

Just received my red shoulder harness from WagAero and they look very substantial. The kit came with an STC from Aero Fabricators in Lyons, WI dated April 1992. The kit was on cheep $170. The steel U connects to the main spar carry-through by drilling holes in the wood spacer above the spar carry-through bar.

Regards,
Sam Burke Red Flicker N6404C 1947 L16A

[Mike Knemeyer]

Thats what I installed with the headliner already in was not to hard
to do. If you need or want to see some pictures during install let me
know? Well back to clean / prime some wing parts!

Mikek

Mike K

--
Mike & Melva Knemeyer