[f-AA] Brackett Filters

[Sam Burke]

Richard, 

Tell me more about the carb ice you experienced because of the Airmaze air filter for your Champ.  What would you suggest I do if I leave my L16 outside overnight and it rains since I am currently using an Airmaze. ?

Regards,

Sam Burke N6404C  1947 L16A  C85-12  7BCM-296  USAF 47-1076

[joer...@suddenlink.net]

You probably have the BA 4106 filter assembly which is used on Cessna 150s and J3 Cubs among others. It uses a BA 4108 replacement element. If its installation wasn't field approved, it probably is illegal, or a better choice of words would be, not approved. jrh



---- Harvey Brock <harve...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I saved this old email with the intent of ordering a replacement air filter element for my Chief when I was due for maintenace. Well, when I visited Brackett Aero Filters to look up a replacement for the Aeronca 11AC, I didn't find anything on their website nor in their catalog. Suggestions?
> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 07:55:27 -0700
> From: rhawley...@gmail.com
> To: aer...@westmont.edu
> Subject: [f-AA] Brackett Filters
>
> I just received a kit from Brackett Filters to install their elements in my existing Airmaze. I'd rather expected they would fabricate their own box as well but the convirsion was quick, easy, and very neat. A 337 will be required, though I wonder just how many FAA inspectors would recognise the difference in the elements, or for that matter, care.
> Others of you may also be receiving the same kit as this is something I requested about three years ago and was told it would be sent out when it was ready.With the Airmaze element, I've had carb ice on initial takeoff three times after the plane was parked outside and it rained overnight. The water wasn't pulled out of the element during the runup, but full throttle did the trick. Not something you forget.
> Richard happy in Florence.--
> Not all who wander are lost.
>
>
>
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[joer...@suddenlink.net]

I'm sorry. I'm a little tired and realized I misread Harvey Brock's post and what he was looking for. Brackett must not have updated their applicability chart yet. Try contacting them by email. jrh

[Jim]

Within the last 3 weeks, I spoke with someone at Brackett (Scott I think) regarding a filter for a 7CCM. He said one would be out by next year but for now nothing is approved. Did something get approved recently?


Sent from my iPhone

[Harvey Brock]

Not to my knowledge. I suppose I am just now learning what many of you already know about these filters.
 
Harvey
 

> CC: aer...@westmont.edu
> From: straight...@yahoo.com
> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 21:54:35 -0500
> To: aer...@westmont.edu
> Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

[Richard Holcombe]

Hi Sam

My experience is hardly scientific, and I can't really say it is because of the Airmaze. However I do a couple of things. 

If I am taking a passenger I do a once around the pattern to warm up the engine a bit before taking off fully loaded.

If the plane has been parked outside and it is wet in the morning I do a much more agressive run-up, be alert for the possibility of a problem, and avoid any take off that coudn't be made with carb heat on. When the ice has struck, it was not immediate, but just after lift-off. Perfect timing, but it has happened so seldom I haven't really developed an allternative strategy. What do you do about something that crops up seeming randomly about once every two hundred hours of flying? Get paranoid? Talk to the Chaplain? or just fly fearlessly.

If really concerned, like soaking wet or in the rain, I think I would take off with carb heat on, and not close it until pattern altitude with the field in reach if a problem developed. Then head out on my way.

Cheers

Richard

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[Richard Holcombe]

The filter element they sent me is BA-154E which fits Fillter BA-154. As I stated below, it came with the screen and grill to convert the Airmaze filter box after removing the Airmaze element..

[Dale P. Jewett]

Would this Brackett filter also be applicable to a 1946 Chief 11AC? I sent an E-Mail to Brackett about a week ago, but have not received any response.

 

Dale Jewett

----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Holcombe

To: aer...@westmont.edu

Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:25 PM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

[Jim]

Ok I'm confused. Is this something approved via STC or just something that fits? 

Sent from my iPhone

[Ian Harvie]

Dale, I have a Brackett set up off a C-150. I had to make a new air box
any way so made it to fit the Brackett. They are not so anal about
Bracketts here though. The only time I ever got carb icing was after
sitting a few days in wet weather at a fly in. I was on grass and
started up and let it run at about 1500 RPM to warm up for some time
when I found the revs dropping. The locals said that will happen if you
run up on grass as it sucks up the moisture from the grass, never on tar.

Ian

On 22/10/2012 7:05 AM, Dale P. Jewett wrote:
> Would this Brackett filter also be applicable to a 1946 Chief 11AC? I
> sent an E-Mail to Brackett about a week ago, but have not received any
> response.
> Dale Jewett
>
>
>

[Dale P. Jewett]

Ian,

I have had carb icing a couple of times after I reduced power preparing to
land. First time, the engine stopped before I completed my rollout. Then I
found that the air inlet to the RH exhaust muff had come off of the muff. I
repaired that, but still have occasionally a few "burps" on base leg, even
having selected carb heat on downwind. Apparently the Wye exhaust doesn't
really develop enough heat for good carb heat. I am making a pair of the
heat muff baffles as per the factory drawing. After I install them, I hope
to get better heat both for carb heat, and for cabin heat. Of course, I have
so many air leaks around the doors, I really don't expect much improvement
in cabin heat. My main concern is to develop good carb heat for icing
protection. I always try to fly my patterns in close so if I do lose the
engine due to icing, I could still make the runway.

Dale Jewett

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Harvie" <ianh...@internode.on.net>
To: <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

Dale, I have a Brackett set up off a C-150. I had to make a new air box
any way so made it to fit the Brackett. They are not so anal about
Bracketts here though. The only time I ever got carb icing was after
sitting a few days in wet weather at a fly in. I was on grass and
started up and let it run at about 1500 RPM to warm up for some time
when I found the revs dropping. The locals said that will happen if you
run up on grass as it sucks up the moisture from the grass, never on tar.

Ian

[Jay Curtis]

Ian , I also only have had it happen on grass also . If grass is dewy an
even more thorough carb warming and rpm test, followed with little delay and
little or no idle allowed when ready. In condition's more favourable for
carb icing I like to avoid power off descents that with high vacuum must
make it more likely. Old farm tractors with similar carbs in damp days
turn white with frost on start up with low power settings (high vacuum). It
helps drive home how fast it could happen if conditions are right. I have
c-150 heat exchangers, for a near toasty left foot.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 4:55 PM
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

Dale, I have a Brackett set up off a C-150. I had to make a new air box
any way so made it to fit the Brackett. They are not so anal about
Bracketts here though. The only time I ever got carb icing was after
sitting a few days in wet weather at a fly in. I was on grass and
started up and let it run at about 1500 RPM to warm up for some time
when I found the revs dropping. The locals said that will happen if you
run up on grass as it sucks up the moisture from the grass, never on tar.

Ian

[Richard Holcombe]

As far as I can see, none of this is "legal" without a 337 from an IA. It is also not clear where to buy a replacement BA-154E element. I can't seem to find anyone who carries it. 

This whole thing is a "no brainer" that has been stuck in limbo land for years. The kit just showed up so I'm going to use it, but what the problem is in makeing it a standard available option I have no idea.

richard

[Richard Holcombe]

It just fits.

[Richard Holcombe]

Happened to me on tar.

[Harvey Brock]

Maybe I need to ask Brackett the same question. When enough questions are asked about the same subject, maybe someone will get an answer.
  However, this discussion has reduced my desire to use the Brackett filter design because of the carb ice probability. As mentioned in the discussion, I've seen plenty of old tractor manifold necks frost over right after start-up. When I think about how poorly my heater works, I have to suspect the carb heat is no better. Since humidity, condensation, fog, ETC are always an issue here,,,,,maybe I had better consider another appraoch.
 
Thanks for the input.
Harvey
 

---

From: dal...@sbcglobal.net
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 15:05:34 -0500

[Ian Harvie]

Dale, that's the only time I've experienced any icing in about 300
hours. Yes always do my circuits close and pull carb heat on base. Cabin
heat is fine, I have Hanlon Wilson mufflers, best part of the basket
case when I bought it.

Ian

> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.2741 / Virus Database: 2614/5844 - Release Date: 10/20/12

[Ian Harvie]

Jay, many years ago my parents when they stopped driving gave me their
old (New) Morris (It had 45000 miles on the clock)
I was driving back from Melbourne to Sydney on the coast road, misty
cold weather. I found that the accelerator cable had seized up (I
thought) so took to switching off down hill to stop accelerating too
much. In a little while it just didn't make the next crest and I stopped
and lifted the bonnet (hood) The carburettor was a block of ice and that
of course had locked the butterfly of the carb. They had a system where
you could turn the inlet to the air filter and draw from around the
exhaust manifold, and this is what I did when the ice melted.

Ian

> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.2741 / Virus Database: 2614/5844 - Release Date: 10/20/12
>
>

[Tom Holmes]

Could it be installed under ac 23-27?

Curious minds want to know!

Tom

---

From: Richard Holcombe <rhawley...@gmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 6:23 PM

[Ian Harvie]

Harvey, yes but I thought the original thread was that the Air Maze iced
up more than the Brackett? Some time ago I flew through the most
incredible dust storms. The Brackett was orange on the outside, but
showed no sign of the dust on the inside. I'm a convert.

Ian

On 22/10/2012 10:16 AM, Harvey Brock wrote:
> Maybe I need to ask Brackett the same question. When enough questions
> are asked about the same subject, maybe someone will get an answer.
> However, this discussion has reduced my desire to use the Brackett
> filter design because of the carb ice probability. As mentioned in the
> discussion, I've seen plenty of old tractor manifold necks frost
> over right after start-up. When I think about how poorly my heater
> works, I have to suspect the carb heat is no better. Since humidity,
> condensation, fog, ETC are always an issue here,,,,,maybe I had better
> consider another appraoch.
>
> Thanks for the input.
> Harvey
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dale P. Jewett]

Ian,

With the Hanlon-Wilson mufflers, your heat would be many times better than
the best of the Wye exhaust muffs. I had the C-150 muffler conversion on my
1939 Stinson HW-75, and the carb heat was very good. The cabin heat was
tolerable, even in very cold Kansas weather. Of course, the doors were
sealed quite well. On a very cold Kansas day, as soon as I pulled the power
off for landing, the cabin got quite colder.

Dale Jewett

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Harvie" <ianh...@internode.on.net>
To: <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

Dale, that's the only time I've experienced any icing in about 300
hours. Yes always do my circuits close and pull carb heat on base. Cabin
heat is fine, I have Hanlon Wilson mufflers, best part of the basket
case when I bought it.

Ian

[Harvey Brock]

Thanks Ian,
   You are right, I went back and looked. It is the Air Maze that seems to be the icing problem culprit. My mistake.
 
Harvey
 

> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:29:23 +1100
> From: ianh...@internode.on.net
> To: aer...@westmont.edu

> Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters
>

[Richard Holcombe]

It is the Airmaze element that held the water after parking out in the rain. My hope is that the Brackett won't hold as much. Only real "solution" is taking off with carb heat on and sucking out the water after the engine is good and warm and at a safe altitude.

[Harvey Brock]

  I have sent a request to Brackett asking about a filter to fit my '46 Chief. I'll see what (if anything) they reply.
 I did get the brands mixed up in my mind, but that's not unusual for me now. Actually, mixing things up happens more often as I get older too. I think my memory left with my hair.
 
Harvey
 

---

Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 18:00:54 -0700
From: rhawley...@gmail.com
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

[Tom Holmes]

MMO! ;-)

Tom

---

From: Harvey Brock <harve...@hotmail.com>
To: aer...@westmont.edu
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 9:24 PM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

[Jim]

It would be a stretch under AC 23-27 I don't think so. Also someone posted earlier about an IA sign off. For an IA to sign it off, it has to be installed IAW an STC, which there isn't one yet, so without a field approval as of now a bracket air filter replacing an airmaze is illegal. Jim

Sent from my iPhone

[Mark Peterson]

 
 
Unless you have a 337....
 

---

From: straight...@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:53:44 -0700
To: aer...@westmont.edu; thomasth...@sbcglobal.net

[Mark Peterson]

In 1990 it was easy to get a 337 from Bracket to use as a go-by to use the 4108/4106 unit from the Cessna 120-140.  They had a kit, which sounds like the same one they are selling now.  A fine chicken wire screen for the intake side, the filter and a grill to put on the front side.  Easy to put on and no hassle.    They included a previously approved 337 on a Champ for the local FSDO to rubber stamp.  Since the FSDOs have stopped doing 337s, they were forced to go the STC route.  
 

---

Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 18:59:15 -0700
From: thomasth...@sbcglobal.net

[Gregory Horrell]

It has to be approved IAW approved data. STC, engineering data, field approval...

Gregg Horrell

Sent from Gregg's iPhone

[Scott Johnson]

On the field approval front, it would be bone simple to get a standard
Bracket mount and filter assembly approved. Just use the field
approval checklist and ask before doing and it should go smoothly.

I am going to be doing this for our Champ.

Scott

[Cy Galley]

How about these words from AC23-27 as a filter is part of the power producing system ENGINE

 

6. ENGINE PARTS. You may install substitute/alternate engine parts for a part that is

approved as original equipment or a PMA part for the engine installed on your aircraft in the

following instance:

a. The substitute/alternate part is PMA approved for a certificated engine, even if that engine

is not the model approved for use on your aircraft model, and

b. If the part is identical to (used on multiple engine models) the part for your engine model,

or is listed as an approved substitute part by the engine manufacturer, then you may install the

alternate part, and document the installation with only a logbook entry.

Approval: This is a minor alteration and you may document it by a logbook entry. The logbook

entry must reference the manufacturer's identification and industry specification for the original

and replacement part.

[Scott Johnson]

You know Cy, not sure on that one. I think the Brackett STC #'s all
start with SA which as I understand it would mean "Supplemental,
Airframe". Can't hurt to ask a local FSDO though.

Scott

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Cy Galley <cga...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> How about these words from AC23-27 as a filter is part of the power
> producing system ENGINE
>
>

[Dale P. Jewett]

I just finished speaking with Scott at Brackett. He said that the filter
adaptations are to the airframe, rather than the engine. He also said that
he is working on producing an adapter and filter assembly for the 7AC and
the 11AC, predicted it might be available early 2013. I told him to hurry,
because he would be able to sell a lot of them once the information of
availability became known. He told me that the BA-154E element that fits
into the BA-154 is not approved, and that it is not a good seal at the
bottom. The newer (forthcoming) adapter and filter will correct that
deficiency.

I hope he comes through, but don't hold your breath!!!!

Dale Jewett



----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Johnson" <sko...@gmail.com>
To: <aer...@westmont.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

[Harvey Brock]

  For now,,,I'll take that as good news!

[John Rodkey]

I just put a solid vs perforated triangle air dam in the carb heat muff, and rpm drop on application of carb heat was at least 50 rpm more than before. 

--
John (poobah) Rodkey - N9361E 11AC at Goleta

[Dale P. Jewett]

John,

 

I am having some more of these made, but still waiting. I will still send you a couple when I receive them.

 

Dale Jewett

----- Original Message -----

From: John Rodkey

To: aer...@westmont.edu

Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

I just put a solid vs perforated triangle air dam in the carb heat muff, and rpm drop on application of carb heat was at least 50 rpm more than before. 

On Sunday, October 21, 2012, Dale P. Jewett wrote:

Ian,

I have had carb icing a couple of times after I reduced power preparing to
land. First time, the engine stopped before I completed my rollout. Then I
found that the air inlet to the RH exhaust muff had come off of the muff. I
repaired that, but still have occasionally a few "burps" on base leg, even
having selected carb heat on downwind. Apparently the Wye exhaust doesn't
really develop enough heat for good carb heat. I am making a pair of the
heat muff baffles as per the factory drawing. After I install them, I hope
to get better heat both for carb heat, and for cabin heat. Of course, I have
so many air leaks around the doors, I really don't expect much improvement
in cabin heat. My main concern is to develop good carb heat  for icing
protection. I always try to fly my patterns in close so if I do lose the
engine due to icing, I could still make the runway.

Dale Jewett

[John Rodkey]

That'll be great.  I just used a piece of aluminum, knowing it probably won't last.

John

[Dale P. Jewett]

John,

 

 

The ones I am having  made are of stainless steel. I have had them at a shop for more than a week, should have been completed by now. I don't know what the holdup is, the pattern is quite simple.

 

Dale

[Dale P. Jewett]

John,

 

I finally received my heater muff baffles today, and have put two of them in the mail to you. I have enough Stainless Steel material to make several more if anyone needs them. 

 

Dale Jewett

----- Original Message -----

From: John Rodkey

To: aer...@westmont.edu

Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 6:36 PM

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

[John Rodkey]

Thanks, Dale!

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[Jim Chuk]

Any one have any further info on these Brackett filters getting approval for our Chiefs and Champs?  Thanks,  JImChuk

On Saturday, October 20, 2012 at 7:06:26 PM UTC-5, Sam Burke, Aeronca L16a, N6404C, C85 wrote:

Richard, 

Tell me more about the carb ice you experienced because of the Airmaze air filter for your Champ.  What would you suggest I do if I leave my L16 outside overnight and it rains since I am currently using an Airmaze. ?

Regards,

Sam Burke N6404C  1947 L16A  C85-12  7BCM-296  USAF 47-1076

[Mark Peterson]

I agree.... I've had one with a 337 on the plane since 95 and I think that the Brackett folks need a reminder

that they said they were going to get them approved.  Kinda a brain freeze on the FAA part, since they are

all over on the fleet and well proven by useage over the decades.   Should be nothing more than a couple

of pieces of paper exchanging desks, right? 

"Cherish the Minnesota State Fair. Wherever you find beauty and simplicity and truth, know that there is a committee somewhere planning to improve it - don't let them do it."  
- Garrison Keillor

---

From: Aeronca <aeronca...@westmont.edu> on behalf of Jim Chuk <avidfl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 10:11 AM
To: fearless Aeronca Aviators

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

[Jim Chuk]

I called Brackett today, and he said he needs to get one turned out, it's been on the back burner he said.  Took my # and email and said he would contact me when they are available.  There is a new BA- 4106 on barnstormers for $30, it fits most all the other small continental engined planes but ours.  I almost bought it and then called Brackett. JImChuk

[Jim Chuk]

Maybe if more of us want the Brackett air filter, we should call Brackett and ask for them.  If he sees enough of a demand for the product, it will probably happen faster.  Their # is 928-757-4009   Here is a link to their webpage. JImChuk

http://brackettaerofilters.com/

On Saturday, October 20, 2012 at 7:06:26 PM UTC-5, Sam Burke, Aeronca L16a, N6404C, C85 wrote:

[David Polley]

You know bracket will probably never get the STC. Cost and demand.

Field approval much easier

David E Polley

[Scott Johnson]

Second what David said, that’s the route I will be going. It’s usually pretty simple if you get the office involved before you do it. 

Scott

[Paul M. Anton]

I bugged them for over 2 years and got "Pretty soon" as an answer.

 

 

Subject: Re: [f-AA] Brackett Filters

 

I called Brackett today, and he said he needs to get one turned out, it's been on the back burner he said.  Took my # and email and said he would contact me when they are available.  There is a new BA- 4106 on barnstormers for $30, it fits most all the other small continental engined planes but ours.  I almost bought it and then called Brackett. JImChuk

 

[Jim Chuk]

Well they for sure wont try if they don't see the need, that's for sure.  None of their filters fit the Champ or Chief airbox.  Are you saying get a field approval to change out the airbox?  JImChuk

[Sal Capra]

They do have a kit to convert to their filter. You use the old paper filter housing. I don't have the numbers in front of me. If you call and tell them champ / chief they will ship you a kit. 4 nutserts and a grill. 

Just no paperwork. 

Sal Capra

Sent from my iPhone 

[Mark Peterson]

That's what I got in 1995

Sent from my iPhone 

[Doug Rounds]

Make and engine cover that keeps the filter dry or graduate to overnights to indoors. I have done both. That fits the saying--"when you  got time to spare go by air".